Windows Weekly Episode 773 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word.
Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for windows weekly. Paul Thras here. Mary Jo Foley. We're gonna have a great show. First thing they're gonna do is talk me out of buying a new win windows laptop. Yes, indeed. The view becomes a little clearer for meta OS and ads coming to Xbox games. It's not as bad as he sounds all that coming up next on windows, weekly Podcasts you love

TWIT Intro (00:00:26):
From people you trust.

Leo Laporte (00:00:29):
This is TWIT.

Leo Laporte (00:00:35):
This is windows weekly with Paul Thurrott and Mary Jo Foley episode 773 recorded at Wednesday, April 20th, 2022. Smells like Al Canara. This episode of windows weekly is brought to you by trade coffee. Right now, trade is offering new subscribers, a total of $30 off your first order. Plus free shipping. When you go to drink trade.com/windows, that's more than 40 cups of coffee free. Yeah. Get started by taking their quiz and let trade find you a coffee you'll love. And by hacker rank, it's time to reboot your technical interviews with hacker ranks, easy to use tools with a premade question, library, cold playback, and built in whiteboard. You'll be better technical interviews and instantly identifying the right talent. Go to hacker rank.com/ww to start a better tech interview for free today and by new Relic, that next 9:00 PM call is just waiting to happen. Get new Relic before it does, and you can get access to the whole new Relic platform and 100 gigabytes of data per month. Free forever. No credit card required. Sign up a new relic.com/windows. It's time for windows weekly. Yay. Yay. Must be Wednesday dozers, wake up and smell the windows. Huh? It's a faint petroleum tag. Somewhat like a new car. Mary Jo. Foley's here all about microsoft.com. Hello, Mary Jo. Hello? Hello, Paul Theros here. Thera.Com

Leo Laporte (00:02:22):
Nothing. I got nothing. He, he is got nothing

Paul Thurrott (00:02:24):
For me was like, I was this doesn't I'm gonna say this. And it won't be funny cuz it was in my brain. But I

Leo Laporte (00:02:30):
Funny in your brain is not always funny in your mouth.

Paul Thurrott (00:02:33):
I know what you're saying. Well, you're saying it smell like something and I was like, it smells like a gel Canara and then I was like, I love the smell of elk. It doesn't matter.

Leo Laporte (00:02:39):
Gotcha. Canata smells like teen spirit actually, before we get into the meat of the matter, the windows, the Microsoft, the dev, the surface,

Paul Thurrott (00:02:52):
The Xbox. Yeah,

Leo Laporte (00:02:54):
The tips of the week. The code name of the week, the beer of the week T TBA. TBA. I have a question for you too.

Paul Thurrott (00:03:03):
Okay.

Leo Laporte (00:03:04):
Okay. I have finally decided please no celebration that I probably should have a windows computer sitting in front of me cause I have Mac and I have Linux, but I get

Paul Thurrott (00:03:14):
A lot of count down to you installing Lennox on this. What are you talking about? That's a good point. It's gonna be like, oh, I missed the bass or whatever.

Leo Laporte (00:03:26):
I just, I, we get enough calls on the, especially on the radio show about windows things. And I, you know, I just try to channel Paul and Mary Jo, but it'd be easier if I could actually, you know, press. So. So what do you love like these days

Paul Thurrott (00:03:41):
For a windows PC?

Leo Laporte (00:03:42):
Yeah, laptop.

Paul Thurrott (00:03:46):
It's a lot. I, I,

Leo Laporte (00:03:47):
I was looking at the HP spec, you know, specter 360 X, 360.

Paul Thurrott (00:03:54):
Yep. Those are a favor. In fact, that's the one I've been traveling with a lot lately. In

Leo Laporte (00:03:57):
Fact, do you have the 13? 14, the 16

Paul Thurrott (00:03:59):
I 14. I liked the three by two.

Leo Laporte (00:04:01):
Oh it's three by two. Yeah. How's the LA battery life on that?

Paul Thurrott (00:04:06):
I it's fine. I mean, I don't really, it's funny. I don't really think about that too much. It's it's good. I mean, I wouldn't say it's not, it's not 20 hours or whatever Mary would get about three hours. I probably get six or eight. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:04:16):
Mary Jo really thrash. Is it? Cause

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:19):
She, you pad it's rough. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:04:22):
She clicks that GForce hardware acceleration and notepad checkbox. And

Leo Laporte (00:04:25):
It's just, what do you and Sirracha use,

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:28):
I've been using the what's that AMD based

Leo Laporte (00:04:33):
One

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:34):
That Paul gave me. It's an HP spec also. Right. It's

Paul Thurrott (00:04:38):
I wanna say it's an elite. I think it's not

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:40):
Leap might be in a elite book or I specter

Paul Thurrott (00:04:43):
Something.

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:45):
I can't remember now. Yeah. It's got a, a rise in chip in it. Yep. Yep. It's very light. It's very small. Battery. Life's been pretty good. Is

Leo Laporte (00:04:55):
It the, is it the pretty copper one with the beveled corners that no

Mary Jo Foley (00:04:59):
Specter

Leo Laporte (00:04:59):
Not, no, it's just a normal one laptop.

Mary Jo Foley (00:05:01):
It's just a brown. It's a brownish color.

Leo Laporte (00:05:05):
Just zoom, zoom, shaded,

Mary Jo Foley (00:05:06):
Zoom brown. 

Paul Thurrott (00:05:09):
It's an elite fo. No it isn't. I'm trying to think.

Leo Laporte (00:05:11):
Oh, is it the the, the, it's not the folio it's cause that those are pretty neat too.

Paul Thurrott (00:05:17):
You know, one thing you might consider is getting a surface pro just of the whole pen touch, you know, tablet form factor. Yeah. It's kind of the, Okay. I dunno. I mean an X three, an X a specter X 360 would accomplish the same

Leo Laporte (00:05:34):
Thing. They come with pens don't they? Some of them do,

Mary Jo Foley (00:05:37):
No, it would be good if you, if you have people asking you about pen and touch, but I bet you don't have a lot of people asking that. Just saying. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:05:45):
Yeah. What about there are only a handful of them that use 12th generation. I feel like I want 12th generation Intel.

Paul Thurrott (00:05:52):
You know what? So this week I'm gonna publish my first review of a 12th gen product. In fact, I'm glad you brought this up. I meant to put this in the notes and I forgot.

Leo Laporte (00:06:00):
Oh, good. See, I wanted,

Paul Thurrott (00:06:02):
Well, I wanted to throw this out there. In fact, maybe this is an audience participation opportunity. If anyone has used one, obviously the 12th gen is a big deal because they've gone to this hybrid architecture and we know that when they experimented with hybrid architectures in the previous generation, they didn't actually go too well. You know, those things performed poorly on be marks. They didn't get great battery life, cetera, cetera. So when you kind of look at how they rolled this thing out, they actually split the core processor line into more sub products. So there's a 15 wat version's 28. What version is a 56 wa version? And I think it goes from there. I think there's even a higher, whatever it is, something that requires probably not even USB to that's

Leo Laporte (00:06:45):
Actually smart because then if you want performance and you don't care about battery life, you can go

Paul Thurrott (00:06:50):
With the higher PPU. Well, that's, that's what I, that's what I thought as well. But what's interesting is the main, the, the devices that previously would've had a 15 wat U series, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Now have a 28 wat P series, blah,

Leo Laporte (00:07:03):
Whatever.

Paul Thurrott (00:07:04):
Huh. And I'm actually wondering if there isn't some kind of deficiency, oh,

Paul Thurrott (00:07:08):
In this new hybrid architecture. Why is that? Because the machine I've been testing, honestly, hasn't been fantastic performance wise and that something, you know, I think one of the, like continuums of the past forever years, several years at least is most PE most I review a lot of laptops. I get one, I use it, I put all my stuff on it. It works fine. I don't really think anything of it. And this one, I do the same thing I always do. And I put all the stuff on it and I'm like, oh, that's interesting. It's kind of hitching here and there. And it's so I'm actually not sure. I, I, it's a body of evidence of one kind of thing. Like, I don't know. I, that I can make a, a broad statement about this, but I'm, I am it's, I've noticed it enough that I'm wondering,

Leo Laporte (00:07:52):
I guess. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Paul Thurrott (00:07:56):
So I don't mean to, you know, say don't get one cuz I, I don't have enough evidence. But I'm curious now it it's making me want to go and look at what others have experienced. I try not to read reviews, you know?

Leo Laporte (00:08:09):
Yeah. Before

Paul Thurrott (00:08:10):
I do my own thing, but but maybe I have to, I don't know,

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:15):
Kev Kev brewer posted on discord, CD net, I guess just to the best windows like laptops thing. I didn't know they did that, but they were very Dell XPS, Dell XPS, 15, everybody

Leo Laporte (00:08:26):
Elses. And that was last year is the one with that. Nice. Pretty they showed it at CES that

Paul Thurrott (00:08:31):
They have a 17 too now.

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:33):
Oh man. Do they really? Wow.

Paul Thurrott (00:08:35):
I think might have 16 this, a 16 inch spec X, 360. That I'm very interested,

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:40):
Like a small one. I like, I like 13. Twelve's too small. Thirteen's good.

Leo Laporte (00:08:44):
I do like the three by two. The idea of three by two.

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:47):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:08:49):
Yeah, they like the Dells the HP elite dragonfly. Is that what you have that

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:53):
One Paul likes that. Great.

Paul Thurrott (00:08:55):
I do like them, but I just, I wouldn't buy one just because they're so expensive. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:08:59):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:00):
This Lenovo think pad P one and now I'm kind of worried about Lenovo since a hundred Lenovo models have malware potential, you know, if you have to have access to the machine, but there's a U F I problem. And then ACE are swift, which a lot of P people seem to like, huh?

Mary Jo Foley (00:09:18):
I always like HP. I have to say,

Paul Thurrott (00:09:20):
Yeah, I'm kind of coming around. Think's probably my thing overall. Yeah. I, I think I need the think pads should do okay with you obviously I used to love the think pads, but I want something sexier. Yeah. And you know, the nice thing about think pads is just real, really easy to put Linux on.

Mary Jo Foley (00:09:38):
I think that just defeats the purpose you mentioned.

Paul Thurrott (00:09:41):
So I, I, well, by the way, Dell XPS, 13, 15, whatever, those are beautiful, beautiful machines and very easy, very easy because both Dell levels sell Linux versions. Yeah. HP not so easy. My experiences. That's why, I don't know. Maybe proprietary steps you run into driver issues. So I've, I happen to have a couple of HPS and I've had that problem. I've been trying to experiment with Linux and yeah. Some of them just don't like some of the machines I really, really like, like elite book, 10 40 there's no audio, you know, that kind of thing. Wow. That HP elite dragon fly it

Mary Jo Foley (00:10:17):
Expensive.

Paul Thurrott (00:10:18):
It's it could be like 2,800 bucks. It's apple prices.

Mary Jo Foley (00:10:21):
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:10:21):
They're holy beautiful machines. Are they? What makes 'em so nice. They're made out of magnesium and they were originally this kind of cool blue color, although no, I think they have a black option as well. Yeah. it's just, it's basically their elite book, which is their high end commercial PC, but with new materials. So it's lighter. Oh nice. And it's just, it's pretier, it's just a, it's kind of, you know, it kind of using it as a place to experiment with design before it goes mainstream to less expensive machines. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:10:53):
I remember I got one of 'em and I, I really thought that was gonna be my new laptop was disappointed in it

Paul Thurrott (00:10:59):
Really?

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:01):
They said it had some fingerprint repellent coating. My whole thing was covered with fingerprints. Oh. And well

Paul Thurrott (00:11:08):
You gotta stop touching it.

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:09):
Battery life guys. Also a little disappointed.

Paul Thurrott (00:11:14):
Yeah. At some point I think Mary Jo, you have to look in the mirror and ask you,

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:20):
Is that me or them? It is it me?

Paul Thurrott (00:11:22):
It's them? Is it the battery? Or is it

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:25):
It's not me guys. I have the simplest workload of anyone, you know? Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:11:29):
And these days would you get LTE?

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:34):
No,

Paul Thurrott (00:11:35):
No. Cause wifis, everywhere you go, you can share it from your phone so easily. Why that's right. Why bother? You know, it would impact the battery life of the device.

Mary Jo Foley (00:11:43):
Yeah. So many people want it. So many people are like, Nope, I want a dedicated LTE thing for the laptop. I don't wanna share it with my phone. Blah, blah, blah. Okay. I hear from lots, lots of people who want it. I I'm always surprised many

Leo Laporte (00:11:57):
People want it. It's one of those features. Yeah. its adherence are quite aggressively. Sure. Yeah. Proponent like,

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:05):
Oh same. You know, but same thing

Leo Laporte (00:12:07):
If you love it, you know, boy, I'm looking at this I just accidentally eat dragon fly out at $3,700. Yeah. Available June, July 22nd.

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:18):
Yeah. No,

Leo Laporte (00:12:20):
That's a big problem right now. I think in general

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:23):
Industry.

Leo Laporte (00:12:23):
Yep. You cannot. And I think it's gonna get worse because of Shanghai's shutdown, Qantas shut down. They make a lot of these. 

Paul Thurrott (00:12:31):
That's nice. Cuz we just got past this and I know what the hell my graphics cards again, what

Leo Laporte (00:12:36):
The, what the, they do have some in stock, but you have to, you have to get an I five and 16 gigs and right.

Paul Thurrott (00:12:43):
Whatever

Leo Laporte (00:12:43):
They have him. Yeah. But they are a lot

Paul Thurrott (00:12:44):
Cheaper. Well this is just for the show though. Why bother getting anything? You're

Leo Laporte (00:12:47):
Right. I don't need I, what am I talking? I'm not gonna gaming on the thing.

Paul Thurrott (00:12:52):
Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:12:52):
Right.

Leo Laporte (00:12:53):
I maybe I should just, yeah. What you're saying is in some ways get what other people are getting a normal

Paul Thurrott (00:12:58):
Pavilion 

Leo Laporte (00:12:59):
Era. No, I won't do

Paul Thurrott (00:13:00):
That. No, no. This is a nice little, just make sure you get it with back lighting. Oddly. That's not a

Leo Laporte (00:13:05):
HP elite dragon five G two windows, 10 pro. This must be then the little dusty in the back of the shelves there. 11Th generation I five 16 gigs. Five, 12 storage five. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:17):
Sounds good. How much?

Leo Laporte (00:13:18):
That's 1839. That one's not a killer.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:22):
I mean, it's still, you know, that machine non dragonfly would be about 1100 bucks. Right? I mean there's a big,

Leo Laporte (00:13:29):
You're paying for the, the look.

Paul Thurrott (00:13:32):
Yeah. I would look at the spectra X 360 similar. I bet it be not half, but it would be less than two third set

Leo Laporte (00:13:37):
Price. What's the difference between the drag and fly and the specter?

Paul Thurrott (00:13:41):
Well, one's a consumer brand one a oh,

Leo Laporte (00:13:42):
I get it. Commercial brand. It's a business brand. I get

Paul Thurrott (00:13:45):
It. Doesn't have that three year warranty, whatever the big warranty is. And it doesn't have all the management tools, the security built stuff built in, but honestly that's better. You don't want all the commercial

Leo Laporte (00:13:53):
Stuff on. Yeah, no I don't. I don't want vPro. I mean, I love vPro

Paul Thurrott (00:13:57):
And you might like the styling of the specter, but honestly it's a little more aggressive looking. It's kind of a fun, you know, it's fun little machines.

Leo Laporte (00:14:03):
Okay. So if I don't put more memory in it, if I just take his 16 good these days with windows. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:14:11):
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:14:12):
Problem. Oh yeah. Four selfish.

Paul Thurrott (00:14:17):
Well, no one will ever need more than 16 gigs around. I

Leo Laporte (00:14:19):
Think you're right. I think you're right.

Mary Jo Foley (00:14:21):
Said that. Who said that though?

Leo Laporte (00:14:23):
Bill gates never said it. He never said, but he's blamed for it. Yeah. Should I get the whack em pen? No,

Paul Thurrott (00:14:32):
I don't. I would never use it personally.

Leo Laporte (00:14:33):
Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:14:34):
Same. But

Leo Laporte (00:14:36):
Wow. It's expensive,

Paul Thurrott (00:14:38):
But you can. What now? What are you looking at now?

Leo Laporte (00:14:41):
I'm seeing if I can get one that ships sooner. 

Paul Thurrott (00:14:46):
Oh, you want to know?

Leo Laporte (00:14:47):
Oh, well, yeah. I mean, what would be the point of buying if I can get

Paul Thurrott (00:14:49):
In the alley? What do you got there in the truck?

Leo Laporte (00:14:51):
Hey, Hey, well fill off the truck these days. Hey D huh? Huh? I do want 11. I don't want 10, although it's easy to go to 11, right? Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:15:05):
Honestly going from 10 to 11 might be good just for talking to people on the radio.

Leo Laporte (00:15:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. True. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing, knowing the pain that they're suffering,

Paul Thurrott (00:15:18):
Hopefully there's not too much pain, but

Mary Jo Foley (00:15:20):
I know if it is I'm surprised.

Leo Laporte (00:15:24):
Yeah. I have a, I have I've owned Dell PS for years. I and I actually had a very nice Spectre, 360. I loved, I thought it was just so pretty.

Paul Thurrott (00:15:32):
Yeah. So I hate giving those back. They'll let me I think it was a 15. It must have been a 15. I love that thing.

Leo Laporte (00:15:38):
Well, thank you for letting me hijack the, the show. Yeah. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming windows, windows, windows. Yeah. What's the latest with windows?

Paul Thurrott (00:15:55):
Well, there was a, a report granted from a company I've never heard of. So immediately I wrote about

Leo Laporte (00:16:01):
This cause I thought how interesting these cause is this cuz Microsoft doesn't say so these analysts have to, you know, read the TV.

Paul Thurrott (00:16:07):
Yeah. So this is actually a company called land sweeper, which is you selling a product that will do software. I overall a network, right? So it's a, it's a designed for companies. But they basically surveyed, by the way, I will say the survey is 10 million windows devices. So it's not a hundred or, you know, we remember that Google thing from a few weeks ago, 23 people. Yeah. This is 10 million windows devices. And what they found was that 1.4, 4% of them were windows 11, which is, this is funny to me. If you look at their stats is lower than the number running windows X, P windows seven. Mm. Both of which are unsupported and windows eight, whatever they say, windows eight, I assume it's windows eight X. Obviously windows 10 is 80% of all of the computers, but the, and oh, I should also say small. This is a tiny caveat, but they also include, this is windows devices. So it's also windows servers on networks. But windows servers take in less than 10% overall. So I mean, you could, you could argue that, that skews it a little bit, but single digit use share for windows 11 windows eight windows, seven windows XP and, and then sub single digit usage for windows Vista and windows 2000 somehow are out there in the world, which is just the saddest thing I've ever heard. I imagine

Leo Laporte (00:17:27):
What

Paul Thurrott (00:17:27):
Those things

Leo Laporte (00:17:27):
Are doing,

Paul Thurrott (00:17:29):
But yeah. So, you know, this came on the heels of Microsofts windows 11 is ready for business event. Remember, you know, a couple weeks ago which is just kind of a patently absurd statement. Although I, I, I suppose if you look at windows 11 as basically a windows 10 feature pack, is that the right word? Feature update? Sorry. yeah. I mean, I, I don't know, you know, we D this, I guess.

Mary Jo Foley (00:17:57):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:17:59):
So anyway, there are obviously people who look at this and they go, yeah, I don't, I don't know about this, you know, I mean it's, and that's understandable, but yeah, there's, this is not, I, I guess I always look at intent, you know, and their intent is to sell businesses on a product that they make, that measures what you're using on your network, asset management, et cetera, et cetera. They, they, they don't look good if they say windows 11 is not being adopted quickly, if it is, you know, so it seems like, I mean, these are probably almost certainly all business computers, I guess. They don't actually say that, but yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:18:35):
It's, that's the thing I, when I saw this, I'm like, okay, these numbers gotta have got to be business computing devices. Right? Yeah. And then when you dig into the footnotes, it's like the surveys based on companies who are using devices, land sweeper in 2020. Okay. So that's no home devices, right? Like that's all business devices. I don't know. The whole thing just to me was like, I, I don't think that windows Eleven's been going gangbusters. I, I was guessing it might be 20% of devices and like even a business. Yeah. I would, I would guess like vast, vast majority is windows 10, but no, maybe not 20% in business, but we don't, we don't know the number because Microsoft won't say, but the, the whole, these surveys, I don't know. I just more and more, I just ignore them because you're like, okay, what's this, company's vested interest in doing this survey. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:19:26):
Right. You're look, you're looking at same, but right. What, what's the intent? Yeah. So I guess I, I, I thought this was interesting mostly because we have this consumer data from ad duplex and, and that comes outta your month. It's typically based on a survey of several thousand windows computers, they're, those are mostly consumer devices. And again, they don't say that, and there's no way to actually know that, but they're, you know, they're looking at store apps essentially to try to determine what for versions of OSS, et cetera, et cetera. So like Mary Jo said, we, we don't, we're never gonna get a hard, or we haven't to date gotten a hard number. So we, all we can do is look at this kind of thing. You know, I used to always use net market. What was that company called? Net market share or net market something.

Paul Thurrott (00:20:08):
Yeah, because Microsoft told me a millionaires ago, they were the ones that had them, us reliable, you know, browser usage data, right. Say compared like stack counter, but now they're outta business. Basically they, at some point found that there was some inherent problem with their algorithm and they were never able to fix it or whatever was. And so it's like, well, I guess we're gonna use stack counter. Now that thing that Microsoft said, wasn't good, you know, or whatever. So you have to, you know, you know, this a, a company called canals that comes up with all this usage market share data. And I don't know who these people are, but I use IDC and Gartner very typically for that kind of stuff. In fact, I heard a story about that today, which we'll get to you know, I, who do you trust? You know, I don't know, know, I, I think the, as a, I don't, I wanna say journalist as a blogger or reporter, whatever you wanna say, you're a journalist, don't knock yourself, man. Yeah. Okay. As a human being, and you're gonna write this story, I'll just say report Colin. And that will kind of cover me on that end. It's it's not an assertion I'm making, but I do think it's interesting. Yeah. And I think we would all agree generally, whatever the exact number is, when is 11 is really not

Mary Jo Foley (00:21:12):
So far

Paul Thurrott (00:21:12):
The world on fire. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:21:14):
Yeah, no. Yeah. And you know, part of it is because as somebody's saying here in the chat room, Robert ha has saying people are still working from home a lot. Right. And when that happens, you're kind of risk adverse. If you're a company to suddenly say, Hey, let's move everybody to windows 11 and they're not here in the office. Right.

Paul Thurrott (00:21:35):
So by the that's gonna go their house. Yeah. That's terrible. That is absolutely true. But I'm gonna say, you know, businesses are risk averse period. Like

Mary Jo Foley (00:21:44):
They,

Paul Thurrott (00:21:44):
I don't know that businesses, businesses have never raced full or into, you know, two adopt any version of windows. One exception. We talked about windows eight. Yes. But that was a timing

Mary Jo Foley (00:21:54):
And getting off windows eight, anybody who crazily did go to windows eight immediately

Paul Thurrott (00:22:00):
Exit. Yeah. So that situation does not exist today. Right. If you wanna stay windows 10, that's a fine decision. It makes sense. Does reason not to it's a much better world than it was say when windows seven was coming out at windows 10.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:14):
Yep.

Paul Thurrott (00:22:14):
Yeah, for sure. Yep.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:16):
Hmm.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:17):
The number there that like really kind of made me say this surveys bogus was okay. How many people are still running windows X P. And if it's that big in your survey, who are the people you're survey,

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:28):
Right.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:30):
Because yeah, there are, there are people still using XP, but there're,

Paul Thurrott (00:22:33):
I still see, I still see seven a lot out in the world. Right. I do too.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:38):
Go to America. I see seven a lot.

Paul Thurrott (00:22:39):
Yeah. My dentist, you

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:40):
Know, right. Medical offices,

Paul Thurrott (00:22:42):
People, the, I paying, they are not paying Microsoft for extra support. I know they're They

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:48):
Don't even no. And the extra ends next year.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:51):
Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Right.

Mary Jo Foley (00:22:56):
Windows 10. It support until 20, 25. Like why, if you're a business, would you say let's, let's put everybody on 11. Right,

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:03):
Right,

Paul Thurrott (00:23:04):
Right. Well, this is always Microsoft's goal, you know, they, you don't need the service path. We got this, you know, do I'll tell you what if I could right. Click on the task bar I'll and do some stuff. I'll I'll I'll upgrade then. How does

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:18):
That you'll come around?

Paul Thurrott (00:23:20):
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe let me move the task bar around. Like it's a big boy OS and then you we'll tell. Anyway, I thought, I thought this was interesting. I agree. I don't know who these people are. I'm not, do they say what their methodology is anyway?

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:36):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:23:36):
It's involves crayons and

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:39):
It involves their software, their own software from managing assets. So that's what they are running it, what device,

Leo Laporte (00:23:46):
But that's gonna skew it. That's gonna heavily skew it.

Paul Thurrott (00:23:49):
Everything's gonna, you know. Yeah. Right.

Leo Laporte (00:23:51):
Unless you're actually going to retailers and asking them and stuff like that. But even though,

Mary Jo Foley (00:23:55):
Oh, no, this doesn't even like touch PC at retail as far as I can tell.

Leo Laporte (00:23:59):
No, it's just, it's just business. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:24:01):
So the one thing I, I just I'll just throw this out as kind of a weird fact is something I've noticed over the years and I've confronted again recently, which is you could look at the number of computers that were sold in a year, the 300 million, whatever the figure is. And then you could look at what Microsoft said that one year, about how windows sold and it's like 240 million, like, huh?

Mary Jo Foley (00:24:19):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:24:20):
Okay. So what went out on those other people? What are these,

Leo Laporte (00:24:24):
Right?

Mary Jo Foley (00:24:25):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:24:25):
And some, some of it is deferrals. You know, Microsoft, especially during the windows, seven days had a way of deferring sales so that it always was 20 million every month, you know, 20 million every month. Sometimes when a new version of windows is coming out and they offer like an upgrade deal, they'll defer then. And it kind of skews the numbers and all that kinda stuff. But there's always this whole of tens of th tens of millions of computers every year that aren't really accounted for in what Microsoft says happened. And it makes you kind of wonder where they like, what's the, what are the, I know they didn't go out with nothing. I know they didn't go out with Linux. What, you know, and I think in some cases they don't wanna talk about it cuz it might be older version of the OS. It's probably the most likely scenario. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So this is all we can do. We can just kind of see what data's there and Put an asterisk at the end of it and say, this is what we're talking about.

Leo Laporte (00:25:16):
It's something it's a data point. Not necessarily. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:19):
Not a good one. Good.

Leo Laporte (00:25:21):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:25:22):
Not a fact. I mean, I don't know if you're looking for facts, you're in the, why are you

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:27):
Guys talking about facts?

Leo Laporte (00:25:29):
Hey, speaking of which I am stunned at this second item. I thought Microsoft got rid of SMB. One like years ago. It's still there. Isn't it insecure?

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:40):
Yes, it is. It, they got rid of it in windows 10 years ago.

Leo Laporte (00:25:44):
Oh this is for what? Seven? What is this for?

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:46):
11

Leo Laporte (00:25:48):
It's in 11. Yes. Wait a minute. What?

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:51):
I know it doesn't really, I I'm like, wait, you got rid of it in 10, but how is it still in windows 11?

Leo Laporte (00:25:56):
That's weird.

Mary Jo Foley (00:25:58):
So they've gotten rid of it in all versions of 11, except for some reason windows 11 home dev channel. And yesterday they announced, okay, we finally get rid of it there.

Leo Laporte (00:26:10):
Huh? Huh?

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:12):
So they said there is, oh sorry. The quote is, there is no addition of windows 11 insider. Not, not all windows 11. That has any part of SMB. One,

Paul Thurrott (00:26:21):
If you ought to be, you bought a PC today with windows 11 home. It would in fact have SMB one and it would.

Leo Laporte (00:26:27):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:27):
But now it, I presumably what is it? 22 H two will not.

Leo Laporte (00:26:31):
Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:26:31):
Right. They said the next major version will not have it. But because Microsoft is so intent on backwards compatibility and making sure people have what they need as a business, they said, if you really need it, we're gonna have an out ofAnd installation kit. So you can add it back in.

Paul Thurrott (00:26:50):
Which is crazy. I mean, I look I'm maybe there are exceptions, but if you yeah, are just a normal human being and you find right. Something breaks when this SMB one support goes away, whatever broke, stop you using that thing. Exactly.

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:04):
Or,

Paul Thurrott (00:27:04):
Or look at, you know, make sure you can update it to SMB, you know, three, I guess we're on there, whatever it's

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:09):
Right. So right. There's a, there's more advanced versions of SMB that you could be using obviously than one, which is 30 years old, by the way. But they said this, this out of band pack is for people who are still need it. Things like medical gear. Yeah. There's factory machinery. Yeah. That stuff. Right. It's not for people, but it is at home as an individual.

Paul Thurrott (00:27:30):
Yeah. So maybe you have like an old NAS or something. Right. It's probably running some embedded Lennox or something. It, it has to be some SMB crossover, whatever. Yeah. If you can't go past SMB one, you've gotta stop using that thing. It's not Stop using it. I mean upgrade or whatever, but look at the software, make sure you see if you can, in fact, you know, use whatever, make the minimum SMB two or three or whatever, is there?

Mary Jo Foley (00:27:56):
Yeah. It's a security risk. It's out of date. It's not good

Leo Laporte (00:28:00):
Speed. It would only be. It is. I think you nailed it. It's like for x-ray machines, there it happen. Can never be updated or whatever they have to use SMB one or

Paul Thurrott (00:28:08):
Something. Okay. By the way, using an x-ray machine. Here's an idea. Yeah. Don't upgrade the windows

Leo Laporte (00:28:12):
Letter. Yeah. Just

Paul Thurrott (00:28:13):
Throw it up. Well, no,

Leo Laporte (00:28:14):
It's it's for, it's probably for a machine that needs to communicate with the x-ray machine. Oh, I see the x-ray machine's probably running windows 95.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:22):
It's probably it could be running next to or something. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:28:25):
But yeah. Mixed. If you have a machine that you want to communicate using SMB. Okay. With some hardware.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:32):
Yeah. Cause SMB became a SMB was a Microsoft thing. Right. That's not

Leo Laporte (00:28:35):
An open it's land manager. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:28:37):
But it had to it just what's it called something message. Block system

Mary Jo Foley (00:28:41):
Secure manage

Leo Laporte (00:28:42):
Block. Yeah. Yeah. It was a terrible secure

Paul Thurrott (00:28:43):
Message block. But server with these other server thinking to, to interact with these other systems, running Unix or Linux or whatever, eventually I don't think backward, you know,

Leo Laporte (00:28:54):
Figure there's this there's somethings called Samba, which is an SMB Samba. That's

Paul Thurrott (00:28:58):
Right.

Leo Laporte (00:28:58):
There you go. SMB. so

Paul Thurrott (00:29:00):
That probably supports various versions of SMB and I in the beginning. I'm sure it was just SMB one. Sure. That was how it started.

Leo Laporte (00:29:08):
Yeah. I think some was long ago. Oh no, you can still configure. It's been long ago disabled, but if you had to, if you had to on Linux, you could turn it on. If you had to it's it is disabled by default. I wonder if that's the same thing at Microsoft that it's disabled by default, but it's in there. If you, if you needed a, it shouldn't be on by default. But in fact, I think we were talking about SMB issues yesterday and security now. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (00:29:41):
Hey, we were just talking about the good all day. See it wasn't always

Leo Laporte (00:29:43):
30

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:44):
Years ago. 30.

Leo Laporte (00:29:45):
Is it really that? Oh my gosh.

Mary Jo Foley (00:29:48):
Yeah. It's 30 years old. You're

Leo Laporte (00:29:49):
Using

Paul Thurrott (00:29:49):
Windows gent 4.0 service pack three. Yes. You may need to enable SMB one.

Leo Laporte (00:29:55):
M goodness. Golly. Gosh. Yep. Yep. So windows 10 21 H two is here. Wait a minute. This is, what year is this? Okay. Nevermind. Is, did you left? Is this leftover from

Paul Thurrott (00:30:15):
No. So you know, the way Microsoft does rollouts, right? So they make it available in the beginning. They release it to more and more computers.

Leo Laporte (00:30:21):
Now everybody's got it past

Paul Thurrott (00:30:23):
That milestone where there are no blockers left. So right. If you're on windows. Well I guess technically there'll always be some blockers for some computers, but it is as broadly deployable as it ever will be. I guess

Leo Laporte (00:30:35):
Maybe there you go. I like that. Yep.

Mary Jo Foley (00:30:37):
Yep.

Leo Laporte (00:30:39):
It's as huge news. I'm

Paul Thurrott (00:30:40):
Surprised we didn't do that one first.

Leo Laporte (00:30:42):
It's like

Mary Jo Foley (00:30:43):
Almost six months, right? Almost six months from when they released it. We now,

Paul Thurrott (00:30:47):
Hey, might have released the witness 10. No one cares about is now available to everybody.

Mary Jo Foley (00:30:51):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:30:52):
It's funny. We haven't talked about like 22 H one and all of that. There

Mary Jo Foley (00:30:57):
Is no 22 H one.

Leo Laporte (00:30:59):
Oh yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:30:59):
Nothing. So remember they moved to an annual release cycle for windows 11 and 10, which I was thank God. Right. And I think that's why right. Although I, we have mentioned every once in a while, this notion of you're you want to test windows 10, you wanna stay on that. You're in the insider program. And I think, I don't know if this has changed. Maybe someone else will remember, but for a time, the only way you could do that was to be in a release preview on a machine that didn't make the hardware requirements for windows 11. And then you would just be getting the updates for windows 10. I think that was the, the kind of fallback like you, if you said explicitly, this is what I want to test. I'm gonna be running windows 10 for the next three years, whatever. I just want to test windows 10 in the insider program. I don't know if I don't know if that's a available yet. I'm I assume it will be again at some point, but I could be wrong. I certainly have not looked into

Leo Laporte (00:31:50):
It.

Mary Jo Foley (00:31:51):
I'm trying to look. I asked Microsoft just to double check this, but I'm like, what, what did they tell me? There's so many

Leo Laporte (00:31:57):
Emails.

Paul Thurrott (00:31:58):
I mean, at some point they're gonna have to wind up 22 H two for windows 10. Right. And they they're gonna and let people, Well, maybe they don't have to, but I assume they're going to let people

Leo Laporte (00:32:09):
Have to is such a broad term. Yeah. I, it, you

Paul Thurrott (00:32:12):
Must, they're gonna have to behave logically.

Leo Laporte (00:32:14):
Oh, right. You must.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:17):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:32:21):
Okay. Indeed, indeed. As they say, what else you're moving, you're whipping right through this thing. So on Tuesday we reported with glee that max sales was up, was up, was up by a significant amount in the first quarter that in the face of PC overall PC sales falling by a significant amount, this is

Paul Thurrott (00:32:48):
So the reason max sales were up and not PC sales is because apple doesn't sell Chromebooks.

Leo Laporte (00:32:54):
Oh.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:55):
It turns out that

Leo Laporte (00:32:56):
It was Chromebooks.

Paul Thurrott (00:32:58):
If that, if no one sold Chromebooks, PC sales, actually would've gone up almost 4%.

Mary Jo Foley (00:33:04):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:33:05):
Wow.

Paul Thurrott (00:33:05):
So yeah, that's pretty, that's according to, I should say Gardner IDC just says education and consumer, which, you know, education plus consumer equals Chromebook in my mind. But they say that demand for commercial PCs is still strong and that things will rebound. But anyway, yeah. So overall, you know, because we include Chromebooks because they're sort of like computers and this is average between IDC and Gardner cuz that's the way I do things. Overall they fell 6% and you know, the PC makers that saw a lot of Chromebooks like Lenovo and HP experienced actually double digit unit sale losses year over year, largely because of Chromebooks. And then Dell, apple and Asus did not, right. Dell was up 6%. Apple was up 6.5%. And Aus was up actually 19% somehow. But you know, the overall pitchy doesn't change, you know, Lenovo's the biggest PC maker by far HP's number two. And Dell is number three.

Mary Jo Foley (00:34:11):
And the main reason the numbers are down is because the prior year comparables are so high, right. Like that's the main going on here, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:34:20):
Yeah. So we don't always get that kind of COVID pandemic thing to fall back on. Right. And unfortunately, you know, it's like comparing console sales a year after the console launch. It's like, wait, the prior year, you know, comparables were really high. You know, the prior year comparables were really high across the board, not just PCs, but backs and Chromebooks as well. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:34:40):
So since the pandemic, you know, like we can't say the pandemic has ended or is even slowing I guess, but the certainly the way where you react to it is slowing. Yeah. You know, Chromebooks in particular were like, yeah. Okay. I, I think there was a point in time last year and maybe the year before that where people would like Leah was just looking at computers. Right. I think people needed computers and they had this list of things they wanted, they went down the list and then they got down to position eight and they were like, you know what? I just get a Chromebook. They need to get something done here, whatever it is, they were gonna take whatever they could get. And that's no longer the case. So great.

Leo Laporte (00:35:20):
Yep. So guys, you know,

Mary Jo Foley (00:35:22):
Consumers, heavy side,

Paul Thurrott (00:35:24):
Go out to best buy, buy a computer, you know, help, help the market.

Leo Laporte (00:35:30):
Let's take a break cuz I want to I'm I'm actually that deep SI.

Mary Jo Foley (00:35:35):
Yes,

Leo Laporte (00:35:36):
It was me smelling the coffee baby.

Paul Thurrott (00:35:38):
Oh, did you smell it? Oh, which version is it? Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:35:42):
This is I should open this up. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:35:46):
I was gonna say you gotta

Leo Laporte (00:35:46):
Open that up. This is so I should, this is a sponsor we should mention. This is an ad ladies and gentlemen for a company that is doing something I think is for anybody who loves a really cool idea. I really like our local coffee roaster, but there's coffee roasters now all over the country, doing amazing, delicious things. And you know, just like we talk with craft beer where you want to try a beer from Brooklyn or somewhere else, that's what trade does connect you to the freshest, best tasting coffee by partnering with the best craft roasters in the country. They come, these are independent, small towns, big cities. They come directly to you from the roaster trade customers make a big difference by the way, for these roasters, cuz no, they don't have a big audience. So the be ability for them to wow, you know, see people from all over the country, ordering their coffee, trade coffee sends you freshly roasted beans from 60 of the country's best craft roasters.

Leo Laporte (00:36:50):
This morning, I had a bean from Milwaukee. It was incredible. Incredible. It was it was unwashed. It was like all the, these things that they do that was really cool. And these are all small businesses who pay farmers fair prices to sustainably source the best beans from around the world. So by the way, you don't have to be a coffee snob. But if, if you like good coffee and you know, when coffee's really good trade is a definitely the way to go trade the, by the way, we, I love it when I should show you cuz I already opened it. But when the red trade bag comes in the mail, I know, oh I got a new and you got some right, Mary Jo, I got a new bag. I did a coffee freshly roasted. This is called this is by the way, we only, I only get the whole bean.

Leo Laporte (00:37:35):
Now, by the way, when you go to trade to, to sign for this drink, trade.com/windows, you can go through a whole questionnaire about your tastes. You know, how, what, what, what flavors you like and that kind of thing. So they're gonna send you stuff that you like, cuz everybody's a little bit different. So you answer some questions, you get your personalized variety of coffees. They're delivered fresh to you and not, you know, autumn, as often as you want, you get to set the, the schedule you get, you know, I know these are freshly roasted. In fact, it's funny. I'll go to my mailbox. You know, we have one of those rural boxes. We go to the, and I can smell the coffee outside the mailbox. I know there's there's coffee in there. My poor mailman trade delivers a bag of freshly roasted coffee. You can get whole beans or ground, whatever you brew home.

Leo Laporte (00:38:20):
I always get whole beans. Cause I like to grind. 'em Fresh and they guarantee if you don't love your first order, they'll replace it for free. So this is my, I just opened my new trade bag. I'll be having tomorrow morning. This comes from a little roaster in Spicewood, Texas covet coffee handcrafted in the fine city oil at Austin. I guess spice was a suburb of Austin. It says Austin on here, direct trade, whole being coffee, a covet coffee. Isn't a job. It's a passion. Since 1998, we've become known for roasting exceptional, ethically sourced, sustainable coffee. So trade is going around finding these great coffee roasters and then connecting 'em to you. And this doesn't say trade on it. I mean, this is really that's. What's cool about this. They've delivered now over 5 million bags of fresh coffee, 750,000 positive reviews. You'll see at the site, if you go to drink, trade.com/windows, what did you get? Mary Jo do you know?

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:22):
I got I actually finally got something from Brooklyn. I let them kind of pick based on my tastes and stuff and nice. They sent me Joe's coffee. Isn't that funny?

Leo Laporte (00:39:31):
Which is,

Mary Jo Foley (00:39:32):
Did you know? It's good though, because I knew of it, but I've never had oh neat. Cause there's a lot of roasters here in, in New York. Yeah. And it's very good. I have to say

Leo Laporte (00:39:41):
I like, I like really like that idea of just like with the craft beers cause craft brew roasters, and they're all different by the way. Just so you know this coffee was roasted on the seventh. So a couple it's very fresh, couple weeks old. They say best use by 2023. I'll be using it by 7:00 AM. Oh, let me open it up. Oh, look at that. Oh wow. Very nice. I'm very excited. So trade is offering new subscribers, a total of $30 off your first order and free shipping. So basically you're gonna get 40 cups for free drink trade T R a D e.com/windows. More than 40 cups of coffee free get started by taking the quiz, do take the quiz cuz everybody has different tastes and we took the quiz and this is, this is what we gotten. I just I'm. I'm thrilled.

Leo Laporte (00:40:36):
I'm we've had a number of different now roasters, take the quiz, drink, trade.com/windows. Let trade find a coffee. You'll love at drink. Trade.Com/Windows $30 off. Sometimes you don't wanna take the time to brew it. You just wanna eat the beans right outta the backs. By the way, one thing I'd add is if you prefer espresso a lot of that can be blended for espresso. Yes. or ground for espresso. So if you want to ground they'll ground it for a coffee, like a maker or an espresso maker. Did you, is that what you got? You got the espresso. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cause I drink espresso in the morning and actually if you're a real Conis so you know, doing this with the AeroPress, really gonna taste it. Emporium, covet, coffee, medium house blend. Thank you. Trade you all. Get going to drink.

Leo Laporte (00:41:29):
Trade.Com/Windows. Thank you so much for supporting these two coffee drinkers right here and see here's a whole thing on oh, I see why we put the order in April 6th. That's why this was roasted the next day after we, after we put in the order. So we've had this for a while before I, so this was fresh roasted actually I think my second one is on the way. Yeah. Milk chocolate, brown sugar and citrus flavors. Oh, by the way, these ahead of the curve rust cans, hemp oil code brew. Cold brew. Okay. Good to know. Good to know. They have a little QR code with a coffee, coffee brewing step by step. This is nice. This is nice. I'm I'm excited. I love coffee. It's like getting it's like Christmas every day. Drink, trade.com/windows. All right. Back to the show we go. Although thank you for having, letting me have a little coffee break, so to speak. What is Microsoft purview and is it, does it have anything to do with Sorachi?

Mary Jo Foley (00:42:32):
I wish it did. It'd be interesting actually. It's

Leo Laporte (00:42:36):
Not a, it's not a cat driven windows.

Mary Jo Foley (00:42:38):
It is not P U R R view. It only has one R yeah. So you know, we've been talking about Microsoft rebranding, a lot of stuff in the past couple years, they've been rebranding it both as Microsoft instead of the pro name and then putting a whole bunch of things in a family and saying they're all part of a single family. So last year they announced this thing called Azure purview, which was some data governance platform that they introduced yesterday. They decided, oh no, we're not gonna call it this Azure purview. We're gonna call it Microsoft purview. And we're gonna take all of the Microsoft 365 compliance products that we already have in market that are branded as office 365, Microsoft 365. And we're gonna rebrand those as purview tubes. So they, they have got now got like 12 products, all Microsoft purview, something like Microsoft pur purview compliance manager, Microsoft purview, data maps. Right. it

Leo Laporte (00:43:38):
Is under my purview.

Mary Jo Foley (00:43:41):
Yes. Yeah. So you know, this sounds like who cares, right? Yeah. Right. But then if you're a partner, you're a customer, you're an analyst firm. You're anyone who's made brochures already using the, these product names. You have any kind of documentation using these product names, that's in your title or your LinkedIn profile. You now have to go in and change all of these because this becomes effective immediately. And this is the new set of names. Hmm. So now we've got like a ton of things that Microsoft branded purview a of things branded defender, as we've talked about on the show a few times, like there's so many products named defender that have something to do with security. There's another Microsoft brand called Preva, which is all kinds of things with PR that are privacy related that are in a suite now for Microsoft. One of my friends joked, he said the, the one thing that all the purview products have in common is you need an E E E five license to use them. I'm like, yeah, that might be what the common bond is here. I don't know.

Leo Laporte (00:44:43):
E five is a government re 

Mary Jo Foley (00:44:46):
No, it's the, it's like the most expensive of all the Microsoft cloud subscriptions.

Leo Laporte (00:44:51):
Okay. Oh yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:44:52):
So he is like, joking. Like if you need these kind of things, you're gonna be paying a lot of money already for your subscription. It's not for normal people. Right. It's for business customers. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:45:02):
All right. Yeah. So purview, right.

Mary Jo Foley (00:45:04):
That's all you need to know if you hear the word purview, P U R V I E though, you it's compliance and data governance. That's all you need. It's nothing related to cats. Sadly. Sadly.

Leo Laporte (00:45:16):
How did, does Sorachi have a unique per outta curiosity?

Mary Jo Foley (00:45:20):
He has a very loud one. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:45:23):
Each of our cats is a distinctive per and I realize do they? Yeah. Yeah. I guess you hear, when you hear the two together, you can tell, really tell mark. Yeah. I'm just, just curious if every cat's per is unique. I think it might be so their mama, their mama knows who who's there. It

Mary Jo Foley (00:45:37):
Could be.

Paul Thurrott (00:45:38):
My cats have unique Quas. He's sitting in the house. One of them's just upstairs by herself. And you just say, they have no idea,

Leo Laporte (00:45:48):
Steve glancingly referred to this, but I think it's an important story. Michael is upping the payouts for their bug bounty

Paul Thurrott (00:45:56):
Program. I feel like everyone's kind of doing this right. Didn't apple announce something like

Leo Laporte (00:45:58):
Apple did at Google to,

Paul Thurrott (00:46:01):
And it's just basically you know, so Microsoft has bug bounty programs for a lot of its you know, major products and they they're increasing their Microsoft 365 bounty program. And they're lesser known dynamics 365 and power platform, bonding programs,

Mary Jo Foley (00:46:17):
Lesser known what

Paul Thurrott (00:46:19):
That was. I love that you required. That was totally for you up by 30%. That's,

Mary Jo Foley (00:46:28):
I'm predictable, nothing

Paul Thurrott (00:46:30):
Else. What? $26,000 us D per confirmed bug, I guess we'll call it. I've lost track of your reaction. Say what This is. They did something similar for Azure last October Uber. And I think if you can find Azure bugs, you're looking at up to $60,000.

Leo Laporte (00:46:58):
Hmm.

Paul Thurrott (00:46:59):
So, you know, being a white hat pays off.

Leo Laporte (00:47:02):
Yep. Yeah. Well, that's the whole idea is you want to get these guys giving you the bugs, not some high paying,

Paul Thurrott (00:47:07):
Selling them on, you

Leo Laporte (00:47:09):
Know, independent nation states, dark web. Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (00:47:11):
Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (00:47:12):
Exactly.

Leo Laporte (00:47:13):
Actually there's a, we talk about this all the time. There are a couple of companies that are very sketch that will pay lots of money and then sell it on to a, to a nation state.

Paul Thurrott (00:47:22):
Oh, geez. Yeah. Oh,

Leo Laporte (00:47:23):
That's amazing. There's I mean, you can, I mean, some of these bugs millions, right. They're worth millions. So for a long time, apple said, we're not gonna have a bug bounty program. And they realized you have to,

Paul Thurrott (00:47:33):
You have to, especially the mobile stuff that apple does. My God, it's such a vector.

Leo Laporte (00:47:37):
You have to. Yeah. because I think they didn't want to run up the price, but the problem is these, you know, erodium and you know, all of these companies that pay for bug bugs, you know, some of them are good and we'll give 'em to the company. And some of them are not, I can't remember, which is which, so I won't name names.

Mary Jo Foley (00:47:58):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:47:59):
All right. So we have made an executive decision here at the network.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:04):
Oh boy.

Leo Laporte (00:48:04):
At a big editorial meeting round table, all of the head honchos he's coming up every week. Build build. Will we do build? I finally decided, yeah. I don't think we're gonna stream the build keynote. Yeah. Mistake.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:18):
I was curious. Right. I don't think so.

Mary Jo Foley (00:48:22):
Think about,

Paul Thurrott (00:48:23):
I mean,

Leo Laporte (00:48:24):
Think about your it's retractable

Paul Thurrott (00:48:25):
And no, it's, what's important to your audience versus what's important. The Microsoft off,

Leo Laporte (00:48:30):
I figure we a hardware event, we would do it for sure.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:33):
Or if it was a plan events of some kind, if Microsoft was gonna talk about,

Mary Jo Foley (00:48:37):
You can guess one of the things they're gonna talk about, which I think the audience might care about, which is metaverse right. They're gonna talk about that.

Leo Laporte (00:48:43):
Yeah. They did. Last time they did that whole, they're gonna do it again. Burning man.

Paul Thurrott (00:48:47):
They're gonna talk about the burning, the burning, the boring part of the metaverse.

Leo Laporte (00:48:51):
It'll be, enterprisey not consumer, right.

Mary Jo Foley (00:48:54):
Well, they'll talk about, they'll talk about the mesh for team stuff, right? So the idea of having avatars that can interact in a shared space. They're gonna talk more about that from a developer perspective, for sure. Yeah. That's definitely on the list, right?

Paul Thurrott (00:49:07):
I think you need to hold off for build 20, 24 when the avatars are up legs.

Leo Laporte (00:49:12):
All

Mary Jo Foley (00:49:12):
Right. It's a long way off. I don't know.

Leo Laporte (00:49:14):
Even Facebook's avatars don't have legs. Let's not go crazy here. Actually, we were talking about this Mac break weekly and the Alex's contention was there's gonna be a horrific uncanny valley issue. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. If it, if they try to make it look like humans, so in every respect they're showing Microsoft showing 'em kind of gray out or, you know, so that it's very clear that it's not, or it's cartoony or there's no legs or all of the above. Yeah. So

Paul Thurrott (00:49:43):
Years ago, this is probably still there. I just don't travel outta Boston, but in Logan, airport, terminal, sea, where jet blue is, there's a, a, a cut cut out. It's not cardboard, but it's metal or something. It's a cutout in the shape of a woman. And they project a video of a woman onto it talking.

Leo Laporte (00:49:59):
Yeah. And

Paul Thurrott (00:49:59):
I used to always walk by it and kind of go, Ugh, you know, and, and, and that's the, the effect they could very easily do. I think about all these things they've done for teams, meetings, where you look like you're in the stands or you're doing what it is. They could have little avatar bodies in your face. Kind of, I

Leo Laporte (00:50:16):
Think there is some concern. This might freak people out. It'd be so

Paul Thurrott (00:50:20):
Awful.

Leo Laporte (00:50:21):
I think that's a reasonable concern. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:50:24):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:50:24):
Nobody wants that. No, nobody want that.

Mary Jo Foley (00:50:27):
No, no.

Paul Thurrott (00:50:29):
You should know. It would be terrible.

Leo Laporte (00:50:30):
So, so I mean, that would explain why nobody's making any effort to make this more human, more, more realistic.

Paul Thurrott (00:50:36):
But my God, there's a lot of effort just making this happen for some reason. And I still don't understand.

Leo Laporte (00:50:41):
Oh yeah. That, did you read the article of it in the verge? Was it Matt Harris? 10? My Facebook meta is spending $10 billion a year with 18,000 engineers working on this. Sure. This metaverse thing. That's like I mean, it's insane,

Paul Thurrott (00:50:59):
Including a lot of ex Microsoft executives and engineers, by the way. 

Leo Laporte (00:51:04):
Did they leave because HoloLens is not getting the, they felt

Paul Thurrott (00:51:07):
Well, they left because someone was throwing a lot of money in their face. Right. And hard to say, I hate Facebook. I hate Facebook. How much money? Yeah. I love meta. Yeah. I

Leo Laporte (00:51:15):
Love

Paul Thurrott (00:51:15):
Suddenly,

Leo Laporte (00:51:16):
You

Paul Thurrott (00:51:16):
Know? Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:51:19):
Yeah. I know. Yeah. So, you know, metaverse will be big if your, if your, if your audience cares about that and wants to hear what might Microsoft is. Doing's, especially for developers, that's, that's

Paul Thurrott (00:51:30):
Pretty much gonna be it don't you think

Mary Jo Foley (00:51:32):
It no, no Framework,

Paul Thurrott (00:51:37):
Right? No, it meant interesting stuff. I mean, like,

Mary Jo Foley (00:51:40):
I think fluid and fluid and loop would be very interesting

Leo Laporte (00:51:43):
It's for developers. So to the extent we have windows developers in our audience, they would it, but they're gonna watch it anyway.

Mary Jo Foley (00:51:49):
Cloud developers also, and cross platform developers, because Microsoft, as we've lamented before build is not really a window show anymore. No, it's for everything almost, but windows. Right. It's like, how can you develop cross platform? How can you develop for the cloud? It's not really, like, there's usually some windows content, but very, very little compared to all the other stuff. So yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:52:12):
Yep. Yeah. That's the way it's gone. I mean, the first build was mostly windows, you know, or at least top windows. Yep. It was I think windows eight was the first build.

Mary Jo Foley (00:52:23):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (00:52:23):
I believe anyway. I don't know. It's just the way the works, I

Mary Jo Foley (00:52:26):
Think. Yeah. If you wanna show anything from build, obviously just the first keynote, I don't think anything else will be stuff you

Paul Thurrott (00:52:34):
Would care about, but cover it live, I think would be a tough call because however long that thing is, is only gonna be these little chunks, like the meta thing, if that you care about that the, like you said, loop and fluid framework. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. And, and I know, I think there's some teams to, that might be of interest to Microsoft 65 more generally, but it's just not it's. This is not Google IO for the typical tech enthusiast is gonna be a much more interesting show. WWDC for the typical tech enthusiast is gonna be a much more interesting show. Right. It's just based on the past,

Mary Jo Foley (00:53:09):
Based on how it's been. Yeah. Period.

Paul Thurrott (00:53:11):
I'll just send it right there. Just, just based on the, you know, as long back as you can remember.

Mary Jo Foley (00:53:16):
Right. Right so we don't, we can't really give you too much guidance yet because the build registration's not even live. And there was a quick blip of the session catalog that showed up. Thanks to the walking cat. We saw a couple of sessions, but then they blocked it now. So you can't see anything that's there.

Paul Thurrott (00:53:32):
Oh, okay. And, and that stuff was not particularly interesting. Right. So Microsoft teams, apps, and office and outlook,

Mary Jo Foley (00:53:38):
Right? Yep.

Paul Thurrott (00:53:40):
Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:53:41):
So a little power platform metaverse

Paul Thurrott (00:53:43):
Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (00:53:43):
Power

Paul Thurrott (00:53:45):
That's of interest, for sure.

Mary Jo Foley (00:53:46):
It is. I think there'll be some power platforms news and, and related stuff. But yeah, I'll have a little more to say on this during my tip of the week,

Paul Thurrott (00:53:57):
So, no. Okay. Oh, did I take that away from you? I'm sorry.

Leo Laporte (00:54:00):
You can't take, take that away. You, you did not from her. Oh,

Mary Jo Foley (00:54:04):
Good. You did not

Paul Thurrott (00:54:06):
The way you, well, good. You're RO

Leo Laporte (00:54:10):
Net do net seven, preview three.net. Maui. RC.

Paul Thurrott (00:54:15):
Yeah. Speaking of developer stuff and build. Yeah. Microsoft is always rev the.net platform. Now that's one of the neat things that has changed in recent years. And they're working on do net seven, which will ship in the November, most likely dot net seven, reach preview three status. If you want to work against.net seven, preview three, you have to, I think you have to use a preview version of visual studio, but that's no big deal. The bigger news to me though, is this.net Maui release, which you have been talking about. What two years, three years, it's been a long time coming. It was originally supposed to ship last November, along with.net six, but they needed more time. So now it's gonna ship next month with, I think it built if I'm not mistaken and it is now released the release candidate milestone. And by the way, release candidate, I love that the

Mary Jo Foley (00:55:07):
Use of term

Leo Laporte (00:55:08):
It's a release candidate.

Mary Jo Foley (00:55:09):
Yes.

Paul Thurrott (00:55:10):
Thank you. This part of the company gets it. The truth

Leo Laporte (00:55:13):
Comes

Paul Thurrott (00:55:13):
Out. Yeah. It is a release candidate. That means it's

Leo Laporte (00:55:17):
Practically a gold master.

Mary Jo Foley (00:55:19):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:55:19):
And

Paul Thurrott (00:55:19):
The thought net world once you reach a release candidate, Microsoft will actually support any code. You write again that in production. So this thing is treated as if it were generally available and Todd, at my way, for those of you, haven't heard me talk about it. Incessantly, cuz I'm really interested in this is Microsoft's replacement for zoomin forums. It's the new multi-platform SDK that allows you to write apps against windows, Mac, which is new Android and iOS. And there's some integration dot net blazer or just blazer, I guess which allows you to also bring in work. You might have done for web apps into these products. So it's not really, you can't target web apps with this, but if you have web app code that you already wrote for blazer, you can integrate that into.net. My way apps. Somehow I've not actually looked at this recently. I back when I thought this was coming out last November, I had looked at this probably a year ago was probably the last time, but this is something I'm gonna start start on pretty soon. So that's exciting.

Leo Laporte (00:56:17):
I don't know about web apps, but I do like B bibe,

Mary Jo Foley (00:56:22):
Same thing. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:56:27):
I think actually probably a lot of developers like B, B, B. So you know, it all works out quite well. I only have that on my mind cuz we're having Korean for lunch today and I can smell the barber. I

Mary Jo Foley (00:56:39):
Figured, I figured

Leo Laporte (00:56:40):
You had that feeling, did you? No. Yeah. You knew you did did

Mary Jo Foley (00:56:43):
After Indian last week. I'm like they're, it's like

Leo Laporte (00:56:46):
They're doing a worldwide thing. Yeah. Nice.

Mary Jo Foley (00:56:48):
That's nice.

Leo Laporte (00:56:50):
It is interesting. Isn't it?

Paul Thurrott (00:56:52):
April is Asia month of TWIT.

Leo Laporte (00:56:55):
I'm just glad that there are enough people in the office to actually, you know, have our Wednesday lunches and yeah. You know, it's nice to do a little of socialization and

Paul Thurrott (00:57:04):
All that. And I'm just glad that it's my wife's turned to drive to get sushi cuz I am really not in the mood to do that.

Leo Laporte (00:57:08):
Oh man. Your pictures of sushi. Kill me every time.

Mary Jo Foley (00:57:12):
I know. They're so good.

Leo Laporte (00:57:13):
If you don't follow Paul's Instagram. Well don't, if you're trying to lose weight or you, you know, you get, I mean I'm so it's

Paul Thurrott (00:57:19):
Food and alcohol in the occasional dog picture.

Leo Laporte (00:57:22):
It feels like you go to the outdoor for breakfast, you have sushi for lunch and then you just drink for dinner. It seems like that's.

Paul Thurrott (00:57:29):
Yeah. And then it's the next day it comes and it's and

Leo Laporte (00:57:31):
It's the next day.

Paul Thurrott (00:57:34):
Yeah. It's it's not like that every day. I don't, I don't take pictures of the truly boring things that we normally no,

Leo Laporte (00:57:41):
I know. You're you're one of those influence that's giving us all FOMO.

Paul Thurrott (00:57:47):
Yeah. Those 55 year old men that are out on the

Paul Thurrott (00:57:50):
Instagram.

Leo Laporte (00:57:52):
I know Paul goes out there. He's twerking. He's posing in front of the river. He's doing all this stuff. I know. I know the

Mary Jo Foley (00:57:59):
Truth. No wait till you guys go to Alaska, there'll be pictures.

Leo Laporte (00:58:02):
I can't, you know what? I'm gonna take the pictures. You just wait. I we're gonna document every inch of that. That reminds me. I should mention that we are we have some openings, cruise.TWIT.tv. We're going to Alaska, July 16th through the 23rd on Holland. America's Ms. UAM. Very nice ship. Very nice cruise line are still some very low priced inside cabins. There are some random cabins still available. And this is gonna be a lot of fun. It's Lisa and I are, are being joined by this fellow right here. Paul Thra is white. Stephanie, we're gonna have cocktails every day.

Paul Thurrott (00:58:41):
That's

Leo Laporte (00:58:41):
It's gonna be so much fun

Paul Thurrott (00:58:43):
Is absolutely gonna be the case. Yes,

Leo Laporte (00:58:46):
That's gonna be. And I think rich Campbell is coming and it's gonna be, it's gonna be, Rafael's gonna come. So I Rivera. So I think it's gonna be kind of a windowy kind of thing. So that's why I'm mentioning it first here on the windows weekly.

Paul Thurrott (00:58:57):
Hopefully the window's open cuz it's gonna be some puking too.

Leo Laporte (00:59:00):
No, no, no, no, no, no. It's very, I have been on this cruise. It is smooth. In fact, you, it's kind of amazing when you're sailing the bay by the glaciers. I can't remember its name, but you're going by, oh boy. And it's so quiet and the water's like a mirror and it's still, it's in, it's really an awesome experience. Cruise dot TWITt TV, our TWIT crews, there are a hundred folks already joining us. But as I said I think they, as COVID has abated, they've opened up some more cabins. So that's really good news. We're really happy about that. Cruise.TWIT.tv. We would love to have you join us and we're gonna do a bunch of events and think Lisa's wants to do some photo walks and some of the excursions. So every evening I think we're gonna have before dinner, we'll, we'll all get together in the lounge and, and shoot the breeze and that kind of stuff.

Leo Laporte (00:59:51):
So it's gonna be a lot of, a lot of fun. We will. I say that because I once went on a cruise with the giants after they won the Penant in 1989 and they stayed in the cabin for whole time. You just everybody's going wear the giants. We're on the giants, cruise wear the giants. And I got the brunt of it because I was the at K N B. I was the giants fan club guy. And so I, I had to entertain people. They didn't want what? Yeah, they just were. They, they wanted to go on a cruise for free, but they didn't wanna meet people. I do remember I've told this story before. I do remember I'm in the hot tub and Kevin Mitchell, big guy gets in the hot tub. All the water goes out. There's nothing. He's like, it's like, he's huge.

Leo Laporte (01:00:32):
You don't really see when he is down on the field little player, you don't really get a sense of some of these guys. They are very, very big. Anyway. It was a lot of fun. Boz says I took the same cruise last summer. It's very cool. It is. It's fun. Lisa's got her sexy snowsuit with a fur she's she's already yeah. Yeah. She went to Patagonia and I said, get, you know, she was gonna get something from like Shean. And I said, Don, you know, don't get a $25 snowsuit. You get a good one, get a good one. So she went to she went to Patagonia. So she's gonna be all dressed. I don't think it's gonna be that cold as summertime.

Paul Thurrott (01:01:10):
I'm just wondering about

Leo Laporte (01:01:10):
That. Yeah. No, I don't think so. Well, I'll find out we'll well, we have to, we have to coordinate. I think there will be ice cubes. I'm not saying that for the cocktails. I

Paul Thurrott (01:01:19):
Understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. I gotta chip them off the glacier. That would be one of the, we'll be we'll do our part

Leo Laporte (01:01:26):
Environment. There is nothing more beautiful and pure than glacial ice.

Paul Thurrott (01:01:29):
Yeah, see. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:01:31):
But it it's probably not Seattle, right? Yeah. Probably not a good idea.

Paul Thurrott (01:01:36):
An Amis man, chopped off and rest of the glacier in Alaska this morning trying to get ice. Are you guys,

Mary Jo Foley (01:01:41):
Are you guys leaving, leaving out?

Leo Laporte (01:01:44):
That's gonna be really fun too. We're gonna go few days early. Cause I, I wanted to Seattle, the, I love the, I don't know what they call it anymore. The experie Paul Allen's music experience, experience

Mary Jo Foley (01:01:56):
Music

Leo Laporte (01:01:56):
Experience project. Incredible in incredible. One of the best rock and roll museums I've ever seen. It's just incredible. Oh yeah. So Bo who was there last summer said wonderful weather, warm and clear. Oh, very unusual. Oh great. I remember it was, it was cool, but not cold. When, when we went there, I went up there with my dad and his son and my son a couple years ago, it was a chess cruise. It was a lot of fun. Oh, here he comes. Oh, here comes Sorachi. Well, as long as SRAs there, maybe I better talk about our sponsor. Hacker rank people know hacker rank. It's a great place to go. Both for developers and people looking to hire developers for people, looking for jobs are 18 million developers on hacker rank who are practicing. And I'm, I'm one of them all. I'm not looking for a job, but the coding tests are great practice.

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Paul Thurrott (01:05:47):
I will not do that, but I will tell

Leo Laporte (01:05:49):
You

Paul Thurrott (01:05:54):
Well, I, I, I, you could make a good case for a surface pro I

Leo Laporte (01:05:57):
Possibly, and I'm looking at this specter and it's HP has too many skews. This is a real that's problem. I can't, I don't know is this last year's model? This year's. Yep. Is it, you know, it's just to, so

Paul Thurrott (01:06:10):
The way it's confus. Hell yeah. So on the specter actually on most of it right now, there's still 11th gen. So 11th would be the most recent version I specter. Yeah. Although they announced that CS, right? So anytime now there should be 12 gen inspectors and maybe

Leo Laporte (01:06:24):
That's what we wait for. I don't know. I'm gonna wait for your review.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:28):
I don't think I'm betraying any confidence is to say, if you could hold off for a month you should have some news.

Leo Laporte (01:06:32):
Well, I might have to anyway.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:34):
Yeah, no, there you go. That's true.

Leo Laporte (01:06:35):
That's true.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:36):
Well, you don't wanna order an 11 Jen and, you know, get the 12th gen announced soon,

Leo Laporte (01:06:41):
So right. It's right. All right. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:44):
But with regards to surface, so

Leo Laporte (01:06:46):
Does Microsoft to have 12th gen surface? No,

Paul Thurrott (01:06:49):
No, no. They,

Leo Laporte (01:06:51):
No.

Paul Thurrott (01:06:51):
Okay. No, they haven't announced anything yet this year. So no, it takes

Leo Laporte (01:06:55):
A while after Intel starts shipping these to make a system with 'em, is that it? Or they wanna sell the 11th out or

Paul Thurrott (01:07:03):
They did things differently with the 12th gen. They, they are staging it. Ah, and actually AMD is follow suit. I don't know if you noticed state, there was an AMD rising, a 6,000 series, something, something they, I don't know what they're doing, but with this move to this hybrid, a with the mobile core chip sets, which they've announced, well, they didn't really announce which the first PCs were announced at CS. And then over the past few months, they've announced different levels of these things. I, I mentioned earlier, they were 15, 28, 56 wat versions of the chips, different computers, cetera. I, I, I, I don't know. I think maybe part of it is them trying to make the big deal out of this one. Maybe it is a big deal, you know, I'm really sure, but right. It's, it's been done differently. This is, this is a first, it's never been like this, but Microsoft is usually not on leading edge the last time they were, they got in a little bit of trouble. You might remember service gate. So Microsoft announced a bunch of new service Peter's last fall. So I would expect a surface laptop this year and maybe that will have 12th gen and whatever the latest AMD rising is, I would hope so, but we don't know they're not out yet. And they haven't been announced.

Leo Laporte (01:08:11):
So maybe this isn't the best time to buy a laptop. Maybe this would be good time.

Paul Thurrott (01:08:15):
Well, but you're, again, you're doing this for the show.

Leo Laporte (01:08:17):
I don't, so I shouldn't buy this

Paul Thurrott (01:08:20):
Fancy. You're sweating this.

Leo Laporte (01:08:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Get something that they would get some piece of crap that a normal piece I should go to Costco and pick up something. Just some,

Paul Thurrott (01:08:30):
You actually should actually get

Leo Laporte (01:08:31):
A real, the experience unlike you, Paul.

Paul Thurrott (01:08:35):
I, no, that's a good option by the way, Costco will take that thing three years from now when you don't that

Leo Laporte (01:08:40):
They'll take it back. No, they're good. They'll take it right back and maybe I'll do that because it'll be last year's model, but it'll be the kind of thing that people call

Paul Thurrott (01:08:46):
Radio current. I mean that, it's not gonna, it's not like you're buying a commod or 64. They'll have something decent

Mary Jo Foley (01:08:53):
SMB one if

Leo Laporte (01:08:54):
They have, or

Paul Thurrott (01:08:56):
With SMB one. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the SMB one table's over here. It's next to the it's next to our iPod table. You like,

Mary Jo Foley (01:09:04):
Can

Leo Laporte (01:09:05):
I interest you in a zoom? Yeah. So there is some so we were talking about the surface laptop studio.

Paul Thurrott (01:09:13):
Yes. So this is the replacement surface for book. This was a product that was new from last and whatever that was October, September,

Leo Laporte (01:09:20):
That last event then. Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:09:21):
Yeah, yeah. It's a cool look at machine. But earlier this month, Microsoft had that windows 11 event, which was really a hybrid work event. And among the many new features they announced was something called voice clarity. So this is a windows 11 specific feature it's designed to help suppress unwelcome noise in your environment and make video and audio calls clearer. But of course in typical Michael cha fashion, they never really explained anything beyond that. Like when we're gonna get it, how we're gonna get it, where it might show up. And so actually it is, it has just showed up. If you have the surface laptop studio only, there's a set of April 20, 22 updates that just went out this week. And one of the features it brings on if you're on windows 11, which I think the machine might have shipped with windows 11.

Paul Thurrott (01:10:02):
So I guess he would be is voice clarity, right? So this is a windows 11 feature, but it's now enabled on surface laptop studio. So the way Microsoft describes it is this feature intelligently integrates signals from multiple microphones, all on the PC to extend a listing range of surface lap studio uses advanced processing capabilities to help two-way dialogue flow more naturally just like an in-person conversation. Microsoft is obsessed with making virtual conversations or meetings as normal as possible. And I don't think we're ever gonna get there, but this is a step in that direction. So if you're lucky enough to have one of these machines update it. Yeah. It's probably, it should work with everything. I guess it works with Skype teams. Xbox app should basically work with anything that uses audio video. So

Leo Laporte (01:10:54):
Have you tested it? Does it sound better?

Paul Thurrott (01:10:55):
No, I don't have one, so I can't test it

Leo Laporte (01:10:58):
Now. I know what to get a surface laptop studio.

Paul Thurrott (01:11:01):
Yeah. Again, I, you know, maybe I,

Mary Jo Foley (01:11:07):
I like, I like Mary overkill overkill for what you want.

Leo Laporte (01:11:10):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Mary Jo Foley (01:11:13):
I'm also, as you guys know a little down on surface, cuz my experience has not been great with laptop three.

Paul Thurrott (01:11:19):
You know, you, you let a little UN reliability get in the way I, I sent back nine Xbox 360 from that red ring I'm telling you, wow. Still use Xbox love. Xbox

Leo Laporte (01:11:30):
Dedicated. Yeah. Dedicat

Mary Jo Foley (01:11:33):
No, I, I still like the laptop three, but as you guys have seen it overheats, especially when there's a cat on it and yep. It's not the fault of the laptop, more the cat, but also I had the motherboard failure and that cost me 400 bucks because my machine was one month outta warranty when that happened. So yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:11:51):
Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (01:11:52):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:11:54):
Hmm.

Mary Jo Foley (01:11:54):
I never had a PC have that problem. That's why I'm a little,

Leo Laporte (01:11:58):
I have to admit my surface studio never really worked right. Took 'em at two years or something to get the updates, to fix the problems. So maybe, maybe a surface. Isn't the best thing for me, which too bad. It should be the best windows machines out there.

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:13):
They should be, right? Yes, they should be. I don't get it. I agree. I

Leo Laporte (01:12:17):
Just don't get it.

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:19):
I know. They aren't, they're not, they don't have the history of these other OEMs. That's making

Leo Laporte (01:12:24):
Pcs. That's the problem. They're just new to it. Yeah. Right.

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:27):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:12:28):
Yep. Would you get the oh, surface pro? I don't know the surface studios kind of fun looking

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:34):
The pro if, if the keyboard's not great. I know there are people like the keyboard.

Leo Laporte (01:12:39):
I don't like the detachable keyboard. No, no, I

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:41):
Agree. It's very bouncy and hard to type on. Yeah. It depends how much typing you're gonna do. I feel.

Leo Laporte (01:12:47):
Yeah. All right. I think it's

Paul Thurrott (01:12:48):
It's okay. I, I would, yeah. I, I mean, I would gravitate more towards service laptop personally.

Mary Jo Foley (01:12:53):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:12:54):
Or I had a surface laptop. I'm thinking the,

Paul Thurrott (01:12:57):
The studio's expensive. I mean, I think that what's the base price of a studio it's

Leo Laporte (01:13:00):
Close to 1599 with an I five 16 gigs of Ram 256 gig SSD. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:05):
That's

Leo Laporte (01:13:05):
A lot of money. So you're gonna get with one you're gonna get is at least 2000. Yeah. Although that has a GForce

Paul Thurrott (01:13:12):
I that's pretty, that's not bad,

Leo Laporte (01:13:14):
Eh, bad. I seven 16 gigs, five 12 SSD G4, RS,

Paul Thurrott (01:13:20):
The graphics. Like I, I think a, a laptop would do it.

Leo Laporte (01:13:23):
It's gonna kill the kill the battery life.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:26):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:13:27):
So, yeah. So if you don't get a, if you get an I five 16 gigs or Ram five, 12 gig SSD and Intels, Iris G P aren't bad, that's 1800 bucks. That's not bad.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:39):
All he needs to do is display markdown. You know, I don't

Leo Laporte (01:13:42):
Care about that. I just need my markdown. You're getting to be like Mary Jo. All right. Let's let's, let's get through this Xbox segment here. So Mary Jo Foley can get back to beer. You pick a beer and Paul will tell us about gaming.

Paul Thurrott (01:13:59):
So we are now in the second half of April, somehow this month is racing by and Microsoft has thus revealed the second selection of games that they're bringing to Xbox game pass this month. It is heavy on the UAF game, which, which is kind of fun. Which makes sense, cuz well it doesn't make sense. It does matter. Anyway, there it is heavy on, I guess it doesn't make sense. I dunno why I said that. I, you know, again, I, I always, I, I look at this list every 15 days and it's like, yeah, need for speed. High pursuit, remastered seven ways to die research industry. That's a good name. I don't know. So nothing, nothing huge there. Although I think 12 new cloud enabled games, the sport touch controls and mobile devices think is always kind of fun. Hit men, trilogy lawn mowing simulator. So when you need to mobile the lawn, when you're commuting to work that need for speed, hot pursuit, remaster game. I just mentioned. And transformer. Did

Leo Laporte (01:14:57):
You ever play lawn mower simulator?

Paul Thurrott (01:14:59):
I did not. I don't. It would be kind of fun. I haven't mowed a lawn since I moved here and I, my plan is to never, ever do that again. You

Leo Laporte (01:15:08):
Still will PTSD, huh? Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:15:10):
Yeah, no, I just,

Leo Laporte (01:15:12):
No, but it's a riding mower. I mean, it's not, you know

Paul Thurrott (01:15:15):
It, yes. Yeah. And it would be a one here too in real life. But I can't, I just can't. I just don't know. I would do a train simulator. That's interesting.

Leo Laporte (01:15:22):
That would be fun. Yeah. Be an ER, when I was typically run, we moved to the country. I of course immediately bought a riding mower. Yeah. And realize it not as much fun as

Paul Thurrott (01:15:34):
It looks. No they have, they have riding mowers that you can stand on now. They look like

Leo Laporte (01:15:39):
Snows. Those are cool. They actually use those here in the 

Paul Thurrott (01:15:42):
Office

Leo Laporte (01:15:42):
Park. Yeah. The guys it's kind of cool. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:15:45):
I see the way people drive around here. So I'm, I'm unclear why they think they could get on one of these things and drive around my lawn, but you know, it's okay.

Leo Laporte (01:15:54):
This is nerve wracking ads coming. Ads are gonna be everywhere. Netflix is just announced. They're gonna put ads in Netflix.

Paul Thurrott (01:16:03):
Thank God. I was, I was thinking the one thing they were missing. Yeah. They said games. I was like, no, not games. They said ads like yes, ads.

Leo Laporte (01:16:09):
They need ads in our Xbox, but these are free to play Xbox games.

Paul Thurrott (01:16:13):
These are free to play games. Yeah. So they're, these are gonna be kind of like minority report looking ads, the way they described it. They'll be like, like if you're in a sports arena, there'll be like ads on the, you know, in the outfield and stuff like that. I mean, you can kind of imagine what that might. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:16:24):
I don't mind that at all.

Paul Thurrott (01:16:26):
Yeah. I, yeah. I mean, of course, of course I think the interest only thing about this story that was interesting to me. I was like, they don't already do this. Huh. It seems like such an obvious thing. They put ads in windows 11. They don't think anything of that, but they've got this thing where ads actually make some sense free to play games. Yeah, sure.

Leo Laporte (01:16:44):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:16:45):
Yeah. But again, you know, as any, anything that's free that has ads. My answer is always the same. Just gimme an option to pay for it and not have right. You know, just make, make it enough. Yep. So we'll see where they go, but you know, so we're

Leo Laporte (01:16:58):
Talking Roblox or Fortnite,

Paul Thurrott (01:17:01):
Right? Fortnight yeah. Stuff like that. Yep. Rocket

Leo Laporte (01:17:03):
We,

Paul Thurrott (01:17:04):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:17:06):
So

Paul Thurrott (01:17:06):
Go ahead. I gotta ask Mary Jo, she knows. Have you ever heard of this person, his name is Chris Novak?

Mary Jo Foley (01:17:13):
No. I saw all the stories and I'm like, who is this guy?

Paul Thurrott (01:17:16):
I had the same reaction. I, I wrote to Lauren this morning. I said, I'm gonna write about this story. But first I have to figure out who this person is.

Leo Laporte (01:17:22):
You're breaking his heart, man. The guy's been there 20 years.

Paul Thurrott (01:17:25):
I know. So he, he,

Mary Jo Foley (01:17:27):
You would think we might have heard of him, right? Not

Leo Laporte (01:17:29):
Everyone. It's just breaking this guy's heart.

Paul Thurrott (01:17:31):
He's like the gay ball of Xbox. So head of Xbox research and design since 2016, he's been there for 20 years. So 20 years, as long as Xbox has been a thing, basically I think he came on like shortly after the team was formed. He has worked there for that 20 years. I don't know who he is and he's leaving.

Leo Laporte (01:17:52):
Aw,

Paul Thurrott (01:17:52):
Dunno what to tell you. I know, but so his most recent work, the thing he led the user experience design on the most recent Xbox consoles Xbox game pass, Xbox live and Xbox club gaming. So you've seen his work,

Leo Laporte (01:18:10):
But

Paul Thurrott (01:18:11):
I don't know. I've never, I have never heard of this person. And I, that to me is somebody interesting because I

Leo Laporte (01:18:17):
Feel tail down. Cause it's really no,

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:20):
Come on. It's a little, I know a little graphic. I know. Yeah. Sorry,

Paul Thurrott (01:18:25):
Just sweat your finger and guarantee you this will

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:27):
Table. I'm like, I'm like he, as soon as the Xbox segment comes on, he is like, what?

Leo Laporte (01:18:34):
Showing

Paul Thurrott (01:18:35):
Me his back. No, I know what that means. I know what that means.

Leo Laporte (01:18:38):
Flicking

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:38):
His pale.

Leo Laporte (01:18:39):
So it's interesting because apparently Sorachi has picked up on Mary Jo's antipathy towards he has the Xbox, right.

Paul Thurrott (01:18:47):
Or the, the animal has PTSD when here's my voice.

Leo Laporte (01:18:51):
It could just be you.

Mary Jo Foley (01:18:52):
That could be, it could just, I, I think I'm just blaming Paul. It just makes more sense.

Leo Laporte (01:18:58):
It's just you. I don't

Paul Thurrott (01:18:59):
Know what it is.

Mary Jo Foley (01:19:00):
I dunno. Sorry. He had his butt in the air. I'm like, no.

Leo Laporte (01:19:04):
Yeah. Cats will

Mary Jo Foley (01:19:05):
Do. It's a family show. Cats. Cats will do. It's a family show and you

Leo Laporte (01:19:08):
Know, cat owners are kind of used to the whole thing. In fact, Ugh.

Mary Jo Foley (01:19:12):
I always try to press them down if you see me.

Leo Laporte (01:19:14):
Yeah. Yeah. It's cute. No, it's right. If

Paul Thurrott (01:19:16):
You would imagine sitting, sitting on the couch for two hours and in that two hours, one of our cats will sit at the floor on the floor, look at me and will not come on the couch, like a vampire, unless I invite it. And then she stays for a little while she prayers and then she leaves and she can in a two hour span, she will do that seven times. Yeah. And by the fifth or seven time, I'm like, just get,

Mary Jo Foley (01:19:37):
Are they

Leo Laporte (01:19:37):
Cats kinda nuts, honestly.

Mary Jo Foley (01:19:40):
Yeah. You know, they're

Leo Laporte (01:19:41):
They want to be, it's like, they want to be near us, but they don't, whatever. They don't want you to think. They want to be near you. Exactly.

Paul Thurrott (01:19:47):
That's exactly right. No, that's the joke. We're always like, I mean, I guess if you invited me, I mean, I might wanna come. I honestly, I'm in here for some other reason, you know? But you,

Leo Laporte (01:19:57):
But what are you doing here? I

Paul Thurrott (01:19:58):
It's important to you. I guess I maybe,

Leo Laporte (01:20:01):
You know, bitches, like, I

Paul Thurrott (01:20:03):
Don't care if you're on the couch, just stop staring at me.

Mary Jo Foley (01:20:06):
No. And the more they know that you don't want 'em to do something, that's what they're gonna do. Right.

Leo Laporte (01:20:10):
They're dastardly. I just, I really, I mean, honestly, the brain is the size of a Walnut. It can't be that sophisticated.

Paul Thurrott (01:20:18):
You're being generously. Oh, it's not even that big it's

Leo Laporte (01:20:21):
And yet they really, maybe we are just imbuing them with things. They real there's something going on. It feels like there's an elaborate something going on. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:20:32):
At all. Yeah. No, this is like the little Billy and the family circus. Like the cat will come in the rum instead of making a B line for the couch. It will go with this weird circle around the edges of the rum goes behind. The couch comes around the front. It's like, you couldn't have picked a longer path to get to where you want to go. You

Leo Laporte (01:20:48):
Could, he couldn't have little,

Mary Jo Foley (01:20:50):
But it's the most annoying path. That's the key.

Leo Laporte (01:20:54):
He's little Billy cats, cats

Paul Thurrott (01:20:57):
By bill tat the dog. They jump up where the dog's head is. Yeah. Just to surprise her and scare her, you know?

Leo Laporte (01:21:02):
Yeah. but cat lover her. That's why we love him. Mary Joe's one. Lisa is another, this is how I know our, we have a doormat in front of our house. This is if you don't like cats go away. Wow. Yeah. So that's, I think that's kind of hostile, but 

Paul Thurrott (01:21:19):
When the cats, when the cats throw, I'm gonna have 'em stuffed, but with their claw out and I can just like sleeping the circle uses like a throw rug, a throw pillow. And then when I'm done with em, you get, stick it on the side of the couch with a little

Leo Laporte (01:21:30):
Claw, you know? That's good. Yeah. That's good. No, we love em. I love em. But I just, I don't understand them. I don't pretend to understand them annoying. I dunno if knowing's quite the right word. You live in close quarters with one. So yes

Mary Jo Foley (01:21:47):
I do. That

Leo Laporte (01:21:47):
Makes, that probably makes some more, more, more.

Paul Thurrott (01:21:49):
I walk by the dog's water, the cat drinking the dog's water. I say the same thing every time. That's the dog's water. Cat does not care. Doesn't

Leo Laporte (01:21:57):
Care.

Paul Thurrott (01:21:58):
No does not care. The cat wants every water in the house that is not her water.

Leo Laporte (01:22:01):
It's a great new Yorker, cartoon, cat, and dog sitting in a bar dogs saying to the cat. That's the difference between you and me? You won't eat my food, but I'll eat your food. Yeah. Right. All right. Let's take a little break. We have the back of the book coming up. We've got, oh wait. There's one more thing. Oh, one more thing. Hold,

Paul Thurrott (01:22:23):
Hold on. Not a huge deal. Not a huge deal. It's like sort of semi-related Microsoft sometime in the past 30, days-ish agreed with the UK competition and markets authority to be clearer about when auto renew subscriptions are gonna auto renew. Right. This is like one of those obvious things, cuz we've all gone through this. In fact, I've literally gone through this recently with Microsoft also with Bloomberg and also with HBO max. Anyway, now they're gonna allow them or now these Microsoft has agreed. They're not gonna do that anymore. They're gonna really push to let people know that these things are gonna renew and good now Sony and Nintendo would follow in their footstep. Good. And they are also going to change their auto renew practices. Yeah. I just, that's only in the UK, but this needs to be

Leo Laporte (01:23:08):
Probably cuz of a trade law in the UK. They're probably required to, I just got an $899 bill from GoDaddy renewing certificate. We don't need or use yikes. So, and it cuz it's autorenew and they don't, you know, I mean

Paul Thurrott (01:23:21):
Sure. I canceled my Bloombergs of prescription in January and have been bill for it every single month since then. So I, I went through that little process that

Leo Laporte (01:23:29):
A lot of fun. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:23:30):
No it's not no. And yeah. It's it's not good. Yep. Not

Leo Laporte (01:23:36):
Good. Now may I may I talk about sorry,

Paul Thurrott (01:23:40):
Whatever you were doing this fine. No. Back

Leo Laporte (01:23:42):
Back To the most important part of the show, our fine advertisers, actually our show today brought to you by and I think, you know the name, new relic.com/windows. If you're a software engineer, you've been there middle of the night, you're sleeping

Leo Laporte (01:24:01):
Cats all curled up next to you. You get the the beeper goes off to people. I guess they don't use beepers anymore. Your alarm, something goes off and suddenly something's broken you. The server's down. The, the cloud is down the apps aren't working, your mind's racing. What could be wrong? You got the team up. They're scrambling from tool to tool. They're messaging each other. What's going on. What's wrong? Is it the back end? Is the front end? Is it global? Is it the server? Is it the network? Is it the cloud provider? Did that last commit? I just did break everything.

Leo Laporte (01:24:36):
Do we have slow running queries? According to a new Relic report? Only half of all organizations have implemented observability for the networks and systems. The report showed maintaining network. Observability continues to be an issue for companies around the world. I'm I'm sure it is. That won't happen. If you get new Relic new, what is observability? The, the clear concrete knowledge of what's going on in your entire holistic, your entire system. And if there's a problem where the problem is and how to fix it, fast, new Relic, combined 16 different monitoring products. Normally you'd get 'em separately, but this way you can see what's going on across the entire software stack in one place, one pane of glass, you'd get application monitoring, APM, unified monitoring for apps and microservices. You get. If you're using Kubernetes, you get pixie awesome, instant Kubernetes, observability distributed tracing. So you can get all your traces without any management headaches you can find and fix issues, fast network performance monitoring that doesn't just stop at at, at the end of your cloud.

Leo Laporte (01:25:50):
But it goes a system-wide correlated view, ditch those data silos, no more guesses. And that's just four of the 16 tools. Everything you need to pinpoint issues down to the line of code. So you know exactly what happened and you can resolve it quickly. I mean, this is something you need and, and you know what, that's why the dev and ops teams at DoorDash and GitHub and epic games and so many more 14,000 companies, you new Relic to debug and improve their software. So whether you run a cloud native startup or a fortune 500 company, you need new Relic. And guess what? All of this, everything I just described is free forever. It takes five minutes to set up new Relic in your environment. You can access the entire new Relic platform and a a hundred gigabytes of data per month, free forever. You don't even need to give 'em a credit card.

Leo Laporte (01:26:48):
Now, if you find it useful, you may wanna expand, but you can get started for free, very easily. Just sign up at new relic.com/windows that that next middle of the night call is just around the corner. Don't kick yourself saying I should have listened to Leo. Get it now. N E w R E L I C. You probably, this is already on your radar. Maybe you've been putting it off. Can I just nudge you a little bit new Relic, N E w R E L I c.com/windows. I'm nudging. You come on, you know, you want it new relic.com/ it's free, no credit card required. We thank them so much for their supportive windows, weekly Paul and Mary Jo on with the show. We go to the back of the book and that means it's time for the, I love this. I saw this too tip of the week. Have

Paul Thurrott (01:27:45):
You folks discussed Google amp at all, anywhere in the network

Leo Laporte (01:27:49):
Yet? Endlessly on TWITg. In fact, Jeff Jarvis and I battled back and forth for years. Really? We even had the guy who was head of Google news come in and try to defend it.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:03):
Nice. Okay.

Leo Laporte (01:28:04):
I, I, I am not. I think I always thought from day one, it was just a power grab by Google. Yep.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:09):
Yeah. Okay. So yeah, it's what it looks like. Right? So it, the, the mile high version of this is that for certain websites that you access via Google search, I guess they, I guess, or Google news, will they actually preload a version of this light on their own servers and serve it from there. And it looks like the

Leo Laporte (01:28:28):
Real site, the JavaScript comes from Google. Everything comes from Google. They limit the whole, they, what they said is, oh, this is gonna make the web faster because we prevent all these heavy graphics and, you know, huge JavaScript

Paul Thurrott (01:28:41):
What it's do though.

Leo Laporte (01:28:43):
What's it all, I, I know,

Paul Thurrott (01:28:44):
I know it's Altru, but the fear here is that this will give Google more insight into your browsing activities because now not only do they know that you went to this site, but now they know what you did on

Leo Laporte (01:28:56):
The whole site. Right.

Paul Thurrott (01:28:57):
It's all in. Cause they have yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:28:59):
Yeah. It's and they said, oh no, no other people can run series. No one ever did, but it's pretty clear. I mean, I was the one who was saying, Jeff was saying, oh no, no, this is about improving the web. Sure. I think I was proven, right.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:15):
This is embracing extent. It's classic. Yeah. So as you might expect, all of the privacy concerned entities on the web are starting to fight back against us. So, so far brave and duck DACO both of which make browsers both of which make products work on mobile and desktop have released updates that will actually disable Google amp. And you just don't have to worry about it. And this, you know, again, this is a little data point for my, I feel like I'm gonna end up on brave. You know, I evaluate a brave a lot. I, this

Leo Laporte (01:29:46):
Is a big move for brave. I'm really grateful to them for doing that. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:29:50):
Yeah. So that's smart. A little closer to home. I actually had forgotten this until we were recording the show. Couple weeks ago. I was use actually I was using the HP specter 14 and we were just talking about the X three six. I use this upstairs on the bed sometimes on the laying the bed and use it for an hour or so. And I noticed I couldn't, I was in the middle of doing a bunch of, of

Leo Laporte (01:30:10):
Different stuff. You're using your laptop, lying on bed. Are you lying in your stomach with your heels behind you? Just kind of kicking back and forth? Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:30:16):
That's exactly right. And actually I have a princess phone in one ear And then Silk.

Leo Laporte (01:30:24):
All right. Photoshop assignment, everybody. All right. Go.

Paul Thurrott (01:30:27):
Yeah. That's exactly it. And I couldn't click any or a touch cuz it's touchscreen. I tried both anywhere in the lower right corner of the screen and I'm I like, what is I thought, I thought the screen was going bad. I said, this is it. I have a, I have a, this weird hardware problem. So I, to, to work around it at the time, cause I had a lot of stuff going on. I would, if I had to click down there, it would actually resize a window so that the corner of the window wasn't down in the corner of the screen and then you could click on it fine. And it was fine. I'm like, okay, well I'm gonna have to, you deal with this at some point, but I will just, you know, work around this for now. And then two, I guess it was Monday morning, Brad called me on teams and teams puts up the little notification down in that bottom right corner and I'm clicking on it and nothing's happening. You can tell you most over it. The most cursor doesn't change. It's not something was wrong. And I realized, wait, this is the same problem. So I Googled it. And this has been a problem in windows 11 since they released it. Microsoft has never acknowledged it. Let alone tried to fix it, but it's still there. And the, this the workaround, I guess, and this is it's just classic. It crowd classic crash Explorer. If you just crash Explorer and rerun it dot 

Leo Laporte (01:31:38):
Is that assistant internals program?

Paul Thurrott (01:31:41):
No, no, I'm sorry. This is like file Explorer. Like the you crash the window shell like that will. Yeah. So it's like the nut from space kind of solution.

Leo Laporte (01:31:49):
Oh, that's terrible. Okay. Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:31:51):
It works. I mean, it's, you know, it's fine. If you had file Explorer, windows open, you will lose them. But everything else will be where it was. So it's not, you know, it's the important thing is that you know about it because if you run into this, it's not, you, it's not the computer.

Leo Laporte (01:32:03):
It's kind of like task manager on steroids.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:08):
Well, you actually would use task manager. Yeah. I actually I didn't write the script. I found a script online. I can run it. We'll crash. And then we run exploring.

Leo Laporte (01:32:16):
Yeah. Yeah. So it's just re it's just killing and Explorer basically.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:20):
Yep. Yep.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:20):
So this is a

Leo Laporte (01:32:21):
Mainstream, here's an image of Paul with his laptop on exactly.

Paul Thurrott (01:32:25):
Yeah. My phone is pink. That's

Leo Laporte (01:32:27):
Close

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:30):
Go. So this is an, this is a mainstream builds your

Paul Thurrott (01:32:34):
Yep. Yep.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:34):
It is. I've never had it luckily, but now I will. No,

Paul Thurrott (01:32:38):
No, it's not. I'm not saying happens to every 100%. No,

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:40):
No. I was just curious because though I'm like, ah,

Paul Thurrott (01:32:43):
Well it's the type of thing when it happens, you it's like anything else. Then you become an expert in it and then you look it up and you'll realize this is happening.

Mary Jo Foley (01:32:51):
Everyone else does it too. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:32:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Two, two equal time. Apple has had a very similar problem with Monterey program called windows manager has a memory leak and you, you suddenly you'd be using your M one Mac and it'd say you're out of memory and you'd go to their equivalent of task manager, which is called activity manager. And they're eating 270 gigabytes of memory or something is a finder or so it's, I think it's like a, it's very similar to this Explorer thing and you just kill it. It rela yourself and you're, you're good to go. Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:33:22):
So windows, it doesn't relaunch itself. So you have to rerun it.

Leo Laporte (01:33:26):
That's that's

Paul Thurrott (01:33:26):
Why I need

Leo Laporte (01:33:26):
This and

Paul Thurrott (01:33:26):
The way to yeah. Well the, but if you run into this, you can, first of all, you can crash by the way, you know, not to keep beating this to death. Windows 11 makes everything harder, right? It's just, everything is extra steps. So if you run task manager, usually back in the day, actually there it is again, actually. Ooh, interesting. I was gonna say windows Explorer typically appears in the top, in the app section at the top, but the day I did this, it was not there. And you go down below this background processes, yada yada, yada, it goes on and on and on actually it's really going on and on. And then below that is windows processes. And you go way to the bottom of that. This is literally the bottom of the entire display. You find windows Explorer in there. That's but it's not there now actually it's at the top. So that took a long, that took a long

Leo Laporte (01:34:11):
It's probably based on a sort, right? I mean you're sorting by CPU maybe now or

Paul Thurrott (01:34:16):
No, no, this is just alphabetical. So it's, they, they grouped them by apps. Background processes is the windows processes actually it's back an app. So I, maybe that was part of the problem. But if you wanna rerun Explorer, which you do, you also do that from task managers. So you do file run new task Explorer. DOTC has already filled up.

Leo Laporte (01:34:34):
Is it a service or no? Is a, it's just

Paul Thurrott (01:34:36):
An app. It's an applic, it's an app. It's, it's an, it's an app and a service really mean honestly, but it's both, I'm sure

Leo Laporte (01:34:43):
It has.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:44):
Well, it has a ton

Mary Jo Foley (01:34:45):
Of it's hybrid.

Paul Thurrott (01:34:48):
You must have a ton of extra stuff anyway, this just so just, if it ever happens to you try to remember this, it's not hard to figure it out, but it's, it threw me for, I really thought I had a hardware problem. The first

Leo Laporte (01:35:00):
Time I saw and presumably they'll fix this, although they did not on last Tuesday. That's

Paul Thurrott (01:35:03):
Hilarious.

Leo Laporte (01:35:04):
That's funny that you think that

Paul Thurrott (01:35:06):
I presum, they haven't even said it's a problem that Microsoft has never acknowledged.

Mary Jo Foley (01:35:10):
I've never heard about it. No.

Leo Laporte (01:35:12):
Has it happened to you, Mary Jo? No.

Mary Jo Foley (01:35:14):
No. Now it, now that we've talked about it, it will.

Leo Laporte (01:35:18):
Well,

Paul Thurrott (01:35:19):
But if it does just, you know, you know, if it comes up

Mary Jo Foley (01:35:21):
Yeah. I'll be like, what was that trick E exc something. So

Paul Thurrott (01:35:25):
It's you know, the rebooting your computer by the way, should also work. That'll

Leo Laporte (01:35:29):
Explore. I'll restart it. Yeah,

Paul Thurrott (01:35:31):
Yeah, yeah. Shut down. Restart that kind of thing. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:35:34):
Lisa's, it's funny. I, I can't tell her, this is, is the wrong thing to do, cuz it isn't, but she last night she said my printer every once in a while we'll print. So I reboot and it prints. I said that really shouldn't make any difference at all, but it does. So

Mary Jo Foley (01:35:48):
I reboot, if anything's wrong, I'm reboot, reboot,

Leo Laporte (01:35:51):
Reboot. We all just see what happens. It's the first thing that the, the condition it department tell you is have you turn it off and on again,

Mary Jo Foley (01:35:59):
It sounds dumb, but it easily works.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:01):
It's dumb. But, and, and, but it does

Leo Laporte (01:36:03):
Work, but it works. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. It works reboot. It

Paul Thurrott (01:36:06):
Does. The reason I did. So I told you this had happened on the specter and, and so why didn't I just reboot that? Because like I said, that thing actually had a lot of stuff going on and those things that were going on, it was downloading a bunch of videos. I couldn't reboot, I needed that stuff to finish, but I needed to do, you know, I'm trying to interact with something in the bottom corner of the window I had, like I said, I had, I resized it cause I needed to keep the thing running.

Leo Laporte (01:36:28):
Yeah.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:29):
So that could be a problem, but if that's a problem, you can, you can kill Explorer without actually would that kill the file down? Probably not. I didn't, I didn't do it on that computer. Any am. Okay.

Paul Thurrott (01:36:41):
And then the app pick of the week is I, I obviously use, or maybe not obviously, but I do use OneDrive. I like OneDrive. Onedrive is kind of neat because you can get a terabyte of storage across multiple accounts. If you pay for Microsoft 365 personal or family. Right. And that's what I do and I have it out for actually multiple years. So it's, it's neat. And I do all my work stuff through there, but I had been experimenting lately with Chromebooks and Linux. And I gotta tell you not super excited about the solutions I found for getting OneDrive, working on those computers. And so I started looking around at different cloud storage things. There are third party solutions, obviously like Dropbox or box. And then, but I also have a lot of Google storage like through my Google account because my work pays for that.

Paul Thurrott (01:37:24):
And so I thought that's interesting. I actually have more storage in Google than I do at Microsoft. I should look at that. And so I tried just for the first time in years, I installed the Google drive desktop client on actually on this computer here. And I have to say it works pretty good. I like the way it into agrees with the file system because you get a drive for your Google drive, like in file Explorer, under drives, which I think is neat. They also put a shortcut to it in quick access, meaning you can unpin it and get rid of it if you don't want it there. Whereas the one drive thing is basically just pinned in the navigation pain. There's nothing you can do about it unless you really know what you, there's a way to get rid of it, but it's a little complex.

Paul Thurrott (01:38:01):
And as for why you might do this assuming you don't need the office apps, the big advantage as a consumer, Google versus Microsoft is for that same 9 99 per month on Google, you get to few terabytes of storage instead of one, which is what you get at Microsoft. So it's and they have different tiers too. If you need less storage, just something to look at. Anyway, I was surprised by how well it worked. In fact, I am using it to sync some of the same folders I sync with OneDrive. I was curious if that would even work just so I could sort of duplicate the, the folders that I do sync to PCs regularly and see if that would work through Google as well. It works fine. So you can actually stack 'em I guess if that's the right term or you can use 'em together too. So it works. I'm surprised by how well this worked.

Leo Laporte (01:38:46):
Yeah. You know, cloud, I always look for cloud that will work with my Linux and Chromebooks. Cause then you want everything. So

Paul Thurrott (01:38:53):
What do you, what do you use on Linux? Like what's the

Leo Laporte (01:38:57):
P cloud has a command line interface and there's also, and I'll have to remember what the

Paul Thurrott (01:39:01):
Use programs. That's not super nerdy and

Leo Laporte (01:39:03):
Oh, what I use is nerdy, but there are programs that will do multi-cloud solutions, which is kind of cool. And I think one drives in there. So you authenticate it for the various things and then it will.

Paul Thurrott (01:39:15):
I, yeah, I'm not a big, I don't like associating my cloud storage with companies. I'm not clear of, although I, I have certainly tried that in the past two. Yeah. I don't know.

Leo Laporte (01:39:27):
I think the Google drive solutions. Good. Do they have a command line for Linux though? No, probably

Paul Thurrott (01:39:31):
Not. I, I dunno. Sorry. I think I actually, I should say, I say this didn't solve my Linux problem. Right. I don't, there is no native Linux client, but obviously it does work with Chromebooks and it is kind of neat to be able to open aler book and that thing just be

Leo Laporte (01:39:48):
There. And that

Paul Thurrott (01:39:49):
Does, that

Leo Laporte (01:39:49):
Does work pretty much. That's a great idea. Yeah. Mary Foley time for your enterprise pick of the week.

Mary Jo Foley (01:40:01):
Yes. My enterprise pick comes courtesy of Michael res, who does some work with pet.com. He just found out that Microsoft is doing more with loop components coming to outlook. So loop C and are already in teams. But now Microsoft's gonna start rolling them out first to people in the targeted release channel, which means like the dev channel beta channel for, for outlook. And then they're going to be coming by June starting to roll out by June for everyone, with outlook on the web and outlook for windows on the desktop.

Leo Laporte (01:40:40):
This is the thing that we are looking at as kind of a notion

Mary Jo Foley (01:40:44):
Replacement. Well, so there's two things, right? There's loop components, which are these interactive objects that you can put inside of teams chats or inside of emails. And when people get them, everybody can collaborate on them and they'll update in real time. So that there's not this lag, wondering if, you know, is this the most recent version of this Excel spreadsheet or this table or whatever, it'll all like people will be able to co-author in real time, it'll automatically update inside of your email, which is kind of cool. So when you email it around, it'll be up to date. The thing that we're talking about that's like notion also is called loop confusingly. And that is a standalone app that Microsoft showed off at ignite. And we don't, we're not exactly sure when the preview of that will be coming, but I'm thinking it could come around the time of build, because I think Microsoft will wanna talk about fluid framework, which is the underlying technology and how developers can use that. So I, they may start talking about loop the standalone app at that time as well.

Leo Laporte (01:41:50):
Pretty

Mary Jo Foley (01:41:50):
Exciting loop components. I know it's trickling loop. We saw loop components for teams now loop component for outlook and then loop itself the

Leo Laporte (01:41:59):
App that's that's where this could be notion if it had a lot yes. Components with all sorts of interesting capabilities. Yeah. Right.

Mary Jo Foley (01:42:06):
Cool. And then I just wanted to remind people next Tuesday, Microsoft Q3 fiscal 22 earnings will be happy. So of course we'll be talking about it on the show next week.

Leo Laporte (01:42:18):
Next Wednesday, our world famous learnings episode

Mary Jo Foley (01:42:23):
Earnings are learnings, learnings from earnings.

Leo Laporte (01:42:27):
Yep. How about a code name?

Mary Jo Foley (01:42:29):
Okay. This isn't technically a code name, but I'm gonna put it out there. Think it's a name you're gonna hear a lot, possibly again in conjunction with build. So meta OS I've talked about quite a bit. It's this idea at Microsoft of how they can kind of, I don't even know how to describe this in a short way, but like how they can use their knowledge grow RA APIs, the substrate underneath office 365 and all the layers on top of Microsoft, 365 and turn it into a platform that third party developers and Microsoft itself can build on top of. So that you'll be able to write an app once and it'll run across all these different platforms of the platforms in the world of meta OS are called hubs. And I think you're gonna start hearing the word hubs a lot from Microsoft.

Mary Jo Foley (01:43:23):
I've seen it trickle out in a couple of things lately, like job descriptions and blog posts. I've seen them actually say hubs. And I'm like, oh, they're talking about meta OS. So hubs, when they talk about meta us are multiple things. Teams is considered a hub. Outlook is considered a hub office.com which was codename union. The office app that is considered a hub and even the edge browser is considered a hub. So what they're trying to do with meta OS, I believe is give you a bunch of small apps and, and components like lists forms, things that you could use across all of these different hubs. And they would be basically the same app. So it's like Microsoft is trying to turn its own office 365 platform into a development platform in, in a greater sense. So I, I think a great place for them to talk about meta OS would be build, they've been super secretive about it. They never will even mention it. Like if you bring that term up, they're like, we don't know what you're talking about, but yeah. It's been something they've been working on for a year. Right. And it's, it's in people's job descriptions on LinkedIn. I mean, it's not really a secret. So yeah, I, I think now would be a good time for them to start explaining this a little better especially because it's a developer of play and it would be very good for third party developers to know about it

Leo Laporte (01:44:48):
And build would be the place to do it.

Mary Jo Foley (01:44:50):
It would, it would.

Leo Laporte (01:44:52):
Yeah. I think that's kind of interesting, you know, Microsoft made its name as a platform company right. With

Mary Jo Foley (01:44:58):
It did. Right. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:45:00):
And there's always this tension between Microsoft providing the components and third parties providing the components.

Mary Jo Foley (01:45:07):
Exactly. Yep.

Leo Laporte (01:45:08):
And yeah, Microsoft now is so varied in widespread and big. Yeah. And you use so many Microsoft tools that honestly there's some real synergy if they just make sure everything is componentized and can be right. Mixed together. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:45:23):
These, these loop components, I just talked about that's part of this too. Right? Like they, that's another example of something that could, is a component that could be it in apps from other companies or used almost like composable bits in and of itself assembled together to make something for, for a company internally, externally. I, I know I'm not explaining this that well, but it's, I'm a little vague still on what this all is. And I keep getting little pieces tossed to me and I'm like I to put this all together into a thing and I'm not a hundred percent sure it's all there yet, but we're getting there. Meta OS. You're gonna hear that term.

Leo Laporte (01:46:02):
I wonder if there rest, go ahead. I was just gonna say until we can collaborate on the show notes in the metaverse in the metaverse exactly without legs. The, the three of us. Exactly. Right. I just wonder from a business point of view of Microsoft, is it pains not to offend third party developers? And yet I know they would love to provide a complete platform.

Mary Jo Foley (01:46:23):
They

Leo Laporte (01:46:23):
Would with Microsoft tools. There's also the antitrust consideration they got in trouble for including Explorer. That looks like small potatoes now. Right. It does.

Mary Jo Foley (01:46:32):
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:46:34):
It's interesting at the end of the world when they did this and then today it's like, of course there's a browser, of course. Right.

Mary Jo Foley (01:46:41):
So if you think about, if you think in the bigger picture, like what are they trying to do with power platform? They're trying to have the low code, no code platform, right. The way you do that is you keep raising the level of abstraction, right? Like you want it so that you give people this platform that they don't really even have to know how to code on top of right. You're like, oh, what if we give you lists and notes and tap everything's

Leo Laporte (01:47:03):
Componentized

Mary Jo Foley (01:47:04):
Sticky notes. And then, and you just take, pick 'em up and throw 'em together

Leo Laporte (01:47:07):
Together. Yeah,

Mary Jo Foley (01:47:08):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:47:09):
Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:47:12):
That's what I think they're doing anyway.

Leo Laporte (01:47:15):
Yeah. I think you're right. All right. Beer time.

Mary Jo Foley (01:47:19):
Yeah. So even though it's spring, I went with a big beer because I just got to taste this recently delirium who everybody knows about love their

Leo Laporte (01:47:28):
Stuff.

Mary Jo Foley (01:47:29):
Yeah. They're so they're from Broer G H Y H U Y G H E. How do you pronounce that? You

Leo Laporte (01:47:37):
Know, when I pronounce Dutch, I just kind of make my mouth all mushy go Bru, who you,

Paul Thurrott (01:47:42):
Yeah, I had, I had Steven brink explain this to me one time, but it's it's unpronounceable.

Leo Laporte (01:47:46):
So yeah, it

Mary Jo Foley (01:47:47):
Is pretty much anyway. That's the B who we're pretending, we're pronouncing. They make delirium.

Leo Laporte (01:47:53):
You

Paul Thurrott (01:47:53):
Won't even, you

Leo Laporte (01:47:53):
Won't.

Mary Jo Foley (01:47:58):
So this, this version of delirium is a it's aged in bourbon barrels. So they take a already strong beer. Oh, baby delirium, knock turn. Put it in a bourbon barrel for 10 months. Oh, baby. Yeah, take it out, put it in a bottle or on tap and you get this delicious. How do I even describe it? It's like an Amber color tastes like caramel, brown, sugar, dark fruit. But, and, but in some way, somehow it's still kind of light. Like it's not heavy, like a lot of bourbon barrel beers. It still has a little bit of lightness to it. You taste like the char of the barrel, but it's not like this big bourbon barrel bomb,

Leo Laporte (01:48:38):
But it's still 24 proof. So enjoying

Mary Jo Foley (01:48:41):
No 11 eight. Yeah. You 11.

Paul Thurrott (01:48:43):
You'll be, you'll be seeing the pink elephant.

Leo Laporte (01:48:45):
Trust me.

Mary Jo Foley (01:48:47):
No, only, only 11.8. Well

Leo Laporte (01:48:49):
That's that's 20 or proof. Cause it double it for proof. It's 11.8%. Alcohol

Mary Jo Foley (01:48:55):
Percent. Yeah. That's right.

Paul Thurrott (01:48:59):
Which 100% alcohol Leo.

Leo Laporte (01:49:00):
Yeah. Baby is.

Mary Jo Foley (01:49:02):
It's very good. Like I know it sounds crazy. I'm saying it's light, but I've had a lot of bourbon barrel beers where you're like, whoa,

Leo Laporte (01:49:09):
This is my kind overwhelming. This is my beer.

Paul Thurrott (01:49:12):
Is this a new thing? I never, I've never

Mary Jo Foley (01:49:13):
Heard. No. they made, they've made it for a few years. The 20, I think it's a 20, 21 version or 22 version that's out now. And I'm lucky enough that I live near a beer place that has it on tap and in bottles right now. So yeah, that's pretty unusual. Very good. If you find it black barrel aged, it's not a cheap beer, but it's a delicious

Leo Laporte (01:49:36):
Sphere

Paul Thurrott (01:49:37):
In they're in Antwerp. No Harlem Belgium. What's the capital

Leo Laporte (01:49:43):
Belgium. Oh, they're in Belgium. Oh, they're in Antwerp. No, no. 

Mary Jo Foley (01:49:48):
Brussels, Brussels,

Paul Thurrott (01:49:49):
Brussels. Thank you. Jesus.

Mary Jo Foley (01:49:51):
I'm sounds like, sounds like it's a typical Americans. It's somewhere over there. It's over

Leo Laporte (01:49:57):
There. It's north of

Paul Thurrott (01:49:58):
Africa. Geez. Louis. It is one of three interesting things in the entire city. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:50:04):
Yeah. You're right. Brussels is kind of gray. Brussels.

Paul Thurrott (01:50:07):
Yeah. Yeah. It's it's not a lot going,

Leo Laporte (01:50:08):
Except for the

Paul Thurrott (01:50:09):
Mannequin a leak. There's a, you got that.

Leo Laporte (01:50:14):
Uhoh

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:14):
Sorry. He he's gonna jump. He is. He's like on top of the monitor, like that's

Leo Laporte (01:50:22):
Another thing gets dude, they get as high as they can. My coach

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:27):
He's like up there. I'm like, no.

Leo Laporte (01:50:30):
Oh, don't jump. Don't jump.

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:32):
Don't do it. Don't do it.

Leo Laporte (01:50:34):
Hey, this was a fun show. Thank you. You talked to me down from the alleged speaking of higher up. I'm not gonna, I'm gonna wait until the 12th generation. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:50:44):
Wait, you should wait. What happens?

Leo Laporte (01:50:45):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna wait. Yeah. So thank you for that. Thank you for filling us in on everything going on in the world of Microsoft. Mary Jo Foley writes for zdnet@allaboutmicrosoft.com. Paul Thra has his very own autonomous site, thra.com. And for his books, the field guide windows 10 lean pub.com highly recommended both. If I get the premium subscription from Paul, cuz then you get some really good stuff, including his soon to come history of windows, right?

Paul Thurrott (01:51:23):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm whining it down. It's getting, it's getting close getting

Leo Laporte (01:51:27):
To the present,

Paul Thurrott (01:51:28):
So. Oh, all right. Yeah. All right. Present is catching up to me. So to speak,

Leo Laporte (01:51:35):
We do windows weekly, every Wednesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM. Eastern time, 19 or 1800 UTC. If you wanna watch us do it live, live.TWIT.tv. There is a chat room you can chat live at IRC dot TWIT TV. Of course, if you're a member of club TWIT, you get your very own spot animated gifs at all. The discord is happening very hot and we love it. And we love having you in there. You club, TWIT members are very important to us. Seven do it keeps Sorachi in coffee and cat food. $7 a month gets you access to add free versions of all of our shows. 

Mary Jo Foley (01:52:19):
You can also get into the discount. He's like time for snacks. Time for snacks. Time

Leo Laporte (01:52:23):
For snacks is my favorite one. Wait, you're from Belgium.

Mary Jo Foley (01:52:27):
I know that's good.

Leo Laporte (01:52:30):
You also get the trip plus feed, which has a lot of shows that don't appear on the website, including the untitled Linux show the Stacy's book club, the GI fizz. We are gonna be launching a new show very soon with somebody, you know, and love all of that because when we launch a new show, there's no advertising. So the club members kind of foot the bill, which is thank you, which is great. We also have launched this week in space, literally from the club into the mainstream. Yeah. Thanks to again, club members. So it's a really big help to us. And I think as the club grows, lots more will be possible. So if you're not a member, seven bucks a month, 84 bucks a year, TWIT club sorry, TWIT.tv/club TWIT. There's also corporate memberships. If you have a large group and you wanna get them all listening and I should mention if you just want an ad free of windows weekly we also offer that through iTunes and I think Spotify as well.

Leo Laporte (01:53:29):
I think it's 2 99 a month. You know, just the show, just the one thing, but you know what? Spend a little more get 'em all ad free and all the other benefits club TWIT, TWITs.tv/club TWIT on demand versions of this show available for all. You don't have to be a club TWIT member at add supportive versions at the website, TWITt TV slash WW. You'll see a link there to a YouTube channel. You can also get the RSS link or a link to your favorite podcast player. So you can subscribe and that way you'll get it automatically. The minute it's available of a Wednesday afternoon, we thank you all for being here. Dozers we invite next week. It'll be Microsoft earnings, Palooza

Paul Thurrott (01:54:10):
Earnings, learnings.

Leo Laporte (01:54:11):
You think they're gonna have a, a good quarter? Mary Jo. Yeah. yeah, I do. Yeah.

Mary Jo Foley (01:54:19):
Although there are some tough prior year comparables, so

Paul Thurrott (01:54:22):
That's true. Actually. That's a good point that didn't play PC makers a little. Mm that's a good

Leo Laporte (01:54:28):
Part. All right. Well we watch with

Paul Thurrott (01:54:29):
Interest sometime.

Leo Laporte (01:54:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Paul. Thanks Mary Jo. Thank you all for joining us. We'll see you next time on windows weekly.