Windows Weekly 829, Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Leo Laporte (00:00:00):
It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Thurrott's here. Richard Campbell's here. Do a little speculating about next week's Big Build conference. There might be some pretty important announcements. We'll also talk about moment three. It's coming next week. What can you expect while install iPhone link for Windows on the show live. It actually works. And it's the end of the line for 21 H two. What does that mean for you? Find out next on Windows Weekly podcasts you love

Speaker 2 (00:00:34):
From people you trust. This is twit.

Leo Laporte (00:00:45):
This is Windows Weekly with Paul Throt and Richard Campbell. Episode 829 Recorded Wednesday, May 17th, 2023. You can't spell Blair Witch without ai. Windows Weekly is brought to you by Cash Fly. Cash Fly delivers rich media content up to 10 times faster than traditional delivery methods, and 30% faster than other. Major CDNs. Meet customer expectations 100% of the time. Learn how you can get your first month free@cashfly.com. We thank you so much for listening. As an ad supported network, we're always looking for new partners with products and services that will benefit our audience. With our tailored host Red Ads, you'll get an authentic and proper introduction to your brand. With every ad read, visit twi.tv/advertise and launch your campaign today. It's time for Windows Weekly, the show. We talk about the latest news for Microsoft next week. There's gonna be a lot of news for Microsoft this week. Yep. I don't know. We'll find out because Richard Campbell's here <laugh> in the Dark. <Laugh>

Richard Campbell (00:01:53):
In the Dark.

Leo Laporte (00:01:54):
In the Dark. He is likely Squire Song <laugh>.

Richard Campbell (00:01:57):
The, the, the wall behind me is green, but I to be sufficiently lit. I don't think you can see the wall

Leo Laporte (00:02:03):
Behind me at all. <Laugh>. No, it's really good. I like it. Looks like you're hiding in a tent from the Blair Witch. <Laugh>. Yeah. So scared. Richard is an Antwerp, which I've just learned is in Belgium of all places. Host of run as radio@renezradio.com. Paul Thurrott is also here. Hello? Pauly.

Paul Thurrott (00:02:26):
Hello. Still in pa. Indeed. throt.com is his site. They are both getting visibly excited. <Laugh>, I shouldn't say that. They're both invisibly excited about Build, which is next week. And we should announce that we will be covering build keynotes both Tuesday and Wednesday, starting at 9:00 AM Pacific noon Eastern. And because I think there's gonna be some announcements. You think so too? You guys, I, if you can't say anything, let just say I can either confirm nor deny. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually you could just go to the BUILD website and see for yourself. There's, yeah. Oh, see, there's a lot of information. There's

Richard Campbell (00:03:09):
Just a lot of ai. They're AIing a lot next

Leo Laporte (00:03:12):
Week. Yeah. Sam Altman's gonna join, sat an Adela on Tuesday to talk about open ai, which of course is 50 per almost 50% Microsoft now. Yeah. I assume they're gonna announce their sale of open AI to Microsoft in full <laugh>. Wow. Why not? Wow. You think? Well, maybe, who knows? I I think they want it. Yeah. Sam was I think this, there's the announcement, right? Forget Activision. We'll take open ai. That could be it. There you go. Sam was in Washington, DC yesterday talking to Congress about AI and saying things that made Congress happy. Like, yeah, we're scared of it too. It's scary. Please regulate my business. Please, please, please regulate us. We don't know what we're doing, <laugh>. We can't control it. It can hear me now. That really inspires. I gotta tell you. It's such confidence. <Laugh>.

Richard Campbell (00:04:09):
You've got all the Blair Witch going on today there.

Leo Laporte (00:04:12):
We really do. I am so scared. You can't spell a Blair Witch without ai. I'm just saying <laugh> just saying shouldn't really have a show title so early. But okay. I'm gonna write that one down. <Laugh>. That's good. That's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. So bef anyway, we'll be covering that and we don't really know what they're gonna talk about. We're just kind of guessing it's gonna be great. Tuesday and Wednesday. And I know people are interested. That's the assumption. Well, we don't, you know, I mean, even Apple only gets one day. Google gets, one day Microsoft's gonna get two. So just thank me later. Okay. And here from Jameson, not the Whiskey. I got a package for you guys. Hey, Leo. Hello. Love Twitting. All your shows. But Windows Weekly is by far my favorite. You really knocked it outta the park. Bringing Richard in. He's great. Ah, I love the cohesion of you all three together and laugh so hard at all of Paul's witty humor. All the best shame Paul and Richard's wives. <Laugh>. <laugh>. Well, but he also sent a package, which I'm Oh my, I don't know what's in here. It's unfortunately, it doesn't feel like a bottle. It feels something like something else. I don't know what. Yeah. Where could this be? I'm really taking a chance. Cover opening this in public. Is it white Powder coming out of it? I don't know.

Richard Campbell (00:05:29):
And on, on, I don't

Leo Laporte (00:05:30):
Know.

Richard Campbell (00:05:32):
Stream. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:05:34):
Aw. Oh, this is the, oh, this, he's joking. Cause he sent me Steve, the Steve Jobs book that the Steve Jobs group has put out in his honor. Well, that was nice of you, James. I thought it would be bigger. <Laugh>. That's really nice. I hear that a lot. This is awesome. Of course, they have a website and so forth, but this is the book they, they put out just, just recently. Jameson, you are so kind. It's, you know, if, if they had a Bill Gates in his own words, we could do that instead. But anyway. That's very nice. So I will tear this in half. Yeah. And I'll send, well half to each of you. I want the top half. Oh wait, <laugh>, this is hysteric. This is great. I'm really thrilled to have it actually. That's great. Thank you, Jameson. Anyway, let's get to, so, so I've made the announcement that we're gonna be here early next Tuesday and Wednesday. And what we'll do probably is start Windows Weekly a little earlier. Can I say why Richard? Or is that a secret?

Richard Campbell (00:06:40):
No. Think's a secret.

Leo Laporte (00:06:41):
You've got a big interview. 1230. I did.

Richard Campbell (00:06:44):
Yeah. I got on the, on the Wednesday. Yeah. missed Markovich is going to come on, run as that's

Leo Laporte (00:06:52):
Exciting. Did you, did you see my awesome interaction with Mark on Twitter this week?

Richard Campbell (00:06:56):
I didn't mess it up, fortunately. It must have been great.

Leo Laporte (00:06:58):
So, some <laugh>, I won't, I'm not gonna name the publication, but we'll have a story about Russ later in the show. Mark tweeted about Russ being available in the Colonel and blah, blah, blah, whatever. Right. So some, some other publication wrote Twitter User Markovich pointed out that Twitter user. Twitter user. I'm like a Twitter Twitter user. Yeah. That's

Richard Campbell (00:07:17):
Really

Leo Laporte (00:07:18):
Real. That's the worst title anyone could ever have. <Laugh> is Twitter. User. Set the record straight on that one. Even Elon doesn't wanna be seen as Twitter user. Yeah.

Richard Campbell (00:07:26):
I think I want to refer to Elon from now on Twitter.

Leo Laporte (00:07:29):
Twitter user. Elon Musk. That's a good,

Richard Campbell (00:07:30):
You know what? That's a good one. I like

Leo Laporte (00:07:31):
That. Let's do that from now on.

Richard Campbell (00:07:33):
Let's do that.

Leo Laporte (00:07:34):
<Laugh> Revi of course is in head of Azure. And but also before that he did CS internals. He is a great programmer. He's a novelist. He reverse engineered the NT kernel, you know, by the way he mentioned. So he responded to this and he mentioned, I forgot about this, cuz he's done so much. You kind of forget how, you know all the stuff. He was the guy that found the Sony root kit in the CDs, remember? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Everyone forgets about it. I forgot about it. Anyway, so I didn't realize it was him. No, I didn't know it. We talked about it extensively at the time. <Laugh> obviously, I'm trying to find the exact quote he gave me. I'm sorry I can't find this. But he went on the Today Show at that time and they referred to him. I think I wa I'm just gonna paraphrase. Cause I as Twitter user, no, there was no Twitter. No, no. Almost so Twitter user at the time. It was like concerned consumer <laugh> Mark.

(00:08:20):
You know, I, I could, I could be off a word, but it's basically concerned. That's about right. Yeah. Yeah. And it was so he is like, you know, like 20 years or whatever at the time. What was he just a, just a, some dude. I mean he was, was he citizen journals by then? I don't know. Yeah, he was Con Yeah. Was concerned. Concerned. He was a concerned, well at that time. When was that? I mean, he was definitely doing journals by that point, I would imagine. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But it was like the late 1990s, wasn't it? Yeah. The kit just looked that up. No. Was it that long ago? He distributed like 2005 was five. So he, cause we talked about it on twi. I remember. Yeah. He might have been at Microsoft by that point, but certainly had the social internal stuff going in. All that. Sony BMG copy protection root kit scandal in Wikipedia. A scandal erupted in 2005. Regarding, regarding Sony Bmgs implementation of copy protection measures. 22 million CDs. Yeah. Which created invisible root kits on your Windows machine and would phone home as win internals. Researcher. Okay. Right. Not concerned. Consumer win internals researcher. Yeah.

Richard Campbell (00:09:27):
He joined Microsoft in 2006, so that is right.

Leo Laporte (00:09:30):
Yeah.

Richard Campbell (00:09:31):
Yeah. The Sony

Leo Laporte (00:09:32):
<Laugh>. So, excellent. Yeah. Sony just, yeah. Oh yeah. The scandal erupted October 31st, 2005 when Win Internals later acquired by Microsoft Corporation researcher. Markovich posted to his blog a detailed description in technical analysis of the xCP software. Thank God Mark found it cuz it was a root kit. It was invisible. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It'd be hard to find. So funny. So smart guy. Even in 2005. And I am jealous cuz I have, we've had him on the show, haven't we Paul? I feel like we've had him on the Sure. We have. I mean, I've interviewed him a few times Yeah. Over the years. And I really think he's cool. No, you know, we, we all know. He's amazing. He's, he's the ultimate cool. Yep. He's what every man wants to be. Yeah. And every woman, rich, tall, good looking. <Laugh>, you know, I mean, muscular. I mean, it's pretty much the whole package. Okay. Master. So that'll be run as radio. You don't, you don't put those out the same day though. You take a little while to get

Richard Campbell (00:10:30):
It'll. That'll be a few weeks later. A few weeks later. But we, I haven't had him on the show in a few years, so I think the last time, yeah. I think the last time he was on was like 2012. Nice. You know, he's just, he's a busy guy. It's not easy to, to get

Leo Laporte (00:10:43):
Him. Yeah. I wanted to He's one of the most, go ahead. It was just one of the most sought out speakers at these shows. Oh yeah. Jeff Over's gone. Developers love him, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, he's like Scott Hanselman. He's somebody developers like re relate to. And when he says something, it's not corporate speak. It's like kind of genuine. But we've I've Richard too. I'm sure I've been we've been kind of privy to the internal <laugh> kind of fight over who ha who gets the best scores at these shows and, you know, thing. It's just, it's, it's, it's excellent watching these guys go at it. It's really funny.

Richard Campbell (00:11:17):
Luci bitch Manasi

Leo Laporte (00:11:19):
Snow back in the

Richard Campbell (00:11:21):
Ov Jesper Johansen. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, all And they, and any given day, those guys were gonna get the top score. You never

Leo Laporte (00:11:27):
Knew. I just, if you want see people just talking, you know, to each other, basically. It's, it's beautiful.

Richard Campbell (00:11:34):
Yeah. Instead standing in front of the big tech headboard in the speaker's lounge

Leo Laporte (00:11:38):
<Laugh> at the scores, you know? That's it. Exactly. Right.

(00:11:42):
Funny buddy. Let's get to Windows 11. Cause I know people are just, can't wait. Yeah. By the way, do you sink now that you're not yet nda? Or are you, I'm just wondering. Not yet. If, yeah. So you don't know anything yet. So this is yep. In full ignorance. Yep. Do you think Windows 12 will be announced next week? I was just talking to Brad about this this morning, and I, my guess is that it's not a, it's not a hard guess to say they're gonna talk about AI in Windows. It's one of those things they haven't really done yet. We've seen AI throughout Azure, in Microsoft 365 more generally, but AI in Windows, that's a, that's a lock. Whether they actually name it as Windows 12. That's an open thing. I I, it's, I'm guessing they will utter the term Windows 12.

(00:12:31):
Yeah. Interesting. But that's, that's just a case. And Windows 12 will be the AI version, the AI release. That's right. Yep. Very inter. This is so exciting, actually. Yep. I'm not very good at this kind of thing, but I will just point out, I've been talking about this for a while. I, I've been talking about this since before the Open AI stuff, <laugh>, you know, like the notion that Windows 12 will be the AI release. And then remember I talked myself into it on that show and I said, maybe they'll require an M P U, but realistically it'll probably just be better with an npu mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. I, I, I more and more. And then you see just more and more evidence of it as we go forward. So it seems like this is gonna happen. Nice. Good. Well, I'm excited. We'll, again, that's Tuesday and Wednesday of next week.

(00:13:12):
And if you can't be here for the keynote, you can certainly listen to Windows Weekly as you do, obviously. Yeah. We'll talk, we're gonna talk a little bit more about Build later in the show as well, because this if you're interested in Windows, for example, which you might be watching this show this is actually kind of a nice Windows heavy show. Good. Despite all the AI stuff, which honestly, in pre previous several years always hasn't been. So that's kind of nice too. We'll talk about that, you know, in a bit. Well then let's talk about the release preview of Windows 11. Yeah. So last week Microsoft released <laugh> to the release preview, a build that will be brought to stable as what they're calling moment three internally. And I'm gonna get to the whole moment, moment thing just to kind of recap what what's going on there.

(00:13:59):
But it hit the release preview last week. It will hit it will hit a kind of public preview release in week D, which is, should be next week. But this is one of those rare months where we have five Tuesdays. Hmm. So it could be the, what is this, the 30th instead of the 23rd? I guess we'll see second. Usually it's week D That's the plan. That's the stated plan. And then it will go stable on June 13th, which is the second Tuesday of June. Right. The Patch Tuesday. Big guy start using weak E. That would just be, I know week. The, the rare week. E release, week E who knows what we do then. Exactly. Are there some months with five weeks, I guess sort of. There are, yeah, there are four time Tuesdays. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Wow. Yeah, I think it happens once or twice a year, I would say.

(00:14:47):
Oh, Richard is, I feel like we have four times a year. Oh, four. There you go. So four a year. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like we had one semi, you know, fairly recently. I gotta, I gotta go rewrite my my date code clearly. Yeah. <laugh>, I had no idea Week E. So the, well, week E is not, not official. It's not, it's not, yeah. It's not, it's, it's not an official, like we always do this on Wiki, although it is one. If it's quarterly, then maybe that's not a horrible thing to do. Yeah. It's not outrageous. It'd be kind of cool actually. Yeah. Yeah. So compared to, I, I did a, a writeup about all of the new features that are in this thing. I would say compared to the previous two moment releases, this is the least interesting from an end user perspective because there isn't a lot of front facing UI change or, you know, new features that are super interesting, if that makes sense.

(00:15:41):
There is some stuff, I mean, don't get me wrong. I would say, I'm trying to think like what would people actually notice? <Laugh>. Okay. Okay. A lot that, that, that, that brings the tone significantly. One of them is that the Sniping tool is becoming the default action from print screen. I talked about that a week or two ago. So that's coming in moment three. But a lot of it is just kind of UI revision stuff. This change to alt tab. So for example, alt tab today by default in Windows 10 and 11 will take in the three most recent Edge tabs in addition to all your open windows. And then you could change it to don't show tabs. Five most recent tabs or all tabs all, yeah. All tabs and windows. Now it's only gonna be locked to 20 at the most.

(00:16:27):
So it's 25 or three A none. With, with some small changes to that ui. I think that's a memory issue. It probably has to do with sleeping tabs too. I, you know, edge by default will sleep tabs and they probably, it's probably hard to make those show up or whatever, or you switch to them and it's, it's a slow switch. We talked about access keys, remember a few weeks back that's coming. I, access keys is almost an accessibility feature. In fact, it may literally be an accessibility feature, even though they're not describing as such. And what I mean by that is that most people will never see access keys ever. The way to see it <laugh> is to select something or nothing in the, an explorer window or on the desktop, then hit the menu key on your keyboard if you have one.

(00:17:13):
And that you know, contact menu look here. Oh look, that's kind of cool. And it has access keys on it. So, and this is the, the point behind access key is compared to shortcuts like keyboard shortcuts, is that they're only one keystroke. So you can from that point or not from that point, it's not control V for view, it's just v Once you're in that mode, it's just V Yeah. So the idea is you hit a key to bring it up, then you hit a key to select something or move to the next level of the menu. Right. So the, the view choice is a good one because if you hit v, a sub menu will pop up off of it, and that too will have access keys on it. Right. So you hit the menu key then V and you got the V menu.

(00:17:49):
Right. Hit hit the menu Key O sort by menu. Yep. Now it's, I noticed there's capital, but Capital's E is the same as regular E. Yes. It's not, it's, it's just the letter. It's the letter E. Okay. Yeah. You don't, so, so Menu E now refreshes whatever you're looking at. That's cool. Yeah. So menu key E to refresh menu key easier than menu key D people will use for display settings. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I, I feel like in, in Windows as a whole we're used to certain things, the control keyboard shortcuts, the alt keyboard shortcuts. And now I would say even the Windows key keyboard shortcuts are pretty familiar to people. Windows key key shorts or shorter cuts kind of weird. Some menu or some keepers don't even have the menu key. Yeah. You know, I'm looking at my Lenovo, I don't, so I'll have to do shift.

(00:18:36):
See, I'm never gonna use shift F 12 D shift of 11. Yeah. Shift. That one's tough because shift F 11, it doesn't, I see I wrote shift 11, but it might be No, you shift F 11 then tap one of the, see, that's kind of annoying. I, it's, so I'm never gonna use that unless I have a menu key. But if you had a menu key, that's great. It's, yeah. Yeah. The problem is, I'm sure has there been any use for the menu key until now? <Laugh>. It just popped up. Yeah. Right. Well, it brings up the context menu. That was so argument, lot of boards have eliminated it because it never did anything that valuable. Yeah. Well, it it's non, yeah. I would say context menus are kind of non discoverable, even though we've had this notion of Right. Clicking things Yeah.

(00:19:19):
In Windows since Windows 95 and before that in office since office, whatever that was six. The one before Windows 95. I, I don't know. Listen, we pe most people dunno. Control C is copy. I know, I know. What are we expecting in people here know <laugh>, but I, you know, I think I'm probably fairly typical where I use the Windows key a lot and I Yep. Use the right click a lot. And those are kind of my go-tos. Yeah. I when I went back to college, I worked in a computer lab and, and this had just happened. And so I, I didn't know anything about the software, but I, someone would raise their hand like, what's up? They're like, I can't find this thing. And I'm like, did you right click it? And they're like, no. And then they're, oh, there it is.

(00:19:57):
Yeah. You cool? And they're like, oh, you're really smart. I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm a genius. The genius brilliant. <Laugh> just, I had no idea what that feature was, but it's just right clicking it always seemed to help. Yeah. anywho beyond that stuff, I mean honestly front facing, like you can add seconds to the second the system clock. I think we talked about that a little bit. There really, there really is not, this is not much. There is more stuff. I don't mean to say there isn't stuff, I'm just saying things that will impact the most users and that they'll actually see and notice, ugh. I mean, not much. I know I always get excited when I see widget improvements. Yeah. Then not even in the initial release. So, okay. Don't get too excited about that one. Two factors. I'm

Richard Campbell (00:20:40):
Glad the USB four stuff has been in, in implemented. We don't have any hardware for it yet, but Right, right. At least that's not gonna hold us back. Yeah. If you, if you get some USB before hardware win 11 will run up.

Leo Laporte (00:20:51):
Well, maybe you'll get some USB before hardware next week maybe. Mm

Richard Campbell (00:20:56):
Mm Possible. I'm thinking I'll,

Leo Laporte (00:20:58):
I don't know what you're talking about. So <laugh> maybe and

Richard Campbell (00:21:02):
Neither is he.

Leo Laporte (00:21:03):
Yeah. right. I like this. You know what this is, this is something on the that you get on a, on an iPhone mm-hmm. <Affirmative> two-factor authentication code clipboard copy. Where it automatically copies the authentication code of the clipboard. Cuz you know you're gonna need to be paste in it because you're gonna paste it. Yeah. Yep. That is nice. That's kind of nice. Especially nice. Yeah. It is nice. Yeah. Seconds in system clock, that's huge. <Laugh>. Game changer. Game changer. People have been asking for that for a long time. Yeah. VPN status, they

Richard Campbell (00:21:38):
Need to increment the version number. This is clearly, clearly

Leo Laporte (00:21:40):
A massive Yeah.

Richard Campbell (00:21:42):
Now with seconds.

Leo Laporte (00:21:43):
Yeah. The one thing I'm, I'm semi intrigued by and not only because they miswrote it <laugh> in in the UI, is this notion of presence, sensing a lot of computers have presence sensors in them. And that that is something that detects when you walk up to, and then leave the pc, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So Windows today has very basic support for that. There's this notion that you actually, it's not even using a present sensor. You, it can connect to a Bluetooth powered smartphone. And if that thing leaves the area Windows will say, Hey, it looks like you're gone. That's great. And we'll lock the computer. I love that. It's okay. It's okay. A better technology, be some kind of a camera like sensor that actually sees you and Hello. Could do

Richard Campbell (00:22:22):
The IR device. Yeah. Hey, you got anything they could do? Hello? Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:22:25):
If you've got a Hello Machine machine, you should be able to, well, well, okay. So today the way that works is a PC maker has to implement the present sensing part of it. So in other words, the screen will come on as you approach it, then Windows hello, will kick it and see you. Yeah. And then you'll be signed in. That's kind of a nice, that's good set of functionality. Yeah. but that's not built into Windows yet. But now that present sensing is in window settings, I'm thinking they're gonna be adding that capability directly to Windows, which is should. So this, this is part of moment three as well. Yep. So, moment three comes out Tuesday. When does it come out? That's the thing. So it, it technically comes out for everyone on Tuesday, June 13th, but because of the preview update schedule that we have now, right.

(00:23:07):
That they just revealed back in, I dunno, February or March, whenever that was. Typically the preview version of this, which you have to go manually choose to download. So I might want to do that. I might wanna flip that switch that I just got. Right? Yeah. So that should come out well if they follow the normal schedule, it'd be May 23rd, which is week D Flip this here, but this is here. This is here. Switch. Get the latest updates as soon as they're available. Well, so actually that's gonna, that's an open question. So does that mean download a preview update? I don't think it does. Oh. I think you actually, I think you still have to manually download it. Okay. I think what that is referring to is, as we talked about this, is the controlled feature releases, which are the one-off mini moments. Right.

(00:23:50):
that go up. Actually, let's talk about the schedule. Cuz actually this, this ties into this kind of next topic, right? There's another show title, by the way. One-Off mini moments. Hold on, let me lemme write that down. Yes. Yes. <Laugh>. well, because these things are all interrelated, right? So I, I, I, every couple of weeks now I've been talking about how Microsoft is changing the way that they update Windows, right? And they're, they're kind of formalizing this new strategy, which they'll change in two weeks. But here, here's where it is now, <laugh> once a year we get a feature update, right? Capital F, capital U, yeah. This is a version upgrade. Yeah. those things are deployed in the second half of a year and they use a kind of a logical system where they have known good configurations that should have the highest success rate with the feature update.

(00:24:32):
And they go to those computers first, and then over time they let in more and more computers as they see more success. And then eventually, some months later, four or five months later, this thing will be completely deployed. Meaning if your computer is compatible with that version of Windows, you will get it. There's nothing blocking it anymore. Once a quarter, they release this thing we just talked about, which is a moment, which is a series of feature updates. That's why there's a bunch of 'em. Right. it's actually not a hundred percent clear how this thing is deployed. I, I think it is just deployed. In other words, that day comes, patch Tuesday hits once a quarter, it will be installed eventually. You can go get it, you know, you can look at, at at Windows update to make it happen. But you could just sit there and wait and it will eventually just be installed.

(00:25:12):
It's mandatory. Here's your moment, it's gonna happen. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but then between Moments <laugh>, right. Also between feature updates, I guess. We have these things called controlled feature releases. And these are released so far, almost, almost every single month. I, they only skip January as we discussed previously. Those are deployed randomly, which is crazy. Because there's no compatibility issue here. So they want to do it in little controlled waves and see, you know, make sure there aren't big mistakes, not that that's ever stopped them. And then eventually they'll go out to everybody. And this is why you see some computers that have one feature and some computers don't. It's, it's random how those things go out. And then I just threw this in here just to be complete. I mean, also apps are updated. They can be based, they can happen anytime, right. And, and app could be updated literally every day if they wanted to.

(00:26:00):
So that's the system we have now. I actually think that moments and controlled feature releases are exactly the same thing technically, right. That the only difference is the volume of updates and maybe how it's deployed. In other words, I don't believe that moments are actually deployed randomly. But then again, individual features in a moment could be deployed randomly. So maybe a moment is just a combination of several CFRs, maybe <laugh>. I dunno. This is confusing at all. No, listen, this is if I, it wasn't for this, I wouldn't have a career. This is what I live for <laugh>. So <laugh>, this is, this is what you were born for Paul. That's, that's right. Yeah, I helped my it's my stepmother sort of watch a college graduation on her computer. And she was thanking me and thanking me and thank me.

(00:26:54):
And it was for my nephew. And I said, I listen, it's the only thing I can't help you with <laugh>. If you, if you, if you had needed electrical work or some screw thing and you know, put in or some whatever, I can't do any of that stuff. No. This is all I can do. Yeah. I feel the same way. Yeah. It's like, be grateful. I'm never going to <laugh>, I'm never gonna be able to mow the lawn, but I can't fix your computer. So yeah, there's that. So this this process of updating Windows is Microsoft calls it continuous innovation. They used to call it Windows as a service, right? <Laugh>, it's the same thing. It's just a different marketing name for the, it's spin. No, we're, we're, yeah. It makes it seem like a, it's like a, it's like a fun thing.

(00:27:33):
Yeah. It's a fun thing. I was, yeah. So if you follow Google, you, you might have seen stories from Google oriented blogs that were talking about the few number of times that Google, Google executives uttered terms like Android 14 during the Google io keynote. Yeah. In fact, they only said it once. Right. They didn't say Google Assistant even once at all. Yeah. They, they said Android a bunch of times. They're doing an AI thing and they don't mention the, their voice assistant. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Weird. Google executives uttered the term AI over 110 times. Yeah. During that keynote over once per minute. It's incredible. Right? Yeah. So that for, for someone like me who follows Microsoft, I see that and I think, oh man, I recognize this, this is what happened to Windows, right? This is, this is exactly, so it was all cloud, cloud, cloud, cloud.

(00:28:17):
Now it's gonna be all ai, ai, ai. And what gets shunted to the side is the thing I care about, which in my case is Windows, right? So I'm like, that's really interesting. So I started reading some of these stories and the, one of the Google guys Samir Samat, who was on stage during that i o keynote was asked by the Verge, you know, you're not talking up Android, like, what's going on? And then he said something that really resonated as well. And he said, because we can update Android so many different ways. And so often now using like the play system and app updates, the exact kind of system that we have in Windows, right? With this continuous innovation thing. He says, honestly, a, an annual update is not that big of a deal for us anymore. There will be some new features that will ship in the new version of Android when it arrives this fall in Android 14.

(00:29:06):
But the reality, especially if you have Pixel, pixel, think about it like how similar the system is, right? They have things that update through the store so they can update system components at any time. Pixels get what do they call 'em, feature drops, which are like moments, right? Once a quarter they get a bunch of new features across the P Pixel ecosystem. It's kind of cool, right? And so Android 13, 14, whatever comes out every year and it's like, yeah. You know, it's like whatever, you know, it's not a big deal <laugh>. And so it's, it's very, very similar a actually to what Microsoft is doing. In fact, my my theory is that Microsoft which is kind of jealous of the success of mobile, is probably copying what they're doing in mobile essentially with Windows. They're trying to make Windows more like mobile, you know? Hmm. even though it's this legacy operating system for the desktop

Richard Campbell (00:29:54):
Makes me wonder, this has been an ongoing battle to say what is the right cadence for Windows? Right? I'm, and you know, we figured out that the big updates every quarter was too many and then it was twice a year. Yeah. Like, now that they're izing a bit, so I'm just happy they're working on this. It means there's new minds there is actually concerned about this and trying to find a better way.

Leo Laporte (00:30:16):
Right. Well, you'll, you'll appreciate this, Richard. I think updating Windows is like traveling. You either do it too much, you don't do it enough. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know,

Richard Campbell (00:30:25):
Either way you're never good at

Leo Laporte (00:30:26):
It and you're never happy. <Laugh> <laugh>. Yeah. Yep. You're never gonna be happy. So Yeah. I, you know, I wonder, I wonder if mobile app providers like an Apple and Google are, feel pressure from the web, right. Where you can flip a switch and update everything all at once, you know? Yeah. there's, there's always a faster model of updating <laugh> than the one you're doing.

Richard Campbell (00:30:47):
Yeah. Just press refresh. Right. You don't get a, it

Leo Laporte (00:30:50):
Also, it also kind of raises the issue about Apple, right? Cuz Apple, apple does release little interim updates, obviously. And some, sometimes the, you know, iOS 16 has had several updates. Some of them include new features. Right. But they really do still rely on that Big Bang release every year. And I think the reason is, yeah, they're selling hardware, right?

Richard Campbell (00:31:09):
It's good for marketing. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:31:10):
Yeah. It's just, if they don't have something to sell, it makes the whole thing seem less interesting.

Richard Campbell (00:31:14):
And every time new piece of hardware, the fact that everything's moved around is acceptable.

Leo Laporte (00:31:18):
Yes. As opposed

Richard Campbell (00:31:19):
To the hardware you were using yesterday and are still using today, you no longer understand.

Leo Laporte (00:31:25):
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I, I mean, I complain about Microsoft because I care more. And I, I feel like we're more used to or accepting of updates happening all the time on Mobile for some reason. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I, I think in the past we justified it by the fact that these were new platforms, relatively speaking, and they needed that level of updating. I think now that we're in, what are we, 16 years into the iPhone? Yeah. you know, they could slow down <laugh>, you know? Yeah. They're, they're there.

Richard Campbell (00:31:55):
They're not doubling their market anymore. You know, it's, yeah. It is it is, so to speak a red ocean, right? Like, everybody who's got a device has got a device. Right. They're all fighting for market now. And, and one of the features that a lot of people look for is reliability.

Leo Laporte (00:32:10):
Yeah. Right? Right. Well, one way to be reliable is to stop changing the damn thing every week, but Yeah. You know?

Richard Campbell (00:32:18):
Yeah. Weird. That's, you

Leo Laporte (00:32:19):
Know, I know. Whatever. so there's that. And then I, this is kind of a, it's not a rhetorical question, I just don't know the answer to it. You know, one of the mysteries of the past year or so as the insider program has changed and changed and changed is that we got into a situation where people would be in the dev channel, the beta channel, or think even the release preview channel, and they flip that switch in settings to say, when the, when this version of Windows ships, I'm gonna get off of the insider program. And because of the way the insider program changed, where none of those things except for the release preview channel we're actually associated with the Windows version. You could never get off the treadmill. Right. <laugh>. So they've had to open these kind of artificial magic windows, or they called them, I think they called them off-ramps by which people could get out. And of course they would say to these people, look you're technical. You can figure out how to wipe this thing with an ISO and get back to stable.

Richard Campbell (00:33:11):
Yeah. Pave the machine, which is inevitably the correct answer. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (00:33:15):
It's always a Yeah. I, that's what I like to do, actually. But I did install moment three via the release preview on a couple of computers. Cause I needed to document it and get ready for the book. And I'm wondering if I, I did flip that switch. Will I get onto stable after moment three ships on June 13th? And I, I don't actually know. I'm gonna find out. So we'll find out. All right. They say it's not,

Richard Campbell (00:33:46):
It's, it's progress. I'm gonna call it progress.

Leo Laporte (00:33:49):
It's some kind of grass <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Sure. It's gre <laugh>. It's, it's at least gress ingress egress progress. We don't know. S we got the gress part. That's the key, right? You choose the preposition. <Laugh> where are we on egress? <Laugh>? Egress. S <laugh>, right? Yeah. alright. Right. So there's that. And then

Richard Campbell (00:34:14):
You gotta talk about phone link.

Leo Laporte (00:34:16):
Yeah. I mean, it was I think it was only a few months ago that they announced this in the insider preview, and it's kind of moved forward rather quickly, and now it's available to everybody. So assuming you have Bluetooth in your computer, which you would, if you have a laptop, especially oddly, I do not on this computer, which is a desktop computer. And I kept thinking I wasn't getting this update, but I eventually figured out it was because I don't have Bluetooth. Oh <laugh>. It's okay. I can, I have other computers, but you can now launch phone lengthy app, which is included in Windows 11 and connect it to an iPhone or an Android device. Right. So it's been an Android device for a long, long time. It's not as full featured as the Android functionality. It has partial support for iMessage.

(00:34:57):
Right. The apple messaging, I almost called it a standard, the app the proprietary <laugh> apple. It's a standard of using an iPhone. Yeah. <laugh>. It's a standard for 50% of the Yeah, yeah. Whatever it is. So I'm gonna install this, this phone. I don't know why it's not installed on here. So I'm gonna install this from the store. This is it, right? Yep. You don't have really? Yeah, I thought it was, I'd used it before. Yeah, it comes with Windows. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that odd? Okay. Well, you should, do you have an iPhone with you there? Yes. I'm gonna try it. Oh, good. Yes, you can. This, this will be interesting. We don't really have the 37 minutes. It's gonna take me to set this up, but <laugh> <laugh>, I was so, you know, I'm sitting here. I also, I, you know, I have a Pixel and I've used it with the Samsung and, and loved it.

(00:35:40):
Yeah. So I'm gonna open phone link, which I've just installed. I suspect you're gonna have to install a mobile app on your iPhone. I haven't changed. Oh, now it says use your Android phone from your pc. That's a little discouraging. Okay. So I need an app on my iPhone too called Phone Link. Yeah, but you're not gonna, that's not what you not says. So what you're seeing there, this is, all right. So th this is not related to CFRs, but this is one of the issues of the Windows. And it, it relates not just to apps which are updated through the store, obviously but also to system components like OneDrive, which is integrated into Windows 10 and 11. There are three versions of the OneDrive UI out in the world. And I, whether this is C FFR related, I don't, you know, I don't know.

(00:36:20):
It's irritating. And then what you're seeing is just an App store thing. So for some reason you downloaded this thing to your computer Yeah. And it gave you big mistake, not the very latest version. Oh, well no, I mean, that's weird. Like, I, I don't understand how you could have possibly not gotten the very latest version. Yeah, cuz I put, I have an, I have it now on my on my iPhone and it says to scan the QR code on my Windows machine. So how do you, so do you, so you, you already have that. Oh, I just installed it. You did? Oh, you just got it now? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, but you can't, there's nothing to nothing's. It doesn't, it doesn't have the option. You're not seeing the Correct. What if I, what if I pretend this is an Android phone <laugh>?

(00:37:01):
I wouldn't do that could go wrong. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It just changed. That's I did. It's so weird. Now it says now you, your phone my is okay. That's what you're looking for. That's so weird. You saw what happened? You saw it. I have a recording. I saw the old ui and now you have the right ui. Yeah, there you go. I'm gonna press click the iPhone button. There's all kinds of stuff. Now I've got the scan, the first the scan QR code. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Okay, now I got the QR code continue with clearing Bluetooth. Okay. Okay. I don't suppose my showing that QR code on on the screen will give something. I was trying to scan it, but you do need me enough time now I'm getting a pear. I'm saying pear. P a i r, not p e a r. Although I would love a pear right now if you had a nice too Actually yeah. Bosch or I do a pair of vodka. Does that help? <Laugh>? Okay. I'm pairing the device and it says continuing Bluetooth.

(00:38:02):
Look at that. Allow excellent extreme to recine your iPhone notifications. Allow. Okay. View your PC for instructions. It says on the on the iPhone it says, you know, view your PC for listen, if this is anything like the Android setup, I the Android yourself. By the time this is done, open turn on system show, show it to turn on Share system. No, in your to view turn on show notifications, turn on sync contacts. Oh my God. Okay. Where, when do I do these steps? Or maybe this is, you're all set. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Sure. <laugh>. Sure. Just kidding. Sure. Welcome to the phone Link app. So is it the same as Android or are there some not some features missing? There's some features missing. Yeah. In fact you know, there's three levels of support here, right? So if you have a Samsung device, certain Samsung devices you get, you get many more features.

(00:38:56):
Yeah. That worked. Including delivers to run apps. Yeah. That was certain apps. Yeah. That was really cool. Obviously I wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah. Android has other features and then iOS is kind of at the bottom. Both are Okay. Open settings. So I have to do some stuff on the yeah, I remember doing this on the Samsung too. You had to go through a bunch of permissions in order to have this work. So open settings and tap on Bluetooth. Okay. Tap the info next to X one Extreme, which I am paired to because I think cuz I did it. Yeah. Info. Okay. Sync contacts. Yes. Oh, that was cool. So now my contacts are syncing what could possibly go wrong and now it's doing that. So yeah. So there's a few, I did this with the Samsung, I remember. Mm-Hmm.

(00:39:47):
<affirmative>, look at this. It's got my call history. That's cool. Let's see if it's got my messages. I'm not gonna show this on the screen. Oh, I have to get permissions for messages. So time, like I said, there's lots to go <laugh>. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Okay. Lots. You're gonna be dicking around with this for a while. It's the way. All right. You all continue with your show and I'll do <laugh>. I'll do my thing here. Okay. Yeah. Listen, I'm glad they did this thing. Yeah. It's now saying show notifications and sync contacts. Okay. Turn on show notifications. Oh good. I turned that on. Okay. Done. Okay. This actually feels like it was a little easier than I on the Samsung. Yeah. Look, my messages are there. Look at that. That's probably easier cuz there's less to do, right? Right. There's less It does. Less so there's less to Yeah.

(00:40:34):
Maybe that's, maybe that's, yeah. Okay. So there you go. I haven't tried it yet. Like I said. Yeah, this is awesome. Andrew takes a while to set up. It's it was, it was quite a few steps I remember. Yeah, yeah. Yep. But it does less so I only have to turn on two things basically. Sure. Well, apple people like minimalistic stuff, so it's probably best <laugh>. Here's one unknown numbers. As we work to improve this feature, the first message from first time senders will not sync. Well, that's weird. Okay. I never heard of this person. Mm. Okay. So my message is yeah, they're here. I'm not gonna show 'em cause it has phone numbers, but that's cool. And calls. Let's see. Calls. Yep. Calls, calls are here too. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, this is but not one of the things I really liked, there were several things I liked about the Android.

(00:41:25):
One is I could see photos doesn't look like it can do that. Oh, look, I am seeing doesn't support it doesn't do group messages. Yeah. I'm seeing notifications. There's someone at my front door. My watch is charged. So Yeah, this is so does it yeah. So it is like send and receive text messages, make and receive phone calls, see contacts and iPhone notifications. So no apps can't run apps. Yeah. So you can't do like, can't see my photos, which is too bad. Bad on the phone. Yeah. And play with the phone on this screen. You can't stream at apps, which is, it's basically, it's messages is what it is. It's notifications and messages and well messages is kind of the final frontier when it comes to enter integr. Well, that's a good point. Yeah. No, you're right. You know, so it's only partial, but it's, it's, it's, it's better than nothing. I mean that's No, this is great actually. Yeah. Very happy. Yeah, that's better. Remember that if you wanna see your photos, you can install iCloud photo library. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can. That way the photos app Right? Right. Can do that one. Right. okay. Yeah, you're right. That's the biggest bridge to cross, which is interoperability with apple's iMessages. So that's cool. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, right? Right. Yeah. All right. So it works. You just saw me do it in live in, in vitro setup.

(00:42:48):
Let's see, what else? Windows 10, version 21 H two. Bye-Bye. Yeah, so bye-bye January. Bye-Bye. 2015, Terry, my stood on a stage and said, our goal is to have as many people as possible on one version of Windows 10. And in June they're gonna achieve that <laugh> because there will only be one supported version of Windows <laugh> that will be at Windows 10 version 22 H two, which will be the only supported version of Windows 10, not including L T S C for normal people or whatever. Oh, I'm so glad I don't do the radio show anymore. Oh my God. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, there's so many people on, you know, 1809 and stuff. Yeah. None of that's supported. It's all gone. I lo I love bringing up an old Windows 10 computer and just seeing the bizarre weirdness of, you know, version whatever it was.

(00:43:36):
Yeah. All the, yeah. Just remember 1809 <laugh>. Yep. And what is it? I'm so glad it's gone. What a year. Yeah. So that's kind of interesting. But yeah, next June, I don't remember the exact date, but sometime in June is, you know, I can just look, I guess support for 21 H two is ending June 13. That June 13 is past Tuesday. Right. So I've that mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that day is etched into my brain. So if you make sense, I'm still using Windows 10. You will be up, get to 22 H two. Yep. No, they're gonna manually upgrade you. They're gonna, or you'll be at 22 H two, you will be, they're really gonna push Windows 11 on you if your computer is supported by Windows 11 two. Okay. Full screen ads. So if you were using one of Steve's Steve Gibson's little apps like in control mm-hmm.

(00:44:22):
<Affirmative> you might wanna just let your computer know that you're no longer in control. Oh, Microsoft is <laugh>, right? It's covered for Nice try, but no, yeah. This is really not any great reasons I can think of for someone to stick on an older version of Windows 10. No, no, no. I don't think there are big compatibility issues No. With any of those releases, or certainly not the past several. I don't, I don't remember 21 H two explicitly, but I, I would say the last three or four have been incredibly minor updates. You know, 22 H two was a nothing burger. I mean, there was nothing there at all. Yeah. So going from 21 H two to 20 Yeah. Do it issues. What could go wrong? Come on. People do it. Do it win. And we, we only

Richard Campbell (00:45:10):
Need a couple more versions of Windows 11 before basically does everything when 10 does

Paul Thurrott (00:45:14):
Anyway. Yeah. I think that's, we're almost there part the plan. It's like you just kind of lose, wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Windows 11 does not yet do everything Windows 10 in, right? No, that's true. What, what, what, for example, you can, you can't move your task bar to any side of the screen, right? Oh, okay. But anything important? Well, as important to someone, every one of these things is important to someone, which is the problem. Right? So if, if it's important enough for large group of someones like right clicking the task bar and getting to task manager, they'll add that, you know, and there's some evidence, by the way, there's, they're working on moving the task bar around. I don't, I don't think we're gonna see some Windows 10 features, like the ability to add toolbar to a task bar, that kind of thing.

(00:46:04):
But they're adding grouping and icon grouping in the taser is coming sometime soon. Other, you know, there's other regressions. There's lot. When Windows 11 first ship there were tons of them, right? And now they're slowly, Hey, hey, hey. What's going on over there? <Laugh>, right? You can't see that <laugh>? Yeah. I forgot that. This is a family friendly show. What do you mean? It wasn't on camera, but I forgot that it's part of the Zoom. It's just my wife. It's all right. We're married. We can do that. No, dare you. <Laugh>. Hi Lisa. Come on. Come on, come on. Come. Now that, now that you're on camera, you, you, so that they know what, it's too late now. They know what they missed. They know what I love. They just wanted to say hi. That's all I had just had a quick question.

(00:46:47):
You have a question? What's your question? No, no, no. For you. Oh, for me. Oh, okay. Don't worry about it. You gotta go <laugh>. Sorry. You know, my wife can't come in and give me a kiss during, in the show. Well, she could, I would go off, I would switch the camera off if you want. Of course we'd be able to see it though. Not, not the people at home. Yeah, yeah. The you people in our home audience. <Laugh>. That's getting a different version. I, I didn't mean to break the fourth wall or whatever that was. You broke the fourth wall, man. <Laugh>. Everybody's saying. Hi, Lisa. Yeah. continue. I'm sorry. Were you, were you done with whatever? I, yeah, neither we've all gone <laugh>. We're a little just crazy here. Yeah, I would like to do an ad. We like girls in our club. I don't know. I know. No girls allowed.

Leo Laporte (00:47:29):
Did you see the sign? Can't come in Our Tree

Leo Laporte (00:47:32):
House. <Laugh>, our show today is brought to you by Cash Fly. And you know, when I say that, I say it and mean it quite literally. Cuz Cash Fly is what we call a cdn. It's our C CDN Content Delivery Network. And you know, it's so important. It has been for more than a decade. When we first started twit back in the s <laugh> I guess it was 2005, 2006 we're in 18 or 18th year. Now in the early days it was like a website and you would download for the website. That failed almost instantly. And it, I don't know if you remember, I was begging people, I was saying, could you please seed a bit Torrent for us? Cuz I, otherwise no one can download the show. That's when Matt Levine, one of the founders of Cash Fly, came to me and said, Leo, Leo, Leo, let me help.

(00:48:18):
And the rest is history. We've been literally using Cash Fly when you get the show everywhere. But YouTube, if you get it from our website, if you subscribe to the RSS feed, it's coming to you video or audio from Cash Line. And I gotta tell you, that's really important to us. It's kind of infrastructure. Maybe you don't see, but if it didn't work, you would sure know about it. We would sure know about it. And I have to say, in all this time, more than 12, 13 years, cashflow has been flawless. Video is important. Viewers are not gonna wait around. If they come to the site and they press the play button and, and they have to buffer, it's, it's not gonna, they're not gonna do it. Shoppers abandoned carts on e-commerce sites that are slow. You've done it. I'm sure you go, that's, I don't care that much.

(00:49:05):
Gamers will leave bad reviews if the latency is high. Paul does that all the time, Paul. Little hint. It's not the latency, it's you. But if, if you're, you know, going around <laugh> <laugh>, if you're, you know, you're, you're playing your game and you come around a corner and you don't see what's around the corner until it's too late. That's not good. That's not good. That's why cash flow is so important to people who put out games. People with their win websites and shopping carts. People like us podcasters, customers these days now expect a flawless experience when they're engaging with your content. I've, on every, any device, anytime, anywhere in the world, cashflow has been doing this longer than almost anybody since 1999. They have had the track record for high performing, ultra reliable content delivery. That's, that's more than 20 years. It's 24 years.

(00:50:02):
Cash flow was the first for instance to use tcp anycast. That was back in 2002. That's an innovation. Other CDNs are just catching up with quality of experience. That's the metric, the single most important metric for us, serving content for cash fly. If you're serving content simultaneously to a large distributed audience on a global scale, your delivery stack actually can be your secret weapon. With cash fly, you get low latency video streaming that can deliver to more than a a million concurrent users. What's unbelievable, lightning fast gaming that delivers downloads faster, gives you zero lag, glitches or outages. Mobile content optimization that offers automatic and simple image optimization on your site so that your site loads faster on any device. You know, whether it's a phone or a big old computer. Cash Lies the only CDN built for throughput, and they specifically focus on delivering rich media content up to 10 times faster than traditional delivery methods.

(00:51:04):
That certainly was the experience we had up to 30% faster than their major CDNs. And I love cash flow because they work with you when you first set up your, in fact, I would recommend you go right now to cash flow.com and do that first. Talk about, you know, here's my usage, here's what I'm worried about. They're very flexible. You could set up a contract that fits your needs. You'll never pay for service overlap again. You'll get flexible month to month billing, as long as you need it. If you you'll, if you decide, okay, and I think we got this now, you can get discounts for fixed terms. Once you understand and you're happy and they're happy, design your own contract when you switch to Cash Life. That was huge for us. With more than 3,500 clients, over 80 countries, they're all over the world.

(00:51:48):
Organizations consistently choose cash life for scalability, reliability, unrivaled performance. And we know that because we've been using Cash Fly. When do you remember you, were you even here Lisa, when we started using Cashle? Of course you were. Yes. So this was 2009 maybe. I think it was eight. 2008 nine. So 15, 15, 14, 15 years. We love Cash Fly. You will too. Learn how you can get your first month free@cashfly.com. C A C H E F L Y. You've heard me say that a few times. Cash line.com. All right, back we go. I need to make out with my wife. So if you guys would just take over and do the show for a little bit, I literally would've had my wife come in here and make out with me. But she's on a work call, so I <laugh> and Richard, you got nothing but Diamond Merchants where you are so miles away, <laugh>.

(00:52:40):
I was literally like, and you were, you were jealous, weren't you? That's hysterical. <Laugh>. That's hysterical. Let's talk about AI and being chat and all that briefly. Well this thing, you know Microsoft, what was it? February, it feels like a million years ago, but they've updated their Bing chat experience dozens and dozens of times. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they've been available inside different products, including Microsoft Edge, Skype. We really don't talk too much about nor should you I, yep. <Laugh>. But actually, you know, in the early days when you had to get on a wait list, you could use, you could interact with the chat bot in Skype without waiting, like it was just available, you know, so that was like an early way to kind of get in if you wanted to experience it. So the latest update is just a bunch of stuff.

(00:53:23):
I mean, I don't know that this is like huge, but chat history, which is something people have been asking for. For example, when I use Dolly, have it make images. Obviously it saves all of the images you created. So in the same way, the chat bott will now save all the conversations. Yeah, that's funny cuz that's something Open AI Chat has, you know, chat GT is always done. Yeah. In fact, they're, they now people complain they have a switch that says don't do that because of the concerning of the privacy. Privacy concerns. Right. I think I, yeah, I was gonna say a lot. I think a lot of the embarrassing questions we might ask in ai, we would like to see that. I didn't realize Bing didn't do that. That's interesting. Yeah, it didn't before, but they've always, they, they've said maybe not from the beginning, but from early on that was an early bit of feedback.

(00:54:04):
So they've added that a Richard Chat experience meeting. Now there's more visual search results that will occur in chat conversations. Those are gonna be videos and graph graphics graphs yeah. Et cetera. So that's all cool. To me, in some ways, the more interesting bit here is not this destination that is bing.com, but rather that this functionality will be available wherever you are. Right. So they're adding Bing chatbot capabilities to Swift Key, which is their virtual keyboard and iOS and Android, they've added it already to Edge on the desktop. They're adding more of it to edge on mobile and then also to they're enhancing the capabilities in Skype. So for example, if you're go into Skype today, you could, you'll have to add, you'll have to add it, but it will ask you if you want to add the Bing AI as a, like a user, like a fake user. You can now inter interact with the Bing Chat bot in group chats. So it could be two or more human beings all asking questions of the same chat bot. So that's kinda cool.

Richard Campbell (00:55:03):
That's interesting.

Leo Laporte (00:55:04):
Yeah.

Richard Campbell (00:55:06):
Yeah. I wonder if you were chatting to each other in that context. Is the chat bot gonna intercede every so often? Maybe it's the mediator.

Leo Laporte (00:55:14):
Yeah. Let's see if we can get this thing to interrupt <laugh>. So it's like, guys, guys don't argue you're both wrong. Yeah.

Richard Campbell (00:55:21):
Yeah. What does it do when you say, Hey, I wasn't talking to you.

Leo Laporte (00:55:24):
Right. <laugh>? I don't know. Well, probably the same way that like, you know, Siri or the Google Assistant. I, I, I, most of my interactions with those things are me selling, telling it to shut up. I wasn't talking to you. You don't be rude about it. You know, that kinda thing. So I, I bing is probably used to this kind of behavior. So <laugh>, I'm sure they'll be okay with it. And then just before we started the show they announced Microsoft, they announced that they're removing the wait list. I'm sorry, that's not what that is. I'm sorry. They announced rather that they are allowing an authenticated chat access on Bing, on bing@bing.com. Meaning you don't have to sign in to your Microsoft account. So this is some semis similar to what they did with Widgets and Windows 11. Right. You can now access it without having to sign in with a Microsoft account.

Richard Campbell (00:56:13):
I'm little surprised that they did that.

Leo Laporte (00:56:14):
Like Yeah. I think this is about, well, okay, I'm gonna be cynical. I think this is about keeping the user uptick going. Right?

Richard Campbell (00:56:23):
I think

Leo Laporte (00:56:24):
A lot of people

Richard Campbell (00:56:24):
Being able to say the largest market share number you can say.

Leo Laporte (00:56:27):
Yeah. I think a lot of people look at this thing and say, oh I I I, I heard about this in the news, it's everywhere. But I had a Microsoft account. Like,

Richard Campbell (00:56:35):
I'm not doing that. That's crazy, Chuck. Yeah. So, I mean, maybe that's literally experiment. Will it make a difference? Yep. I'm not convinced that it would, and I suspect if you compared the quality of the messaging to the unsigned in versus the signed in Interesting. You'd see a difference.

Leo Laporte (00:56:50):
It could be they're gonna limit you. I mean, you can only have five chats per session, for example. I think that Right. Bing Chatbot had some limitation like that the very, very beginning

Richard Campbell (00:56:59):
Very quickly on Yeah. Because of the cash workflow.

Leo Laporte (00:57:02):
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, this might part of it, I don't know if they're using these, oh, they must be using these conversations to kind of feed the, the demonn and, you know, see what the feedback absolutely looks like and all that stuff. So that's, it's helpful for that. But I, I really think a lot of this is about keeping momentum going.

Richard Campbell (00:57:22):
Yeah. Really this is squeezing the lemon for every drop you <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (00:57:26):
Exactly. Yep. Exactly right.

Richard Campbell (00:57:29):
<Laugh>, I do have a, I do have some shows coming up soon that are very much about how these bots were made. Okay. And just how much labor went into them to train them.

Leo Laporte (00:57:39):
Right, right.

Richard Campbell (00:57:42):
Should we talk about antitrust? Cause antitrust is fun.

Leo Laporte (00:57:45):
Yeah. This week in antitrust <laugh>, we'll talk about Microsoft's antitrust victory later in the show. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But there was al also the beginning of a defeat. We know that the EU was investigating teams integration with the office suite, Microsoft 365.

Richard Campbell (00:58:01):
This the Slack complaint.

Leo Laporte (00:58:03):
Yep, that's right. And then unrelated to that actually several complaints from EU based cloud providers. There are Cloud Aruba, I know there are some next cloud, and now something called, Nope, that's not the name of it. Nevermind. and then an in group called Cspa, <laugh>, C I S P E which is tied to Amazon a w s in case you thought this was completely on the up and up. Oh yeah. Has complained about Azure and believing that Microsoft is growing share in Europe at the expense of local companies and blah, blah, blah, whatever. So, I mean, this

Richard Campbell (00:58:41):
Could be a better product.

Leo Laporte (00:58:43):
<Laugh>, I mean, <laugh>. Yeah, I agree with you. Well, I don't know anything about these products, but I would trust Microsoft Azure before I would, you know, trust something called Aruba. But

Richard Campbell (00:58:54):
Aruba's been around a long time. They were a networking services company most of the time. So apparently they have a cloud product now. And Yeah. You know, my first instinct would say, well, how many data centers should they have? Like, what redundancy are they gonna

Leo Laporte (00:59:06):
Give for three? Oh, really. What,

Richard Campbell (00:59:07):
Yeah. What localization are they gonna give of me? Like, these are the questions. Right. And I, and I've not thought more than a market for three worldwide providers ever, really. Right, right. Just because why, you know, this, the whole point of cloud is scale and Yes. And more to make better. Especially, you know, the, the dangerous part here is are you gonna convince the EU that offering more than virtual machines in the cloud is anti-competitive

Leo Laporte (00:59:36):
<Laugh>, right? Yep. <laugh> never know with the eu, do you? That's the funny thing. I know, right? I know.

Richard Campbell (00:59:42):
Yeah. And this idea that it's an informal inquiry. I love that term,

Leo Laporte (00:59:46):
Which is, that's the thing, tax, we're just, we're asking questions. We're not that such Always starts, isn't it? That's how it starts. Just

Richard Campbell (00:59:53):
Asking. It's,

Leo Laporte (00:59:55):
You know, given it's colo. One more question. Yeah, yeah, exactly. One more question. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Alright. Before you leave here's the real question. <Laugh>. given the regulatory climate and the way Microsoft has worked with regulators in the eu, but other things which we'll talk about later I suspect that the company will work ProAct proactively to answer these concerns and offer some level of integration with these companies to, so do something to, you know, cuz they, I I don't know that they can just say, Hey, look, we can't do, you know, we can't do business here, obviously is not the answer. So do you think that initially companies when they heard this were kind of like standoffish, but now seeing how aggressive the EU has been you know, Microsoft certainly has learned a lesson, right? They're gonna be you know, much more anxious about pro, you know, giving 'em some outs. And of course, look what they did for the this is thing and that didn't help in the uk Yeah. But no one, so that's the thing though. No one from the EU complained about the blizzard. In fact, that's EU just said go ahead. Right. Didn't they Right. That the, the we'll get to this, but the, the, but

Richard Campbell (01:01:05):
Nobody complained in the UK either. Those guys,

Leo Laporte (01:01:08):
The say the, even the other cloud guys said, no, no, don't have a problem. No, no. Well, right, but in this case, companies did complain. So think about some of the, the big EU cases, right? The Intel thing, which was complaints from a m d the Spotify case against Apple, right? The, the way these things start is some company, yeah. With EU assets are based in eu. We'll go to the east, the European Commission and say, Hey this gigantic us company, it's always us company is beating us up. They're behaving unfairly, illegally. We think we should investigate, right? And they do this little informal thing, and then they do a formal thing, and then they declare that they're guilty of something. And then there's, you know, it goes, it takes years and years and years. But the, the getting from complaint to investigation a pretty low bar in the eu, it seems to me.

(01:02:01):
So this was, that's the way it, because I mean, I, I I would say the cloud market is pretty competitive between Microsoft, Amazon, which is number one, they don't care about those companies. They don't care about those companies. They care about his little EU guys. This was O V H Cloud Aruba, which is is that Aruba Networks? Aruba? Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and Next cloud, which is weird cuz that used to be kind of an open source cloud. And I guess they've kind of gone into business and then an industry group tied to aws, which should send up some warning flags. Frankly, they, because AWS is dominant. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Investigate them. So, but it's, here we are, it's May, so these guys complained in November, they were the fourth group of the four, you, the, the three companies to complain.

(01:02:51):
And they're acting, you know, in this one way the EU can move pretty quick. It's really from here on out, it gets into a slog. But I, I, I really feel, first of all, what this complaint as, as written is very vague to me. It says Microsoft is abusing its access to business sensitive information belonging to cloud firms. It has commercial dealings with, in other words, Microsoft is partnering with these companies, EU and a trust enforce enforcers wanna know where the Microsoft then leverages that confidential information to compete with cloud service providers. Okay. <laugh>. So this is kind of a classic business dealing issue, you know? I think this gets solved by Microsoft promising to never do that again. Not that we ever did it in the first place. And, you know, well, they, they certainly were accused of it, you know, in the nineties with embracing what it was, it embracing devourer.

(01:03:45):
So, I, it's funny, Apple's recently been accused of the same thing. Wall Street Journal had been an article about Apple does this, you know, I just said this to Brad today. This is how, you know, Microsoft has come full circle. This is one you'll know, and you guys will both appreciate this. Microsoft, in many ways is acting like it did in the nineties, right? It's this abusive monopolist, it's been beating up on its competitors, et cetera. The, the, the final stroke here will be when it is uncovered that Microsoft has created secret APIs only it can use <laugh>. That it does not allow its competitors to do, to access whatever it is, windows or Azure or Microsoft 360, whatever it might be. Right? Like, it, it's like we are literally rewriting the original Microsoft playbook. That's how you'll know, that's all. You know, it's just we're, we're back.

(01:04:29):
You know? So we'll see. But, and it's not a dashing off. It's totally new people Yes. On new page. Yep. That's what I mean. Right? Exactly. We're back baby. Someone, someone found a little black book in a desk and they were like, guys, look at this <laugh>, he, this is cla it says, planned for world domination. It ain't done until Lotus Don't Run. I don't know what Lotus is, but we should do, we should do that <laugh>, you know, that's hysterical. I don't know what Lotus is, but, but I think we should never heard of that, but yeah, that's a good idea. Oh, they're dead already. Nevermind. <laugh>. Yeah. So I, we'll see. But very interesting. Okay. And then blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, I already talked about this. So yeah. This is already, I I don't know why I stuck it here. Exactly. But, you know, Google marketing AI during Google io is very much like what we've seen with the cloud of Microsoft in the past. And I think we're gonna see, again with AI at Microsoft build, although I, I have great hope that we're gonna see. I just don't

Richard Campbell (01:05:26):
Imagine the keynotes being that different, right? Like Google Keynote, like build Keynote.

Leo Laporte (01:05:31):
Oh, you'll be able to make the same video. Mics at this time. It will be Microsoft people saying ai, ai, ai, the super cuts are always fun. Ai, ai, ai, ai. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yep. Yep. Yeah, there's already a Google. I would like a little credit for my headline about this though. Ai ai io. Come on. Anybody That was ai, ai, it's off to work. I go AI

Richard Campbell (01:05:51):
Io,

Leo Laporte (01:05:55):
It's off to io. I go, it's off to io. I go mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. Okay. You want to go to the developer section of the show? Yes, yes, yes. So we already talked about the first Russ code showing up at the Windows Colonel. So sometime fairly recently there was a Security Con Microsoft Security Conference in Israel. I think we might have talked about this last week. And he was saying, you know, sometime soon it's gonna show up. So Mark Rossovich tweeted, Hey, it, it's, it's here. It, it's in some version of the inside our preview program. It's not, it's not in stable yet, and it's very small bits of it, right? So but the system files that have rust code in it will be noted by the underscore rx. Actually, I love it that it's Win 32, if anything need to be rewritten and rust, it's that, well, they're not gonna rewrite the entire WIN 32 api, but although I, by the way, there are 30 parties on that exact thing and full that's, you know, yeah.

(01:06:52):
Yeah. Wow. That's just little bits of it, but, oh, okay. Yeah. Cuz look, but they'll get there. The, the full base is 3.4. Yeah. Megabytes and the Rust code 10 killers. David Weston, I think was the guy, the guy from Microsoft who did that talk. If you go back and watch that video, which I do recommend the part about Rust, which is near the end, he was comparing two things. K Ls, which is a term I've not heard in for like, since IBM in the nineties, old thousands of old school of lines of code, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and also just sheer code size, K L O C. I get it. Okay. Klos, right? K Yeah. You don't, that's not a, that's an old, that's an old term. But and IBM used to give promotions based on K ls. Terrible. That was terrible deal.

(01:07:32):
Like, you bad terrible it the stupidest thing in the world. Yeah. Yep. So but he was, anyway, he was talking about Klos and he was saying that he explained, so Java, by the way, <laugh>, well even look whenever you thought about Microsoft, Microsoft in the early 1990s was like, no, no. The, the goal is not to write more lines of code. That's stupid. You know, like, so even, even that company at that time knew that was bad. But the point of this is, when you look at adding Russ to the Windows kernel into anything, the, the goals are multiple. Like one of the, one of the, the things you're looking at are multifold. Like, first of all, does it run at the same speed or better? Right? That's gotta you, you don't want it to be more secure and a lot slower. So apparently Rust runs full speed is great.

(01:08:15):
How much more code does it require to do the same thing? Actually there is more Rust code, I don't remember the exact number, it's in this talk somewhere, but somewhere between 28% more lines of code. That was why Klo came up. The rust equivalent of the c pla slash c plus plus APIs. It is, they're in fact, bigger. Yeah. Cuz Rust has a lot of static typing and Yeah. Memory information and, and yeah. So some people look at this Well, yeah, and, and I don't mean your comparison, but I mean, some, some people have said like this little, the bit of it that they're, that they've done over in Rust is like smaller than the version that was in C but it, it's, well maybe when it's compiled there's, you know, there's not necessarily, yeah. It might be a correlation between lines of code and compiled size. A lot of that lines of code stuff is just a hint to the compiler, you know? Yep, exactly. Yep. And that, that, I was gotta say that less eloquently, but yes, <laugh>, that is basically what I was getting at is that there are more lines of source code, but the file sizes tend to be smaller. Right. That's good. I, I know you'll be talking about this with Mark.

Richard Campbell (01:09:21):
I wonder about the politics of this. Is that a Microsoft? Absolutely. I, I, you know, how do you get new developers onto Windows? Yeah. How do you get the old developers to modernize, right? Like bringing a new language in is great piece pressure.

Leo Laporte (01:09:35):
You know, I

Richard Campbell (01:09:35):
Remember it's almost guaranteed it's gonna be young developers that are used to, yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:09:39):
I remember at Google io about five or six years ago when they announced and we're going to give full support to Kotlin, and there was practically a standing ovation. Oh, cuz, well, cuz Java <laugh>. But, but developers, you know, especially young, new developers are thrilled about Rust. They, this is absolutely mm-hmm. <Affirmative> from their point of view, the right way to go. And actually as a user of Windows, I think it's the right way to go. It's gonna be me more memory hardened memory safe. This is a good, this is a good thing. Mm-Hmm. Means fewer experts. I'm sure we talked about this whenever that was last week probably, but it's not like they're gonna write the rewrite the entire colonel number. But I would You can certainly look at it. I would too, but I, but let's be realistic. Yeah. But you could look at this source code base and say, look, where are the obvious attack services? Like the, the most common problem, well, 1 32 is a very good place to start <laugh>. Well, I I was going more for like buffer overflow memory attacks or whatever. Yeah. That's the problem. Win 32 is full of that crap. And many discover that. Let lemme help you with that sentence. Win 32 was full of crap. Crap. Yes, for sure. <Laugh>. cause that's the oldest part of the code base, isn't it? Among the oldest parts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. Win it's worse than that.

Richard Campbell (01:10:56):
Wouldn't great opportunity to rehabilitate.

Leo Laporte (01:10:58):
Exactly. Microsoft, Microsoft had a, an opportunity in 1993 to write a modern API for the then new NT system. And instead of doing that, said, you know what, we're gonna make it easy on the people legacy using the Windows Legacy API in 16 Big Legacy, which is gonna bring it all forward and, you know, make a couple of change, a couple of energy sizes or whatever. And it was, I, I guess I get it, but it was a huge mistake and they've been paying for it ever since, you know? Yeah. They should have modernized it then and they would've still had to do it later again. But we're stuck with code that was created in the mid 1980s. You know, this is really old stuff. This has historically been the, the big problem. Yeah.

Richard Campbell (01:11:38):
Yeah. Maybe some of those guys get to retire now. Cause these new post taking it over <laugh>,

Leo Laporte (01:11:43):
They can go to the golf course. So the Coball developers, I imagine this will be a big part of your conversation with Markovich tomorrow next Wednesday when you talk to him. And

Richard Campbell (01:11:53):
Yeah, quite possibly. I mean, it's a lot of directions to go in there. Mark's heavily immers That's true in Azure. True. That's

Leo Laporte (01:11:58):
True. You know?

Richard Campbell (01:11:58):
Yeah. There's, there's tons of important things to talk about. Yeah. And we half an hour together.

Leo Laporte (01:12:03):
Yeah. I mean, one of the things I I, you may have a better understanding of this, but the, the core of Windows is based on the core of Azure, sort of like that, that core team is, is a team. It's not two teams. Right. I mean, so it's possible that a lot of this kernel work they're doing in Windows as we think of it, will also benefit Azure.

Richard Campbell (01:12:23):
Maybe that's exactly why they're doing Rust, because this will be code that's gonna run, I

Leo Laporte (01:12:27):
Think so inside

Richard Campbell (01:12:27):
Of where it's gonna be attacked in a different way.

Leo Laporte (01:12:30):
He would know that, he would know. I mean, obviously he's a CTO o manager, but, but he would, you know, that's may explain why he even tweeted about it occurring. I mean, you know. Yeah, I know. I'm sure he keeps a foot in that world, but, you know, this is probably benefiting Azure as well.

Richard Campbell (01:12:44):
Yeah, no, he was definitely the catalyst for Rust inside of Microsoft too. He brought it up ages ago.

Leo Laporte (01:12:50):
You know, what his best, so I, I told you, I, I've told people stories about Mark over the years, but one of my favorite stories about him was that he told me and this was years ago, we were at some industry event. We were just walking around and he was telling me how about how he had gone to the Linux community early on and said, look, you have all these problems in your kernel and you gotta fix 'em because you're gonna run into scalability issues. And he gave him a list of like 20 things that were wrong with it, and they told him to go f himself, and they didn't need a guy from Microsoft. This is back in the Lennox is a cancer day still. And they wanted nothing to do with this guy. And then he said, and then they literally implemented every single one of my recommendations over the next two Lennox Colonel versions. <Laugh>. I was like, nice <laugh>, you know? Yeah. Just a smart,

Richard Campbell (01:13:32):
Smart guy.

Leo Laporte (01:13:33):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, we don't need your help, buddy. Thanks. Like, all right. Everyone got the list? All right. Let's <laugh> let's get first implement this. There is a great section in this Steve Jobs book makes something wonderful. A exchange of emails between Steve when he was at Next and Intel an intel engineers who's in charge of the graphics code in the micro code in the processor. This is back in the mid nineties. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> said, Hey, we would love to talk to you because you've got a lot of graphics knowledge over there. Next, we would love to talk to you and get some, some input as we design this chip. And Steve says, well, yeah, good idea, but <laugh> how much you gonna pay me for our proprietary knowledge, which was hard earned. And it goes back and forth and the guy says, finally, Intel engineer says, well, okay, fine.

(01:14:20):
We, we we're not gonna pay you for this. We just thought you might want to help the world. And then, and then, you know, like you talk about so much. Yeah. And then Andy Grove writes to Steve, this is really a great exchange. I would read the whole thing as it was very long. But he writes to Steve and says, Hey, Steve, you know, when you asked me, you know, I, I volunteered information to help you with next. We're just, we're we're just asking. And I understand it's not as valuable perhaps as the graphics code, but, but we're just, you know, we feel like it's good for the computing world. If, if you would just share this information with us, to which Steve replies, you're right. I've changed my mind 180 degrees. Have your engineer call me. I'll tell him whatever he wants.

(01:15:02):
Wow. Which is ama it's not the Steve Jobs we think of. It's a great, well, it, it would, it, but it took someone like Andy Grove. Yeah. Had it Andy Industry legends and killed him <laugh>, and said, Steve, I helped you. I didn't survive the Holocaust so I could deal with you, idiot. Yeah. Could you just <laugh>, you know, he says the final email from Steve Jobs to Andy Grove. Let's see if I can mm-hmm. <Affirmative> pull it up here, says, Andy, I have many faults, but one of them is not in gratitude. And I do agree with you that in the long run, these things balance out. Therefore, I have changed my position 180 degrees. This is October, 1995. And we will freely help the engineer make his processors much better for 3D graphics. Have 'em call me. I'll arrange for a meeting as soon as appropriate technical info.

(01:15:46):
And then it ended up as win G for Windows 95, <laugh>. Oh, I shouldn't say next. It was Pixar. This also was running Pixar at the time, and Pixar did in fact have a lot of hardware that they were making graphics hardware. Right, right, right, right. So what a great exchange. I mean, it's several pages in this book. You know, next step could have been the UI for, I don't, it would've been OS two, but for ib, IBM was, had license it. They actually paid the license it mm-hmm. And never used it. Right. but Pink, they, they, that could have happened. Yeah. Yeah. Remember Pink? That was the yeah, sure. Apple ibm collaboration, Motorola, right? Or yeah, I can't remember. Called. Yeah. This is this book track of these names. Trans, what was the name of those?

(01:16:28):
They were companies. Transa. You're talking about Trans No, no, not Transmit. No, no. Not Transmit Metta. Oh, transmitter was the CPU company that Linux Volz worked for. Huh. I don't remember. I don't, that's amazing. What's the book Make something wonderful? Steve Jobs in His Own World. This is a, the Steve Jobs archive, which is online, just released this. And, and thank you very much again to Jameson who loves Windows Weekly, but sent me this book. So there you go. Go figure. All right. Intelligent, intelligent, intelligent. Thank you. That's what, that's what was doing. Pink. Right? Intelligent. But yeah. There was another one too. I, I'm losing track of the, the talent was the ibm apple was the I the OS thing. Yeah. Yeah. You've got a good memory for the good old days. Mm. I'm losing it. But isn't it amazing now that that's ancient, that's basically ancient history.

Richard Campbell (01:17:23):
Ancient history. Yeah. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:17:24):
It is

Richard Campbell (01:17:24):
Truly.

Leo Laporte (01:17:25):
I think the, the stuff that didn't happen is in many ways more fascinating than the stuff that did the, the direct, like that next step thing I mentioned, next step, IBM could have adopted next step, and I guess we'll just call it, say, put it in OS two. I don't remember the exact plan. And that would've, that might've changed things, you know? Yeah.

(01:17:41):
Talent was a joint venture. IBM and Apple, 1992, HP announced two years later would buy a 15% stake in it. T o West was to be based on Apple's object-oriented operating system. Code named Pink, but later disbanded, right. Company dissolved five years later. There's so many stories like that in Silicon Valley. Yeah. I think, Paul, as you and I get older, that's gonna be our our role sort of in the world is to, oh my God, contextualize what we're seeing today. I'm talking about just sitting on a porch and saying, remember when checkers over the Pickle Barrel <laugh>? Yeah. You kids don't understand. Yeah. All right. What else? Any other developer news? Yes. So it's kind of came out of nowhere, but Microsoft just announced that they're gonna be making visual a, a visual refresh. Ooh. For Visual Studio. They're kind of core ide. It's the first time they've done a, a change this big since 2012. Richard, remember

Richard Campbell (01:18:47):
15, I would argue. Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:18:48):
Okay. Remember the all caps <laugh> portion of Visual Student,

Richard Campbell (01:18:51):
We're not gonna talk about that. Wait

Leo Laporte (01:18:52):
A minute. Sorry. Sorry. <Laugh> variables had to be all caps. No, no, no. The menus caps, the menus are all caps. Oh my gosh. Because it was kind of like the Windows eight style, I guess. I think that was the point. I that was awful stupid. Yeah. I think that only lost

Richard Campbell (01:19:06):
One version. Fatman. They were able to make a studio 2013 where they took it back out again. <Laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:19:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, which by the way, I'm sure got a standing ovation as well. Absolutely. You know, so the funny thing about the visual refresh here is if you look at the images and they put up a bunch of images, like, this is what we're thinking, and we just wanna get some feedback, you know you, you run into some interesting issues where you wanna add padding more white space to make it more attractive. But also this is a developer tool. You don't want it to stretch off the edge of the screen. And, you know, people complain about stuff like that. I, I, I don't think it looks that different, frankly. I, I didn't see any

Richard Campbell (01:19:40):
Major. No, it's very minor, I think.

Leo Laporte (01:19:42):
Yeah, I think so. But, but I think that's all you can do to something like visual.

Richard Campbell (01:19:45):
I had a developer friend of mine send me that that blog post and go, why is this a post?

Leo Laporte (01:19:51):
I know. Like,

Richard Campbell (01:19:52):
I think if you did the change, nobody would've known.

Leo Laporte (01:19:55):
Yeah. Well, I don't know the guys who use Visual Studio very particular as Oh, yeah.

Richard Campbell (01:20:00):
And just wa watch what happens when you make their menus all uppercase <laugh>.

Leo Laporte (01:20:04):
That was the craziest, oh boy. Oh boy. Everything had to be Fisher Price with Windows eight. That was, you know, that was the <laugh>. Yeah, that was the, the marching orders. And then we talked a little bit about build 2023 earlier, I think on air. If not go to my build.microsoft.com, sign in register if you haven't. And you can look at all the sessions. And ki one of the neat things you can do is kind of put some aside. They, I don't know why they do it this way, but they, the language they use is a backpack. So you can add sessions to your backpack. I'd like to just add 'em to my calendar, but whatever. Yeah. And you don't have to watch 'em live. They'll all be available on online later as well. But there's some interesting stuff. You know, I think Leo mentioned the the keynote or keynotes that will happen. There's a session on day two with Panos and a bunch of people about Microsoft 365 slash Windows, which I think is interesting. Lots of Windows content. In fact, I found more Windows content I wanted to see in this show than I found dot net eight content, which was kind of surprising to me.

Richard Campbell (01:21:04):
Well.Net eight saw till the fall, so there's not that much.

Leo Laporte (01:21:07):
Yeah. Well, but this is the time to kind of, yeah, okay. Fair enough. Yeah, that's true.

Richard Campbell (01:21:11):
I, I mean, I don't know why their whole marketing campaign wasn't, Hey, like chat G B T. You can make one for your company because those talks are in there. And I'm very interested to see who will, what are you talking about? How much data private am I gonna need? Yeah. Make me make a private co-pilot.

Leo Laporte (01:21:27):
Yeah. I'm hoping just to make a Throt co-pilot that just makes fun of you when you talk to it. And there you go. It's kind of brutal. Like I am. I think that would be fun. <Laugh> <laugh> something. I dunno. So anyway, that's, so, so, we'll obviously we're gonna be talking a lot about Build next week. I'm really, and then probably the week after too, because some of this stuff might not, we might not know everything as of Wednesday, but the big keynote is Wednesday, right before the show, so prepare for that. Yeah. And we'll, b broadcast it Tuesday and Wednesday. Yeah. Right before our show. I'm very excited about this. Oh, good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I hope I don't get let down. Paul <laugh>. I didn't suggest <laugh> <laugh>. I hope you told me you were doing it. I, I won't be disappointed in you, Paul. Paul, listen, I, if there's anything I can guarantee you will eventually be disappointed by me, <laugh> I'll

Richard Campbell (01:22:23):
I'll prep, I'll prep a few Flo and Fauna whiskey conversation. There

Leo Laporte (01:22:27):
You go.

Richard Campbell (01:22:28):
If you get to the end of the keynote, and we have no Windows Weekly, cuz I don't know. Then we can talk whiskey for an hour.

Leo Laporte (01:22:33):
Whiskey, we've just been like an hour of each of us going. Guys, guys, guys, listen, listen. And I hope it's okay, Richard, but I have instructed our editors to take all of those whiskey segments Oh, nice. And put 'em out individually. I think there's nine of them. Something like that. And put 'em out individually. On eight. Yeah, well, on YouTube.

Richard Campbell (01:22:50):
Eight for the Scottish Whiskey. And then we,

Leo Laporte (01:22:52):
Well, I think it's gonna be an ongoing YouTube Yeah. Series. Like a series. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great idea. So that'll be on our regular TWIT feed, which is youtube.com/twi.

Richard Campbell (01:23:01):
Awesome.

Leo Laporte (01:23:02):
Fun. I hope that's okay with you. I can't listen, so good. Probably. Yeah, I'm sure I've said this, but I, I literally, I have to drink Wink whiskey on Wednesday nights now. Thank you for that. Mm-Hmm. And I, we wa my wife and I w walk every morning, and I literally tell her something about Whiskey <laugh> that I learned from you. <Laugh>. I, it's, it's, it's re it's ridiculous. You know, Richard says <laugh>, that PT flavor was an accident. It's like anything else in life. Like, if you find a guy who's really good as an electrician, you hold onto that person. You bet. You always call them back. Yes. Have people you trust about certain things, you know, whatever it is. I mean, Richard is a go-to guy for a lot of things, but one of them is definitely whiskey. Oh. Everything I know about whiskey, I've learned from Richard.

(01:23:49):
I mean, not even just from that series, but from going way back. Oh my God. The first time he appeared probably on the show when event, which was probably a build yeah. Yeah. I think Carl might have been there as well. Mary Jo was there for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And then you guys came in the studio and we had a tasting, we had AOR and I had it for first time, the first time I had aor. I have been buying that regularly ever since that show. So whenever that was, I have been a regular customer of AOR and I've been drinking Angels, Evett Envy ever since. See? Yeah. Really. Awesome. So thank you. We appreciate it, Richard.

Richard Campbell (01:24:22):
Oh, we're welcome. I, I'll admit I get a message or two each week asking about a whiskey of something. Oh, yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:24:28):
Bet.

Richard Campbell (01:24:29):
But should I have $200 just spend on my, for my friend? What do you think?

Leo Laporte (01:24:34):
By the way, speaking, that's a very, oh, my thing of Mary Jo, I did ask her if she would join us for either one of those keynotes, and she said she's gonna be so busy writing it up for her new job that she won't be able to, is it, what is it? Micro for directions. Yeah, micro mic Directions, directions on M Microsoft. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, she's an analyst now and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So she's better than us. Leo, I think is what she's trying to say. It's okay. I think she's right. It's okay. I think that's been clear from day one. <Laugh>.

Richard Campbell (01:25:00):
Okay. I'm ne I'm not gonna argue with that.

Leo Laporte (01:25:02):
I just, I kind of was hoping. I think she always kind of has been. Really? Yeah. Directions on microsoft.com mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. She will have, she, so if you go to the blog, which is probably that you URL slash blog. She writes the blog up there, if you Yeah. Well, she's their editor-in-chief, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So she's the, she's the boss. She does the briefings and all of that. Yeah. There she is. Look at that. By the way, that's a picture in the Twitch studio. That's the Windows Weekly <laugh>. That's a, that's a Windows Weekly Yep. Live event, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. It's Microsoft. It's, that's okay. And there's the blog. Mary Jo Foley delivers early intelligence on new developments in Microsoft enterprise. It, we miss you Mary Jo. We wanted to get you on the keynote, but I understand she's busy. We'll get her on the show. Yeah. We'll do something. You guys still have a great relationship right now mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. And we're thrilled as cheerleader.

Richard Campbell (01:25:53):
She's gonna have something to promote and she's gonna want to be a <laugh>. Exactly. I'll have her run, run after She'll

Leo Laporte (01:25:58):
Come crawling back. Like, they, she would just write a book. We'd have a, we'd have a, in the, you know, I did done everything I could to get to write in the book. Did everything you could. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. I am now realizing I've been looking around this book makes something wonderful. Steve Jobs in Own His Own Words is an e-book is available for free on the website. That's right. Steve Job Archive. But they never sold a printed copy. They printed. Yeah. So actually something like a hundred for, for friends and family. So Jameson, I am now even, even more so actually people have been printing them. And I, and I believe they've been trying to shut that down. I, I think this is what was distributed. And I'm thinking Jameson is probably some, well, then that's Fancy Collector's Edition. You should probably never give away, but although I, I, I felt like that was for the three of us.

(01:26:49):
So I don't know. Do I get it for like the first No, <laugh> Your Windows people <laugh>? Yeah. I, we can, we can share it. I'll, I'll we'll do it like a library book. I'll put a little thing in the back and you Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>. No, it's, it's really No, this is, there's like this is actually Embo a Polaroid embossed onto the cover. Oh, okay. They're selling on eBay for like a thousand bucks. Oh, maybe that's what they were trying to shut down. People were selling it on eBay. Maybe that's what I was thinking of. Yeah. So, thank you, Jameson. Now I'm really clumped as it were. Yeah. It's nice. Now, in order to take that that sad taste out of my mouth, let's talk Xbox. What do you say? Yes. so the EU is expected, has proved Microsoft's 68 or 69 billion AC Activision Blizzard acquisition, depending on, I guess who you ask.

(01:27:42):
Just after the UK said, eh, I don't think so. <Laugh> unbelievable. Unbelievable. It's crazy. They did make some concessions that interestingly were based on the cloud computing the cloud gaming stuff. Right. Interesting. Yeah. So they have accepted a requirement that they automatically license popular. I'm sure there's a definition of what that means. Activision Blizzard games to competing cloud gaming services. Right? Hmm. Microsoft said that, that not only are they gonna do that, but that agreement will apply globally. We're gonna do this everywhere. Which is kind of a neat thing. Like it bugs me that the UK can unilaterally decide for the entire planet that this deal can't go through. But Microsoft can, on the flip side, when someone says, Hey, we have this requirement of you here. They'll say, yeah, we'll do this everywhere. So this, this decision, this is in a way that, that kind of thing can benefit the rest of the world, even though the U doesn't have any legal sway over the United States or Asia or wherever else.

(01:28:43):
So that's cool. Of course we still have the US FTC to deal with. And then Microsoft is appealing the CMA decision, the UK decision. So I don't, I mean, in barring some miracle, Microsoft's fiscal year ends in about five or six weeks. And if they don't complete this transaction before then, I think they're on the hook for 3 billion in fines or so. 3 billion in payments, or, yeah, yeah, yeah. To activate. So what do you, do you think the EU deciding helps Microsoft with these other regulators? Like the ftc, the administrative judge will say, oh, well, I think the EU is the most influential of all of these regulators, honestly.

Richard Campbell (01:29:30):
Yeah. EU and the ftc. Like, if the FTC

Leo Laporte (01:29:33):
Already said yes, sorry, what? Right. What I meant by that was the FTC is absolutely as if not more important, but the FTC has been a little more shy about this kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, obviously I know under the current administration, they're going after big tech and and all that stuff. But historically, the FTC has been kind of quiet. You know, this is the agency that passed on going after Microsoft than in the 1990s mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And then the d AJ was like, guys, what are you doing? And I think that was a close call. I think it was like a three to two vote or something like that. But the EU will pick up anything. All you're gonna do is write 'em a letter. Oh, they'll investigate anybody

Richard Campbell (01:30:07):
This. Yeah. At the same time, they're approving this, or also, you know, opening discussions around cloud. That's right. You know, they're an active group. Yeah. Letting stuff, you know, they got their agreement. They went ahead with that one. They're not sure if this one, though, the conversation's going on. I mean, it does make the cmma look more foolish, but the Cmma was already pretty foolish.

Leo Laporte (01:30:28):
<Laugh> I, not that they needed any help. And by the way, in the, as soon as the EU announced this, the CMA from the UK published a series of tweets that basically amounted to No, no, I'm sorry, sorry. Amounted to Hey. Yeah. We know these guys said it was okay, but we stand by our decision you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

Richard Campbell (01:30:52):
I mean, isn't Microsoft have the option to just withdraw games from the uk?

Leo Laporte (01:30:57):
I I, there's some complex issue there. I mean, I, yeah, I would

Richard Campbell (01:31:02):
Don't, I can't imagine them doing it. It's all ridiculous.

Leo Laporte (01:31:04):
Yeah. They're not gonna do that. But there was one of the things, the Cmma ra, they said, you know, Microsoft's proposal, which were accepted, would allow Microsoft to set the terms and conditions for this market for the te next day. What, wait, what? <Laugh>, that's not what they do. It just, you're actually just forcing this company to bring their games to other competing services, that, that doesn't set the terms and conditions for the market. It prevents them from setting the terms and condition mm-hmm. For the market. I find that to be, I, the logic here escapes me because there is no logic here, but, right. We'll see what happens. I, I feel like Microsoft will be successful when they appeal the FTC ruling. I see. The C M A I, I don't really have any insight into that, but based on what's happening out in the world I would be shocked if they didn't win that one on merit. But I guess we'll see Idiots,

(01:31:57):
Any idiots stupid idiot. And so it's the middle of the month and we have more games for Xbox Game Pass across all the platforms. PFA 2023 is probably the big one there. There's something called Planet of Lena, Lena Lana, which looks like it's kind of a fun, kind of a puzzle. Adventure game cartoon, not cartoony, but kind of Pixar ish kinda looking thing That looks pretty cool. And of course, railway Empire two. Am I right? I'm gonna rebuild the Mckenjie. It's about Station. It's about time all over it. Yeah. Yeah. It's big. So there's a bunch of stuff and it goes through the end of the month. So I'm imagining this is probably what, wait a minute. You didn't mention cassette beasts, <laugh>. I I do not <laugh>. I dunno what that is, but I don't either. It's gotta be an interesting game.

(01:32:45):
It's some weird stuff in here. Yeah. This is the way this always is it. Right. I'm, I'm shocked by how many games I've never heard of. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, like ever. You mean you don't know about trickery? Colorful Tale. Boy, I've been just trying to get through Halo, infinitely. I'm kinda <laugh> kinda nose down here. I am playing a a hot new game. Very excited on Steam. Mm-Hmm. Be up on Windows if you'd like to play it yourself. Called Timber Born. In it, you play a Beaver and you build dams. <Laugh>, there's no enemies, which is, I like it, you know, and it's like Game of Thrones with, but with beavers. With beavers. Yes. <laugh> <laugh>. You're just building dams and things and chopping down the forest. It's a good life. Huh? Life is So, it's like a Beaver simulator.

(01:33:31):
It's a Beaver simulator. Yes. <laugh>. It's interesting. Like a sergeant turned me into it. It's good. It's fun. I've never heard of it, but No, I know. It's a, it's an early release. It's my kind of game. You know what's really like Age of Empires with beavers, basically <laugh>. And there's, I'm still battling Kal Space program too. Yeah. There's a great program. That's a great program. You know, I did not put this in the notes, but Age of Empires, two Definitive Edition. The Return of Rome is actually available now across Xbox Series Xs Xbox called Gaming Steam and Windows pc, one of my all time favorite games. Okay. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. All right. Da. Oh yeah. So in the, apparently everyone's doing a Windows handheld gaming machine now, which is you know, it's kind of cool. I, I don't, I don't have no issues with that.

(01:34:24):
So the Aus has announced their Rag Ally. Did we talk about this? Ally? Ally, thanks to Ally. Yeah. We go, we didn't talk about this last week. Yeah. Oh, we did. Then we'll skip right over that. There you go. Good. I mean, I'm, you know, it's interesting, I feel you had one of these last week. There's already another one. The Steam deck is running Linux. Right. So that's what's interesting about the asus is it's a, that's, it's a Windows device. Yeah. And there were I don't what I guess leaked designs of a, a kind of a Windows 11 UI that would flip on only when you're on such a device, which kind of like, when you detach a keyboard from a tablet, it kind of switches the That's interesting. And one of the potential UIs is you just have the Xbox app as the ui, and then you run your games. You know, it's also of interest cuz it's running an an a MD processor and apparently quite performant. It's on the rise in Z one. So that's interesting.

Richard Campbell (01:35:15):
Yep. Also noticed a seven inch screen, cuz back in 2014, our Fred Satcha told us is you're running Windows on a device with nine inches or smaller. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:35:24):
Windows

Richard Campbell (01:35:24):
Was free. Oh.

Leo Laporte (01:35:25):
Oh, is it still? I, I don't know. I mean, interesting. That was, I mean, technically that was Windows 10. I don't know if anything changed. You don't really hear about stuff like this anymore. Yeah. But now with these new devices, maybe you will. Hmm.

Richard Campbell (01:35:38):
Yeah.

Leo Laporte (01:35:39):
Hmm. It would certainly behoove Microsoft to get windows on as many of these devices as possible. Sure. Yeah. I'm a little disappointed cuz one of the things that the Steam dick did is it made a lot of games work on Lennox that never did before. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Right. That's cool. Yeah. But this way you get access to, to all of the games, you know, cause Windows you can is the default, you know, platform. You can install Windows on the steam deck. Right? Don't they allow? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. You have all the drivers and everything. I mean, you'd have to pay for it, I guess, but Yeah, I'm not sure you'd want to, but no, I, right. I think you would lose, it's really designed, I'm not sure I was gonna say performance in battery life, but I'm actually not sure. I don't know either.

(01:36:17):
I don't wanna say that. I'm not sure. Yeah. That they have to have a a heat pipe to keep <laugh> the T process. Oh, you're not, you're not blasting external display are you? You might wanna take your hands off of it. <Laugh>, we have special gamer gloves. <Laugh>. It's fireproof gamer gloves. Yeah, that's it. There you go. Plug in a controller and get as far away from that thing as you Connecticut <laugh>. That's perfect. You know, it's interesting, the timing's interesting cuz the hottest game now is switch exclusive is Zelda mm-hmm. <Affirmative> Tears of the Kingdom. Right. And it is, they have sold, they sold in the first three days, 10 million copies. Sure. So it's good

Richard Campbell (01:36:56):
To be the king oof

Leo Laporte (01:36:59):
Ota. I will never understand why Nintendo especially, but I'll add Sony, Microsoft to this list as well, have not made a major mobile gaming push. And the way Nintendo could protect themselves is to just put their old stuff on there. Are you telling me that their n e s games, the f the top 10 or 20 would not sell in the millions? Oh God. Yeah. I would buy those games right now just to play the original Super Mario Brothers, you know, Mario Brothers two, three. They briefly did a little experiment with Apple. Yeah. But it was just a it was a unique game. It was, yeah, it was. They just did Super Mario. Yeah. They, they did a, a special version of it. No, they, I'm talking about bring the actual games. Bring games. Why not bring the, oh my God, that would be so successful.

(01:37:41):
You know what? I'm gonna guess it's apple's 30% they don't like. Okay. Actually that could be, and since Apple could be, you're probably gonna have to cave on that in the U at least. Yeah. Maybe that would be interest if Nintendo offered it in the EU. Only as a side. Apple has special deals though with certain companies where they lower that price. It would, and Nintendo and Apple kind of sh imagine if they were apple arcade games for some amount of time first or something. I mean, it's crazy to me they don't do this. I i it it's just money on the table. Stupid.

Richard Campbell (01:38:15):
I don't think Nintendo is struggling

Leo Laporte (01:38:17):
Making money. No, I know <laugh>. That's true. No, no, no, I hear you. But, and it sell zero switch, right? Because you have to have a switch. So, well, they're gonna sales dropped as soon as this year. So Yeah. Sales are tumbling as we talked about last

Richard Campbell (01:38:30):
Time. Well, I would say slowed.

Leo Laporte (01:38:33):
Slowed. They were crazy. High tumbling is not. Microsoft would still give you give up windows if they could get that kind of sailing Yeah, I know. Surface. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, surface. No surface is gone. Can we have the, the intend switch sales please. <Laugh>, we never did surface. We're sorry about surf surface. What's that? Yeah, I'm so sorry.

Richard Campbell (01:38:52):
Give, we'll give Rapanos for you. You can

Leo Laporte (01:38:54):
Have <laugh>. Exactly. You take Penos. He loves Japan. He's really into and just call it even Yeah. Yep. Still live in a building with paper walls. It was sugar. That's All we ask <laugh> we are gonna do the back of the book, which may or may not include some whiskey.

Richard Campbell (01:39:11):
It

Leo Laporte (01:39:11):
Will, it will. But first I just wanna do, I'm gonna, I call this ha handing out the Begging Bowl. <Laugh> I just plug cuz I know some of you who are avid listeners of this show or any of our shows also have companies, you know, maybe you're the CMO or you're in charge of media buying for your company. And have you ever thought about buying ads on Twitter? I guess is, is the question. Let me, let me give you the pitch. First of all, because of the way we do ads, and we kind of invented this in the early days of podcasting, our host Red Ads, the, when I do an ad, it is, and I treat it this way, an introduction. I am introducing you to our highly qualified audience of listeners. And it, and it really, it really, really works.

(01:40:02):
Let me give you some stats. 56% of podcast listeners just in general pay more attention when a host reads an ad on their show. I would say it's even higher on our shows. Our, when we talk about our audience, 72% of our listeners have a job function directly related to technology. 87% are decision makers in tech and it 87%. And we have very affluent audience top earners. 66% of our audience. Two thirds makes a hundred K or more, 23% over 200 K. So this is an audience you want to reach. If you have a good or service in the tech sphere, I think you really want, and actually we do a lot of consumer goods too, from clothes to sheets to jewelry. And we've been very successful to, to food boxes. We've been very successful with them. Plus we do something kind of, I think I'm very proud of over time.

(01:41:04):
Lisa and I have built a, a continuity department very, you know, this is something a TV station would have. I don't think most podcast networks have. We have Debbie and Viva and Sebastian and Lisa and Max and Ryan, who are there to serve you for everything from copywriting to graphic design. We, when we do the ads, they're unique every time. We don't pre-record ads and, and stick them in. We guarantee over delivery on impressions. So when, you know, when you buy a podcast ad or any media ad, you're buying a certain number of impressions, we guarantee you those impressions. And then some onboarding services, detailed reporting free of cost. If you're a direct client, we'll offer you courtesy commercials that are shareable across social media and landing pages. Those are very effective selling tools cuz you could put that on your website. And now it's one of us, Jason Micah, aunt, me, talking about your product or service.

(01:42:07):
And, and you know what, I think we're, I know our audience values are integrity and honesty. So when they see those ads, they know they're real, they're genuine. We will put you in our newsletter. We get a lot of freebies mentions in the newsletter that goes out to thousands of fans. We, we have recession bonuses right now. Wish we didn't have to, but hey, we understand, you know, times are tough and we're partners with you. We'll help you with social media promotion and even value add. You'll we'll put you on shows you didn't even have to buy.

(01:42:37):
I'll give you an example. You know, we talk all the time on this show and security now and others about this. The things Canary, right? You've heard those ads. The founder over at things Terone Meir has the, has been very kind. He says this is a direct quote. We expected twit to work well for us cuz we were longtime listeners who over the years bought many of the products and services we learned about on various shows, right? You know, you do. We weren't disappointed. The combination of the very personal ad reads and the careful selection of products that Twit believes in gives the ads an authentic, trusted voice that works really well for products like ours. Like this Canary. And he, he left the quote with us. 10 out of 10 will use again, <laugh>. They've been with us for a long time.

(01:43:24):
Many of our advertisers have been with us for many, many years. And Cash Flight been with us for more than a decade. Our listeners are a highly intelligent, heavily engaged, tech savvy audience. You know that cuz that's, that's you. And if you're ready to elevate your brand, we would like to make an introduction to our audience of your brand. Launch your campaign today. Break out of the advertising norm. And that's, that's the the hard part. I understand for a lot of companies, podcast advertising is an unknown. We're an unknown. You watch the show, you tell your boss, you <laugh>, you tell your marketing people, we gotta be on Twitter. Often as in the case of Haroon that makes the difference. You're, you're going to them and saying, you know, I think we should be on twit.

(01:44:14):
Check out what we have to offer. If you wanna know more twit, do TV slash advertise twit tv slash advertise. I'm very proud of what we do here at twit. I'm super proud of our team and I think you could benefit. So reach out TWIT tv slash advertise. Enough said, let's get back to the program. I muted their mics so that neither Paul nor Rich could say anything. We've muted ourselves too. <Laugh>, we're not yet nor snorts of laughter. What's your tip of the week, Paul? Well, I'd hope this to be to be a better tip cuz I was hoping it would be available by now. But any day now, Microsoft is gonna release an updated version of the Windows 11 is o that you download from its website, right? So if you go to, let me find these sites well microsoft.com/software-download/windows 11.

(01:45:10):
If you just Google download Windows 11, you'll get to the download. Windows 11 page is an installation assistant. If you're running Windows 11, there's a create Windows 11 installation media choice, right? Where you use the media creation tool to download the ISO or create a Bootable U SB or D V D. And then there's the third one, which is download Windows 11. Disc image is o for X 64 devices. There's only one choice there. Windows 11 multi edition is o that means during setup you'll get to choose which edition right, that you install. So you choose that and you can choose your product language, English, United States in my case. And Windows 11 is only X 64. And what this thing is, when you download it today is Windows 1122 H two. So you have to install updates to get up to date.

(01:45:56):
However, any, anytime any, anytime, any day. Now Microsoft is gonna update this so that what you download is 22 H two plus all of the updates that have come through the May, 2023 patch Tuesday. So that means you get moment one and moment two, all of the CFRs that have occur occurred in between and including that last one, which is the one that adds that toggle switch to Windows update, remember? So it's really up to date. The problem is I kept checking this thing and it's still on the old one. So the file name is win 11, underscore 22 H two, underscore English in my case, underscore X 64 v1. And that's, if, if that's what it says, don't bother. That's the old one. I'm waiting for this thing to switch over where it says v2. And when that happens, I will be you know, doing what I do with these things.

(01:46:41):
But anyway, <laugh>, it's coming. So I was hoping by the time the show started, this would've happened. I've checked it three times today, still hasn't happened. It is gonna happen soon. So it'll happen the minute, minute the show ends, it'll happen. Yeah, exactly. I hope so. I've been, it's been days I've recommended for the Epic. I've recommended Brave in the past. I use Brave as my, you're very strong. You're not gonna do this to me again. Strongly recommend it again. So, <laugh>, here's the deal. So, well this, there, there are various tools you can use online Yeah. To see how well your brow, your browser does to protect your privacy, right? The electronic, what's it called? Freedom Front, front efs, whatever efsf Yeah. Has something called cover your tracks, for example. Yeah. browsers like Chrome and edge in particular are very unsafe, especially if you haven't installed any you know, extensions like privacy Badgers is a great one that will kind of help a lot.

(01:47:36):
Mm-Hmm. But out of the box, brave is, is the safest one by far. And what it does particularly well is block third party trackers. But third, the people that make third party trackers are starting to figure out that these things are being blocked. And so they're starting to use these insidious new ways to kind of emulate first party trackers or latch onto first party trackers. And so now brave is adding features to control first party trackers. The issue with that is first party trackers can be useful, right? So for example, when you go to i dunno outlook.com for your email, you want it to automatically sign you in every time you go, right? And, but I guess they, they basically looked at this and said, well, how many sites do, do you use that you want that? Would it make sense to block that on most sites and only allow it on the sites that you choose?

(01:48:23):
Right? So they're adding a feature that is called Forgetful Browsing. It will debut in two versions. It's a great, so I <laugh> Yeah, because it sounds like it has like a, like a, a memory issue, but it's a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah. Can I get it if I download the beta? Yeah. It's in, I actually, I think today it might be in Canary. Okay. the version you're looking for is 1.53. Okay. The current version is 1.51 that's on the desktop. It's a little different on Android. But what this is gonna, so it's gonna work in 1 0 2 to 8 1 0 2 ways. You could just go in and, and sl there's already a, I should say there's a control in brave called Brave Shields. And if you click on it, it will show you all the trackers that it blocked for the current site. Like on my site for example, it blocked approximately 1,110 <laugh> 10 blockers.

(01:49:07):
But yeah, surpris recommending this <laugh>, yeah, no, no, you should do it. That's doesn't matter. <Laugh>, they're gonna add an option for forget me on this site, you know? So but you can use it in two different ways. You can just use the browser normally and when this, when you don't want to be remembered at a site, you can check it for that site and it'll always work. And the idea there, there's a lot of reasons to do this and some, it's kind of like reverse incognito mode, right? Like it's what we thought in Cognito mode did, but it actually is doing it. Yes. So, so like so this is a little strange. So some of these are, are, are borderline. People are gonna say, oh, I don't know about this. So one of the ways you could use this is one, go to a site.

(01:49:47):
This is 1.52 is the beta, is that not? Oh, no, it's 1.53 is the one. So it's probably whatever the next one is. Yeah, it's one off. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you go to a site where they're like, Hey, we're like, Bloomberg does this. We're gonna let you read like a certain number of sites articles per month, and then you have to pay, you know, and you can actually shut off the fingerprinting so it doesn't know that it's you and presumably you could use it to kind of bypass that kind of thing. So there is that, that part of it. But from a privacy perspective, what you're trying to do is reduce your footprint on the web, right? You're in, in this case they call it a fingerprint, actually. They, you don't want sites to be able to follow you around, basically.

(01:50:27):
So the other way you could use it is to say, I'm gonna turn this thing on for the entire web, but the sites I do want, it's assign me like Gmail or outlook.com or whatever it is. Amazon, maybe you can say, don't forget me on this site. Like, I, I want, you know, you'll just say I'll, I'll basically block lists most of the internet and then okay. The handful of sites that I do want that capability. So it's coming soon. It's not there yet, but Ellio was trying to find it, I guess. No, it's not the No, I cuz I have 1.52, so it won't be in here yet. I'm just, it won't be in beta yet, yet. Set. So I, I think they're on the same four week schedule, right? Is is Chrome three or four weeks now? I can't remember.

(01:51:04):
They said it. I think they say the three or four. Yeah, three. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. So they're on the same schedule. So it's gonna be somewhere between, you know, five and seven weeks from now. Cuz they, I think they announced this a week ago, but I believe it's in Canary now if you want to test it. There's other stuff they're doing with regards to first party cookie and other storage, et cetera, et cetera. But this is kind of a big one that's coming up. So that's just a, and Brave is based on chromium like Edge is like Google Chrome is so, it's fast, it's compatible without everything and so forth. It uses Chrome extensions and so all of your things, but it has built in a lot of the things that I use extensions for outta the box.

(01:51:44):
I mean, this thing is better than Edge with Privacy badge. It's even got a vpn, brave Firewall plus vpn. Yep. But you have to pay for that. Yeah. Yep. Well, I, you know, I like Brave. I've always used it as kind of an alternative browser. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I prefer it to, to Chrome, I guess. Yeah. So, yeah. Yep. Yep. They, boy they're adding a lot of features since I've used it last. There's now Brave Talk <laugh>. No, it's crazy. Yeah. <laugh>, you can join a meeting with Brave instead of saying, well, I Google meet, you wanna see a lot of features run Microsoft Edge. Like I, I wrote the Edge chapters, oh gosh, three or four months ago. I have to more stuff do everything. They've changed so much. Yeah, that's crazy. It's hard to keep track of. All right. I think we should get a little run ass radio update from Mr. Richard Campbell.

Richard Campbell (01:52:36):
This is a show we've largely talked about already on on Windows Weekly. This is the dealing with vulnerable exchange servers. And I talked to Gareth Guer about this. This is episode 1880 and we were specifically addressing older exchange servers that are in hybrid mode into M 365. And, and Gareth made no bones with the fact that the way that Microsoft evaluates email coming from a hybrid joint server gives it more privilege than coming through any other mean. And so the fact that these machines are being exploited to send spam is a problem for Microsoft. And so they're, the main thing they're doing is they're rate limiting the amount of email, which is not going to affect a normal organization, but it sure does affect a spammer. The, and, and then we got into the great conversation about just how badly the exchange team communicated this and just sent exchange server <laugh> admins through the roof is a very specific case for a very specific reason. And and it was good to to address this. And they're doing the, you know, the best they can the way they're doing it. He's a reliable guy on this topic and it was great to to, to just validate with somebody's really in there. This is what it's about. Nice.

Leo Laporte (01:53:59):
Run his radio Yeah. Dot com. And now the moment you've all been waiting for <laugh> a drink,

Richard Campbell (01:54:07):
I'm taking the easy path. You know, while I'm on the road. We hit, I was in the middle of this last week, so yeah, this is a whiskey that's actually from almost my backyard. The, there's a suburb of Vancouver called Delta. It's very much a farm community and there's a small distillery, there're named Goodrich and Will Williams. And they've been making some very nice whiskeys based on Canadian grains largely. And the one I picked here is they're northern grains. So scroll to the right there.

Leo Laporte (01:54:38):
Oh, okay. Not Western. Nope. Not western grains. Right, right. Let's go farther north there. That looks completely different

Richard Campbell (01:54:44):
To the northern grain. So this is wheat from British Columbia, Northern wheat. Interesting. malted barley combined French choke which they, they're actually diagnosed from our wine region. The Okanagan Valley literally follows the line of Semial Desert through Columbia Valley, Willow Valley down into Sonoma. You know, that's all the same stretch. So the Okanagan very much that same valley thing. So they're getting used oak ca wine casks from them, grain from, from BC and they've been making a no age Appalachian. So, you know, it's only three or four years old. But it's for $40 drinks very nicely, unfortunately. Relatively difficult to find because it is such a small distillery.

Leo Laporte (01:55:28):
So the only Canadian whiskey I'm familiar with, of course is crown Royal. Crown Royal and Canadian Club. A cocktail go-to, yeah, a Canadian club. I'm sorry. Yeah. Canadian. Canadian Club. So is there a kind of style, the Canadian style that this

Richard Campbell (01:55:42):
Shares and, and this one, this one doesn't follow that. Oh, it's the traditional Canadian whiskeys were prohibition whiskeys. They were relatively inexpensive whiskeys designed to be smuggled into America. Cuz you guys had gone insane <laugh> and so they

Leo Laporte (01:55:56):
Right.

Richard Campbell (01:55:58):
They had a lot

Leo Laporte (01:55:58):
Temporary insanity. Yes. Yeah.

Richard Campbell (01:56:00):
So, so they were more like bourbon. They were corn and corn, that's right. And malted barley. Right, right. And often a fair bit of rye. In fact, a lot of early Canadian whiskey was largely rye, rye whiskey. But all of that was shaped by prohibition. And I, I had been assembling notes for a while now to have a talk about prohibition in general and how it shaped the whiskey industry around the world. This is not that whiskey, this is a, a very much a 20th century small scale distiller that's making remarkably good award-winning whiskey. Right. In BC

Leo Laporte (01:56:39):
Goodridge and Williams Northern Grains. And I had no idea that you and I were in the same valley. Okanagan Valley goes all the way down to Sonoma.

Richard Campbell (01:56:51):
Yeah. Pretty much between the

Leo Laporte (01:56:52):
Two. And thanks to Global Warming Mountain, it will soon have exactly the same weather as you did.

Richard Campbell (01:56:56):
Yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:56:56):
That's really interesting. So it's two different well, one's the sea, right? Or no,

Richard Campbell (01:57:03):
No, no, it's mountains on both sides.

Leo Laporte (01:57:05):
Two mountain ranges. Yeah. And they just go all the way up to Canada from

Richard Campbell (01:57:08):
Here all the way. Yeah, you're exactly right.

Leo Laporte (01:57:11):
I have Are you trying to suggest that the border between the United States and Canada is arbitrary? It's made up <laugh>.

Richard Campbell (01:57:17):
Who's going? A Thk?

Leo Laporte (01:57:19):
We're in here we are broadcasting J from Okanagan Valley. Mm. South. Oh,

Richard Campbell (01:57:25):
I do have some, I do have some friends up there, so I'll do a couple of shows from there with a collection of wine with me. I'm sure that's,

Leo Laporte (01:57:31):
Yeah, it's wild. I had no idea. Wow. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. All right, we'll try that. Northern Grains. I hope you have fun. And Antwerp Richard

Richard Campbell (01:57:38):
Leaving tomorrow. Oh,

Leo Laporte (01:57:39):
You've already, you've already done your thing.

Richard Campbell (01:57:42):
Yeah. All finished, all finished. Recorded some shows. Did a couple of stage productions, had a great time. So yeah. Build next week, but you know, we'll be hanging out on Tuesday and Wednesday. Will

Leo Laporte (01:57:51):
You be at Build or will you be home?

Richard Campbell (01:57:54):
I'll be at Build. All

Leo Laporte (01:57:55):
Right. I'll be home. So we'll have a reporter on the ground floor and you, Paul, will you also be at Build or will you be at home? No, they did not invite the press.

Richard Campbell (01:58:04):
Mm-Hmm.

Leo Laporte (01:58:05):
What is Richard Richard's a podcaster? <Laugh>, I mean

Richard Campbell (01:58:09):
A Trusted Fred. Yeah. I'm in it as a podcaster.

Leo Laporte (01:58:13):
Wait a minute. You're a pod. Wait a minute. No, no. I, I No, I mean, he is gonna be helping with podcasts. Oh, they're podcast. Yeah,

Richard Campbell (01:58:20):
Yeah, yeah,

Leo Laporte (01:58:21):
Yeah. Because I think podcasters would, should count as press. Maybe it's just me. I could not agree. And you are a podcaster, Paul, if nothing else, you are a I mean, I feel like I've been doing it for a little while. Yeah. I wouldn't get too ahead of myself. Cray cray. Okay. Yeah. Well, we'll we will be doing live coverage. So windows Weekly kind of will back Tuesday, 9:00 AM Pacific Noon Eastern. That is 1600 UTC for live coverage of the keynote, which we believe will be now it was Sacha, is it now Panos? No, no, it's still, it's a, it's a bunch of people. It's gonna be Sacha, the guy from Open ai, a bunch of other people. Sam Alman from Open ai, Sacha Nadela, it will be the AI keynote. We, we, we think Keynote and then Wednesday, the following day, another keynote. And you know, there's some thought that perhaps it would be an announcement of Windows 12. We don't know. I heard people were tired of not having cats. Oh, more cats. My cats are annoying and they don't like to be held. So she's, you call her Mr. Mr. Whiskers. I call her Little Cat <laugh> Little Cat and Big Cat. Well now we've got a cattail in the show. It's it's just like it used to be.

Richard Campbell (01:59:40):
There

Leo Laporte (01:59:40):
You go. Paul Throt is@throt.com. That is his website. And you should definitely be a premium member. I am. You should also check out his books@leanpub.com. Of course. There's a field guide Windows 11, which has a chewy center of Windows 10 <laugh> and Yep. And then there's an entirely another book that he just released called Windows Everywhere, which is that series he was doing for premium members on thro.com about, you know, kind of all the programming languages and stuff. It's kind of a history of Windows. It's a history, yeah. History microphone. Fascinating. Fascinating. Oh, history Windows. Sorry. windows everywhere. Both@Leanpub.Com. You set your own price by the way. Do, are there hard They're hardbound editions, right? It's not just e eBooks. So I, I it's boy, so the Windows 11 field guide's not done yet, so I can't do a printed version yet. I see. You wouldn't want one cuz it's gonna be, it's tough cuz it changes so often. Yeah, but I can do it. The Windows everywhere book. I can't, it's too big.

Richard Campbell (02:00:41):
Hmm. Can't get. It's too

Leo Laporte (02:00:43):
Thick. I've never found a way I've tried, like I tried to go through Amazon. I've tried, I tried different services and it's just too big. Like every time it comes back it says yes. This

Richard Campbell (02:00:51):
Is what happened to JR Tolkin with Exactly.

Leo Laporte (02:00:53):
Fellowship of the Ring. Too Big. That's

Richard Campbell (02:00:55):
Why I made the trilogy.

Leo Laporte (02:00:56):
Unbelievable. Well, good job Paul. Paul, you just write like the dickens, literally Charles. It is Dickens. It's a big it's a big book. Yeah. Paid by the word. Richard Campbell's show run as radio and.net rocks his shows. Cuz you know what, he's a podcaster. He's not a journalist. He's a podcaster. Available@Renisradio.Com and we look forward to see what you do at Build. That'll be fun.

Richard Campbell (02:01:20):
We'll have some fun.

Leo Laporte (02:01:20):
Yeah, we do windows Weekly every Wednesday, 11:00 AM Pacific. 2:00 PM Eastern Time. 1800 utc. If you wanna watch us do it live, you can. All you need to do is go to live dot twit tv. There's streaming audio and video there. After the fact, we make on-demand versions of the show available at twit tv slash dub dub. Of course. Now, if you don't like ads, you can join Club Twit for seven bucks a month and get a, an ad free version of this show and all the shows we do plus shows that we don't put out in public, like Paul's Hands-on Windows, which is an excellent show. There's Hands-on Mac, there's on Title Linnux show. There's a whole bunch of great stuff. We just launched Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks. So you're supporting the network. You're getting ad free shows.

(02:02:09):
You're also getting access to the Club Twit Discord. So if you're not a member, please check it out at twit.tv/club twit. We would love to have you in the club. We also have a YouTube channel dedicated Windows Weekly. Actually, you'll find a link at the Windows Weekly site at twit tv slash dub dub. Or you could subscribe in your favorite podcast client. That's probably the best way to do it. We don't care how you can watch any way you want YouTube on the website podcast client, but it's easiest for you, I would imagine, to subscribe that way. You just get it automatically and whenever you're in the mood, you've got it there on your device. We have links to some of the big podcast clients, but also a link to an RSS feed so you can subscribe anywhere. I hope you will, and I hope you'll be back.

(02:02:54):
Remember we start early next Tuesday, 9:00 AM Pacific, and then Wednesday 9:00 AM Pacific, and then the regular Windows Weekly. Right after those keynotes from Microsoft Build have a great trip home. Richard. I ho I hope you travel well and we'll see you up in Redmond. Is that where Build is? Where is build? Seattle? Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. It's in Seattle. It's in Redmond. Yeah. Okay. It'll be in Seattle. Seattle, okay. At the convention center. Across the board <laugh>. Yeah. It's easy for you. You just hop in a car and say hi to the MAs as you drive by. Drive down. Yep. Paul, we'll see you next week too and we see all of you I certainly hope on Windows Weekly. Bye bye.

Scott Wilkinson (02:03:38):
Hey there. Scott Wilkinson here In case you hadn't heard, home Theater Geeks is Back. Each week I bring you the latest audio, video news, tips and tricks to get the most out of your AV system product reviews and more you can enjoy Home Theater Geeks only if you're a member of Club Twi, which costs seven bucks a month. Or you can subscribe to Home Theater Geeks by itself for only 2 99 a month. I hope you'll join me for a weekly dose of home theater Geek.