This Week in Space 157 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:00 - Tariq Malik
Coming up on this Week in Space, we've got a possible detection of life on an alien planet. 120 light years away, there was an explosion at a Northrop Grumman rocket test flight, and we're talking about the Space Force, with Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna, who's going to tell us what that military branch really does. Tune in.

0:00:26 - Rod Pyle
This is This Week in Space, episode number 157, recorded on April 18th 2025: Space Force! Hello and welcome to another episode of this Week in Space. The wait for it: Space Force edition. Space Force: Woo.

0:00:40 - Tariq Malik
Space Force edition Space Force Woo.

0:00:46 - Rod Pyle
No, all right. All right. I'm Rod Pyle, the long-suffering editor-in-chief of Mad Astor Magazine, and I'm joined by that desktop space warrior himself, Tariq Malik, editor-in-chief at space.com. Ahoy, ahoy and lone combatant, how are you, sir?

0:01:00 - Tariq Malik
I'm doing well, rod. Happy Easter preview Easter episode.

0:01:08 - Rod Pyle
Yeah, I'm doing well, rod. Happy easter. Preview. Easter episode yeah, how are you easter? We'll call it. Yeah. In a few minutes we'll be joined by Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna of the us space force, which is going to be fun. He's a really interesting guy, great to chat with and, um, he's going to educate us all about space force, because I, for one, didn't know nearly as much about it as I should. But before we do that, please you know what's coming don't forget to do us a solid. Make sure to like, subscribe and other things on our various podcast venues, because we're counting on you so we can keep doing this fantastic show. Okay, um, now a space joke from our good friend of the show listener, Ken Kramer I just saw Ken.

0:01:51 - Tariq Malik
Okay, yes, yeah, hey Ken yes yeah, I saw him at the conference I was at at NEEF. Different Ken Kramer, oh, a different Ken, yeah sorry no, maybe I'll see you too soon, Ken okay okay.

0:02:04 - Rod Pyle
Why did the space force guardian get in trouble for bringing a pet to the space station? I don't know why. Because he let his dog tag along for the launch.

0:02:16 - Tariq Malik
I like it. I like it no it's good, it's good.

0:02:28 - Rod Pyle
Now I've heard that some people want to make us into dog tags when it's joke time in the show, but you can help by sending us your best worst in that case, or it's a different space joke at twist at twittv and I have to tell you, tart our listeners I maybe they're upset with us because we haven't heard much in terms of space jokes. There's a few that are pretty consistent and, by the way, if you're looking in bennett surf's 101 best space jokes, which I don't think exists or on ai, we've seen those. So we're kind of looking for original stuff. Maybe you heard it from your dad years ago or maybe you you made it up yourself. Those are the best ones. So, um, yeah, let's, uh, let's, let's step it up guys, he says we're depending on you.

0:03:12 - Tariq Malik
Is what he said?

0:03:13 - Rod Pyle
that's what I meant to say. We love you. We're depending on you, know. Give it to program. That's in order, all right. Headlines yes, it's alive.

0:03:24 - Tariq Malik
Headline news oh, I missed it again.

0:03:28 - Rod Pyle
All right, miss, Australia, 1959. It's alive. So we have stories rippling through the press of possible life signatures found at the Sunso conquest of space Exoplanet K2-18b, which is a suspected ocean, or hyacinth as they call them world, in a habitable zone about a little over 100 light years away, 120.

0:03:52 - Tariq Malik
120 light years away.

0:03:53 - Rod Pyle
That's fairly over 100, isn't it Thought to be about two and a half times the size of Earth? Notably, although this story got a lot of pushback from certain outlets, mostly other science folks notably, this was the second indication in a couple of years of the same signature. So just indulge me for a moment. These are possible signs of life and an emphasis on possible found in the spectra of this exoplanet as it transited its host star. And these are spectrographic signatures of dimethyl sulfide, dms and dimethyl disulfide, which on earth are produced by algae and other microbes.

Now it's thought that this can also be abiotically produced, ie without life. But due to the amount of what they found they think they found in the atmosphere, which is a few million, I think a few million times what's found on earth. Let's see on earth and we got a lot of plankton and algae on earth it's below one part per billion and on this planet they think it's uh, parts per million, which is a huge differential. So you know, hope springs eternal that we may have found life elsewhere. But the science team themselves who I'm hoping will get on the show, said they need a few more hours of observing time on the Webb Space Telescope to confirm, and I imagine that's pretty hard to get.

0:05:27 - Tariq Malik
Yeah, yeah, what a day to take the day off and take your daughter to the Smithsonian Museum of Air and Space Museum. That's where I was yesterday when this was all happening and people were calling me going hey, hey, where's this story?

0:05:40 - Leo Laporte
Where's the story at space.gov? Yeah?

0:05:43 - Tariq Malik
that's right. I was just getting up from my lunch at Shake Shack at the museum when Rod is like, hey, what's going on with the story? So there is no rest for the weary space. All right, I did see Discovery for the first time, though, at the Udvar AZ Center. That was the first time I saw Discovery since it flew last. First time I saw Discovery since it flew last. It was really nice to see because it's been 14 years. But anyway, this is exciting. But, like you just said, we have to be really skeptical, because this was the James Webb Space Telescope is what they used to look at it. You would expect that if anything that is used or launched by NASA or its partners finds actual evidence of life, that NASA themselves would help announce it.

0:06:27 - Rod Pyle
So- Well, and talk about a way of restoring your science budget if it gets cut. I mean really.

0:06:32 - Tariq Malik
Yeah, yeah so, but it is, I guess I would say, hopeful. You know, because, as you mentioned, this isn't a new planet. Kepler K2-18b has been in the talks for the last few years about its potential to be a habitable planet. I think you and I have different size estimates for it. I have it pegged at nearly nine times more massive than Earth but More mass. I said size, oh, size. Okay, there you go, yeah, and so it is, I think, a bit encouraging that this, you know, relatively new instrument. I mean, it's been less than fouralizingly attractive. This planet is to host life, but how. We just still can't say conclusively one way or another.

My only concern is that this ends up like the methane on Mars which there's, like a camp that says it has to be made by a biological substance, by a biological substance, and then another camp that says no. Like you just said earlier, there are non-biological processes to make this chemical signature and we won't really know about Mars until we actually go there. Going to K2-18b a lot harder, a lot harder than going to Mars to confirm what it's going to be. So my hope is that we'll be able to get some more conclusive evidence to say, one way or another, what it is that will be undeniable in the signal from either James Webb or another equivalent. That can help put it to bed a lot more simply. So it's not like this. You know, will they won't they type of situation on an alien planet for years to come.

0:08:29 - Rod Pyle
Well and just or a life on Viking situation, you know Well, I was gonna say yeah.

Another similar story was when the Viking landers went down in 1976, within short order they had their manipulator arms, which were very interesting design but I won't go into it. Go out, take soil samples, dump them into a trio of life science experiments and one of them showed a positive spike and the others didn't. And after a lot of battle between the head of the of the life science project on that mission and one of the pis on a particular experiment, there's a lot of acrimony between those two. In fact they almost went to blows at one point, had to be pulled back by others. The guy who ran it was a pretty starch collar kind of scientist, but you guard your special interests.

0:09:22 - Tariq Malik
Is that good or bad to have a starch collar? Uh in his case.

0:09:25 - Rod Pyle
He was just really tightly wound and then saw things his way. And you know this is 1976. So people are looking at all this, this exo-biological life science, through the lens of what we knew in 1976, which is very different than now. But my point here being that question, for the results of that experiment are still being debated. We think it was perchlorates in the soil reacting in a non-biological way, but nobody really knows. And more recent tests of that experiment on Earth, in places like the Atacama and with artificially prepared simulant, seem to indicate that it might have actually found something. But we won't know for a long time. But let's move on. Glam is getting slammed for the flight of blue origin ns31, the uh oft referred to glam flight. The first build widely, is the first all-female mission since valentina tereshkova, in which it was a little bit of a headline stretch for me, because when you say all female for Valentina Tereshkova, it's easy to be all female when you're the only person the only person on the capsule.

Yeah, but you know it's a relevant point. So a crew of very high profile media figures went up and came back and had their 11 minutes of flight and then you know four to six minutes of weightlessness in the parabola suborbital um I like how you danced around the fact that they launched katy perry to space.

0:10:55 - Tariq Malik
You know well, god knows you've addressed it enough.

0:10:59 - Rod Pyle
But here's the problem. You know it, it's it it. If you're just talking about bare facts with no embellishment or set dressing, this was a tourist flight. Now, sometimes science is performed on these suborbital hops. Sometimes some important stuff comes out of it. This was, I think, by design, primarily done for public relations, for advancing the cause of women in stem, for a number of things which matter. But here's where the controversy got.

Controversy got stood up because people were just going nuts on social media they still are on the one side we've got people saying these people aren't astronauts and that's an old conversation and this is just a stunt, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we've got on the other side people, including a lot of very well-intentioned, intelligent women, saying look, this is a big step forward for stem and so forth. So you know there's a certain validity to points of the arguments on both sides. But it really got very heated up and kind of nasty very quickly, which I expected some of that, but not to that degree. What did you think?

0:12:08 - Tariq Malik
Yeah, I mean, you've heard me talk about this for the last few episodes, about how surprised I was at the severe backlash, because it is very unique to this flight in terms of both its veracity, its amplification, as well as opposed to the other uh, what the other 10 crude flights? I think this is the 11th crude flight right for blue origin uh that they did, including the one that that jeff bezos uh launched on uh. But you know, as, as you said, I mean the the fact that this was uh largely a promotional flight for in blue origins uh aspect really was crystallized in the post-flight interviews, in which I believe that Katy Perry was asked if she recommended it, and of course she did. She recommended it, gave it a 10 out of 10 and felt that everyone should do it, and that's Blue Origin's ad right there. You know Katy Perry says you should go to space, but you know most of us can't afford it. You have to put $150,000 down just to ask how much it costs to do a ticket and Blue Origin will not tell you what the ticket prices are. But that's a whole industry. Look at it.

This was essentially a tourist flight. I believe Amanda Wynn, the bioastronauts engineer and activist on the flight. I think that she did do two experiments. She said while she was on the flight either that she took with her or whatnot in the interview, but the blowback has been very, very audible.

In fact, I was just reading another story, I believe, in the Times today in their culture section, about kind of what a waste of time it was and, and you know everyone fawning over 11 minutes of space travel and what not. It's still very surprising to me. In fact, some of the the youtubers I follow, who only cover movies, we're covering this flight about how much they hated it, which was really surprising to me. So, no, I I get the criticism that this was a tourist flight and it was made out to be more than it was. Uh, katie perry and gail king kissing the ground, you know, thankful to be back on earth after 11 minutes, could be a little bit much right considering that. Uh, what, uh, um, uh, the astronauts, the starliner astronauts, were up there for eight months, you know, over eight, over over eight months, uh, planned, uh, so, uh, you know, and they were criticized for having their designer spacesuits too, or flight suits, the months flight suits can I make a comment on that.

0:14:35 - Rod Pyle
You know, yeah, they didn't do themselves any favors with some of the pr yeah, with the l you mean the l cover for glam and space. Yeah, I mean well, and and the poses before and after. You know those suits were. I mean they were, I think, standard Blue Origin suits.

0:14:53 - Tariq Malik
No, no, they're not. The Blue Origin ones are made out of polyester. Yeah, and they're made out of. You know, they're made out of kind of polyester jumpsuit material. These are made out of a stretch, flame-resistant neoprene that are tailored specifically.

0:15:10 - Rod Pyle
Okay, I thought they looked a little better than before they got flared pant legs.

0:15:17 - Tariq Malik
They're designed to be much more comfortable and whatnot.

0:15:21 - Rod Pyle
Well, and as a fashion statement. Exactly I would say which may not have been. I mean, you know, you just have to know, when you're going into these things, why they didn't ask you and I, I just am not sure. Right, you have to know. Going into these things.

0:15:34 - Tariq Malik
I'm a wonderful personality. I don't know about you.

0:15:40 - Rod Pyle
That you're target on your back and it's just, it's just tough. So, uh, you know, I hope this simmers down and that, uh, the maximum benefit can be extracted from it, but probably no time soon, all right. And uh, we have some, I guess, relatively breaking news about yeah, this happens with northrop grumman.

0:15:57 - Tariq Malik
That's awful exactly, yeah, uh, yeah, yesterday, or actually wednesday, there was an explosion at northrop grumman's uh test site out in uh Promontory, utah, which we just got some photos from the Sheriff's Department out there, and it fully destroyed one of their buildings out there. And of course this is where Northrop Grumman tests their solid rocket motors, the ones that they built for the space shuttle, the big ones that they're building for SLS. But there isn't any word about what was going on at the building there. But we do know there were no injuries, no fatalities.

Oh, good, so at least there's that to be thankful for. But it is curious to kind of find out what was going on there. It doesn't seem like any Artemis hardware for at least the next two flights were affected because Artemis 2, they've stacked it already which launches next year, in 2026, as we're recording this, and I believe they've already completed or shipped the segments for Artemis 3 as well. So it is just kind of something that we know happened. They're going to look into it. They've lost an entire building. What building that was we don't know and what the you know the extent of the blowback or the setbacks that it might create for their solid rocket motor industry. You know we're not sure they make more than the SRBs. You know they make motors for missiles and all of that type of thing as well. So you know it's unclear, but clearly something went very, very wrong and I think it's just good to know that no one was at least injured in it and hopefully they'll get to the bottom of what happened and avoid that from happening again.

0:17:40 - Rod Pyle
Yeah, that wouldn't be good, All right, well, we are going to go to a quick break. And we are going to go to a quick break and we are going to be back in just a moment with Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna of the US Space Force. Stay with us and we are back with Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna, and I've always wanted to say that, chief Master Sergeant of the US Space Force, john, thank you for joining us today.

0:18:07 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Hello, hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

0:18:10 - Rod Pyle
I'm excited so just for me, because I'm a total moron when it comes to military.

0:18:15 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
You can tell I never served what does a Chief Master Sergeant do? What is that role? So my official title is Chief Master Sergeant of the space force. So I am the most senior enlisted member of the service and I have counterparts like the sergeant major of the army, the master chief, petty officer of the navy. So all the services have a senior enlisted that work directly for the service chief or in my, my particular case, I work for the chief of space operations directly, uh, general saltzman.

So in my role, you know, I work for the Chief of Space Operations directly, general Saltzman. So in my role, you know, I've been doing this for almost 31 years. You know I take my kind of military experience, my space operations experience, and I advise General Saltzman on the development, the employment and the strategy to make sure that guardians I call it the guardian experience, that guardians in the United States Space Force have an experience that they feel valued, that they're challenged, they're developed and really to kind of get after the needs of the nation. So I provide them primarily on a lot of enlisted stuff. But I like to say that my responsibility doesn't stop at stripes. Whether you're wearing stars, whether you're wearing stripes or whether you're wearing a suit, as a civilian. I'm concerned about your experience as a Guardian, so those are some of the things I advise them on.

0:19:30 - Tariq Malik
Okay and Chief, I'm just curious about you yourself as a person, because I was reading your bio, I know that you joined the Air Force in 1994, or at least entered the Academy in 1994, but the Space Force is much younger than that.

I think you shifted over in 2020. So I'm curious what that path was like for you. You know as a member of the service, you know, I mean, was that always an ambition, you know, as a youth? To enter service or the Air Force was attractive, and then, of course, space Force started. What was that path like for you?

0:20:08 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, so you know I tell the story that you know quite honestly. It was early 90s when I enlisted into the United States Air Force and you know there was the patriotism that was involved in that, but also it was I was trying to make something of myself. You know my kind of personal story. I got married in the month of May and went to boot camp in August, so only a couple months later. So I tell General Saltzman, who's a phenomenal, phenomenal teammate, that though he may be a four-star general, my wife Kathy outranks him just by time and grade. But I enlisted and I did it for four years because I wanted to try and make something of myself. But you know, I tell the for four years because I wanted to try and make something myself. But you know I tell the story that that initial four-year contract, if you will, as an enlisted member, wound up turning into a lifetime commitment.

I just really enjoyed serving.

I enjoyed the challenges that service provided me, allowed me to do things I never had a chance that I thought I would do and so I stayed in.

And when I first came in I was a maintainer.

Actually, you know, I worked on test equipment for the United States Air Force and did that for a couple years but then uh transitioned into do being an enlisted space operator and in 98 I went to tech school out in Vandenberg at the time Air Force Base and learned how to do uh space operations and got into the space business and my first job was watching dots for the DSP, the Defense Support Program, out at Buckley Air National Guard Base at the time back in the late 90s, and that started my space career and I've loved having a chance to do that for many, many years.

So when the Space Force was established since I've been doing space operations in the United States Air Force the transition opportunity to continue that work that I believed in, but also that the challenge and opportunity to stand up a new service and help build a foundation for generations of guardians to come I jumped at the chance and, to your point, it was one September of 2020 that I transitioned over and that was the first day that we were authorized to do the transition. So myself and several hundred of my closest friends who are all doing space operations, all transitioned on one September 2020.

0:22:16 - Tariq Malik
Wow, that's awesome. And when you were choosing to enlist, I mean, why pick the Air Force? I guess at that beginning, I mean, if there were other services, was there like a family tradition or was it like the one branch that really grabbed you? Was it something you were always interested in since you were a kid?

0:22:33 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, so actually it was a little bit of what opportunities kind of were out there. My father was a Marine in World War II. You know I have other family members that served in the Army and other branches. War II you know I have other family members that served in the Army and other branches. But for me personally, what I was looking to I was looking for kind of a skill and something interested me and all the services have their unique culture and really right ethos that they build and it was what the Air Force.

I was a precision measurement equipment laboratory technician PMAL is what they call it and when I talked to the Air Force recruiter and he gave me this name and kind of talked about what I would do and I called my father at the time and I said, hey, dad, I talked to the Air Force recruiter today and this is a job that he said that I could do and go to school for and he goes, take it. That's a great job, you know. You learn a skill You're really going to enjoy working in the laboratory calibrating test equipment and that's kind of what got me into the Air Force originally.

0:23:29 - Rod Pyle
That's awesome. So I have first a selfish, personal question and then I'll get back to the show. First of all, you don't look nearly old enough to have a father who was in World War II. I mean, my father was World War II era, so kudos to your good genes. Where was he deployed in? The, I assume, Pacific.

0:23:49 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, so my father when he served it was later in the war, so he was part of the you know quote-unquote occupation force that was in Japan. So a lot of the photographs that I have, you know my father passed, you know, years ago, but you know most of the photographs are him, you know, working in kind of the police occupation force around Japan and Tokyo when he served later on in the war and then came back. But you know, by the time he got in, you know most of the combat in the Pacific was already over.

0:24:23 - Rod Pyle
It was probably a good thing. So what was your first reaction when you heard the announcement about the Space Force being stood up? Because it was kind of a. You know we had heard some inklings of it, but it's like what is this? And you know, gee, the way it was described in some circles was we're going to have Guardians and TIE fighters slugging it out with the bad guys in space. And in other circles it was a little more temperate of. You know, we're basically going to be observing satellites and protecting our interests in orbit and so forth.

0:24:55 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, it was exciting because, as you know, right there was, you know, washington was a little undecided on where we were to go, whether or not you know it was we could afford and whether or not there was momentum and understanding, if you will, whether or not we needed a separate service. So when we finally got the word and that it was going to happen, I was pretty excited because I said I've been doing this work for a while a seeded evolution of where we were going in the domain and that, from a military perspective, that there were some concerning activities that were happening, especially for some of our competitors that were making it a war-fighting domain. And I can say that freely now that space is a war-fighting domain as an independent service. But I spent many years doing space operations and seeing what was happening. You know whether you know whether it be the I think it was you know back in what 2007,. Maybe when you know China first did that ASAT when they blew up. You know the funked weather satellite and some other activities. You know whether it be ground-based lasers jammers you know experiencing that and seeing it for so many years. But getting you know whether it be ground-based lasers jammers you know, experiencing that and seeing it for so many years, but getting you know, be able to talk about it in the open, but also educating the public and our elected officials, that hey, like there's some concerning things happening there and it was kind of an acknowledgement when the service was stood up which really allowed us to kind of have this discussion and allow us to, as a separate service now to really focus on that Because I believe in it.

You know when I talk about, you know, our mission statement right secure our nation's interests in, from our true space. I think that's really important. And you know, I get the opportunity to engage and talk to youth. I try to go to schools when I can and talk to whoever will give me an opportunity to talk about what we do. And I do that not because I'm trying to recruit people into uniform, but I do it because I say that the domain, our opportunities, the potential that space provides is unlimited and that as a service right, freedom of maneuver and access to space. And that as a service right, freedom of maneuver and access to space. So I say this so that explorers can explore, dreamers can dream, innovators can innovate. I just want to play my role as a guardian, because I know that it's a contested domain, but I want to make sure that we have the ability to take advantage of it. I mean, it's just kind of amazing when you think about where we are.

You know, I use the analogy my wife and I went on a cruise out of Miami last year, went out into Caribbean, into international waters, and I say I was not standing on the side of the boat with binoculars right, fearful of pirates coming on the boat, because I knew that the Navy of the world, led by the US Navy, were protecting and securing, you know, lanes, sea lanes of transit and commerce. That allowed me to take a vacation, it allowed the company to invest and build the boat, it allowed individuals who are making a career to work on the boat and for that whole economic and way of life to exist. I want individuals, when they think about the Space Force and our ability to travel, take advantage of whether it be tourism, space cargo, travel out beyond the moon to Mars, and say that we're able to do that because the guardians of the Space Force secure the nation's interest from into space. That's kind of so, all that wrapped up when the service stood up. That's what I'm thinking about. I'm like I'm excited to be part of it.

0:28:22 - Rod Pyle
Very well put, sir. We will be right back after this short break with Tarek's next burning question. Stand by.

0:28:31 - Tariq Malik
Well, chief, you know I think you actually got my question coming up ahead of time, because as we're speaking no, it's quite all right as we're speaking, the Space Force just celebrated its fifth anniversary fifth birthday, if you will, and I guess you're coming up on your five-year anniversary later this year, then congratulations ahead for that. And there might be some folks who don't really understand what it is that the Space Force as a branch does, and you touched on a bit of them. But I guess, just for the folks that maybe aren't either as versed or just not as attentive in just how the military works, what is it that the Space Force itself really, you know, aims at, either safeguarding in terms of assets for civilian use, military use, and you know, I guess, what gets you going to work every morning to oversee all of your responsibilities there.

0:29:29 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, absolutely. So what gets me up every day are the guardians and their families, like you know, these men and women who are doing the things that they do, serving, wearing the cloth of our nation and making the sacrifices and accepting the challenges that what you know what service means. So it's the men and women that get me up every day. But from the service perspective, you know the things that I believe in that they're doing. Right, I'm sitting in an office and I'm having a chance to hang out with you guys right in an afternoon. They're out working in windowless rooms taking care of the nation's business. But what is that to your point? Right, from the Space Force perspective? So there's we kind of bucket. There's three core functions, if you will, within the Space Force. The one is assured space access. You know that's. You know us our ability to be able to have national security launches. You know, at Cape Carnival so that's Patrick last year I think we had 93 launches. We're going to break 100 this year, I know it. You know we have the. You know, on the West Coast we have Vandenberg Space Force Base. You know we have tracking stations that that enable and help, right, uh, launch, right. So assured space access. You know, not only is it vital from a national security perspective, but from a from a financial perspective. We want to have a robust space industry within the united states and and the ranges and our ability to provide that infrastructure you know range of the future going out, you know. You know the direction that we're going. So that's one of the core functions that we do assured space access.

One of the other things we do is global space operations. So and that's something that a lot of it I did as well as an airman for many years and that's your making sure the GPS right position, navigation and timing that entire constellation right, that entire ecosystem is owned and executed by the Space Force Guardians of the Space Force. Right now right, there are young Guardians sitting in the windowless room at Shriver Space Force Base that are monitoring that constellation, making sure that right, the PNT that not only our warfighters and coalition partners rely on but the agricultural sector, the financial sector, the transportation sector, that entire ecosystem is built right on the sustainability and accuracy of PNT and the GPS constellation, military SATCOM, space-based missile warning and Earth monitoring. You know space domain awareness, as you know. You know, my teammate, colonel Nick Haague, just came back from the space station last month. One of the things we do as space domain awareness is to make sure that the 47,000 or so objects that are orbiting Earth as a space force, we're tracking those using worldwide sensors and we're sharing that data with commercial partner nations and NASA as a fact. So global space operations is really the core which enables the warfighter to be more lethal, but also supports and enables the economy of the United States.

The third this is the other core function this is the one as to why we were established as a space force is what we call space control, for us to provide space superiority. This is really where we talk about our ability to ensure freedom of maneuver and action on our own timing and tempo within the space domain, but also denying any kind of adversary the ability to do the same. So we say, okay, what is it we do as a space force? It's assured space access, global space operations, which we all do those two very well, and really where we're moving and making investments is going to be space control and our ability to provide space superiority to the nation and our allies. So, from the Guardians that I love and I get up every day for that's the work that they're doing day in and day out.

0:33:17 - Tariq Malik
We should clarify real quick guardians.

0:33:18 - Rod Pyle
That's the term for the service members in the Space Force right as opposed to like yeah, yes, which is way cooler than airmen, just in my opinion. Yeah, I love it.

0:33:26 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
I love it.

0:33:28 - Rod Pyle
So I think it's worth mentioning that, if I understand correctly and I've written about this a number of times you know, when you look at the vast impact the orbital assets have on our lives you mentioned GPS there's tracking ships at sea, there's tracking cargo moving and trucks and and trains. There's agriculture, you know, tracking crop health and and planting cycles and so forth. Banking transactions are often handled by satellite, all kinds of communications, including video, I mean. The list goes on and on and on, and if that suddenly got switched off one afternoon by some bad guy, our economy would come to a grinding halt and much of the things that a lot of us depend on day to day would suddenly just stop. That is all part of your domain, correct?

0:34:16 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yes, it is 100%.

And that's why when we talk about, you know, the amount of investment and focus on, you know, global stays strong, making sure that the nation remains safe, but also that our joint warfighters rely on a lot of that capability as well, and that's why we still do that today and we've considered those inherently military functions.

And then, which is why, on the space superiority, space control side, our ability to what we call protect and defend right, so that no one has the ability to take away those functions from us and be able to protect and defend them that kind of leads into the space superiority, space control aspect of the mission set. Because, you know, for many years it was kind of a benign environment Like we were building, you know, these billion-dollar satellites the size of buses, right, and you know one of my favorite teammates here in the Space Force, lieutenant General Deanna Birch. She's our lead operator for the service. You know she'll go, these big, fat, juicy targets that are just sitting up in space, because when we designed and launched them we were not necessarily thinking about a contested domain, but it has become that. So now we have to think a little differently in how we, you know, with proliferated constellations and resiliency and all the things that go into that kind of warfighting domain.

0:35:43 - Rod Pyle
And I think, just one more follow-up, Tarek. When Space Force was announced, a number of us were a little confused about what was going to be different. Of course you know it's an independent service and all that, so that makes sense. But having spent a little bit of time around Space Command, I wasn't clear on exactly what the difference was between Space Force's role and what Space Command for the Air Force had been doing for years before that.

0:36:08 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, you know, it's really actually interesting that you asked me that question. I was just in Colorado Springs I think it was last week for the Space Symposium. Do you guys attend the Space Symposium down at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs?

0:36:19 - Tariq Malik
Oh yeah, my colleague Brett was there last week. I had a lot of FOMO because that's one of my favorite conferences to be able to go to.

0:36:25 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, it's a phenomenal conference. I mean the Space Foundation does a phenomenal job. You know Heather Pringle out there, the CEO, so long relationship with you know, with the space community and the Air Force and now with the Space Force. But anyway, at the closing dinner on Thursday evening at the Broadmoor they did a fireside chat with myself as the Chief Master, sergeant of the Space Force, and Chief Master Sergeant Jacob Simmons, who is the command senior enlisted leader for US Space Command, and part of the discussion to the audience was the difference between what does a service do and what does a combatant command do, because we put space in a lot of things right, we put space in a lot of titles and words, and it was our, you know, because we get this question quite often. So we figured, hey, the two most senior enlisted individuals Jake is also a guardian, a longtime mentor of mine. So we got up on stage, we did a fireside chat and we kind of talked exactly through that.

So when you talk about the distinction between the both, you know, a lot of times they say the services organized, trained and equipped. So what does that mean? We recruit, recruit guardians, we train and we develop them, we prepare them, we give them the warfighter ethos. We also make investments and build and purchase right the capabilities that the combatant command needs. Those are that's organized, train and equip, but also it's teaching the guardians, preparing them that they can command and control.

They can integrate these capabilities into the larger joint force and then we present those, if you will, to the combatant command and then, under the authorities of General Whiting, who's a commander of US Space Command, will execute and command and control the forces we represent. So there is a kind of a distinct difference in roles and responsibilities. They're closely linked, especially because of how we were established so close together, both in 2019. General Raymond was dual-hatted at one point for both organizations, but there is clear delineation. But as a service, we are already trained and equipped. But we also are responsible to train and develop to make sure we can execute warfighting capabilities as we present that to the combat command under General Whiting's authority as a combatant commander and I'm not moving to Colorado and I'm not moving to Alabama, I am stationed in the Pentagon and I get asked that question quite a bit too.

0:38:47 - Rod Pyle
I've never seen the Pentagon, but it looks like an amazing place.

0:38:50 - Tariq Malik
I think this is the first time we can say that we're coming live from the Pentagon.

0:38:52 - Rod Pyle
Right, Right oh yeah, we got to have that in the promo. Okay, Tariq I know you've.

0:38:58 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
This is a museum. If you ever want to come check it out, let me know. But there's a lot of phenomenal things to see here in the building.

0:39:04 - Rod Pyle
Yes, finally.

0:39:16 - Tariq Malik
We got a benefit from coming up, so let's take a quick break, we'll be right back.

Stand by.

You know, chief, I really appreciate kind of the overview of what the Space Force does and it seemed like really a pro apropos very good timing that you're here with us for this interview, because this week, as we were talking before we started recording, general Saltzman, chief of Space Operations, released the space warfighting framework for the Space Force and I was burning to ask you about how important having a framework like that was, because I guess one would assume, as you just detailed, like all of the different buckets, that the Space Force goes on to really keep all of us in the technology that I think maybe we take for granted, that is, in space on our daily lives.

You know, keep all that working. But I'm curious how a document like this new framework either consolidates or crystallizes a lot of things Because, as it says kind of here in the description, that it establishes the common lexicon for counter space operations, which sounds pretty exciting. But it details both the offensive and defensive actions that Guardians can do, basically what their actions can be to oversee that space domain there. But I guess what type of? I guess what's the role of a document like this in day-to-day operations for guardians as things change or occur in space.

0:40:43 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, so thanks for the question. We've had a phenomenal couple of years. Like we said earlier, we're just five and a half years old, almost, we're just, you know, we're, you know, five and a half years old, you know almost. And so there's so many foundational things as a service only five years into this journey. You know we get compared a lot to the other services. When you think about, you know, I think the Army and the Marine Corps are going to be 250 years old, you know, this year, and they have battlefield wartime lessons learned, examples, proven doctrine, like all those things that kind of build it out. When you think about a military professional, when you think about you know doctrine and warfighting architectures right, there's a lot there.

From the Space Force perspective, you know we're only five and a half years old, if you will, and we've never, necessarily, we've never had war in space and we don't want that either, right, but what are the documents, like the warfighting construct that we put out to kind of talk about from an integration planning perspective, to communicate to the broader joint and coalition audience of what are the capabilities, what's the common lexicon or the terms of reference when you're thinking about operational planning, when you think about what the Space Force can do. Or also, more importantly, when you think about the Space Force, how do you ask for capabilities, what are the questions you ask, how do you frame those so that we can integrate into the joint force is really important, because we just don't have a lot of the history that it's presumptive that everyone understands it Right. So, capturing our thoughts on terms of reference lexicon what does space superiority mean? What does defensive space operations mean? What does defensive cyber operations mean from a service perspective and kind of baselining across the joint force is really important. And, I'll be honest, that's not only an external message but it's also an internal message as well. Right, young guardians across the Space Force should be reading these documents so they understand why they go to work every day.

Why am I working at 3 am on a Saturday looking at data coming down off of the sensor for space domain awareness? Why is that important? What's the warfighting construct? Where do I see myself in the larger ecosystem? So you know, we've done the warfighting contract you said came out.

We also put out uh earlier this month, uh, space force, uh, doctor and document one which also, right, kind of encapsulates a lot of the papers and speeches and thoughts that General Saltzman specifically has had the last couple of years in a formalized document that now individuals can read and reference and kind of talk about the who we are and what we do. So you know it's been a phenomenal couple of years, but these official documents really help solidify, communicate to a broader audience and also some internally. What are we doing and how are we going to have to, especially if we're talking about the space priority, space control perspective, because we really haven't done that in a wartime environment. But what are we planning for? How do we talk about it? How do we integrate it? That's why those documents are so important.

0:43:55 - Tariq Malik
Yeah, I guess in an emergency you don't want to have to be coming up with that stuff on the fly, so it sounds like it's good to have that already written down.

0:43:59 - Rod Pyle
That's right. So we've seen recent. In fact we reported, I think, last week, on a Russian satellite, yet another cosmos, which means they're not going to tell us what it is that from which a small mass appeared to detach and maybe start heading towards some of our orbital assets. And of course we've seen this before with both the Russians and the Chinese. I assume this is something you track with great care, other than changing the trajectory or the orbit of one of our satellites. If something is threatened, that's vitally important. What can you do and what steps might be taKen in the future to make these kind of assets more defensible?

0:44:41 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah. So you know this is kind of the broader discussion about what are norms of behavior in space Like? What are the international norms? Like? We have pretty good you know, documented and implemented you know norms of behavior at sea pretty pretty good you know, documented and implemented you know norms behavior at sea, maritime, sea law, you know. You know FAA and air traffic control, you know, like, you know there there are things that that pretty Pretty much people understand what is right and what is wrong and there's enforcing ecosystems that allow that to kind of operate effectively In the space domain. To your point, what is responsible behavior If you're going to have an RPO or rendezvous proximity operations?

What is a safe distance? Is that considered aggressive, is it not? These are all kind of discussions that we're kind of having. So a lot of the systems, to your point, when they were designed for an environment where we were not necessarily worrying about those things, but why it's so important now with the future systems that the situation has changed. So you know what counter, you know counteraction, defensive capabilities do we have for them? We don't have maneuver without regret. Now there's some. You know we have a couple of refueling demos that we're going to do.

But as you know right the physics of orbit, you're a little limited on what you can do. There are some maneuvers that you can do. There are some maneuvers that you can do, but for the most part, one of the most important things is us, from a space domain awareness perspective, that when these activities occur, one that we're aware of it, there is no what general solstice talks about operational surprise that we are winning. What is happening in the domain, there's attribution, we know who is doing it, which is also extremely important. So what do we do about the first things? We gotta be able to know that it's happening and we have to have attribution, right. So kind of that, no operational surprise as these things occur.

But this also goes into the other discussion about protect and defend. What are our capabilities to protect and defend? What are our capabilities to protect and defend our resources and assets on orbit other than attribution, a strongly worded demarche against another nation calling them outright for irresponsible behavior. But this goes into, I think General Whiting, at his speech at Space Symposium last Monday I think it was as a combatant commander talked about, you know, fires and maneuvers in space and weapons in space, basically right.

But when you say weapons right. Weapons are not inherently offensive and defensive right. It's how you employ them right. But we have to have the ability to protect and defend the resources of which we rely on, but not only from an economic perspective, but also from a warfighting perspective. So those are some of the discussions and you said when you some of these, you know activities that are occurring. We got to understand that are happening, that we know who's doing it, attribution and then working to make sure that we have TTPs, tactics, techniques and procedures to do whatever we can, but also have the systems in order to protect and defend national assets.

0:48:01 - Rod Pyle
So I'll just bet you guys get some interesting mails and emails from people that have ideas about defensive systems and one for that file which I found. Years ago I was working on a book about space age, a chapter about the lunar module, grumman's lunar module from Apollo, and there was one supposed study by Grumman Aircraft which I have never been able to actually vet fully so it's a little suspect. But supposedly when the Grumman folks were trying to figure out ways to extend the life of the lunar module beyond 1972 in the Apollo program I mean they were going to use parts of it to do the Apollo telescope mount on Skylab. But my favorite one was a crewed orbital spacecraft that would be able to rendezvous with Russian satellites and spray paint their cameras, which I thought was a pretty cool. It's not even a weapon, it's more like a nuisance, I guess right.

0:49:03 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, I wonder what the per diem rate would be when you file your ballot for that job.

That's got to be crazy, yeah, you know, when you think about you know here's the other thing too, when we talk about space superiority, space control, and what are the measures we can take to kind of deny you know an adversary, their ability to kind of maneuver free within the domain, you know some of those actions are not limited to the domain, right, there's kind of three segments when you think about space operations.

Right, there's the on-orbit asset and you know to your point about, you know, that Russian vehicle that was maneuvering maybe close to one of our resources. There's the link. Right, there's got to be a command and control. Right, there's the you know, the EW spectrum and there's a ground station somewhere, right, I mean so when you think about the ground station, the link and the on-overd asset, when we're trying to solve a hard problem, guardians are thinking, maybe to provide the effect that we need, is it necessarily in the domain? There's the things that we can do and you know that's why there's a lot of research on analysis, our intelligence operators, where I try to understand the entire ecosystem and infrastructure of anything that we need to be concerned about, because we're not just going to be limited to the on-orbit perspective. There's a lot of ways to skin that cat, if you will.

0:50:27 - Rod Pyle
All right, we will be back in just a moment. Don't go anywhere.

0:50:35 - Tariq Malik
Yeah, you know, I was really curious.

You know, in the early days of the space age right, there was a bit of a I don't want to say if it was like a scramble, but it seems like each branch of the US military services like had their own plan for how to use space.

You know where each branch of the US military services had their own plan for how to use space, where either the army had plans for reconnaissance or the air force is like, yes, obviously we're going to have pilots, so we should get domain over space. But having an actual space force that has a really clear picture, like you outlined earlier, defined I guess, in what is this? The 21st century? Now, you know it seems to make a lot of sense. But I'm curious if kind of similar to those early days where maybe there might've been a lot of infighting over who gets what domain, have there been any challenges to the space forces? You know organization or outreach to get its message understood? And I'm curious, you know what you know like, like what your answer to that, you know, was to kind of make sure that things continue going smoothly.

0:51:34 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, you know, as an example, when the service set up the first couple of years there was an assessment of what, what investments the other services were making. That kind of fell within the roles and responsibilities of the Space Force and a lot of capabilities were transferred from other services into the Space Force. As an example, the Army had what they call the JTAG system, which was a kind of a tactical theater level missile warning capability that they own the equipment and the soldiers were trained to execute that. When the Space Force stood up the Army transferred that mission and equipment over to us. On the Navy side the Navy uses the MUOS Narrowband Constellation for Sea Communications. That mission set came over to the Space Force and the Army. Again they used the I'm trying to think the Wideband global constellation system, the wgs, who they use a lot of wide band, and they had ground stations, uh wizox wide band silent operation centers where they had soldiers stationed and they would divvy up the bandwidth right to make sure the soldiers in the theater had satellite communications. That mission came over to the Space Force. So there was an initial assessment of the services. All kind of had a little bit of space and then what made sense to kind of come into the service.

But even today there's still investment for some tactical capability. You know, for example, on the Army side, a multi-domain task force, mdtfs, right, that they're investing in. They have some space capabilities that will be organic and inherent to the Army because they also understand the value of what space brings, but it's integrated into their tactical scheme of maneuver, right. So it's not necessarily, hey, you're going to leverage it, but it's not a space force, it's not a mission, but it's a space capability that's going to be organic to the Army and they're going to maintain that.

You know we use it again. You know we think about pilots. The Air Force isn't the only branch with pilots and aircraft. So, right, there are some things that are kind of naturally belong to the Space Force, as we kind of went through this. But also an acknowledgement and we talked about how important the domain is. You know space capabilities underpins lethality of all the services. There are some investments and some things that services will continue to do. But I think, when you think about space superiority specifically, and space control in the domain, freedom of maneuver in the domain, that is squarely within the realm, or responsibility of the space force.

0:54:11 - Tariq Malik
Yeah, you know I'm curious what, uh how, how far that domain you know you see it expanding because, as we know, you know, nasa with their art of his program wants to send astronauts back to the moon. That hopefully that happens in the next uh couple years. But, unlike in, you know, maybe the first space race, where there was, you know, one other competitor, the soviet union at the time, to get there, you've got uh many other nations that are all trying to get to the moon to use it for, for different ways, and I'm curious what role you see the space force playing in in either lunar exploration, lunar security, uh search and rescue. You know that kind of a thing Because it seems like if your domain is space, it just keeps going forever once you get off the earth, even though we use most of the assets here on the ground.

0:54:55 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, you know, for many years the lexicon, when we talked about space, there was like this glass ceiling, if you would, at geostationary right, the 22,000 miles out where a lot of our, you know, communication satellites are, um, and that was kind of seen for many years. You know in the circles, operationally that I that I worked in as kind of like the edge of space, but boy has that changed to your point, cislunar. But I think about just activity on the moon alone. Just, I think over the last at least six or seven months, right, you know, non non-nation sponsored, like commercial, are landing on the moon now, right, when you think about Jared Isaacman, Right, you know, he did this personal commercial spacewalk. Right, think about where we are so.

So the domain, to your point, is really expanding and to kind of think of 22,000 miles as kind of like the edge of space is no longer the case.

So from a Space Force perspective, you know we are looking as more and more individuals are, you know, going out to Cislun or Paso LaGrange points. You know what is our ability to maintain space domain awareness, what are the technologies and the research and development we have to do there, you know, to help align right, you know, especially as NASA and other civil agencies, you know project and you know reach further out into the stars. There's going to be a role for the space force to play there. But but yeah, I mean it, where does it end? Does it end? It doesn't right. And that's the exciting part of this job, um is that, you know, trying to have guardians think about our role right in those dreamers and explorers, um that they're going to rely on us to make sure they can freely maneuver and take advantage of that, um that. So wherever, you know, wherever national interests expand out to, that will be where the Space Force expands out to as well.

0:56:53 - Rod Pyle
You know, Tarek, I'm beginning to get the feeling his job is a whole lot more interesting and enjoyable than ours, and the benefits are probably much better. We need to have a conversation. We have, of course, no qualifications to do anything like that, but that doesn't mean we want to try.

That's like when we wanted to be astronauts when we were young. So here's a question that's been bugging me for gosh decades. I'm sure it bugs you guys too. Are there any preventative or defensive measures that one can take against something like an EMP, which has always been sorry? That's an electromagnetic pulse weapon. So you send a small nuke up to space, it goes boom over a country and everybody's electrical grid and all their electronics go down. At least that's what they say in fiction. I think it's a little dressed up. But how serious is that and how do you address something like that?

0:57:44 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
So you know, for many years, you know, I've I have worked in facilities that were EMP hardened, if you will Like. I've walked through the brass plated doors with the contacts that are rounded and you know the signs that don't step on the contacts right, because they got to stay clean and fresh and make sure we have to close that door right. To protect the internals from EMP on the ground is really important. You know, several of our on-orbit assets right that are strategic in nature are designed to be EMP hardened, if you will. The challenge with that, whether you're on the ground or on orbit, it's expensive and it's really hard to do. So are there ways, strategies, to kind of protect yourselves from EMP? Yes, and you know we have some things, we've made some progress. We have, you know, made grounds, you know some strides there.

But when you think about the cost of launch right, you know every ounce, every pound matters and we talk about. You know every ounce, every pound matters and we talk about. You know where we are with proliferated constellations and you know the, the number, you know number of payloads per launch has just exploded with esper rings right. Think about starlink, right, and the dozens of, you know, micro satellites that they put on orbit all the time. Um, it's kind of hard to have emp hardening right in that kind of construct because it's supposed to be replenished.

But when you think about some of the challenges, and you know I don't know if you're trying to allude to some of the reports on Russia and you know, maybe putting on some capabilities on orbit or thinking about, you know, having nuclear capability as an offensive or just a weapon in general, it would have a devastating impact, right to your point.

Unlike you know it's physics, right. So there, you know, whether it be commercial, civil or military, you know whether it be LEO, MEO or geo-orbit, there's going to be a lot of collateral damage and it would, you know, be able to recover from that from a global perspective would just be unthinkable, right, and we talked earlier. Right, you know space provides such an infrastructure to make us as effective and efficient as we are in agriculture, in finance, in transportation. You know safety, power grids in cities. You know all that would be at risk if there's irresponsible behavior. You know, in the context of any kind of EMP or, you know, nuclear device in the orbit. So hopefully, like that's something we never have to come to, there is some protection that we are able to do, but you know, but for large and most part. When you think about what we rely upon, what is in orbit, large preponderance would not be assured and protected from an EMP.

1:00:37 - Rod Pyle
Something to aspire to. Change of subject here. One of the things I remember when Space Force was first being announced. One of the things Tarek and I spent time doing was disabusing people of the notion that this was going to look like Battlestar Galactica, with guys in Vipers flying around and shooting at each other in orbit. But I assume this is a two-part question. First is I assume that part of your long-range planning is for crewed spaceflight and, if so, would there be a role somewhat like a Space Coast Guard at some point, where you're guarding the lanes in cislunar space and so forth?

1:01:13 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, you know we haven't had really, you know, too many discussions on that, but I think part of it is, you know, watching where civil and commercial go. You know, when you think about you know commercial flights today, right, when there's NASA's launching, right, the military, from a you know recovery, if you will, especially back in the, you know back terrestrial, once they come back in the atmosphere. You know we, the actual United States Air Force, is postured to do any kind of rescue of astronauts, right Once they kind of come back into the atmosphere. You know our ability to be able to do something. You know, in orbit today, organically from the service just kind of isn't there yet we necessarily haven't been charged with that mission. Everything is what the, what the president says that this is a mission of the service. So we haven't been given that yet.

But there has been some. You know, on the back of the napkin, you know, at the end of our Friday talking about man, you know what's going to happen when we have increased tourism in space as we travel. You know out, you know, beyond low Earth orbit. You know what is our roles and responsibilities to do that. So it's exciting to think about all that. But I think to your point. I think that mission set would probably start with the United States Space Force. You know, as a responsibility, and then probably you know, as that prevalence continues to grow, I mean, who knows 50, 60 years from now where we're going to be? You know to your point, you know.

Is there a space guard, coast Guard equivalent? I don't know, but I assume that the discussion would start with the United States Space Force. And again, we think about some of that. We watch and see where commercial and civil are going. We're just going to wherever national interests extend out to. We will answer the call. But it's exciting to think about it. It really is Space guard sounds. Really to think about it. It really is Space.

1:03:09 - Tariq Malik
Guard sounds really sci-fi. That's really cool. You know I'm surprised it's taKen us this long, chief, to get all the way to astronauts and flying in space and guardians and whatnot, because you just said earlier how Nick Hague just returned from the space station I guess the first Space Force Guardian to launch and land and I guess Mike Hopkins swore you know transitioned over to the Space Force for the first anniversary in 2020. But you know, I'm curious. You know what is that path for astronaut guardians to go? And it sounds like there's other work that guardians are doing with NASA already.

1:03:51 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, so you know, obviously you know Colonel Haig right now. Like I said, he was the first guardian to actually launch, you know, and went up for a second visit to the International Space Station. I'm really proud of you know Colonel Haig representing. But it's really important to note, right for the audience and everybody else, that you know NASA is a civil organization and the Space Force is a military organization. But, right because of the talent you know, when they're looking for astronauts, all the services have the ability to nominate candidates to become astronauts with NASA and work for NASA. So while Colonel Hague was on International Space Station, you know that relationship, you know he was doing experiments, research and development on behalf of NASA. He was doing outreach and things on behalf of NASA, if you will. So it's a great partnership, great relationship, having a guardian up there. I've got to tell you, you know there were a couple of interactions that the Space Force had with Colonel Hagel while he was on the space station and I thought when I worked in Colorado and I look out my window, I would have Pike's Peak in the background, his office on the International Space Station. If you know, I'm telling you, like Rod, if you think that your windows out behind you have a view. Talking to Colonel Hagel when he's on the space station was just phenomenal. So you know it's inspiring, right for the kind of have that relationship and allowing him to continue exploration and research and development and things from the civic perspective. You know that's amazing but you know that's just. You know one guardian that's working with NASA.

I spoke earlier today to one of our sergeants, an enlisted member. William Wallace is his name. He has his degree in biology and he partnered with an organization. He just spent some time out in Arizona at Biosphere 2. And he was doing research on kind of algae growth right and ability.

You know, can it grow in Mars or lunar? You know formations and the dirt that's there. You know in microgravity conditions like what does that look like? And he spent a couple of weeks, you know, working with NASA and other researchers. You know leveraging his biology degree but also his leadership and understanding of you know command and biology degree but also his leadership and understanding of you know command and control and space operation because he worked in mission command for a little bit there. So I had a chance to talk to him earlier today. And another great example right of guardians in the Space Force, kind of partnered with NASA, you know non-military related endeavors. But just that passion for space and the ability to kind of work as a team is always really inspiring and amazing opportunities for them to do that.

1:06:35 - Tariq Malik
Yeah, I was looking at that study that Sergeant Wallace was part of and it looked like because I mean, just to put it in perspective it's like a blue-green algae diet supplement for astronauts, you know, and it sounds like stuff that you could apply on Earth for supplements across the board. I mean, that seems like stuff that goes far beyond even space work.

1:06:56 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
There too, that's right Now. William did tell me this morning it doesn't taste very good, but as a military member you know how to remind him. A little bit of hot sauce goes a long way.

1:07:11 - Rod Pyle
Sounds like somebody who's eaten some MREs in your past.

1:07:13 - Tariq Malik
You need your sriracha spirulina, if I pronounced that right.

1:07:18 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
I've had my share. I've had my share. Have you had a chance to get out to Biosphere, by the way? I have not. I have not. The team does a really good job trying to get a strategy for where I get a chance to travel and engage and do outreach and kind of figure out where's the next evolution, what opportunities and relationships we can build. I have not had a chance to get out there yet, there yet well, if you do, it's well worth it.

1:07:46 - Rod Pyle
It's it's a little bit like tomorrowland for space, um, but it's it's quite an impressive thing and it's amazing that they they did it had the success they did. Yep, um, do you have, uh, anything you recommend in terms of where people can go to get a real sense of the space force story and and what's happening now and in the future?

1:08:07 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
or how to say yeah, you know, I think you know when you go. You know we have the spaceforcecom, spaceforcemil, we have our websites and you know we've been working really hard. You know there's a pamphlet, if you will, it's called Space Force 101 that has some information in it and there's a link out on our sites. We try to be really good at consolidating, whether it be, you know, videos, interviews, news stories, you know, in a central location that allows not only guardians that are serving and their families, but also, for, you know, people who are interested in, like, what is going on. What is General Saltzman talking about now? What are some initiatives in the way forward? What are the successes? You know the service you know is doing and you know and highlight stuff like Sergeant Wallace and Colonel Haig, but usually we try to push people as a digital service, try to push them out to, you know, social media and our websites, try to get linked up and kind of where we're going and what we're doing, where we're going and what we're doing.

1:09:06 - Tariq Malik
I have to say that your picture and presentation of the Space Force Chief is much more what's the word accomplished than, I guess, how Netflix put it in that TV show that they put out. So it's nice to know that it actually works and that it's not just a comedy on TV for sure.

1:09:24 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, I appreciate that, and I will not be seeing a kokomo today did you happen to watch the show when it was on?

I did. I watched the first season. I didn't watch the second season, um, but, but I will tell you that you know certain of the and I won't I won't reveal it, but there were certain nuances in certain parts of the show that had me laughing so hard. Are they reading my emails, like what is going on? But yeah, I mean, some of it was just very much tongue in cheek. But I'll be honest, right, you know, even, and I invited you to come visit the Pentagon.

But when you walk down, you know each service in the Pentagon has a hallway and we have the Space Force hallway and there's nods to the pop culture of the Space Force. Right, there's a reference to Star Trek, right, and our Delta. You know NASA used the Delta way before you know, years ago. You know there is something from the Netflix show. You know, there's Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I mean, there's some references about.

You know, when you think about, space has been ingrained in our, you know, science fiction pop culture for so many years, and now to have a space force, a little nod to it. But we have come so far and you know the last five and a half years we are looking at like the okay, um, maybe that was appropriate, you know, four and a half years ago, right, but now we've got real guardians doing real work for the nation and we're looking to see. You know how do we start to tell that story as well? But I, I get it all the time on on a pop culture. You know, you gotta embrace it, right. I mean it's kind of cool. But it allows me right to kind of pivot to the, you know, hey, ha-ha, but let's talk about what we're really doing.

1:11:18 - Rod Pyle
Right, this is serious work. Well, sir, I want to thank you for joining us today for episode 157, and I apologize in advance that we're going to call Space Force, because you just have to say it that way. I grew up in the 60s, you know. Everything sounded like that. Where can we? You kind of gave us an idea already, but is there any other spot online that we might want to go just to see what you're up to? Or your department?

1:11:46 - Chief Master Sergeant John Bentivegna
Yeah, so I have myself as a chief. The office of the chief master of the Space Force, you know, has a Facebook site, an Instagram site Also. You know, the Space Force in and of itself, like I said, as a digital service, we're really trying to leverage what is the way that we can communicate to masses, you know, in a platform that allows them to do that. So you know, if you go to the websites, go to the social, you know in a platform that allows them to do that. So you know, if you go to the websites, go to the social media sites, that's probably a really good landing point and now we'll have your links to wherever you got to go. But we really try to highlight and say this is kind of where we are, what we're doing, easy to access from your phone or wherever you are, to kind of tell the Space Force story and really brag about Guardians and brag about the things that we're doing. That's really important and I'm honored to have the chance to be able to do that.

1:12:34 - Rod Pyle
Excellent, Tarek. Where can we find you playing Intergalactic Warrior these days?

1:12:37 - Tariq Malik
Well, you can find me at space.com, as always, rod, also on the X right at Tarek J Malek on Blue Sky 2. You can find me on YouTube at SpacetronPlays, and this weekend you will find me on Broadway because I'm going to go see a show. It's going to be exciting and help my daughter build her Pinewood Derby car for Girl Scouts. What is this? With all this?

1:12:57 - Rod Pyle
leisure time when you should be over at space.com bringing us more news. And, of course, you can always find me at pilebooks.com or at adstramagazne.com or on some social media, although not as much as Tarek and maybe sooner, the Space Force Recruiting Depot near you, who knows? Remember you can always drop us a line at twis@twit.v. That's T-W-I-S@twit.tv. We welcome your comments, suggestions and ideas. New episodes of this podcast publish every Friday on your favorite podcatcher, so make sure to subscribe, tell your friends and give us reviews. We're counting on you. Don't forget. We're also counting on you to join club twit this year. This year is still young. You've got time. Besides supporting this show and others on the network, you'll keep us all very happy and feeling loved and warm electrons headed your way. Finally, you can follow the TWiT Podcast network @Twit on Twitter and on Facebook, and Twit.tv on Instagram. Gentlemen, thank you for joining today. This has been a real pleasure and I hope we see you again. Thanks a lot.

1:13:59 - Leo Laporte
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