This Week in Google 803 transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for Twig. This Week in Google, jeff Jarvis is here, paris Martin and we're going to talk about this new Stargate project. Is it just a bit of puffery to boost up the new president, or is there actually something going on? A half trillion dollar spend to create AGI in four years Wow. We're going to talk about Elon Musk. Is he really the gaming genius he says he is? And then what happens when the company that makes those screens on the Walgreens refrigerators turns them off? I'll give you a hint Nothing. It's time for Twig next Podcasts you love.

0:00:40 - Speaker 2
From people you trust.

0:00:42 - Leo Laporte
This is Twig. This is Twig. This is Twig this Week in Google, episode 803, recorded Wednesday, january 22nd 2025. Dad scrolling, it's time for Twig this Week in Google, the show where we, for the next two episodes, we'll talk about Google and then it's off.

0:01:05 - Speaker 2
It's over.

0:01:06 - Leo Laporte
We're done. No, google will still be in the mix when we become intelligent machines. They have a little bit to do with AI. Jeff Jarvis is there? Professor Emeritus of Journalistic Innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism, craig Craig, craig, newmark City University of New York. Now we gotta really, uh, we gotta. We need a chorus singing mont, mont, mont claire new jersey, because that's where he is now also at stony brook we could do that, suny.

Uh, he's also the author of so many great books, the latest the Web we Weave. Hello, jeff, oh, he pulls the bookshelf in. It's much easier than just getting an individual book. Just pull the shelf in, there you go. Very nice, very nice plug. Also with us, paris Martineau. She writes for the Weeknd, do you?

0:02:10 - Paris Martineau
have a. You need his little newsstand with the. The covers, information covers. Is there's no print version of the information is there? There is not, but there. Well, I mean, I think once for some anniversary we made a big hardcover book of a variety of their, like best articles from last decade it looks so good, it really would make a nice book, I don't, I mean it definitely would. We have some incredible art yeah, yeah, you should think about.

I mean look at the onions doing a print version again that's true, but ben collins is a madman, so yeah, no kidding hey, what's the status on the onion buying alex jones property?

0:02:43 - Leo Laporte
does that? Is that still up in the air? Yes, up there. As far as the uh, the judge sent it back to the bankruptcy um had whatever he's called abrogado um and uh, we haven't had a resolution but we info wars was still interviewed uh, I think it was Otorio.

0:03:03 - Jeff Jarvis
He interviewed one of the proud boys. Who the judge?

0:03:08 - Leo Laporte
No.

0:03:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Alex Jones yeah.

0:03:11 - Leo Laporte
So he's still running InfoWars.

0:03:12 - Jeff Jarvis
I think so yeah, Do I dare go to it.

0:03:15 - Leo Laporte
No, he's trying to halt the sale. That's just a mess. Anyway, I still wait for the onions version of info wars. I think that'll be a lot of fun. The big story this week is an ai story, I think. Uh, you think it's bs, jeff jarvis? I'm talking about the stargate project. What's hysterical is this is a big announcement, uh, from president trump open ai soft bank, which is putting in most of the money oracle, mgx who are they? Their private equity company? Right, they have a hundred billion in uh assets and with a help from arm, microsoft, nvidia and uh and oracle. And open ai the technology partners to, to which Elon Musk replies they don't actually have the money. Show it. This is hysterical.

0:04:09 - Paris Martineau
Well, that didn't stop you, Elon. That's hysterical.

0:04:14 - Leo Laporte
I mean this is like a big victory for President Trump. And here is his Doge guy saying yeah right, sure they don't have the money. Saying yeah right, sure they don't have the money. Um, the actual uh results of this is some people say nonsense. Let me say what they're proposing and then you can. You could shoot it down, mr jarvis. They claim they're creating a new company which will invest half a trillion dollars over the next four years building ai infrastructure in the us. They're going to start in abilene, texas, where oracle has a network operations center almost done. They'll, they say, they're going to begin deploying 100 billion of that 500 billion immediately. This infrastructure will secure American leadership and AI, create hundreds of thousands of American jobs I do question that that's a lot of jobs and generate massive economic benefit for the entire world. This project will not only support the reindustrialization of the United States Are you kidding me? This is the opposite of re-industrialization but also provide a strategic capability to protect the national security of America and its allies. I mean, what it really is is take that China, you're putting money into it. We're going to create our own.

I am referring you now to MG Siegler's Spyglass newsletter, where he's a a friend of the network, he. He wrote for tech crunch now as a venture capitalist, um, and he's a little skeptical. He says why four years the length of trump's term? Why half 500 billion? Unclear, but it's a nice round number that sounds big. Why 100 billion to start? This actually seems like an amount the group might actually have access to it, despite what elon uh says. Um, some of the money will come from softback. Softbank has 30 billion, but mostly the way sunsan works at softbank is borrowing. He actually owes 150 billion dollars right now, so he could presumably borrow more. I don't know. That's how it works in the big money circles. You owe a lot of money. Good, we can lend you more. Softbank $30 billion. Mgx is a $100 billion fund, but not all that money is fully available.

Mg says they also can mobilize more capital as needed. Oracle has only 11 billion in cash and open. Ai says cash. What's that? He says they're a money burning machine. At the moment they don't have. They have some money in the bank, but they definitely aren't going to put it in on this. Um, he says this is going to go in abilene, in the, in the network center which oracle has been building and open ai had previously talked about leasing. By the way, that's part of the news here is that open ai is no longer just a microsoft joint, that open, that microsoft has said to them we want right of first refusal. But I think the subtext is you're killing us here? Yeah, we've, you could go get somebody else's network resources. That would be nice. Oracle wants part of this. Mg writes with this news, there's a pattern starting to come into view here. Previously announced deals and projects are getting roped into this. Quote new initiative um, he says the oracle element is particularly interesting because this is open ai acknowledging they have a new cloud partner.

0:07:54 - Jeff Jarvis
That's that's true, um so you have the information today saying that oracle's basically in trouble. Oh, really, yeah, and it should. It should merge with Salesforce. Oh, yikes. So this plays into it a bit. Larry Ellison's been very buddy-buddy with Trump, and that's why they're at the heart of this, but are they really healthy enough to be at the center of all of this?

0:08:17 - Leo Laporte
Well, of course, the announcement of this was in the White House, at the podium, and you see there the president, with Larry Ellison over his left shoulder. That's Masayoshi Son, son of SoftBank, and Sam Altman In the suit. In the suit, yeah. So this is the announcement. It's certainly look, it's a political move, it's a win for Trump. Makes him look like and, by the way, he rescinded joe biden's executive order on ai safety which, which basically said very little yeah, I don't think that's a big deal.

0:08:53 - Jeff Jarvis
There wasn't anything to say.

0:08:54 - Leo Laporte
Yeah it mainly said hey, if you're gonna be a big company doing ai, you better test it for safety first.

0:09:01 - Paris Martineau
Presumably they can't have that of course.

0:09:05 - Leo Laporte
Well, I, I you know, you know me, I'm an ai optimist, right, and you got sand in your socks, I guess I and, by the way, I'm gonna- get the sand guy on the show I'm gonna book that guy so you can hear his oh my god, can we?

0:09:21 - Paris Martineau
we're gonna have to do a full drum roll.

0:09:23 - Jeff Jarvis
We'll both come in our binary noery, no, no, no, he's got to come on with a paper bag.

0:09:28 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, a voice modulator. He'll have a voice modulator.

0:09:31 - Jeff Jarvis
It's what's my line.

0:09:32 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, you don't remember that I don't think you know who this guy is.

0:09:36 - Benito Gonzalez
to be honest, but he will sound like this Peggy Cass for $20.

0:09:44 - Leo Laporte
Uh, pegging cast for 20. He's an excellent. So this, my friend, is an ai accelerationist. There's all sorts of people I, I am kind of more of that opinion like look, let's see what happens. I don't think ai is something to be feared, and I think it is. I think we have a shot at super intelligence at agi. I don't see any problem with pouring billions of dollars into this. Who's going to lose if it fails? That's up to the investors.

0:10:07 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, that's up to the investors Just investors. They went in and I don't think it's a mortal danger to us. But that's the thing is, these AI jerks keep on saying we could destroy mankind. We're so powerful, we're going to have a PhD scientist next week. To have a PhD scientist next week. It's just such crap and I'm a fan of AI and I hate how they ruin the field with all their macho, testosterone filled BS.

0:10:32 - Leo Laporte
Well, I also worry that, look, this just is a lock-in for these giant companies. But and I mentioned that on windows weekly and Richard pointed out as as correctly yeah, but who else is going to do this? You're not going to start it up in a garage. These are very expensive projects. It's like nuclear fusion. It's not just any old guy on the street gonna invent it.

0:10:49 - Jeff Jarvis
Miss straw is doing very well with not that much money. Deep seek is supposedly doing well, but we've got to decide whether we leave it or not. Uh, you can do a lot with the open source models from meta.

0:10:59 - Leo Laporte
Um, no, this is not necessarily meta. Calls it open source. Well, okay, open, but it's meta. Fine, that's a big, freaking company. Deep seek is what China right? Yeah, I've heard they're pretty big straw.

0:11:17 - Jeff Jarvis
This is French. Have you used mistral? No, but I've used things that use it.

0:11:23 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I think there's a there. There is a point to scale in this anyway, um, but I just think it's hysterical that elon musk is now subtweeting this with they don't have the money, softbank has well under 10 billion dollars, under 10 billion dollars, secured. I have that on good authority, um, and then altman, it responds to elon saying wrong, as you surely know, funding secured allman says, want to come visit the first site already underway.

This is great for the country. I realize what is great for the country isn't always what's optimal for your companies, but in your new role I hope you'll mostly put us first. I just love it when these guys tussle no I don't, don't you love when these guys tussle wipes? Uh, of course sam and and elon have been feuding ever since they founded open ai. What do we think? What's now that we're firmly in the trump?

0:12:20 - Paris Martineau
administration. What do we think? What's now that we're firmly in the Trump administration? What do we think is the over under before this whole tech boy bromance blows?

0:12:30 - Leo Laporte
up.

0:12:32 - Paris Martineau
Well, vivek's already out. Um, and, like you know, big vcs all standing together for the inauguration, all patting each other on the back in these sort of press conferences. When do we think that all starts to fall apart? Because it can't?

0:12:53 - Leo Laporte
go on forever. Sam altman said we wouldn't be able to do this without you, mr president. So I think a certain amount of this is what we've seen throughout silicon valley, which is is, is, uh, bending a knee right to the new administration entirely.

0:13:09 - Paris Martineau
I mean, it's the same thing that tiktok was doing, but I also have to say I don't think, uh, trump understands this.

0:13:17 - Leo Laporte
He thinks spain is part of bricks. I mean, I don't think he really understands any of this, but he sees this as a good thing and it's probably gonna get him some money. You know they'll invest in trump coin. But fine, I think he's being played a little bit by these guys to to get this thing off the ground, because I think it is important, don't you?

0:13:38 - Paris Martineau
what is the us government's responsibility with this? What did trump have to do with good question.

0:13:44 - Leo Laporte
Launch of this why couldn't it have happened? He says I'm going to help a lot through emergency declarations because we have an emergency uh, keeping AI in the US. He also says he, he will, he will grease the skids. Government will make it possible for them to get the production done very easily. Um, so you know what? It's good to have the president on your side if you're doing something like this. I don't see any taxpayers money going into it, so I don't have a problem there. This is these big companies putting and investors putting in their money. It's a. I think of it as a moonshot.

0:14:26 - Jeff Jarvis
Fine, but I think Paris just asked the exact right question. This is investor money. They can put their money into it. They can make their own choices. I don't see what the government role is here.

0:14:36 - Leo Laporte
Well, greasing the skids permitting and all that stuff, Well, you know, make sure that they get to build their thing in Abilene. Yeah, so they get some data.

0:14:46 - Jeff Jarvis
What's so special about data centers with NVIDIA chips in them? That's not a big deal, you can build those, and there is local law involved and the federal government just can't step in and say no, no, no, no, no, no. All of your zoning is ridiculous, because I say you must build this Right. So that's ridiculous. And my main point here was twofold one this big deal announcement it already existed, it was already underway, it's already yeah it kind of was yeah, so point one.

0:15:14 - Leo Laporte
But what's different is the. All these big companies have kind of decided it's like matter, let's join hands to make this thing. Yeah, well, and you know how all matter has gone.

0:15:24 - Jeff Jarvis
Once you got larry, you're okay then the other thing is I go, I take you, sir, I take you, uh, your honor, to line 79. I'm old enough to remember the trump foxconn factory that was going to bring untold jobs yeah, that didn't really happen, yeah oh my god, was that the last in the last trump term?

0:15:43 - Paris Martineau
you would have asked me a million times when the fox con factory happened and I would have guessed why?

0:15:49 - Leo Laporte
or didn't, as a matter of fact, or didn't? Well, didn't? Yeah, in fact, if you go to the russian post story.

0:15:53 - Jeff Jarvis
They have a picture of the dome and it just sits there like a north korean hotel, never done yeah um so in 2017, town spent millions to clear land.

0:16:05 - Leo Laporte
Yep uh, foxconn uh had committed billions but never spent any money on it, except for building this, the orb and I mean a lot.

0:16:15 - Paris Martineau
So many people got pushed out of their homes because their land was blighted as part of this.

0:16:20 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, hey, sam alton, you want an orb? You can have a big orb now, yeah doesn't he already have an orb?

0:16:25 - Paris Martineau
Isn't he orb-like? And this is what concerns me.

0:16:28 - Leo Laporte
I guess about Stargate. For that project, local and state governments spent $500 million to buy land bulldoze houses, build infrastructure.

0:16:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, that's increasing the skids to the taxpayers' expense and detriment, with no accountability and nothing happened. So why do I look at this with a jaundiced eye and I think all the press that's gone after, oh, it's a big deal, those stories are all over. Can anybody just look back a few years and see what the history of this is? This is, this is and this is not a terribly political thing. This isn't like all the other topics we could talk about we're not talking about here because it's technology show, not a political show. But this is technology and there's a history here. And, for god's sake, journalists, look back now. The um, the information did have.

0:17:14 - Leo Laporte
I have it down online here's, by the way, what the post says the original promises in that fox can plant were never destined to be kept. This was a quick win for the GOP. Foxconn was hoping to placate the Trump administration to stop it from hiking import tariffs on the iPhones, so this was very similar in the sense of currying favor with the administration.

0:17:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Get a press release, get a shovel in the ground.

0:17:39 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think that's the thing that's so striking to me about all of this is that it is kind of astounding how early on like we are in week one of the trump administration and all of these tech ceos are trying their absolute hardest to I don't know curry favor with trump in the most blatant and simple way possible, like it's not even particularly complex or like involved, it's just they're like.

0:18:05 - Speaker 2
Well, if tiktok is back, thanks to you mr president yeah, it's not even money.

0:18:10 - Paris Martineau
It's not even like some that we know of yet.

0:18:13 - Leo Laporte
It's just compliments but I feel like he's really into that, right, but I well. So I think in their minds they think they're manipulating him. They're doing what he need, giving him what he needs so that they can get what they need. And to the extent that what they need is to advance AI, I'm all for it.

0:18:32 - Jeff Jarvis
No, I think what they're getting is not that Leo.

0:18:33 - Leo Laporte
Let's kiss the ring if that's what we need to do Well.

0:18:36 - Paris Martineau
Openai's goal is not to make AGI Leo, it's to make what? Is it? $100 billion or something like that? What was the figure?

0:18:47 - Jeff Jarvis
That's what it's trying to do um. The ai is somewhat secondary to that sorry well, that's a cynical point of view.

0:18:52 - Paris Martineau
We don't know that I mean yes that is literally in the contracts with microsoft. Yes, it is they will have achieved agi when they can make a hundred billion dollars.

0:19:01 - Jeff Jarvis
That was the information story. Um, uh, leo, but I don't think it's they. I don't think they want greased skids. They want to think. What they want is not to be attacked. So whatever they have to do to make buddy, buddy right, real goal not, has nothing to do with ai. It has. Don't. Come after us, don't regulate us, don't do other things, don't cause investigations, don't consider us. Uh, silicon valley, we're your friends, we'll be okay. Lay off, pay attention to somebody else. That's the goal of this. By the way, credit where it's due. Uh, paris's colleagues at the information line 74 do have a story in which they try to bring some perspective to this what stargate means and what it doesn't.

0:19:44 - Leo Laporte
MG says it puts a timetable on the deal 2030. Would be interested to know which side wanted that. Perhaps both, but probably open am more so, and this is C underlines this. My guess would be it formally does away with that whole breakup when AGI is achieved. Funny business, it relieves the pressure for open AI to declare agi. In other words, microsoft and open ai have kind of broken up a little bit. And so all of that thing about well, agi, that was all just contractual, like how long do we have to pay you for these free azure credits?

0:20:18 - Jeff Jarvis
and they set a time, a time date, I mean a financial date of 100 billion in revenue well, there's also a re-negotiation of the cap table coming up with the switch over on open ai, so that's part of this whole, but I think you can look.

0:20:31 - Leo Laporte
We don't know. I think it's possible to interpret this as just sam altman doing what he needs to do to get this work done. You think he doesn't want to create ai, I don't, I'm not sure he doesn't need.

0:20:42 - Paris Martineau
That certainly does. Well, I think the reason why they're doing this is because OpenAI, for like months, has been really disappointed in Microsoft's ability to make enough servers available to it and Microsoft's saying the same thing yeah, we can't provide them with enough, it's costing us a lot.

0:20:59 - Leo Laporte
Go ahead and see other people, that's okay, but I don't think you can impute their intent from that. I think that we don't know what their intent is. You know, some people think that sam altman's a con man. There's no such thing as agi and he's just trying to make as much money as he can, as quick as he can. I don't think that's the case. Personally, I think he genuinely believes, rightly or wrongly, that agi is achievable. The super intelligence is around the corner and he, he's trying to clear as many obstacles out of the way as he can. And and I say go good on you now. Maybe he'll fail. If he's a if, look if he, if it's a con game and he's a con artist, well, join the club. There's quite a few around right now. But I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and I hope that he does go forward and create better and better ais. Whether we get agis to me irrelevant.

0:21:53 - Jeff Jarvis
We're going to get better and better. Ais, yeah, it's ridiculous well, it's irrelevant. I mean, if we do, that's great okay, it's relevant because, because they're, they're setting a false bar, they're making a false promise, they're changing the nature of the discussion away from what it should be and it's harmful. I think it's harmful to their own technology, but they're doing it to get venture money, which is a Paris's point.

0:22:15 - Leo Laporte
Right Now. The information does have a lot of coverage on this and Amir Afradi is very good on this subject. Is he skeptical? Are they he and Anissa Gardizi? Are they skeptical?

0:22:31 - Paris Martineau
about, yeah, I don't know.

0:22:33 - Leo Laporte
I mean, they kind of touched on a lot of the points we hit here which they pointed out that 10 months ago that the Stargate thing was already in the works. Yeah, that's fine.

0:22:42 - Paris Martineau
No, it's somewhat unrelated to this. They even say at the end uh, um, that trump who announced all of this, that basically all these ceos that went out of their way to thank trump, saying that stargate could never happen without him, but they didn't elaborate. Uh, and one answer is that like it's, like you said, maybe cutting through red tape.

0:23:07 - Leo Laporte
Maybe it's just a little bit of a kiss the ring. You know, some people have pride. Some people are willing to bend the knee and a pragmatist like Tim Cook or Jeff Bezos or all of these guys, they're pragmatic. They're saying well, if we need to bend the knee, we'll bend the knee. No harm, no foul.

0:23:24 - Speaker 2
I'm curious what you've discussed this. There's going to be a new one in four years.

0:23:26 - Leo Laporte
It's not a big deal.

0:23:27 - Paris Martineau
It's worth noting also that Go ahead. Sorry. It's worth noting that Oracle's partners also broke ground in Abilene, Texas, last year.

0:23:37 - Leo Laporte
So this has been going on for a while. Yeah, though, jeff, that Oracle may be in trouble.

0:23:42 - Jeff Jarvis
I think that's interesting Before you go to there. Let me just ask one question here, because Microsoft I want to talk about both companies. Microsoft is largely out of Stargate. Microsoft is the one company that wasn't in the inauguration. Yeah, they're a tech partner, so have you talked about this? On Windows Weekly, where Microsoft stands in the administration, they don't seem to feel the need to go bending the knee. Every other big company is, but they're not, are they?

0:24:09 - Leo Laporte
That's an interesting point. Yes, Satya Nadella was not at the inaugural.

0:24:14 - Jeff Jarvis
He hasn't had to seem to be paying homage, he doesn't seem to be in trouble for not doing so.

0:24:22 - Leo Laporte
I wonder. One of the things that's happened at Meta it's happening in some of these other companies is the employees are up in arms. Trump and Musk did have dinner with Satya at Mar-a-Lago yeah.

0:24:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Satya's done something, but he's not doing the whole thing All right. So now go to your point about Oracle. This is also reporting out of the information Paris. I'm owed some commission here. Thank you, this is three information plugs in a row, I mean listen.

0:24:53 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, this was a true value kind of story, which is a story type we do, kind of sizing up the potential value of companies, written by my colleague, anita, and I haven't had a chance to read this, so you guys should explain it to me.

0:25:07 - Jeff Jarvis
So I read the beginning of it, but basically it says that Oracle. It's not clear that Oracle has the resources to stay in the game. That's what struck me Now, whether that means they should merge Salesforce why, would Salesforce want Larry Ellison and all the troubles that come with larry ellison? I don't understand that, but that's what really struck me as as the thing that I didn't quite fully realize. Um so oracle being part of stargate is a rescue job on oracle?

it's not that's not oracle bringing its resources to stargate, it's stargate bringing its hype to Oracle. Let's not forget that Oracle is still hosting TikTok because Oracle was going to be the rescue for TikTok in the first Trump ban. One possibility is that Oracle does some kind of acquisition to help it generate more cash. One candidate would be Salesforce Interesting. Ellison has a decades-long relationship with Benioff. Can you imagine those dinners? Former protege and a merger would position Benioff as Ellison's successor do you think it's like successful.

0:26:14 - Leo Laporte
You think it's like they're like sitting there with cigars planning how they're gonna run the world like what at these that?

0:26:22 - Jeff Jarvis
point. That's what. That's what benioff and I've seen him do it at davos. He is a real major mocker at davos huge. I gotta tell you his party is is the party of parties at davos.

0:26:36 - Leo Laporte
Well, why is salesforce not involved in this stargate thing? By the way, what do you think of the name stargate? Feels elon musk coded it's very elon musk, isn't it? The stargate show was about a a time traveling gate that you could go through can we send elon through it directly to mars?

0:26:57 - Jeff Jarvis
get rid of him I don't know.

0:27:00 - Leo Laporte
All right, let's take a break.

0:27:01 - Speaker 2
Uh, I don't know if there's much more to say about this is one of those things where it's interesting could mean something, could mean nothing.

0:27:08 - Leo Laporte
It could be the foxconn plant in wisconsin. Uh, it could be skynet. It's unknown, and by skynet I mean the beginning of the terminator. You know, like this is where the machines take over, and when I'm 90 years old, I'll say yeah.

0:27:23 - Jeff Jarvis
There was one thing I was wrong about.

0:27:26 - Leo Laporte
That was stargate 2030 that's only five years off 2030, you won't be that old it can be done by then.

0:27:36 - Jeff Jarvis
So stargate wasn't time travel where were they going?

0:27:38 - Benito Gonzalez
mo in stargate they were going somewhere, weren't they? It was, uh. It was a portal to another planet far away.

0:27:44 - Jeff Jarvis
Another planet. Oh well, good, Elon, I was confusing it with the show of my youth Time Tunnel.

0:27:51 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, Very similar.

0:27:52 - Paris Martineau
Time Tunnel Do you remember that? No, I just think that's a great name.

0:27:58 - Benito Gonzalez
Oh, what a great show that was. It really sounds like it's from the 50s.

0:28:01 - Paris Martineau
It does.

0:28:02 - Benito Gonzalez
It kind of was I. It's from the 50s it does.

0:28:03 - Paris Martineau
I mean I'm assuming it's black and white. They got a big paper tunnel and they're like that's time some oh no, it's two guys.

0:28:11 - Leo Laporte
It was a little bit like. I mean, it was the same idea. It was 1966 to 1967.

0:28:18 - Jeff Jarvis
Here I'll play you just a little, a little special effects are going to be really crappy, here we go the time tunnel is an American color science fiction.

0:28:27 - Leo Laporte
TV show. Oh, this is something I'm narrating. There's the time tunnel, right.

0:28:31 - Paris Martineau
Oh my God, Better than I ever could have imagined.

0:28:33 - Leo Laporte
And they jump into it and then they go somewhere.

0:28:36 - Paris Martineau
Okay, wait, I'm going to watch this. It's such a good show.

0:28:40 - Leo Laporte
It's so cornball.

0:28:41 - Paris Martineau
I really have just got to make a good list of all the shows you guys have Bad guys, come through the time tunnel, is it?

0:28:47 - Jeff Jarvis
Quantum Leap, is it?

0:28:48 - Benito Gonzalez
Quantum Leap. Is that the idea?

0:28:50 - Leo Laporte
It's basically the idea is Quantum Leap, yeah, but it predates it.

0:28:52 - Jeff Jarvis
It's also it's man from UNCLE with time travel.

0:28:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, that was that same era, right, yeah, yeah.

0:29:06 - Jeff Jarvis
And then they get to different it only was a season.

0:29:07 - Leo Laporte
Wow, they go to different places but it affected your life.

0:29:10 - Jeff Jarvis
I'll never forget it. You decided to go into technology here's the thing that should be the theme for our show this could be the new theme for intelligent machines sorry, but you know this isito.

0:29:24 - Benito Gonzalez
That does sound modern, that does sound like a modern throwback.

0:29:27 - Leo Laporte
In the year 2025, three intrepid explorers decided to chase the future. They entered the Intelligent Machines tunnel Maybe Could happen, could happen. Machines tunnel maybe could happen, could happen. Wow, now I do want to watch that show, but I don't know where you'd be able to find that. You have to go wherever you found that other weird wild heart thing wild at heart a perfect david lynch film that everybody should watch, and and it's available illegally.

0:30:04 - Paris Martineau
Oh, I didn't realize this.

0:30:06 - Leo Laporte
They mocked Time Tunnel in Austin Powers.

0:30:09 - Speaker 2
Yes, oh yes.

0:30:10 - Leo Laporte
This is exactly what happened in the Time Tunnel.

0:30:12 - Paris Martineau
Wait, leo, that is exactly what's happening now.

0:30:16 - Jeff Jarvis
Leo, you can buy it on Amazon Time Tunnel.

0:30:18 - Leo Laporte
What? Oh, I'm buying it. Yes, oh, I'm buying it.

0:30:22 - Jeff Jarvis
You can buy it. It's on sale right now. You can buy the SD for 49 cents.

0:30:26 - Benito Gonzalez
Is it VHS tapes or something? No, no.

0:30:31 - Paris Martineau
Wait, and it's the scientists of Project TikTok, what that's the most time tunnel that's spelled differently.

0:30:41 - Leo Laporte
Oh, you can get it on Blu-ray for your new TV Paris.

0:30:43 - Paris Martineau
That'll look really good 1966.

0:30:44 - Jeff Jarvis
TV. James Darren was the star.

0:30:45 - Paris Martineau
Oh, you can get it on Blu-ray for your new TV Paris. Yeah, that'll look really good yeah.

0:30:48 - Leo Laporte
James Darren was the star. Oh wow, wow, wow Okay.

0:30:55 - Paris Martineau
I love the description for episode one. Dr Tony Newman is stunned to have successfully survived a trip through the time tunnel. But that survival may be short-lived when he realizes he's landed aboard the titanic.

0:31:08 - Leo Laporte
oh no it's gonna sink so it is his project. Tick, tock. What now? I really this is like the glitch in the matrix, where we're in the matrix.

0:31:21 - Jeff Jarvis
You realize.

0:31:22 - Paris Martineau
This is all a simulation is going to be in this TV show somehow. Yeah, it's really going to just be a straight time tunnel.

0:31:33 - Leo Laporte
Dr Tony Newman decided to make sandwiches in the time tunnel.

0:31:37 - Jeff Jarvis
What do you think of Tony's hair there Look?

0:31:39 - Leo Laporte
at that, dr Tony Newman. When Tony and Doug land in a spaceship headed for mars, what they meet? A man, an alien, named elon they go to the alamo oh yeah. Yeah, we know they do all sorts of stuff.

0:32:01 - Paris Martineau
British spies captured by the gazpacho. Gazpacho wow was marjorie taylor green around then.

0:32:10 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, probably when a scientist claiming to construct a time tunnel 10 years earlier, offices is seen.

0:32:18 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh wow, they're sent back to 1956 to investigate they try to convince sitting bull and custer that the oncoming battle in Little Bighorn will have devastating consequences for both sides.

0:32:29 - Leo Laporte
Nobody wins, nobody wins All right. They encounter a ghost at some point In addition to all of this, not a good TV show without ghosts.

0:32:39 - Paris Martineau
But you have time travel. You don't need to encounter a ghost. You could go back to when they were alive. I believe that.

0:32:50 - Leo Laporte
And I'd like to know if the chat has any thoughts about this. This is the first occurrence of a round portal that you go through to be transported somewhere else.

0:32:54 - Jeff Jarvis
The stargate the most recent, by the way, leo, to make you feel better back in those days. One season, how many episodes? Episodes do you think it was? I know, but go ahead and tell me 30.

0:33:03 - Leo Laporte
30 episodes 30 episodes, that's when Hollywood wasn't lazy. Oh my.

0:33:07 - Paris Martineau
God, I'm sorry. I'm going to read the last episode description. The time travelers materialized in 1978 in a small New England town taken over by aliens who planned to drain all oxygen out of the Earth's atmosphere. That's jumping the shark. Oh, this isn't even the first alien episode that they have.

0:33:27 - Leo Laporte
wow, I've got to watch all 30 of these I guess paris is february coin pig in our youtube says you know, doctor, who's tardis predated this and I guess in a way, the tardis is a portal it is but that was a machine?

I don't think, because it was a machine you got in and you traveled in the time in the TARDIS, so I don't know. We could debate this on and on, but HG Wells was a machine. Well, the time travel is not. Yeah, that's been around for a long time. I think you could go back to the days of the Odyssey and the Iliad. No, you can't.

0:34:05 - Jeff Jarvis
All right, let's take a break, we will come back. And uh, now you know why this show is not going to be called as we can google anymore.

0:34:08 - Leo Laporte
Google what's that? You know it. But it is interesting that google is not part of stargate, nor is anthropic nor is amazon nor is amazon right.

0:34:19 - Jeff Jarvis
So the big players? Nor is nvidia, right, yeah, okay, let's.

0:34:25 - Leo Laporte
Let's stay here for once more a second well, wait a minute, because I see this note from paris.

0:34:28 - Paris Martineau
We've got a wrap, oh okay, at 8 pm we've got two and a half hours.

0:34:35 - Leo Laporte
What are you doing at 8 pm?

0:34:37 - Paris Martineau
what are you doing at 8 pm? I'm going to a club in bush bush which of course says one and hip

0:34:44 - Leo Laporte
yeah is bushwick hip now? Because it wasn't hip when I was a young man?

0:34:50 - Paris Martineau
it was really hip. I guess it's still hip, but it's queens played out it's queen no, it's next to okay, it's in brooklyn, it's next to queens, it abuts queens and and therein I I rest my case that is, that's fair. Listen, all fair points. I would no normally not be caught dead in bushwick, but a friend is playing a show and so I must support cool, yeah playing what?

0:35:15 - Jeff Jarvis
what? Playing an accordion could be.

0:35:19 - Paris Martineau
Uh, I think bass guitar, though.

0:35:21 - Leo Laporte
Okay, accordion would have been better yeah I'll bring that up when I see her our show today brought to you and I'm boy, are they sorry? By z scaler? No, they're not. They're very happy they are. They are happy, we're happy to have them. They're the leader in cloud security.

Enterprises have spent so much money over the years on perimeter defenses, firewalls, you know. And then, of course, you have to have a vpn so your employees can get through the firewall and work on the company network. Has this helped? No, breaches continue to rise, ransomware alone up 18 year over year last year and a 75 million dollar record payout in 2024. You do not want and of course, the headlines for when you get hit by ransomware, just the worst, not to mention reputational damage, damage with your customers. These traditional security tools don't not only do not help, they expand your tech attack surface. Because you have for the vpn, you have to have public facing IPs, right, and how many times have we seen those VPNs be exploited by bad actors? And guess what? It's easier than ever because they're using AI now to write exploits and then when they get in your network, they get. They look around, they find all this dirty secrets. You don't want the public to know about your emails, your databases, and they send them out right out through the firewall, because the firewalls struggle to inspect encrypted traffic at scale. They can't see what's going on.

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0:38:40 - Paris Martineau
I'm going to decide in the next 24 hours, but I will make.

0:38:45 - Leo Laporte
Make a decision. We'll miss you if you're not here, so I'm not here, yeah right, you see, what kind of birthday is it without us your? Your great grandparents, granddad, it's my birthday, so, um, that's two day, two shows. Hence We've decided to eliminate the. I think it was really an anchor and when we started this show 800 episodes ago, it made sense, say, this week in Google, they were changing the world, but they've less and less.

0:39:18 - Jeff Jarvis
They still have a lot of others, but they have a lot of others that are more interesting.

0:39:21 - Leo Laporte
Yes, and actually I'm very interested and intelligent machines. We should say it's not just AI, it's robotics, it's computing at the edge, it's the internet.

0:39:30 - Paris Martineau
It's big tech companies also. We're still going to talk about a lot of the stuff we talked about Still big tech. Yeah yeah, google has decided A question from the chat, though briefly is are we going?

0:39:46 - Leo Laporte
I could throw away all 805 episodes. God, no, the history it's always been intelligent machines.

We just didn't know it that's true google has said screw you, eu, we are not going to comply with your fact-checking law. I'm a little bit on their side in this. Oh yeah, uh. Google has never done fact checking on search results. That's nuts. But the eu says, uh, they have to uh in order to comply with this new uh code of practice on disinformation. It started as a voluntary set of self-regulatory standards to fight disinformation, but soon will become mandatory. I have to say I think the EU is damaging itself by really trying to regulate these companies.

0:40:41 - Speaker 2
Oh whoa, I'm not against it, that's not a usual, Leo.

0:40:47 - Jeff Jarvis
Have you taken another walk on a beach?

0:40:49 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, well, it just just. I mean, this is ridiculous. I agree with you to tell a search engine oh no, all those results, you have to uh, you have to put some fact checking on them. Which?

0:41:01 - Speaker 2
is impossible. I I have no sense of scale.

0:41:04 - Leo Laporte
I thought it was sensible for meta to abandon fact checking. I think community using community notes is fine. Twitter does that or x does that.

0:41:12 - Jeff Jarvis
I think that works this is the kind of thing you turn on morning joe, and they're, they're tisking. Oh no, they're getting rid of fact checking, no, but it's a search engine.

0:41:20 - Leo Laporte
Um, your search engine will turn up bogus stuff.

0:41:24 - Jeff Jarvis
It's up to you and fact checking, lots of researchers saying it doesn't work very well, even when it happens and you don't want an official truth, which is what zuckerberg has always said, and I agree with that google is using community notes on youtube.

0:41:39 - Leo Laporte
Um, I didn't know this, but they say certain users not all users can add contextual notes to videos and they think they're going to do more of that. Uh, google will continue to invest in current contact moderation technologies. I didn't know they were doing that. Um, I don't want a. I want a search engine to be completely agnostic. I want to be an index of what's on the internet well, it has to make judgment because it has to.

0:42:04 - Jeff Jarvis
I mean, this is this is go back to our old friend Matt COTS. There are efforts to manipulate it and they have to get around. They have to recognize those efforts and they have to compensate for those efforts to manipulate them with bad results.

0:42:18 - Leo Laporte
But the goal should always be to produce search results that are.

0:42:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Relevant to your request.

0:42:26 - Leo Laporte
Relevant and not spammy. But yes, but they may be wrong.

They may be misinformation. I mean, you may find the flat earth society. Should they have a fact check on that? That says, well, scientific consensus is the earth is round, that's dopey, yeah, and it, by the way, it also, in my opinion, is patronizing to the user. It's like, well, you might not know, the earth's not flat, so we better tell you. And should Google be the one telling us this? I don't know if I trust Google to tell me what's true and what's not. I don't think that's their job. I'm not convinced they could do a good job of it. Pagerank makes a lot of sense, the way it was construed, which is that pages in the old days rose to the top. This is Larry Page's insight. It was brilliant. It rose to the top based on the number of people who linked to them.

0:43:18 - Jeff Jarvis
And how they linked in turn to them. So there was a credibility score.

0:43:23 - Leo Laporte
And that's basically saying you're all voting. If credible sites link back to other sites, then those sites are it's a wisdom of the crowd credible yeah, it's the wisdom of the crowd.

It was brilliant and it worked and that's why we all used google with black site and alta vista went away. Um, it is too bad. People try to game that and I think google's completely justified in doing everything they can to get around the gaming, but not to the degree that they start making editorial judgments. I I think that that's a bridge too far for me, agreed yeah, isn't it even a practical impossibility? Well, it's also impossible. Yeah, that's what meta. You can't moderate at scale.

0:44:14 - Paris Martineau
It's a little different for a social network because, I mean, I think it is a lot more achievable for a social network, I think, when you're talking about something where, with a social network, the way that users behave is distinctly different. You're consuming specific content in feeds and whatnot and distributing that content in certain ways, a search engine I mean. I think about my habits, of course, which are insane in comparison to a normal consumer or user of a search engine, but I do a lot of very maniacal, methodical research using search engines and I don't need a search engine trying to editorialize the results for me right.

0:44:51 - Leo Laporte
I'm trying to realize them for myself that's right, because you're an intelligent human being and I really don't have an intelligent machine yeah, but I don't think big tech should be responsible for nannying us. I don't trust them to do it anyway. Who wants mark zuckerberg to tell me what's true or not? They don't want nanny and they want to blame them when anything goes wrong. Well, that's the other side of that.

0:45:08 - Jeff Jarvis
Trust him to do it anyway, who wants mark zuckerberg to tell me what's true or no? They don't want any, and they want to blame them when anything goes wrong well, that's the other side of that and I, but you don't get ready, get ready, it's time, for it's just an, an outcropping of moral panic, benito you're sleeping.

0:45:26 - Benito Gonzalez
The files keep disappearing for some reason, I don't know. That sounds like a moral panic to me Someone's trying

0:45:34 - Paris Martineau
to silence us.

0:45:40 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, well, that's the concomitant. I worry about Section 230 in the new administration because there's already noises about you know. We've got to get rid of Section 230. All that really is doing is saying moderate the way we want you to moderate, and that's a direct violation of the first amendment. I wonder how kathy gallus felt when the supreme court ruled nine to nothing that national security trumped um the first amendment. With regard to tissue.

0:46:06 - Jeff Jarvis
Wrote about it I'm sure she was upset uh, she has a piece up that tech dirt. I mean yeah, no there's another, another scotus news. Yeah, um, where was it?

0:46:20 - Leo Laporte
by the way, what is going to happen to tiktok? Because now, uh, the president is positive for 75 days, but he, he says I want half.

0:46:30 - Jeff Jarvis
Talk about government owning a mechanism of speech. That seems like a bad idea. It's unconstitutional as hell in this country.

0:46:41 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think it's unclear at this point whether or not he means him personally owning half, the US government owning half, or a third party that's American owning half. But either way it's going to be, who does that mean owning half, the us government owning half, or a third party that's american owning that?

0:46:49 - Leo Laporte
we, but either way it's going to be. Who does that mean? It feels like he thinks the government. He says, first of all, it's worth a trillion dollars, that it's only worth a trillion dollars because of us and that we should have half of it well, and americans own a huge chunk of ByteDance already.

Right, yeah, his buddy, jeff Yass, owns 15%. I liked what this is kind of relevant Ryan Broderick said in his Garbage Day post. He talks about Steve Bannon and he says that now I'm not a steve bannon fan, but I have to say bannon, as a as a cynic, um kind of has said something that I think is is pretty true, which is politics is downstream of culture. You agree, like we vote for who we vote for, downstream of what the culture is doing and feeling and thinking that may be because of media and how they are.

Oh well, wait, no, that's the second corollary, and culture is downstream of media. Media primarily creates culture.

0:48:02 - Jeff Jarvis
No more, no more. That's the. That's what. That is exactly what the internet has changed. That's what I wrote books about. It's now the culture speaks for itself, and that's the huge change and that's what those who held the power resent.

0:48:14 - Speaker 2
So much I don't like that.

0:48:15 - Jeff Jarvis
No, I hate that.

0:48:15 - Leo Laporte
That's why they want to own TikTok and X and all of that Bingo, bingo. So yeah, he also says I think it was him who said the reason they didn't like tick tock is because tick tock held a mirror up to american culture. He said all of that stuff on tick tock wasn't new, tick tock didn't create it or they just exposed americans for what they are and people hated it. They said we got to stop this, ban tick tock, but you can't ban people. This is our culture. Yes, ban people.

0:48:57 - Paris Martineau
This is our culture. Yes, hello, I under. I don't want to. You said it all, leo. You did say it all. I was just sitting and basking in your uh, you know, we should do a bit one time where we all pretend like you've frozen due to the starlink you could kiss my ring.

0:49:06 - Leo Laporte
Kiss my ring anytime. Bend the knee if you will I don't want to. I under no circumstances want to hand it to steve bannon, but I know that's a good point but but the well this is, and it's also the putin point of view, right, the russian point of view, but it is a good insight. I don't think steve's an idiot. I think he's a cynic.

0:49:25 - Jeff Jarvis
I think he understands uh, paris, is this your official nihilist critic?

0:49:29 - Paris Martineau
I don't know.

0:49:31 - Leo Laporte
I don't know enough to be able to do that he's, he's destructive, oh yeah, um, and he wants to burn it all down and he unfortunately had the insight that you can't how to do it. And and he's, he's, he's become the media in his own, as Alex Jones did for InfoWars. And I guess we should say, as we do for our audience, right, I don't consciously try to influence our audience, I don't think, oh yeah, you do.

0:50:03 - Speaker 2
It's okay. No, I just say what.

0:50:04 - Leo Laporte
I think and you can decide, and you hope that they agree with you.

0:50:07 - Jeff Jarvis
That's all you can do.

0:50:08 - Leo Laporte
No, I actually don't hope they agree with me.

0:50:10 - Paris Martineau
I would I have you guys on if I just want an agreement I want, yeah, but I mean you have to understand that by hosting a podcast and doing this for as many decades as you have 20 years you're creating a parasocial relationship with your audience, where they're predisp, they're oriented towards agreeing with you.

0:50:31 - Leo Laporte
I'm not trying to, they wouldn't have been listening for this.

I understand that, but I'm definitely not trying to be persuasive ever, because I'm not convinced of my own points of view. By the way, you may have noticed that I don't live in certainty, and so a lot of what I say is just well, what about this? And I'm not trying to be persuasive, I'm really trying. I think we as a group get to the bottom of these things. That's the goal, and I do think that's one of the most interesting things about, I don't know.

0:51:02 - Paris Martineau
Being on this show and hearing your opinions wax and wane over the past year is like I mean that earnestly, is like it's a very unique and, uh, I don't know. Dare I say it's like special thing to be able to speak confidently about things but then also be open to change your mind I am, though I should say, selling buttons that uh wwd.

0:51:23 - Leo Laporte
What would leo do? And if any, if anybody wants? To buy those buttons just a hundred dollars each. No, I don't. I really don't want everybody to agree with me. I want to be, I want you to. You know, I challenge you guys because I want you to disagree.

0:51:38 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, no, that's true that's you, I want you to talk me out of it all right.

0:51:43 - Leo Laporte
What else should we talk about so?

0:51:45 - Jeff Jarvis
if I may, if I may suggest, because you've got one blue sky story in here and there's other blue sky stories below and there's a lot of really exciting development going on around blue sky.

0:51:52 - Leo Laporte
So I'm so bored with blue sky really, oh jesus, you haven't skated in months.

0:51:57 - Paris Martineau
Leo, you can't be bored with it.

0:51:59 - Leo Laporte
I skated a month ago how many skates does a man? By the way, I was watching msnbc for my sins last night and it was the handoff between rachel maddow and uh odon lorenzo donald, he just, he just said the cheek of instant he's on now can I just say it is so old hat for the boomer to come on and say how does this internet thing work?

0:52:24 - Speaker 2
and that's basically what was happening he said what do you?

0:52:26 - Leo Laporte
call those things she. She, by the way, knows perfectly well they're skeets, but wasn't willing to say it on TV, don't you think, jeff?

0:52:34 - Paris Martineau
Did you see it?

0:52:35 - Leo Laporte
I didn't see it. He said what do you call them scoots?

0:52:39 - Paris Martineau
And she said I don't know, I don't know. She said she knows. Oh, I love that. Actually she was trying to get her to say skeets.

0:52:49 - Leo Laporte
He was that actually.

0:52:50 - Jeff Jarvis
She was trying to get her to say skeets. He was trying to get her, but he's pretending because that's gotta be, he's not. I just followed him. Rachel maddow told me to join blue sky last night and it only took me 24 hours to figure it out this reminds me of when I taught.

0:53:02 - Leo Laporte
Regis philbin had a tweet, yeah oh boy, is there a video of that oh yeah, you can watch it no, no it was me um, it was actually. It was kind of fun what is this? Thing. He literally had no idea, uh, what twitter was.

0:53:22 - Paris Martineau
No, I think that's the perfect person to tweet that it is, and he was an old guy and what was cool.

0:53:29 - Leo Laporte
What was cool about it, um is he was really excited. He called his wife and said Joy, joy, they're responding to my tweets. Have you ever sent a text message? Never, okay. So it's kind of like that.

0:53:46 - Paris Martineau
Have you ever sent a text?

0:53:48 - Leo Laporte
message and he said never to everybody who's following you. You've got a lot of followers. You've got hundreds of thousands of people who watch your twitter account. So if you type something on twitter, all of those people will see it. Well, who's been talking to these people? I'm telling you.

0:54:02 - Speaker 2
I'm telling you well all right, I want to be a part of you're on. This is the web page, the twitter web page.

0:54:05 - Leo Laporte
Now you can tweet with your phone. You can tweet with a lot of this. So you're on. This is the web page, the Twitter web page. Now you can tweet with your phone. You can tweet with a lot of different devices, but you can also do it right from the computer. So you see, there it says what's happening.

0:54:14 - Jeff Jarvis
Why are his arms of his chair so high? Hey, what's happening? I don't know.

0:54:19 - Leo Laporte
He also loves, as you can tell, Notre Dame this was his actual office, which was kind.

0:54:31 - Jeff Jarvis
I need to know what he says. Well, you can see it, leo, you have to give us some tips for the lower third.

0:54:35 - Leo Laporte
I didn't write the lower thirds believe me. Gelman wrote the lower thirds, I'm sure.

0:54:40 - Paris Martineau
Look at how he's typing. Is he a haunted pecker?

0:54:42 - Leo Laporte
One character at a time.

0:54:46 - Jeff Jarvis
With a shtick between every letter.

0:54:51 - Paris Martineau
Okay, this is good, oh my god oh my god, he can't spell leaving you've got an extra u in there.

0:55:00 - Leo Laporte
I misspell leaving. It's like you know, they know you really did it. I love that he immediately goes to trolling yeah, no, it's true, this was the day he announced his retirement.

0:55:11 - Speaker 2
Oh really.

0:55:12 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, this is perfect. This was actually. This tweet was his announcement in the public. Holy crap, wow, regis. Underscore and underscore.

0:55:21 - Speaker 2
He retired. It took him a while, I think six months later, but this was Right, so I'll put it. It was kind of a sad moment. Everybody's very upset at the show Because you got to show down OK now.

0:55:30 - Leo Laporte
Ok, now, now. This is a chance you have before you press that button that says tweet, just review it.

0:55:35 - Paris Martineau
Remember everyone can read about you.

0:55:40 - Jeff Jarvis
Banger, banger, banger, banger I think that's a perfect tweet.

0:55:42 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I do too. Press the. Press the click the tweet button. Where is that tweet button? It's on the screen.

0:55:47 - Benito Gonzalez
Click the tweet button he's going to put his mouse up.

0:55:56 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, just click with it.

0:55:58 - Speaker 2
It says be sure to keep your mouse on your desk while tweeting.

0:56:02 - Leo Laporte
It's done.

0:56:03 - Benito Gonzalez
It's tweeted. It's done. See that.

0:56:04 - Speaker 2
I just tweeted.

0:56:16 - Leo Laporte
I'm sorry the sound is so off the uh, I don't know what's going on with the sync, but and I'll show you how you can send a private message. So he did after this I mean, he really did do that tweet and and he literally got because it was already the Regis and Kelly account there are, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, maybe millions, following him. He started to get all these responses and he was, he was like blown away and he called his wife. He says joy, joy. I just tweeted and there's all these people and they were all saying, oh, we're sorry to see you go, regis, and all that stuff. A week later he got off it because I think the twitter experience.

It wasn't just going to be people saying nice things, it was everybody it was.

0:56:51 - Jeff Jarvis
There's a regis account on twitter 17 000 hours on tv and counting well, he's passed, so stop me I don't think. Joined december 2013.

0:57:01 - Leo Laporte
Oh, well, that was about that time last one last tweet is 2017 yeah, this was 2011, february 1st 2011 that I uh taught him how to tweet 13 years ago and he's passed a few years ago. He was a great guy I really like great.

0:57:16 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, he was a sweetheart and how many celebrities did you teach basic internet skills to?

0:57:24 - Leo Laporte
that's the only one really. I feel like where would I meet celebrities? They Really I feel like this is something you probably when would I meet?

0:57:29 - Paris Martineau
celebrities. I feel like this is the sort of shtick that you would have done more often I could have If I had moved down?

0:57:35 - Leo Laporte
You know, I did a radio show in LA for years, like 18 years and if I had moved down there there probably would have been some people. There are guys down there. I met a few of them who that's what they do. Them, who that's what they do. They teach celebrities how to use technology. I don't think we need that anymore. That's what I was saying with this whole lawrence o'donnell thing is stop playing the dumb baby boomer and never heard of an internet. You know that's old hat. Yeah, you don't. You don't need to do that anymore.

0:57:58 - Jeff Jarvis
People know it's okay, in the chat I just put up the new card for intelligent machines that would have been good when I was blonde.

0:58:06 - Paris Martineau
That's good, don Rickles Regis.

0:58:08 - Leo Laporte
Philbin and Paris Martineau yeah which one am I.

0:58:13 - Paris Martineau
I think you're Miss Piggy.

0:58:14 - Leo Laporte
Miss Piggy, no, no, that's you, that's you. I'm joking. Uh, I could be. I'll be Rickles. It looks kind of uh out of it in that. Uh, all right, so what else?

0:58:25 - Jeff Jarvis
you want to talk so. So let's take a break.

0:58:26 - Leo Laporte
You're watching, hold on a second blue sky. We're starting about it, but we'll finish. I'm turning into region much exciting news.

0:58:33 - Jeff Jarvis
Amazing 80 years old you're like regis.

0:58:37 - Leo Laporte
You would go leo, what's a gigabyte? What is a gigabyte? I'm turning into that. I think I am. What's a scoot? What's a scoot? What's this scoot? How? What do you call it when you scoot? Is it scoot? You're watching this week in google with jeff jarvis and paris martin. I'm glad you hear it. So what it? By the way, it is skeet, is it? Or do we know they hate?

0:59:01 - Paris Martineau
well, jay graber jay hates it the company of blue sky hates skeet what are you gonna do, though?

0:59:06 - Leo Laporte
it's skeet? What are you going?

0:59:07 - Paris Martineau
to do. It is skeet though.

0:59:08 - Leo Laporte
It's skeet.

0:59:08 - Paris Martineau
They don't like it because it's vaguely pornographic. It is definitely pornographic.

0:59:13 - Leo Laporte
Oh really.

0:59:14 - Paris Martineau
I mean, yeah, I'm not going to explain what it means, but it's definitely pornographic.

0:59:19 - Leo Laporte
See, that's one thing that will never die is explaining to baby boomers what sex is. That's good.

0:59:25 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, that's going gonna be good forever forever that one never goes.

0:59:29 - Leo Laporte
So, uh, so it's, it's sexual, skeet is sexual oh yeah, do you want me?

0:59:34 - Speaker 2
to explain.

0:59:34 - Paris Martineau
No, I'm just curious, I just want to know. Yes, it is is it related to haktua.

0:59:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, it's kind of related, I mean, in a way, never mind stop cause cause and effect, I'd say stop folks.

0:59:48 - Leo Laporte
Use your imaginations. I am going to do some content moderating right now, all right, so what's the news on Blue Sky? Again, I will reiterate I'm bored with it. They're trying to recreate Twitter.

1:00:01 - Paris Martineau
No, we don't need Twitter anymore. It's like Twitter, but better. Honestly, I still have fewer followers on blue sky.

1:00:10 - Leo Laporte
And I do on Twitter. I'm not talking about modern X, I'm talking about old Twitter.

1:00:14 - Paris Martineau
I'm talking about prime Twitter.

1:00:17 - Leo Laporte
Regis Philbin era Twitter. Yeah, it's pretty good.

1:00:20 - Paris Martineau
I don't know I get incredible engagement on blue sky.

1:00:23 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, I agree, I agree, and Twitter is going way downhill. Blue sky has its own photo version and now Mike McHugh, who we like, has created Sky Talk.

1:00:33 - Leo Laporte
Mike McHugh is the.

1:00:34 - Jeff Jarvis
Flipboard guy, right, flipboard founder and he loves so he has created. You're going to like this. He used ActivityPub to create a new social browser called Surf and he used that, on the spur of the moment, to create Sky Talk a Blue sky, tiktok answering Mark Cuban's challenge. Because Mark Cuban said I'll invest in somebody to create a startup to compete with TikTok. When it disappears, it gets ruined.

1:01:01 - Leo Laporte
Sky Talk- is what he's calling it.

1:01:03 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, it's not open for everybody yet, but he built it. It's not line 93. You can go see that. And it's Surf, surf is the platform yeah okay surf is built on activity pub ape at proto or activity pub.

1:01:18 - Leo Laporte
I think it's a build on activity problem because blue sky is using the at pro protocol activity pub is mastered you know, yeah, I'm gonna put.

1:01:26 - Jeff Jarvis
That's the first name I'm gonna put on our list of who I want to get on the show, because Mike is a really nice guy.

1:01:30 - Leo Laporte
I love Mike. He's been on our shows before and he founded Friendster. Right, was it Friendster? No, he found it. No, no, no, no, no, no. He did the thing that Twitter bought. That was the newest thing.

1:01:41 - Jeff Jarvis
No, no, you're thinking. No, that's.

1:01:49 - Leo Laporte
No, no, somebody else. That's the friendster guy. You're forgetting the name. What's his name? Mike mckew. He's an american. He founded, uh, flipboard. Yeah, that's the big one. And tell me, he did, tell me, I remember. Tell me, um, never attended college, really, yeah, but he clearly can code, so, um, so tell me about this, uh, so should I follow this sky talk?

1:02:10 - Jeff Jarvis
should I follow it? It's a proof of concept.

1:02:12 - Leo Laporte
How do I? I don't even see a way to follow it, because it's basically a new thing.

1:02:18 - Jeff Jarvis
Join the.

1:02:18 - Leo Laporte
I'm a little confused here waitlist surfsocial that's for sure leo laporte, so this is a browser surfsocial, I believe, is a social browser. Okay.

1:02:30 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm also on the way, do you?

1:02:30 - Leo Laporte
have an existing federated account. Yes, macedon. Yes, blue sky. Yes, threads. Yes, flipboard. Well, I do, but I don't wait, sky talk.

1:02:40 - Paris Martineau
The list you just put up is just a list of videos. Is this different than blue sky recently rolled out that you can add? A video yes, add a video tab to like your sidebar or the lower bar on your phone and just basically have tiktok, but of blue sky videos so to do this, you've you follow videos on blue sky with hashtag sky talk I mean, if you want to use the SkyTalk feed which we're looking at, otherwise you can just add this is the video technology that Blue Sky created, right.

Yes, but there is a different way to get these videos other than just doing the hashtag SkyTalk. They recently announced that they're going to just have a. You can see on your left hand side of your screen that you have a like bar with all the different sections of the website. They're adding one that's going to be a video one that you can over here and yeah, and then it'll just be native like tiktok that's actually smart.

1:03:43 - Leo Laporte
I would feel much better if they made at proto, I mean if they really released it and allowed people to federate. In fact, I would say we would have our own TwitSkyTalk if that were possible. I would do that.

1:03:57 - Jeff Jarvis
So if you, go to the Discord I put in the story from the Verge that explains Surf. The app sees three kinds of feeds Anything from ActivityPub, which includes Mastodon Threads, pixelfed.

1:04:15 - Leo Laporte
Anything from AT Protocol, which includes mastodon threads, pixel fed, anything from at protocol, which includes blue sky and any rss feed.

1:04:17 - Jeff Jarvis
So it's just a feed reader, but it's a feed reader with activity pub and you can search for fields by topic, publisher or creator. You can curate your own feeds by combining with other feeds. Then you can share those feeds which other people can combine and recombine you know know, Flipboard supports ActivityPub. Yes, it does. Mike's been great about this.

1:04:31 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, all right, we're going to get Mike on. Put a pin in him, will you so?

1:04:37 - Jeff Jarvis
this is also the discussion we had last week about the FACACTA, I think right now, because I can't figure out what it is, free our feeds. But I said last week I want to hear what Mike Masnick says about this and Mike Masnick wrote a very complimentary piece about it About surf, about no, about free art feeds Okay, even though I still don't understand what they're spending $30 million on. And he's trying to be and he's being nice, he's being Masnick, but what he's saying basically is good, blue Sky can't build its own federation. Somebody else has to build something on the AT protocol. So I'm glad somebody else is building something on the AT protocol.

1:05:16 - Leo Laporte
But Blue Sky has to allow you to federate. That's the problem, right? Nobody's done that.

1:05:22 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, once you get enough federations, then it won't matter.

1:05:26 - Leo Laporte
Dustin in our Discord says it seems like an incredible sleight of hand open washing If it doesn't matter. Just like dustin and our discord says seems like an incredible sleight of hand open washing if it doesn't federate. It's not really decentralized, I agree. Yeah, I agree. That's what cory doctorow says. He's like I'm not moving to blue sky until there's a way I can move out of blue sky that's, but cory's involved in this free our feeds thing.

1:05:45 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm I still right for you about what they're spending the money on, what they're doing with it. It's a lot of money but mike's, mike's point is they're they say they're going to build something on top of at that will make it federated, hallelujah okay, and now if you look what mccue's doing, if mccue is cooling your bridge among the protocols, that's potentially a very big deal yeah so I've applied.

1:06:08 - Leo Laporte
You have. It's a wait list right now.

1:06:09 - Jeff Jarvis
I did, got a nice website.

1:06:13 - Leo Laporte
Our social connections have been locked up in separate, self-serving social networks. These networks pull us into a continuous scroll of sensationalized stories and controversies. Well, that's what we want, I would like to point out. That's what we want.

1:06:27 - Speaker 2
That's what makes people use it yeah.

1:06:31 - Leo Laporte
I mean, you don't want a boring feed.

1:06:33 - Jeff Jarvis
But you want more control to not be. I'm so because Block doesn't work anymore on Twitter. It's really awful. I'm so happy on Blue Sky because Block actually works right.

1:06:44 - Leo Laporte
Well, you know there is. These movements come and go, but I see this on Reddit More than a thousand subreddits have now said no more X-links on our subreddit and to be clear he means links to Xcom, not cross-links, which are often referred to as X-links.

1:07:06 - Paris Martineau
I thought that the first five times I saw that announcement in Reddit and then I realized oh no, they're talking about Xcom. Yeah, x, the everything platform.

1:07:13 - Leo Laporte
You can't put a link to an X post on these subreddits and I think that that's good. Yeah, I think the Nazi salute sealed it for a lot of people. Yeah, even though you could credibly say no, it was just.

1:07:28 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh. No, it was. He was just doing the Roman thing. As Dietzeit said, a Hitler greeting is a Hitler greeting is a Hitler greeting. Yeah, but we're not political here, so we'll move on.

1:07:38 - Leo Laporte
Well, it's germane, if not? German oh, it's not German yeah, all right, so surf Okay. But when I go back here to blue sky and I look at the, the blue sky, what does he call the new sky talk, sky talk it's boring.

1:07:57 - Jeff Jarvis
Uh, yeah, he was a proof of concept. He's trying he just he put it up really quickly to say yeah it works.

1:08:02 - Leo Laporte
But I'll tell you why.

1:08:03 - Jeff Jarvis
It's boring because there's none of that stimulating controversy right, it's got to feed, it's got, it's got to keep it going, it's got to keep. Not controversy, no, no, no, no, it's not controversy, it's fun things that you like. I like you here. That's bikinis for the rest of us that's true.

1:08:20 - Leo Laporte
Where's the bikinis mike where? Um no, I think what I? I believe it or not. I think Steve Bannon nailed it. This needs to reflect our culture. This is how our culture is created. Movies at one time, tv at one time was our culture. You know, when everybody went to work the next day talking about Johnny Carson, that created a culture. Now, I would very much like to see that in a social network.

1:08:51 - Jeff Jarvis
But here's the thing, Leo.

1:08:52 - Leo Laporte
And that's why Black Twitter was so important, right?

1:08:54 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, speaking of which, I want to plug a friend's book just out. Meredith Clark, we tried to tell y'all, is the expert on Black Twitter, and her book just came out from Oxford University Press. Meredith is a brilliant professor.

1:09:07 - Leo Laporte
She's Black.

1:09:07 - Jeff Jarvis
I hope she is Black out from oxford university press, meredith's brilliant professor. She's black. I hope she. She is black, okay, and she wrote. She and others wrote the key paper when I held the um black twitter that event yeah, she was a key, the key organizer for this. Okay, uh, there she's brilliant. I just just got it. It just came, so I recommend highly.

1:09:23 - Leo Laporte
Meredith is brilliant, um I will read that because it's culturally I think fascinating, but but.

1:09:29 - Jeff Jarvis
But here's the thing, leo.

1:09:30 - Leo Laporte
This is why I devoted the last 10, 15 years of my life to it and I was a member of an earlier diaspora on Twitter. It was called Geek Twitter Right and that really was real.

1:09:39 - Jeff Jarvis
Right. But here's the key Culture was synonymous with mass and that's what's not, that's what's wrong, and I celebrate that and so there's going to be no single, unitary view of no that's tiktok, that's culture, that's why tiktok is so great, because you're in the tide potty culture that's your culture, right, you know?

1:09:59 - Leo Laporte
whatever it is, uh and I'm being facetious obviously it's mostly very positive it is is. And it's scared. How did you?

1:10:09 - Paris Martineau
feel during your 12 hours of no TikTok. Leo Did your hands shake.

1:10:14 - Leo Laporte
No, paris no, I didn't really miss it. But I have to say Instagram is not a good replacement. Instagram Reels are not a replacement for TikTok.

1:10:22 - Jeff Jarvis
I've been a little bit of Paris. I was lost and had nothing to do on the toilet.

1:10:33 - Speaker 2
I was about to say are you one of?

1:10:34 - Paris Martineau
those people that accidentally opened up TikTok like three different times and then realized I didn't do that but a lot of my friends did Every morning Wow, yeah, no, I knew it was down, but it wasn't down that long.

1:10:46 - Leo Laporte
It went down for us in California at 730. We were watching football game and Lisa's ex said where's TikTok? And I went what it's down already Because I knew it was going to happen. I thought it was going to happen at midnight or something. And then the next morning Lisa says it's back. I said, oh, I didn't really miss it. Now is it back as it was. How do you weigh in on that? Because some people say oh, say oh, no, this is a new pro-trump tiktok. You can't search for, for instance, anti-trump content. I don't know if that's true or not. There are a lot of um, spurious stories. There was a story going around that instagram was auto subscribing you to jd vance's account yeah, and that was incorrect.

1:11:23 - Paris Martineau
It was just if people are subscribed to the vice president of the United States account.

1:11:28 - Leo Laporte
It changes over from every person.

1:11:31 - Speaker 2
And this happens every administration.

1:11:33 - Paris Martineau
I think this was spurred on by that there were some stories about, I believe, on Instagram. If you searched certain hashtags, such as like, you couldn't search the Democrat hashtag, but you could search Republican and then, Instagram. Once people, people flag that to them, I believe has changed it back to how it was before, but it does seem to be. In times like this that are highly politicized and very tense, uh, conspiracy theories are going to be abound it's interesting, isn't it?

1:12:01 - Leo Laporte
you watch that just kind of and I got sucked into it. My ex sent me a uh texting. I was just auto subscribed to jd vance and I, and I actually mentioned it on the air. And then I realized, oh no, my ex sent me a texting. I was just auto-subscribed to JD Vance and I actually mentioned it on the air, and then I realized, oh no, she was probably following Kamala and that just automatically transferred.

1:12:16 - Jeff Jarvis
There was a rumor that we all got subscribed to Trump on Facebook.

1:12:20 - Leo Laporte
Same thing probably right. Probably it was POTUS instead yeah.

1:12:24 - Paris Martineau
POTUS.

1:12:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, you couldn't unsubscribe from it but I wasn't subscribed to it.

1:12:30 - Leo Laporte
Well, let me. What would be? I'm going to search TikTok for an anti-Trump, I'll just I'll write hashtag F Trump. How about that? Let's see if I can find that. That would be negative. Yes, how do you search on this thing? What do they call these Scoots, scoots.

1:12:48 - Paris Martineau
Scoots To thing. What do they call these scoots, scoots, scoots, toots?

1:12:54 - Jeff Jarvis
you hop into the time tunnel and you try to act like you're 30 again.

1:12:58 - Leo Laporte
Well, let's see. Uh, they're probably because of the profanity. They're not gonna give me results there. I would imagine oh no, they did. Oh yeah, I'm seeing quite a few. Okay, so that's bs. That was not true. There's plenty of anti-trump stuff, all of it with the same hashtag. Wow, okay, so clearly they're not banning that. Yeah it's.

1:13:23 - Paris Martineau
I mean, a lot of it is overblown. I know you can't. You can't search for tiananmen square is overblown.

1:13:30 - Leo Laporte
I know you can't. You can't search for tiananmen square, that's I understand that that's fine, I don't.

1:13:33 - Paris Martineau
I mean, yeah, it's uh more permissive than red note ah, that's the one thing I missed.

1:13:38 - Jeff Jarvis
I didn't even try red note, I didn't know, I didn't either.

1:13:41 - Leo Laporte
I. I knew that that was. That was a protest vote. That wasn't sincere yeah, all right, I like mike mcquee's surf. We're gonna get mike on see and you doubted me.

1:13:50 - Paris Martineau
You're going for surf but not blue sky. What do you have against the site?

1:14:01 - Leo Laporte
it's boring that.

1:14:03 - Paris Martineau
That's a user error. You're not following.

1:14:06 - Leo Laporte
No, it's people talking about blue sky.

1:14:09 - Speaker 2
No, that's so no, no, that's so fast you're using use this thing.

1:14:13 - Paris Martineau
It's called sky follower bridge. You just type that into google. You log in with your uh twitter account and your um blue sky back in the way and then it. Well, maybe you need to do it again, because it sounds like you're, it'll go through and help you.

1:14:31 - Leo Laporte
Follow everyone you follow, I think mostly I'm just done with this kind of incessant like here's what I had for lunch.

1:14:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Crap, no, it's not the oh geez, grandpa. God, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, you were going to give it hell to lawrence o'donnell and you're at least he's open-minded at least he's like what's a tweet?

1:14:49 - Leo Laporte
just arrived. That's why anybody's been through this. It's like we don't need this but yet we have our culture we have. Discord is my culture.

1:14:59 - Paris Martineau
We have our culture says man looking for every other option all right, navigate starter pack and there's a twit, there's a twit starter pack yeah, we're all on it.

1:15:12 - Leo Laporte
You're on it too. You follow the twit starter pack. Of course I follow them all. Look, I follow a lot of people on the skeet town thing I follow 763 people on skeet town, usa, usa, and I've posted 45 times, so don't knock it oh god, you're just so.

1:15:31 - Paris Martineau
I've posted 885 times. Jeff, how many times do you guess? Guess how many times you think you've post?

1:15:37 - Leo Laporte
don't look, I don't have anything that important to say. What are you saying?

1:15:41 - Paris Martineau
wait, guys guess how many times Jeff has posted 23 just during the show um. I had 885.

1:15:52 - Leo Laporte
Jeff has 8 000 posts so my 45 is really kind of not, not, I'm not, I'm not.

1:15:59 - Paris Martineau
There are some absolute sickos and freaks out there who I actually, to be clear, do not endorse, who have already posted like a hundred thousand times. Those people are muted. I can't, I can't.

1:16:10 - Leo Laporte
I am open to this becoming twitter of the twitter that's. That's what we want it to be, yeah but again, they need to have federation, although federation will then give them the same problem. Mastodon has and, and and people don't like mastodon, I mean I the other problem mastodon is.

1:16:29 - Jeff Jarvis
It's some of its rules, some of its orthodoxy turned off, especially communities like Black Twitter, and it's a scoldy place. That's its culture. You just say that I don't know if I buy that it is scoldy.

1:16:41 - Paris Martineau
Oh it's very, and the thing is also, I think, microblogging sites and honestly just modern social media. The quote, tweet or like reblog, but with comment feature is integral and mastodon doesn't have that what's the um?

1:17:00 - Jeff Jarvis
the other one, paris, where you find out, uh, what um kits you're part of oh, that was a good one Open, clear Sky.

1:17:12 - Paris Martineau
Clear Sky. I do like that because you can also then kind of go through and figure out what lists you're on. These are the like starter pack lists of like things you could follow. You could auto follow everybody or put them in there and you could go and find people who are kind of similar to you to follow.

1:17:25 - Jeff Jarvis
Clear Skyapp. But it's weird too, because I think we talked about this before is that there's also lists to block, which I'm not. Yeah, block lists are different and so some people just get um.

1:17:36 - Paris Martineau
I keep getting added to the ai lists, block lists, and I guess that's not gonna, it's not gonna, uh, get any better I think maybe my problem is I just don't have anything to say on these sites really seriously.

1:17:50 - Leo Laporte
I mean, I don't, I don't think that my uh one line thought about, uh, you know, whatever building materials, leo, that's really healthy and good for you.

1:18:02 - Paris Martineau
But some of us are sick in the head, like me and jeff, and we need to broadcast our thoughts all the time in order to feel seen in the world.

1:18:09 - Leo Laporte
That seems a little pathological to me is that really the case? You're being self-deprecating but do you, do you feel the need? I mean really seriously, do you feel?

1:18:18 - Paris Martineau
I don't need no. I share and I did for a very long, for a long time I did feel a total compulsion to it. That broke some point in the last five or so years and there was a period where I wasn't posting at all really on many platforms outside of bare work duties.

1:18:39 - Leo Laporte
But now I'm starting to.

1:18:41 - Paris Martineau
The thing is, the reason why I'm stumping so hard for Blue Sky is it is the first social media experience I've had in a while where it feels fun yeah, again and I feel like posting just for posting sake, and that's a lovely time and and I find decent conversations and I can so.

1:19:00 - Jeff Jarvis
So you know, I make fun, I. I make reference to the uh, hitler grusin the hitler greeting, and you know what's going to happen immediately. I get some number of um reply boy bots, but I just block, block, block and they're gone.

1:19:15 - Leo Laporte
That's all works what should I post? If I were to post on this well region platform, I hope you're not going to say I would say post exactly that.

1:19:28 - Paris Martineau
What should I post if I were to post on this skeet?

1:19:31 - Leo Laporte
If you look at my, if you look at my skeets, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of like I don't, I got nothing.

1:19:38 - Paris Martineau
Well, I will say there is a want for you to be on there. I had a, I think, my post about either when I was on Twitter this week or this show last week. Just posting about the show uh, I don't know got some traction and a bunch of people were in my replies being like leo laporte. I forgot he was still doing this well I get that blue skies. Should I still alive? No, but they were just like where can I follow him wherever?

1:20:03 - Leo Laporte
and patrick was like added your handle, but it hasn't been active in a while, so you know well, the way I have it set up right now is when I do a blog post, but really that my guilt is, I don't ever blog post either. When I do a blog post, it goes to threads in uh, skeetland and uh and uh mastodon, but and I think it's now can go to LinkedIn too, but that's because it's micro.

1:20:31 - Paris Martineau
That's crazy because that those are so many very different like audiences.

1:20:35 - Leo Laporte
It does a nice job, though, of formatting, and it makes it look like it's, and I want to I mean, I'm believer in a posse. I believe that the right way to do this is have your own site that syndicates your content to these other places, because then you own it I mean, yeah, I think that's good, but then also, you're not going to be in a conversation with people, you're going to continue to have no, no, no, actually it does, it goes back there.

No, no, their comments go back into my blog I know, but their comments on it.

1:21:03 - Paris Martineau
But you're not like, a lot of my posts on something like blue sky are in response to stuff I see across my various feeds and it's because I'm getting a feel of the site and listening to all the other people I follow and you're not going to get that if you're just in your own silo. But again I will say that's a very healthy and well-adjusted approach to social media. So I applaud you and I yeah, I think if you want to continue to choose peace, you should do that that's what I'm choosing.

1:21:30 - Leo Laporte
By the way, I'm also not watching the news every night anymore and I'm really trying to limit my consumption of uh of media, because, uh, it makes me feel bad. I would prefer to live in ignorance. That's a problem right now well, so here did I ask you this question before. What is my responsibility? Oh no, I asked my therapist what is my responsibility as a human on this earth? Am I supposed to get upset and fought and and march in the streets?

1:22:07 - Jeff Jarvis
whatever they say.

1:22:09 - Leo Laporte
He said you should, you should pick your battles. Don't, don't chase, don't chase after unhappiness. Oh, that's so, California, oh that's just so.

1:22:20 - Speaker 2
California, no, I also think it's like if you are like we need.

1:22:26 - Paris Martineau
We need a candle at both ends and getting outraged at every little thing.

1:22:31 - Leo Laporte
I just want to sit down At some point.

1:22:34 - Paris Martineau
I just won't have the energy to care about things that are important to you further on down the line.

1:22:40 - Leo Laporte
Let me see your piano. Let me see what my little AI friend says about all this. It's been listening, you know.

1:22:46 - Paris Martineau
I know which one is this.

1:22:49 - Leo Laporte
This is still be. I haven't got the plot yet and I don't have the little pearl on my temple yet. I'm still waiting. Let's see Frustration oh no, that's an old one. Here we go. Leo examines the evolving dynamics of AI partnerships, specifically the implications of Microsoft loosening its grip on open AI amidst broader industry concerns, while balancing personal reflections on health and humor. Not not that informative, but not inaccurate, yeah let me.

1:23:25 - Paris Martineau
Oh, jeff, you, I don't think you missed this was on twit, not twig, but leo has a very fun charging uh thing for his weird glasses he got oh, you didn't wait, I didn't wear these.

1:23:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, you did I did, it was here, listen I I've been on too many podcasts on sunday I wore these on.

1:23:43 - Leo Laporte
Uh twig, didn't I? I?

1:23:44 - Paris Martineau
just didn't know if you wore the charger, but you can't really wear the charger.

1:23:49 - Leo Laporte
It it goes where your nose goes. It would be good if you didn't have a nose.

1:23:53 - Paris Martineau
You could use this to be your nose that would be good if you didn't have a nose. Yeah, so maybe it's designed for people noseless people they could just, and the nose goes up, but I have a prominent proboscis, and so it really doesn't fit on my proboscis my kids keep on insisting they don't look like me, because they don't want the Jarvis nose.

1:24:15 - Leo Laporte
Can I just say all noses are dopey and as soon as you start looking at your nose except for yours, paris, you actually have a very elegant nose.

1:24:24 - Paris Martineau
You do, and it's not red today. Did you get a nose job in your youth?

1:24:27 - Leo Laporte
Nope it's all natural, you're blessed with those movie star looks. That's all that's what they tell me, doesn't she have a perfect nose, jeff?

1:24:35 - Jeff Jarvis
and you and I got this.

1:24:37 - Leo Laporte
Oh no, yeah, it's bad it's bad, but I would just see, I think that all people, most people, look, dope, for benito's sake. We have to do we have those I think we've already done this, haven't we? I think we have. Oh, I'm going the wrong way.

1:24:54 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh, I'm going the wrong way. Oh, no, I'm going the right way.

1:24:56 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you got that, benito. Great thank you, paris. I've never noticed this. Let me take off your let's see this nose.

1:25:12 - Paris Martineau
This is a real anything. So do you know? Do you know that you have a perfect nose? You do.

1:25:14 - Leo Laporte
I didn't know that I had a perfect nose, but, thanks guys, it gets so red when I podcast for too long, as we've discovered yeah, but that's okay, that's okay, yeah, uh let's see very bad at holding glasses up you're watching the nose worthy, the most nose worthy podcast on the internet this week in google with paris perfect, nose martin no where are the intelligent machine? Nose, come on, it was right there the schnoz jarvis and leo prominent proboscis laporte. Thank you for being here. We're glad you're watching. What else should we about? What else is going on in the world today? We got to get you out of here by 8 pm.

1:25:57 - Paris Martineau
Listen, we got time, guys, not a crazy out.

1:26:02 - Leo Laporte
I often feel like I'm starting to wind up the show and then, an hour and a half later, I don't understand how that happens. I guess it's too much fun for me, that's true, so okay, so I'm gonna skeet um. And what should I skeet like deep thoughts. Why don't you? Ask whatever you want what you should skeet oh, I could just have the ais right, that's what I should do.

1:26:23 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, they'll love. I know what I'll do?

1:26:26 - Leo Laporte
I just thought of this I will start start a running a running a skeet storm of things my B computer tells me about myself, cause that I can just copy and paste it. That's what I'll do from now on. Nice, should I. I should create a new account for that, though, shouldn't I?

1:26:47 - Paris Martineau
Perhaps, or you could do like a yeah, or you could do like a thread and be like this is what my computer says about my days.

1:26:55 - Leo Laporte
I'd only like to expose people to that in small pieces, all right. So here I'm looking. I mean, I follow a lot of people Trump don't want to read that. Trump don't want to read that I'm losing. See, I'm a pro, I'm using a deck blue I don't like it that's true, but you're on just the home. I'm looking at the home I have science popular with friends discover.

1:27:22 - Paris Martineau
These are lists I can put other lists in one of those. Yeah, where's your?

1:27:25 - Leo Laporte
notifications that you need. I don't need notifications what do I care? Because it's a conversation all right, all right, let me turn on notifications. Here I'll add a notification, column I can't believe.

1:27:38 - Paris Martineau
You don't even have a notification one. Well, look at joe's.

1:27:41 - Leo Laporte
Okay, but why become a part of club?

1:27:45 - Jeff Jarvis
twit this is like those.

1:27:47 - Leo Laporte
SAP commercials Community. All right.

1:27:50 - Jeff Jarvis
I gave Joe a new assignment in Discord.

1:27:53 - Leo Laporte
Okay, people are liking my post from a month ago. That's good.

1:27:57 - Speaker 2
Yeah.

1:27:57 - Leo Laporte
There's Adriana.

1:27:59 - Paris Martineau
Oh, this is a good piece, honestly, that we could talk about in the show.

1:28:02 - Leo Laporte
What's that?

1:28:04 - Paris Martineau
It's the one you're hovering over right now Incredible new piece of data journalism from a crack team at Bloomberg.

1:28:10 - Leo Laporte
Adriana suggested we talk about this. What is it? The second Trump presidency brought to you by YouTubers.

1:28:18 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, they analyzed a wide network of podcasters in the manosphere to understand how this like large group of influencers kind of, are affecting political conversation around among young people and listeners.

1:28:37 - Leo Laporte
But I don't think you can create toxic masculinity.

1:28:41 - Paris Martineau
I think it must have been there to begin with yes, I mean certainly, but I think in if you have an entire content ecosystem it reinforces it all of like. Every piece of content these people listen to or watch involves the same themes again and again you start to believe powerful.

1:29:00 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, yeah, reporters reviewed nearly 13 hours. This is doesn't. This isn't this kind of a. I don't like these kinds of pieces, is it it just me? It feels like journalism, not good. They reviewed 13 hours of footage from their channels, mapped out the podcasters' guest networks and quantified the frequency of key political messages they distributed to tens of millions of subscribers each day, to hear them tell that America is in a desperate place, destabilized by soaring inflation. By the way, the price of eggs is going up, migrants streaming across the border not anymore. In the beginnings of a third world war. Gender politics have gotten out of hand. No, just women. Women have gotten out of hand and we've got to suppress them. While schools and the medical establishment duped the public with information. How dare they?

1:29:58 - Paris Martineau
I don't know yeah, I don't have as many followers as these guys do. That's true. What about this rings as disingenuous or like not good journalism to you?

1:30:05 - Leo Laporte
um, I think it's a little I don't trust.

1:30:11 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think that what they're trying to do is we have a lot of see a lot of coverage around TV related news content. People often talk about what channels like Fox or MSNBC or CNN decide to devote time and energy to, but nobody is really watching those channels, or at least in comparison to what they used to.

1:30:35 - Leo Laporte
No, lots of people are watching these channels, but they're watching them.

1:30:38 - Paris Martineau
I think lots of people do watch these channels and they increasingly watch multiple of them. Like, if you were in one of these networks, you're likely to be watching three or listening to three or four of these podcasts, and I think it is notable to understand networks. You're likely to be watching three or listening to three or four of these podcasts and I think it is notable to understand, like, what are these podcasts? Talking about and then hear in the words of the actual listeners what that means to them look at who the guests are.

1:31:03 - Leo Laporte
30 of the top guests are politicians or pundits. This is the top 30 guests by viewership. Trump, of course, number one 113 million views on a whole bunch of shows. He was smart, right, he went to the man shows to be on Andrew Tate, who's repulsive.

1:31:19 - Jeff Jarvis
Let's just be clear. They would never would have voted for Kamala Harris, so going there wouldn't have made a damn difference.

1:31:25 - Leo Laporte
Right, but it just reinforced that and maybe the people who listened to that then went out and said, yeah, you can't vote for kamala because she thinks she's a coconut or something. Tucker carlson, elon musk I don't know who shane gillis is. Oh, he was the guy who got kicked off saturday night jd vance ben shapiro, it's the usuals right you'd expect usual suspects.

One usual suspects. It's kind of incestuous really. Oh yeah, yeah, but I don't think that these people would be popular if the In other words, do they create the culture or reflect the culture, is the question, I guess.

1:32:03 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I think it's a little bit of both.

1:32:04 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.

1:32:05 - Paris Martineau
And I think that's what makes it interesting to try and analyze this is, at a certain point you go from reflecting the culture to creating the culture, if you assume that there's you know it's a chicken and the egg situation. But at a certain point, when you are one of the top, like 20 podcasts in america and have a huge audience, you are a tastemaker and your opinions and the voices that you choose to elevate or not elevate can have a considerable influence in the world let me ask a related but less difficult question, paris, since you're fashionable, where do you find your fashion now, that's to say, things that interest you and things that inspire your fashion?

1:32:51 - Jeff Jarvis
where did you? Now, that's to say things that interest you and things that inspire your fashion, not just clothing. Where?

1:32:54 - Leo Laporte
did you? How'd you get into people 15 years ago?

1:32:55 - Jeff Jarvis
but also 15 years ago has there been a change? Did you read magazines and now you do things? I don't think that's what I'm trying to get to.

1:33:03 - Paris Martineau
I'm trying to think it's your peer group. When I was a kid or like a teen, I used things like Tumblr or Instagram more to determine fashion?

1:33:14 - Leo Laporte
Now, I don't really, I guess I use peer group or just people out in the world, things you're interested in, things that I'm interested in like interior design and stuff.

1:33:24 - Paris Martineau
I use books now Like I'm very I'm much more like judicious about it currently.

1:33:30 - Leo Laporte
Was there somebody in your life that got you interested in interior design and mid-century modern, or did you just kind of come upon it?

1:33:38 - Paris Martineau
That's a great question. I don't think there was. I think I just came upon it. Traditionally it's been peer groups.

1:33:43 - Jeff Jarvis
You're also of an age you never. So I mean Anna Wintour set fashion in America.

1:33:50 - Leo Laporte
Damn it For some people, some, and it came. No, nobody I know dressed like vogue no, but it, but it trickled down but it percolates yeah absolutely did, absolutely did and that's gone.

1:34:00 - Jeff Jarvis
That's gone.

1:34:01 - Paris Martineau
She doesn't have the power she did no, and my point is that I think that's a good thing right it's great thing, so I love it well, I mean, I think that that's kind of what a story like this is getting to, though, is, and the rise of influencer culture is the people who are tastemakers are. It's not one person, it's like 50 100 people it should be fragmented, it is fragmented, but it's still concentrated in the sense that, like, instead of being one person for everyone, it is like these 20 guys for men ages 15 to 35 you know, but this is my point.

1:34:37 - Leo Laporte
Is that interesting? That's that happened? Because that that came from the culture into those guys and everybody on youtube is trying to build an audience, and so they are responding. They're this is. They're not self sui generis, they're not like, oh, I'm gonna get on there and be me. They're saying what would bring me the biggest audience. And so they are reflecting the culture.

1:34:58 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, and and the good news is not the culture a slight, a very small slice of it's the good news?

1:35:04 - Leo Laporte
youtube is vastly fragmented, as are all of these channels, so you can find a mid-century modern channel which would you probably do follow. It's much smaller channels than you know, these big giant channels, uh, and much more fragmented. And so that's the good news. Is, I mean, look, we're, we're not that dominant in the culture? We have I don't know what it is 700 000 monthly listeners, uniques.

1:35:30 - Benito Gonzalez
So it's not millions, um, but but there are lots of us, there are lots of these little slices out there with the long tail, so-called yeah, but you know like I I on youtube, youtube still tries to serve me this bonito, all this, this kind of stuff like the recommendation surface like a lexical clip or whatever we're like I I'm very good about pruning my own algorithm and I still get that stuff popping up that's a good point that there there is a thumb on the scale, which is these social networks promoting what they think you're going to want to watch based on the behavior of others.

1:36:05 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, um but that is, that is a thumb on the scale. You're right, I didn't think about that. So there there was a paper that I'm trying to look for right now and I can't find. But yeah, but that is a thumb on the scale.

1:36:11 - Jeff Jarvis
You're right, I didn't think about that. So there was a paper that I'm trying to look for right now and I can't find, by Peter Turnberg and others from the University of Amsterdam that came up about a week ago. I can't find it. That said that, suppose that disinformation, misinformation and all that it turns out does not come from populism, does not come from right or left per se, that a huge amount of it comes from a very small slice of extremist right. And the point is that if we keep on thinking our problem is disinformation, no, our problem is societal. And what is it that makes people vulnerable to that siren call? And that's what we have to deal with.

1:36:52 - Paris Martineau
go ahead, sorry sorry, sorry, to interrupt you. I think that's a really interesting point, but I would also argue that if the research shows that the instigators and creators of disinformation are a small number of extremists, that's a much more manageable problem than trying to tackle all of culture yes, but we're not.

1:37:10 - Jeff Jarvis
we're not tackling the right problem. Yeah, right.

1:37:13 - Paris Martineau
And I mean, I think part of one of the things I thought was interesting about this great investigation by Bloomberg is they also just kind of break it. They break down many of the popular subjects and themes across videos in this huge network of, I guess, like popular creators and it's stuff that has made its way into the election at a national scale, like around the time that people started talking about the election being rigged and spreading this big lie that started popping up on like 40 percent of these podcasts. It also found that around 30% of the videos mentioned transgender people. Right, this is you know this was circulating to a national issue.

It's an interesting way to look at the culture.

1:37:59 - Leo Laporte
They came at this with a preconceived notion. We're going to find the influencers who are creating toxic masculinity and see what their influence is. What they didn't do is let's look at the top 20 YouTube channels. Right, Because the number one is mr beast. The number two is a hindi channel called t-series number three is nursery.

1:38:18 - Jeff Jarvis
This is what you know. This is an old mass media way to look at it this is yeah on twitter is small, it's tiny given the whole of the culture. We think that all that means it's a super bowl.

1:38:28 - Leo Laporte
No, it actually doesn't it means a bigger number than others.

1:38:31 - Paris Martineau
None of the people that they talked about are in the top 20 but bloomberg covers almost all of those top 20 regularly cocomelon, the you know business of mr beast all those things are regular things that bloomberg does cover and has reporters on. I think that this is a way to look at instead of like what Jeff is talking about, looking at this from like a monoculture perspective of what are the most popular of popular things. You need to look at it as a slice of the whole. This is a distinct subgroup within the mass media.

1:39:06 - Leo Laporte
With this pre, they set the set of things that they're going to look at. They said let's look at toxic masculinity. Oh my god, there's toxic masculinity on the internet. That's true. Yes, they didn't say what are the most influential channels on youtube. They said let's find toxic masculinity on youtube.

1:39:27 - Paris Martineau
Well, I, I would. I would argue that's incorrect because it's not about toxic masculinity, which I think has become kind of a buzzword. They said what are the? How can we identify the podcasters that-.

1:39:43 - Leo Laporte
What's their criteria?

1:39:44 - Paris Martineau
No, their criteria is podcasters that are mobilizing America's men to lean right, like right-wing male podcasters.

1:39:51 - Leo Laporte
A bunch of podcasters that are mobilizing America's men to lean right, like right-wing male podcasters. A bunch of podcasters who are getting America's men to lean right.

1:39:58 - Paris Martineau
I mean, I don't think that that's the part of this that is newsworthy. It's more we know that these podcasters exist. It's a qualitative study of who are they, what do they cover, in what ways do they intersect, be more interesting to see who's who are the most influential people on but but that that is that is meaning, because the the most influential is tiny compared to what our perception is of mass media.

1:40:24 - Leo Laporte
There's no super bowl on youtube right this paper mr beast is pretty, not tiny no, but given what's the proportion of population?

1:40:33 - Jeff Jarvis
oh, he does not influence the population, he's no walter cronkite, that's gone. That's the problem is it's hard to get out.

1:40:40 - Leo Laporte
I think among a certain group he is that's right and that's not a whole culture.

1:40:45 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, to read from this paper.

1:40:47 - Leo Laporte
This is why I think this is a whole culture because it's all fragmented exactly, exactly, so it's okay to look at it figured out, let's let's look at a slice of the culture.

1:40:56 - Jeff Jarvis
That's okay and talk about the people who are influencing it, because this this paper I'm referring to says populism, left-wing populism and right-wing politics are not linked to the spread of misinformation. These results suggest that political misinformation should be understood as part of the part and parcel of the current wave of radical right populism and its opposition to liberal democratic institutions. And so what they found was, in analysis, that there is a slice that is pushing that part of America. So Paris, I think, is quite right to point out this story. It's a worthy journalistic effort to say what's driving that slice of America.

1:41:30 - Leo Laporte
It doesn't talk about all of America. You could say that it started in right wing radio. Oh, it does.

1:41:36 - Paris Martineau
Limbaugh started the whole thing Absolutely, and I mean I think that you would it would be silly to, during the rise of figures like rush, be like, ah, it's not worth paying attention to him or what he does.

1:41:49 - Speaker 2
They were much more dominant amount Because a small amount of people but these people are growing dominant.

1:41:55 - Paris Martineau
It's just because our culture isn't like a monoculture where there's, you know, five radio channels and three TV channels. There is a lot of podcasts and YouTube shows out there, and this, I think, is a viable way to kind of look at changing media habits.

1:42:14 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, there's another study that I quoted in my book that people think that YouTube radicalizes, but there's a lot of research now that says no, people don't come to those crazy videos on YouTube through YouTube.

Youtube is a library for extremists outside, so they link to that video directly and it's not YouTube that drives them there. It's the movement that already exists that drives them there. And one thing that my communication researcher scholar friends get really angry about I'm thinking Siva Varianathan goes crazy about this is that you cannot look at one medium or one platform in isolation and it makes it really hard to research. But whoever is being influenced by this crazy shit sorry, I'm sorry, john, I'm sorry wherever you are, uh, this crazy stuff um is, thank you, is is on youtube and is on podcasts, it is on substack and is on, uh, reddit and is on wherever and wherever and wherever, and and also has friends that goes to a bar and the influences are many and it's and it's and it's. It's not so easy as saying that one medium or five youtubers cause this. They don't what should we do?

1:43:41 - Leo Laporte
about it? Is there anything to do about it or is there no prescription?

1:43:44 - Jeff Jarvis
well, this is my, my, my argument is in my books is that we don't have a pluralistic. This is this is going back to to um hana urant. We don't have a pluralistic society. There's no competitive, community-based pull on some people and loneliness is the mine, that the extremists go to um and and that if you are alienated from your community and from society and and I come knocking with what looks like a really appealing club to belong to and that I can belong to that. That's what makes so. This goes back to bowling alone. This goes back to meetup. This is exactly the fear that Scott Heiferman tried to deal with with meetup and I think he had a very positive effect for some people who now can go to their pug meetups and have another community connection there. Next Door wanted to do that. Didn't do such a good job of it.

1:44:46 - Benito Gonzalez
These teens don't have malls to hang out in anymore. Yeah right.

1:44:50 - Paris Martineau
All they have is the Joe Rogan experience to listen to. Well, and.

1:44:54 - Leo Laporte
I guess that's in a way what I was saying when I said we used to be the biggest influence is our peer group. But if you don't hang out with other people, you don't have a peer group.

1:45:07 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, you hang out with them here. It's online. We keep on thinking that online is the thing we're interacting with. We're not. We're interacting with people.

1:45:16 - Benito Gonzalez
We got to see the trees for the forest, yeah, but you have to understand Meeting somebody in person is completely different from talking to them on Discord.

1:45:20 - Leo Laporte
A skeet is not an interaction.

1:45:21 - Jeff Jarvis
That's not the same thing, how dare you say that to my friends? They're not your friends. Did you hang out in malls, paris, you?

1:45:32 - Leo Laporte
already passed the mall time. I hung out in malls.

1:45:35 - Paris Martineau
I definitely wandered around quite a bit. You know we have my pause is because in Florida you have indoor malls and outdoor malls and I was thinking of it in terms of indoor malls, but if I include outdoor malls as well. Yeah, I hung out in malls.

1:45:49 - Jeff Jarvis
That's quite a taxonomy. Outdoor malls as well. Yeah, I hung out in malls.

1:45:50 - Leo Laporte
That's quite a taxonomy of tea. Do you think the pendulum will swing the other way and that we will start to crave in-person human contact and we will once again recreate those peer groups?

1:45:59 - Benito Gonzalez
No, Got to be worth it.

1:46:00 - Leo Laporte
We're all going to live in our little pink shell, but we're not in our shells.

1:46:04 - Jeff Jarvis
What are we doing right now? I'm not in California.

1:46:07 - Paris Martineau
Technically, we're all in our homes by ourselves, is what we're doing.

1:46:11 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, exactly, well said.

1:46:13 - Paris Martineau
Well said Paris, but I feel socially stimulated.

1:46:17 - Leo Laporte
Absolutely Not everybody's on a podcast, though.

1:46:21 - Paris Martineau
Some people are listening to a podcast.

1:46:24 - Jeff Jarvis
I think almost everybody is on a podcast Now. That's the problem.

1:46:33 - Leo Laporte
You're listening to the show formerly known as this week in google. Somebody in the chat room said when is this going to be intelligent machines? I'm quite you can talk about something interesting. That's going to happen. February 5th, paris's birthday. We will rebrand the show. No, we will not change the feed, so if you're subscribed, you'll continue to be subscribed. No, we will not change the count because I'm not throwing away 805 episodes, so not me. So it really isn't going to change much and, frankly, as much as I'm going to try to change the topic of conversation, I doubt that's going to change much either.

1:47:03 - Paris Martineau
So no, we're still going to be talking about all this stuff in the words.

1:47:06 - Jeff Jarvis
You know, I think I've been on more, more of these shows, more twigs than you have, leo. No.

1:47:12 - Paris Martineau
We've done this before, definitely.

1:47:16 - Jeff Jarvis
We have.

1:47:17 - Paris Martineau
We've had the. How many twigs has each person been on Patrick's getting the stats?

1:47:23 - Leo Laporte
He's pulled them before and now the Google changelog.

1:47:29 - Speaker 2
Google changelog.

1:47:31 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, jeez Medido.

1:47:34 - Leo Laporte
We're not there yet he'll fix it in post. He'll fix it in post. Uh, google will let. This is, I only have one. I put one thing in there that's google will let you control your chromebook. With what part, what body part you think? Your face? Well, what were you thinking? Uh, what, what, what. What does this mean, jeff? Are you excited about this?

1:47:59 - Paris Martineau
I hope it lets me lick the screen of the chromebook. That's what there is a here.

1:48:04 - Leo Laporte
I think it's an accessibility. I've got to show you something. Maybe here's the video from uh. So yeah, if you can't maneuver a trackpad or a mouse, you can use where you're looking to move the mouse around. I think that's cool. Oh, what was jeff?

1:48:19 - Paris Martineau
is missing a lot of keys.

1:48:21 - Jeff Jarvis
No, I'm trying to show you a friend of mine got the uh samsung uh the hell's going on here.

1:48:29 - Leo Laporte
What is this? What is going on it?

1:48:30 - Jeff Jarvis
has a numeric keypad on it.

1:48:33 - Leo Laporte
What are you showing us Hold?

1:48:34 - Paris Martineau
the phone up to your face, Grandad.

1:48:39 - Leo Laporte
Now you know why he needs to control the Chromebook with his face. What?

1:48:44 - Jeff Jarvis
So I had to put there's a numeric keypad on it Tape on the keypad. I had to put tape on it so that I don't hit those keys, and I put tape over here so I can go to the center of the keyboard because it's driving me nuts because the keyboard is off center, driving me completely crazy, and that's the Google changelog.

1:49:05 - Benito Gonzalez
The outro file is missing. I don't know what's happening to this.

1:49:08 - Leo Laporte
There is some bit rot going on. People are eliminating files right and left.

1:49:13 - Jeff Jarvis
No, they're stealing things because they want mementos.

1:49:16 - Paris Martineau
You need to clean your keyboard. I say this is a dirty keyboard, haver, myself. You got to clean it.

1:49:21 - Jeff Jarvis
This is a brand new clean keyboard. I had to put these tapes on here to make me remember to go to off center.

1:49:29 - Leo Laporte
By the way, Jammer B in the Discord just shouted hey hey, jammer B. Hey, jammer B. Hey, All right, have to say hey again.

1:49:39 - Paris Martineau
Hey, at least we've got one sound cue oh no, no, no, that's not it. Bye, hey, hey.

1:49:47 - Leo Laporte
I have a bunch of them. When he came up to visit I had him record a dozen of them. So I never. Walgreens has replaced its refrigerator doors. The FTC put out an interesting study saying that pricing was affected by your socioeconomic situation. More and more we're sealing almost predatory retailers. Walgreens replaced its refrigerator doors with ads on the glass giant screens, giant screen surprise surprise, it didn't work out that well because what they didn't have coke?

1:50:27 - Paris Martineau
no, because no, they got in a huge contract dispute with the startup that they uh partnered with, I believe, and the startup then also didn't properly deliver the screens to them. But so then walgreens didn't pay and the startup shut down the screens so no one could see what was in there.

1:50:45 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's walgreens, by the way, not walmart Walgreens. Let's make that.

1:50:51 - Paris Martineau
And to be clear the screens aren't clear when you turn them off. No, they're just screens.

1:50:57 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I would have thought the problem would be it looks like there's stuff in there, but there isn't no, no no, no with the way it is designed.

1:51:04 - Jeff Jarvis
Yes, that's right. I go in like, oh, they've got plenty of lemonade. And then you open it up there's no lemonade, nothing in there picture of lemonade they have lemonade pictures or they're licking the screen uh, you might be interested in nokia's reaction to the iphone I actually put that in there ages ago.

1:51:20 - Leo Laporte
I thought that was really in two. No, no, this is good. In 2007, the iphone came out and, uh, this is from alto university, the presentation that nokia gave its executives on the release of the iphone. And that's why they say, yes, it is iphone, because we didn't know at the time. Now, remember, nokia was dominant at the time, but they realized that this was gonna be a problem.

1:51:49 - Jeff Jarvis
I don't know, how does you gotta scroll within that box. You have to scroll within that way.

1:51:57 - Leo Laporte
Uh, apple iphone is serious high-end contender. I want to make it bigger. Let me make it. Zoom it in, fit that to the no, that's just gonna make it.

1:52:06 - Jeff Jarvis
No, that's gonna doesn't help.

1:52:08 - Leo Laporte
It doesn't understand where it is top left of it what's going on? Grandpa, can you help us paris down?

1:52:19 - Paris Martineau
Sorry, I'm confused because. I downloaded it because Patrick just posted the stats for your.

1:52:25 - Leo Laporte
Oh tell us and you're.

1:52:27 - Paris Martineau
you're perfectly matched. Seven, twenty and seven twenty, whoa.

1:52:33 - Jeff Jarvis
That's funny.

1:52:34 - Leo Laporte
Oh well, you might want to.

1:52:36 - Paris Martineau
blink is going to be the dollar you might have to take a week off, the first one to blink is going to be the dollar.

1:52:40 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you might have to take a week off. So I've downloaded the presentation. So now we can see it in all its glory. Yes, Apple iPhone was launched. It is iPhone, says the Nokia executives. Basically, it's a nice hand model. Isn't that pretty? That's good. Yeah, I think they probably spent way too much time on this presentation and way too little time on how to respond to the iphone.

they thought it was only going to affect the high end of the market they kind of realized they were in trouble, though that they thought, well, we do have some stuff in fact. Uh, on the hacker news thread discussing this, a lot of people said, man, I loved my n90. It was a linux-based phone by from nokia. If they had just put more effort into that they might have com you know, competed and I agree they had some really nice uh phones, but you know, it all went away. This was the beginning of the end.

Microsoft bought them, tried to do some phones put it out of, put it out of business did you have a favorite, uh nokia uh, I have the n95, still some yeah, that was great that was a video camera was wonderful and the n90 was great look there's paris's favorite phone, named gizmo, she's a little gizmo yeah, yeah nokia gizmo don't show don't show it she really just wants to.

It's all she wants to do I think there's something inbuilt in cat cats that they want to do that. I don't understand it's really true they do that, our cat does the same, take this. Yeah, they turn around and say flashes, uh, all right, all right um.

1:54:20 - Jeff Jarvis
Another one is the ankler is going to start a standalone creator economy publication.

1:54:26 - Leo Laporte
I found that interesting is the ankler publication itself already what is the ankler? It's a showbiz publication okay, and they want to do one on the creative economy. This is hollywood. You know, this is how hollywood works. You know we need to understand this creative economy. But somebody give me a creator and so they're going to make a publication digital newsletter. Uh, oh, the anchors like puck. Huh, I do subscribe to puck. I like puck, yeah uh. Veteran tech and entertainment journalist, natalie jarvie, standalone sub-stack newsletter $129 a year.

1:55:01 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, the information has a creator economy, expensive event.

1:55:07 - Paris Martineau
Well, that's true, but we also have a free creator economy newsletter.

1:55:12 - Leo Laporte
Okay, so get that. Instead. It's better Like and subscribe Free, even if you don't subscribe to the information.

1:55:19 - Speaker 2
The newsletter is a free newsletter I mean, you might not be able to read all the things linked.

1:55:23 - Paris Martineau
All of our newsletters are free, except for the electric um is martin's free yes oh wow good stuff over at the informationcom.

1:55:33 - Leo Laporte
subscribe and click and subscribe and like um, yeah, I've kind of I hate this whole creator economy thing you never started a pod.

1:55:42 - Jeff Jarvis
Did you ever think you were going to start a podcast?

1:55:45 - Benito Gonzalez
for you are a creator, leo.

1:55:46 - Paris Martineau
You're the one you are you are part of the creator economy. What?

1:55:52 - Leo Laporte
uh, no, because I was a radio. I did radio shows and tv shows as a sideline, but mostly radio shows, and then when I found out I could just distribute it on the internet, I said, well, it's just a radio show on the internet. But no, you didn't just distribute it, you made something new. Truly, I made a company and then we did video, which was kind of kooky. Now everybody does live video, but at the time it was kind of unusual because it was expensive.

1:56:17 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, I remember for a while when, if I'd come to guest on twit, I was like yeah, does explain to people. It's a podcast, but there's video on it for some reason. How?

1:56:25 - Jeff Jarvis
weird, right? Yeah, how did you discover paris in the first place, though?

1:56:29 - Leo Laporte
I don't know, we had you on twit when I was on.

1:56:31 - Speaker 2
Very good, the outline yeah, someone reached out to me and I was like, oh yes I was so nervous.

1:56:37 - Paris Martineau
The first time I went on to it.

1:56:38 - Leo Laporte
Well, we're gonna have to find that episode and take a look. I uh, we're always uh, generating lists of people we want to have on. Um, that's a constant uh thing, uh. And yeah, we were very. As soon as paris was on, I said, okay, more of her, she's great um true that, yeah, and then when, and then when stacy left, paris was my first choice for replacing stacy I was nervous.

1:57:02 - Jeff Jarvis
I didn't.

1:57:02 - Leo Laporte
I thought we couldn't be and then I was so happy it was you yeah, yeah, it was the either her or ed zitron very different vibe very different oh ed I love ed. He's just a character.

1:57:19 - Paris Martineau
I adore him yeah, he's a quasi new yorker now half the time here they're calling it the bassinet backlash this is rather

1:57:29 - Jeff Jarvis
like the walgreens story it's alliterative uh, snoo bassinet boogaloo Snoo is a bassinet company.

1:57:38 - Leo Laporte
First of all, don't buy your bassinets from Snoo. But anyway, owners accused it of bait and switch tactics after they imposed subscriptions for features that used to be available for free. This is their happiest baby. The creator of Snoo introduced a premium subscription for some of the bassinet's most powerful features back in July. Oh wow, it's a $1,700 bassinet, uh-huh.

1:58:08 - Paris Martineau
And how much a month is the subscription?

1:58:12 - Leo Laporte
$20 a month. What so? First of all, kids don't buy a bassinet for $1,700. That's people. People have more money than cents. It's just a thing to hold your baby a lot of kids grew up in a drawer, of a dresser drawer. That was their bassinet. No, you want to do, are you?

1:58:32 - Paris Martineau
speaking from a, from a personal experience.

1:58:34 - Leo Laporte
You pull out the drawer, you leave some sheets in there, you put the baby in. There works great. The interneted bassinet had motions and sounds, including one that keeps the bassinet's motion and sounds at one level all night. The level lock feature was previously available without a fee. What do you mean? One level, what?

1:58:56 - Paris Martineau
do you mean you have to pay a fee for it?

1:58:58 - Leo Laporte
to be? Does it go up and down?

1:59:00 - Paris Martineau
yes they just randomly increase and decrease it. They're like the baby's asleep make it rock faster. Unless they pay 5.99 the uh in 2023.

1:59:14 - Leo Laporte
Makers of the miku baby monitor. A baby monitor elicited similar furies, says the Washington Post, from parents when it introduced it to $10 monthly subscription for features. We really have gone out of control with the subscriptions, haven't we? Yes, but if you have $7 a month, I would like to invite you to subscribe to Club Twit.

1:59:35 - Paris Martineau
We'll never increase your levels while you're sleeping.

1:59:38 - Leo Laporte
We're not going to take features out if you don't subscribe we're still going to rest you towards sleep. Yeah, actually indeed, what I think we will do is take the ads out if you subscribe.

1:59:49 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, and it's really only if you want to oh, look at this.

1:59:54 - Leo Laporte
In this washington post article, concerns about connected devices. Limiting features are failing completely, used to be reserved for early adopters, said Stacey Higginbotham, a Consumer Reports Policy Fellow who co-signed the FTC letter. Now the trend is appeared to have spread to products with mainstream appeal. She says Do this in my Stacey voice. More connected devices are being sold to consumers at a higher price point and these high-dollar things are causing a lot of consumer pain.

It's hard to feel sorry for the rich tech bro who's just dabbling in devices, but when it's a mom, she's thinking of me. I could tell when she said that the rich tech bro who's just dabbling in devices, that's me. But when it's a mom who bought something and maybe didn't even realize this was going to happen, it's a little different. I agree you either have the subscription up front or you don't do it. Actually, we added the subscription a couple years ago. Happiest babies, snoo. Changes affect only second-hand buyers. Anybody who rented or bought a new SNU before July 15th gets a free premium subscription for multiple children. It's those who bought the SNU after July 15th who only get nine months of premium access. Many SNU bassinets oh see, this is people forget. When you buy a bassinet, you're not the last person to use it. You're going to hand it down.

2:01:20 - Jeff Jarvis
You shouldn't actually, because maybe there's been a recall and you shouldn't pass down certain things.

2:01:25 - Leo Laporte
Okay, but it says many, they definitely don't pass down car seats. Oh really no. Oh no Because of recalls. Yes, well, if you pass it down.

2:01:34 - Paris Martineau
pass down the paperwork.

2:01:35 - Speaker 2
Yeah, many new the paperwork, yeah many students have changed owners up to 10 times. Well, I mean if it's 1700 I'd sure hope.

2:01:47 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you can rent it for 159 a month. What I'm telling you? You pull out the dresser drawer, you put in some nice comfy stuff, maybe a sheepskin. That's a perfect bassinet. No, we had a bassinet for the kids.

2:02:00 - Paris Martineau
That's what you do one bassinet or two different?

2:02:05 - Leo Laporte
so there is did they reuse. Uh, that's it. No, yeah, I think they reused it, but we were the single owner, so any recalls we would have known about it probably did hand it down. I think almost all that stuff got handed down.

Elon musk says yeah, I cheat, I'm a cheater surprise surprise he admitted account boosting gamers have been pissed off at elon musk for some time I'm sorry, po'd at elon musk for some time, because he keeps claiming he's like uh, he told joe rogan I'm in the top 20 players in the world for diablo 4, and then gamers go. Well, we watched your video, elon, and you clearly bought all of that gear by some poor chinese guy who had a game all night because you don't know how to play the game you know, we're looking at them.

2:02:55 - Benito Gonzalez
Actually, when he was on rogan's show, he showed the clip and I saw the clip. Oh, you saw it. And ro, when he was on Rogan's show, he showed the clip. No, I saw the clip, oh, you saw it. And Rogan, though, was like at one time like a professional quick player, like a very high-level quick player. I didn't know that, so I could see in his eyes like he was skeptical.

2:03:20 - Leo Laporte
He was like no, you didn't put the time in scores. In Diablo 4 and Path of Exile 2, both of which are challenging to say the least, Some players spend most of their hours their waking hours grinding through dungeons and battling monsters so they can get these, you know add-ons. An answer to Musk's unlikely gaming prowess was provided in a video post on YouTube by top Diablo player number one, Nico rex, which showed what he said was a direct message conversation with musk on x in in the conversation. Now again, we have to take nico rex's uh word on this. In the conversation, musk admits to account boosting, usually done by paying somebody in china to play for hours. Uh, nico said have you level boosted and are purchased gear resources for Path of Exile 2 and Diablo 4? Musk responded with a 100% emoji. He later added it's impossible to beat the players in Asia if you don't, as they do.

Guardian could not. This is the Guardian could not independently verify the transcript. Musk did repost the video to his ex account. Okay, that's kind of the seal of approval um interesting musk had permitted nico x rex to post it.

2:04:34 - Benito Gonzalez
He says everybody who looked at it knew right, but he don't know yeah, I mean if you, if you see him play, it's obvious that he doesn't know what he's doing he made rookie mistakes no expert would make, including.

2:04:48 - Leo Laporte
Look, the whole point of diablo is the drops. Right, you defeat somebody, you get a drop, you get some guys. He walked right past valuable items, just walked right by him. You know why? I don't need that, I can buy it. He got into big arguments over people saying you know, at the end of a conversation with nico, ricks mucks must claim to be a living god of video games that's, and then the really creepy thing is do you see grimes tweet?

no, which did have that uh hostage vibe grimes tweeted. Just for my personal pride, I would like to state that the father of my children was the first american druid in diablo to clear abattoir of zeer and ended that season as best in the usa. He was also ranking in polytopia and beat felix himself at the game. I did observe these things with my own eyes.

There are other witnesses who can verify this, that is crazy to which elon says thanks, and then david says he outgames me regularly hardcore, yeah, okay, fine, first of all, who cares? But what's what's sad is for the richest man in the world to lie about his prowess no, this is.

2:06:04 - Benito Gonzalez
This is actually telling about what actually matters to him yeah, he wants you to like him. He wants you to think he's the best at everything the best gamer there ever was or just like naturally good at anything he tries you know what I mean like that sort of that's it he's a genius yeah, and if you don't believe, it's sad, but he's nothing sad about him no, it's just weird.

2:06:32 - Leo Laporte
All right, I think we should wrap this up. Get our, get your picks ready, kids, because it's 720. Paris has a hip venue to go to. She's got to go to Bushwick.

2:06:42 - Speaker 2
I've got to go to Bushwick. Is it one of those house?

2:06:44 - Paris Martineau
parties where you know the password. It's at a full bleep club. It's at a full club yeah.

2:06:55 - Jeff Jarvis
People are going to fill the bleep in On a Wednesday night.

2:06:59 - Paris Martineau
No no no.

2:07:03 - Leo Laporte
It's at a whole club whole club.

2:07:05 - Paris Martineau
What are you gonna wear this? I'm not gonna change it in my sweater. It's freezing outside everybody bundled up, is it a? Rave no, it's definitely like some people playing, uh, I don't know, various bands like it's, I think, three or four different bands are playing there in the middle of a play. Yeah, it's a wednesday night. It may be a club, but it is a. It's like a bushwick club.

2:07:31 - Jeff Jarvis
There's like a are there still raves, or was that a grandpa question?

2:07:34 - Paris Martineau
no, there's definitely still raves.

2:07:36 - Benito Gonzalez
I just don't do that there will always be raves, but not the type where you go. Go to a parking lot to get the password anymore. I don't think that happens anymore, right.

2:07:43 - Paris Martineau
No they do.

2:07:44 - Leo Laporte
After they burnt down in Oakland.

2:07:46 - Paris Martineau
I've got some rave friends and they're always in a really weird place at like 8 am on a Sunday.

2:07:52 - Leo Laporte
They come home with glow sticks and bracelets.

2:08:01 - Paris Martineau
I mean now in the carnage group, the ray of friends I know come home to where they have perfectly prepped a skincare routine, all the pajamas, a light meal and some water that they have and then they pass out and I'm like good for you.

2:08:09 - Leo Laporte
I got to do a mask. I've been up all night, oh my god I feel like I'm so.

2:08:15 - Paris Martineau
My skin is so dry from all the drugs.

2:08:19 - Leo Laporte
All right, we'll be back with Picks of the Week. You're watching this Week in Google Paris Martineau. On the left, that is, of course, she is theinformationcom. And let's not forget, if you've got a tip, a hot tip, her signal is Martineau.01.

2:08:35 - Paris Martineau
Send me good story ideas.

2:08:36 - Leo Laporte
Send her a good story idea. And that other guy on the right, that's, uh, jeff jarvis, the author of the web we weave the gutenberg parenthesis magazine. I just what would google do?

2:08:47 - Jeff Jarvis
you're writing a new book, jeff. I am history of the line, a cultural history of the linotype in the long century of mass media that's going to be fascinating it is colder in new york city right now than it is in antarctica.

2:09:04 - Paris Martineau
It's 11 degrees out here in jersey that's why I'm wearing a sweater to the club on the on.

2:09:10 - Leo Laporte
This is from patrick delahanty says the filchner ron ice shelf in antarctica it's 20 degrees fahrenheit colder in new york city don't say I don't love my friends we're freezing. Here was 40 degrees when I was cold. All right time for uh pics of the week.

2:09:30 - Jeff Jarvis
Let's start with you, mr jeff jarvis well, I could do a different couple things, but uh, edelman pr company comes out every year for 25 years with its trust barometer and it came out this year and the entire topic when is my machines going off?

2:09:46 - Leo Laporte
You've got your machine your battery's dying.

2:09:48 - Jeff Jarvis
My screen just went blank. I don't know why it's doing that.

2:09:51 - Leo Laporte
Well, I can play 28 days of media slides. Is this it? No, no, no, it's the one above that.

2:09:56 - Jeff Jarvis
We can do that too.

2:10:05 - Leo Laporte
We can do that too.

2:10:05 - Jeff Jarvis
We can do that too well okay, you're talking about whiner, so it's all about grievances. It's festive, the whole world is whining. There's this Festivus poll, okay, and so Edelman uh uh has 33 000 people. Six in ten people hold grievances against business, government and the rich.

2:10:16 - Leo Laporte
Yes, by the way, you know what grievances lead to all sorts of addictive behaviors.

2:10:23 - Jeff Jarvis
If you go back to my post. I have the screenshots, are there?

2:10:27 - Leo Laporte
oh good, much more, much more useful, easier, uh job insecurity.

2:10:32 - Jeff Jarvis
So stay here for a second. So, like more than half of people believe their job is threatened by globalization, economic pressures and technology, which would say that, as if tomorrow, one half of all jobs should go away. So that's not reality, that's perception. So where does that perception come from? In what I call a chicken and rotten egg cycle. And if you scroll a little more, since I can't see it, here's the joke, here's the chilling bit, here's go back down, down, down down yeah maybe you'll call it up at apple, but I call it down.

No, no, just go back, we'll go back to the next part, was you mean?

2:11:09 - Leo Laporte
up here um or higher. This is the first thing. One screen down this is the second, another screen down and this is the third thing.

2:11:22 - Jeff Jarvis
No, now you went too far again oh, you want he wants the big italicized. I won't want that. No, I went above that above earlier in it.

2:11:30 - Paris Martineau
Can't tell you how gripping this is okay this is great radio guys yeah, yeah, earlier up up stop.

2:11:37 - Jeff Jarvis
Here's the chilly bit, okay, okay, a majority of young adults age 18 to 34 53 see hostile activism as a viable means to drive change. The percentages are lessened for older people. So it averages out of 40. See this of of the of that total, what is hostile activism? I'm going to answer that for you. Okay, 27 I can't see it now so I can't read it say I love the, I love the air time, I love the screen time, but you know I gotta see it jeff, go up to the top and click leo report screen instead of meeting, let me make it bigger for you.

2:12:14 - Leo Laporte
Here we go. All right, go ahead thank you.

2:12:16 - Jeff Jarvis
thank you, paris, thank you. Go All right, go ahead. Thank you. Thank you, paris. Thank you, young lady. So 27% see hostile action as engaging in online personal attacks against individuals who you see as standing in the way of the change you want to see. Oh, wow.

Online personal attacks 25% would create or share exaggerated or even false online content to influence public opinion. 23% threaten or engage in physical violence against institutions and this is my emphasis or groups Groups, you see, a standing in the way of the change you want to see. And 23% to damage or destroy public and or private property to bring attention to the change you want to see. But I have to.

2:12:58 - Leo Laporte
To be fair, this is always a problem with polls like this. They weren't asked if they would do this. They were merely asked would this be a viable means to drive change? Would it work?

2:13:10 - Jeff Jarvis
Would any of you say that attacking someone violently is a viable means of change? Yeah, but it doesn't mean they would do it.

2:13:16 - Leo Laporte
It means yeah, they're saying it's viable.

2:13:17 - Jeff Jarvis
They're saying it's okay. It also depends on the kind of change you're talking about.

2:13:20 - Benito Gonzalez
I mean to be honest, like most of the big change in the world had come through violence.

2:13:26 - Paris Martineau
I mean to play devil's advocate. You could say that the one that you were shocked most by to threaten or engage in physical violence against the institutions or groups you see is standing in the way of change you want to see. That's the, you know civil rights movement um, it's also january 6th.

2:13:41 - Jeff Jarvis
No, a lot of a lot of civil rights movement was non-violent hello it's also hitler and rudolph too.

2:13:46 - Leo Laporte
So like you know, like it's a war, and gandhi well anyway I think the examples of violence are far more than the examples of non-violent here's another interesting one so fear of discrimination.

2:13:59 - Jeff Jarvis
Yeah, you're being discriminated against. Surges across all demographics, and if you are a person of color makes perfect sense. But in america 40, 48 I can't write 48 of white people say that they are the victim of discrimination what right. That's the kind of grievance we live in now now you think, think okay.

2:14:20 - Leo Laporte
This is why people don't like DEI, right? Because they feel like that's discriminatory.

2:14:24 - Jeff Jarvis
That's what's brought them to this. But you think, okay, journalists are going to say, well, we're going to fix that. Not so fast. Clark Kent Media the belief of many people. More than half believe that news organizations would rather attract a big audience than tell people what they need to know.

2:14:42 - Leo Laporte
That's probably true.

2:14:43 - Jeff Jarvis
And among people who are high grievance, they have low, medium and high grievance. Three quarters of people believe that they also fear going down, that leaders lie to us. 70% of people this year believe that journalists, reporters, lie, 68% business leaders, 69% government leaders. They're not that AI there's.

2:15:09 - Leo Laporte
They're suspicious about that there is definitely a trust problem in this country, created by our leaders who lie to be honest Well, and others and others.

2:15:20 - Jeff Jarvis
Trust in all news sources declines. Interestingly, the most trusted news source search engines 63%. This is global Traditional media 58%, owned media 47% and social media 42%, which you should see, I think, is good news is people don't trust social media. Finally, the only good news here is people still trust scientists and teachers, though that's why certain angles of the country are trying to attack them I'm surprised to hear that.

I thought that there wasn't a lot of trust for science this is worldwide, so it oh, this is global, oh, okay this is 28 countries, or, in some cases, 27 or 26. Yeah, so I found that to be sobering disheartening.

2:16:03 - Leo Laporte
Yes, that is disheartening I'm not a fan also of polls?

2:16:07 - Jeff Jarvis
I'm not either. I hate them. No, uh, but uh, I think they rarely reflect I prefer columns well, if it's a festivus poll, that's different that's true so the media slides have a few interesting things in them are they also on this again I can't do it go ahead, show our, show, my screen, I'll.

2:16:26 - Leo Laporte
I'll scroll up for you.

2:16:27 - Jeff Jarvis
There you go, you're a very bad scroller leo influence is earned through compassion, not power that's the end of no, that's the end of this. That's, that's all that's all I'm saying do you think the other thing on the rundown? Oh, there's more we want to get paris to her face, okay, so?

2:16:44 - Speaker 2
we could also imagine.

2:16:45 - Leo Laporte
The world is wondering that netflix's uk audiences now surpasses bbc one wow, isn't that interesting, that's a big by the way, netflix response to raise their price yes, yep, exactly, and stop reporting how many people 17.99 a month by the way.

2:17:02 - Jeff Jarvis
Oh expensive, I know it's almost a bassinet subscription yes, it doesn't lull you to sleep you have a choice between your baby and watching a squid game did you do my cachoy pepe story last week after I left? We did, we did. Yeah, did you laugh at me?

2:17:19 - Leo Laporte
yes, well, I laughed at the recipe that the scientists came up with.

2:17:24 - Paris Martineau
I would leo doesn't believe in science. He's part of that percentage of people. He's like this is ridiculous, we don't need cheese, salt, pepper and pasta.

2:17:34 - Leo Laporte
It's all you need. The key to making it creamy is the pasta water, not some phony creamy thing you're putting in there. But the point is, it's not as easy as you insist, don't put cornstarch in your cacio e pepe.

2:17:46 - Jeff Jarvis
I think, yeah, you get kicked out of it.

2:17:48 - Leo Laporte
That's a mistake I'll never forget going over when I was a kid, going over to somebody's house and they were making tomato sauce and they put cornstarch in it. And I thought to somebody's house and they were making tomato sauce and they put cornstarch in it and I thought I'm never eating here again.

2:18:03 - Paris Martineau
Why I was a kid. I've never thought about cornstarch in any way, positive or negative.

2:18:10 - Leo Laporte
I mean, I know, why would you? Be against a thickening agent because a good little snob I was, a little 12 year old snob is why my mom I never puts corn to starch in the pasta sauce. What is your pick of the week there?

2:18:26 - Paris Martineau
My pick of the week is this podcast called John revision that I found last week and have really been digging. I found this cause I I watched in honor of David Lynch wild at heart with some friends this weekend and as I often do now when I'm watching movies Watched in honor of David Lynch Wild at Heart with some friends this weekend and as I often do now when I'm watching movies I want to hear somebody talk intelligently about it in a podcast so I can help process what I just went through and I've done this a million times where I type in the little name of whatever movie.

2:18:51 - Leo Laporte
These are some of the worst movies ever made.

2:18:53 - Paris Martineau
Well, I mean. So the thing is they do movie reviews by month basically, and so they could. I think this month could be some of the worst movies month.

2:19:03 - Leo Laporte
Oh, okay, they recently do, because some of these are good, like Galaxy Quest was good. I like that.

2:19:07 - Benito Gonzalez
They'll do various themes. Looks like a whole Sigourney Weaver block.

2:19:09 - Paris Martineau
Yeah, so they'll do a Sigourney Weaver block or they'll do a Screwball Comedy month.

Oh okay, know different things like that, and so I found this podcast and it's. I've truly tried so many podcasts for movie stuff. This is the first one. I found that I was genuinely entranced by. The hosts do great like textual analysis of like each movie, but then also kind of the actress performance just everything you'd want from someone talking about a movie you just watched and they're funny too. They have a section in the show where they talk about the shelf which is like hearings with a particular movie. Like what other movie or tv shows would be similar to it, I don't know. I've listened to like five or six episodes recently and I really would recommend it and you need to find film youtube I can't get into youtube videos at this point.

It's been at this point.

2:19:59 - Benito Gonzalez
It's about film Like you need to see Listen.

2:20:01 - Paris Martineau
I know, but it's like if I open that Pandora's box and become a person that consumes.

2:20:08 - Leo Laporte
You become a toxic masculine.

2:20:10 - Paris Martineau
I will yeah, I'll join the alt-right and also have no social life, because all I will do is watch YouTube videos so. Youtube is right now I'm just exploring watching movies again. Youtube is like another five years down the line.

2:20:24 - Leo Laporte
YouTube is a rabbit hole. It's easy to fall down and you never get out of. Yeah, I agree with you. This looks good. Did they have genre vision? Did they have wild at heart?

2:20:32 - Paris Martineau
They did and they had a great I don't know review of it. I I went through their episode on Vampire's. Kiss One of my favorite films from Nick Vember was fantastic and I think really did it justice, I don't know, would recommend it.

2:20:46 - Leo Laporte
So you would probably not go chronologically, but you'd find the movie I would recommend. Yeah.

2:20:52 - Paris Martineau
I'd recommend looking up movies you want to hear someone talk about. It's likely that they probably have talked about it they have Holy cow. They've been doing it for quite some time and they really are thorough with.

2:21:05 - Leo Laporte
I hesitate to even call them reviews, because they kind of like go through everything I want great yeah a discussion of a film wow, terminator 2 versus the iron giant that sounds good yeah, and so they'll do like.

2:21:18 - Paris Martineau
They put out their schedule like a month or two in advance so you can watch along if you want to like watch as they go out. But I so far have just been going through their back catalog and listening to like podcasts about movies I've already seen and it's been delightful.

2:21:35 - Leo Laporte
Drew Dietsch, travis Newton, danielle Ryan, nick Murray. The people check them out of genre vision.

2:21:45 - Jeff Jarvis
it's at genre visioncom they have ads I they have subscriptions.

2:21:50 - Paris Martineau
They don't have ads, but they do have a subscription. They have a patreon, I don't know. It's a great question.

2:21:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah.

2:21:58 - Paris Martineau
Oh, and they're cheap. They're less than us. It's on wherever you've got.

2:22:00 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, podcast $5 a month.

2:22:03 - Paris Martineau
It's wherever podcasts are.

2:22:06 - Leo Laporte
Wherever you get your podcasts. Nice, that's good. I like to support other podcasts, especially if they're good. All right, thank you so much, paris Martineau. Get out of there. You got to go to Bush Week. They're good. All right, thank you so much, paris Martineau. Get out of there. You got to go to Bushwick. You got 20 minutes to get to the rave. I hope you have a wonderful time. I shall Do you have. I'm curious because Petaluma's music scene is almost entirely cover bands. Is that the case in New York?

2:22:32 - Paris Martineau
No, no, it's the center of the universe. They have cover bands, certainly, but the bands I'm going to go see are going to be playing all of their own music, their own music Almost all the bands here, and they're good musicians.

2:22:44 - Leo Laporte
There's Petty Theft and AZDZ.

2:22:48 - Paris Martineau
No, but I mean, that's the thing I think. In smaller markets I have friends in the town where I grew up. They're all musicians and basically no bar will book you. The thing is bars, don't book you unless you're a cover band.

2:23:01 - Benito Gonzalez
Yeah, except for the city. You have to play in the city.

2:23:04 - Leo Laporte
So big cities, you're going to get original music. Honestly, I want to hear songs I know so I can sing along.

2:23:11 - Paris Martineau
I mean, that's why that's why?

2:23:13 - Leo Laporte
yeah, they're playing to the audience.

2:23:24 - Benito Gonzalez
I think we're going to see the illegals uh, this saturday. They're great.

2:23:27 - Paris Martineau
Oh and eagles cover band I guess. Yeah, ill eagle. Okay, I thought that was.

2:23:29 - Leo Laporte
I was like huh, no, they're in the age of donald trump no, no, they're not illegal they're illegals and the good news is that the lead singers are contractors, so so it all ties in.

2:23:41 - Jeff Jarvis
He's missing one finger on the guitar, but it's okay.

2:23:44 - Leo Laporte
He is the lead singer of AZDZ, which is an excellent ACDC cover band and of the Ill Eagles, and he's probably in three other bands too.

2:23:55 - Benito Gonzalez
And there's a Robbie Baldwin friend of the network who's in a bunch of cover bands too.

2:23:57 - Leo Laporte
That's right. Robbie does all of that network. Who's in a bunch of cover bands too? That's right, robbie does all of that. Yeah, he's got a Daft Punk cover band. Remember, he made the helmets, he's got a Devo cover band. He's got Devo. Yeah, Robbie's great. All right, folks. Jeff Jarvis. He is a professor emeritus of journalistic innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City University of Newark, Now playing at SUNY, Stony Brook and Briarcliff a girls' school oh sorry, no Montclair State.

2:24:32 - Speaker 2
Have you ever thought of teaching at Briarcliff?

2:24:34 - Leo Laporte
The girls' school.

2:24:38 - Speaker 2
It's just so, so feminine. I don't it's toxic.

2:24:42 - Paris Martineau
I love that you gave a little description of it too, as if this is part of your stick I don't know where I came up with that anyway, it's a school for girls not

2:24:55 - Leo Laporte
a girl's school school for girls school, a ghoul for skrills, exactly. Thank you, jeff jarvis. Buy his books because god knows he needs the money. The web we weave the gutenberg parenthesis magazine. Buy two of that because it's cute and you can give it to somebody. Thank you, jeff thank you thank you.

We love you guys and so much fun doing the same job I hope the audience feels the same way, although I have my doubts. We we do our best, guys. We're just trying here. We're just trying to do what we can to make a good show. I know I know we do this week in Google, soon to be intelligent machines, but we're going to do it the same time. Nothing else is going to change, just the name and the music and the album art. No more of that silly. I almost said fruity, but you can't say that anymore paris has tried not to even laugh at this I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just it's silly.

It's a silly little tune. Uh, we're getting rid of that. And uh, benito's rightness, are you, is it hard rock? But you know you can do something really I mean I it's intelligent machines.

2:26:10 - Benito Gonzalez
I was.

2:26:10 - Paris Martineau
I was leaning more towards like the synthy cyber edm kind of a yeah I want to be able to drive a motorcycle through a psychic, through a you know, futuristic city to it.

2:26:21 - Benito Gonzalez
I'm like you know, it's like Tron the Tron theme.

2:26:24 - Leo Laporte
Okay, that's yeah, stay tuned. That's going to debut in a couple of weeks. We do these shows every Wednesday, 2 pm Pacific, 5 pm Eastern, 2200 UTC. Stream it live on eight different platforms. Yes, we're back on tiktok kids eight. Count them eight. Discord for the club members youtube, twitch, tiktok xcom, linkedin, facebook and kick. You pick where you want to watch. If you're chatting, I see all the chat comments, don't worry.

2:26:55 - Jeff Jarvis
So you're in and and you can. You can follow my feeds. Oh, yes, he's on x linkedin and facebook.

2:27:02 - Leo Laporte
Oh, and you'll find it there all of those tiktok, linkedin and facebook, nice. So if you're following jeff on any of those platforms, you'll see that you can't get away from the show. After the show, we make on-demand versions available, audio or video, on our website. Twittv twig. There'sa youtube channel dedicated to the video, but of course, the best thing to do is subscribe. Wherever you get your podcast, your favorite podcast client download it automatically and you'll have it every week so that you can shake your fists at the clouds and and grieve us grievances, all your grievances, with us. Thank you guys. Have fun tonight paris, that's wonderful.

2:27:40 - Jeff Jarvis
And jeff, enjoy your sad little microwave meal paris is gonna go out in the cold and we're just you and I we're gonna stay home, we got I got the tv tray all set up it's gonna be good got the swansons ready to go swansons.

2:27:59 - Leo Laporte
I love it because it all you know.

2:28:00 - Paris Martineau
I got the fried chicken dinner with the apple pie and the mashed potatoes you don't have to dirty multiple plates, you don't have to dirty any plates and it all tastes the same.

2:28:09 - Leo Laporte
It tastes like you like one part of it. You like it all.

2:28:12 - Jeff Jarvis
It really did taste like aluminum, yeah it was all kind of cardboardy and that's why it tastes like aluminum if one part is cold and frozen in the middle and it's still fine. Oh, it was magical how they did it.

2:28:22 - Leo Laporte
Do they still sell Swansons? I'm having a little bit of a craving for the old TV dinners. Did you ever have them, Paris? Your parents wouldn't do that.

2:28:32 - Benito Gonzalez
Even if they still make them, it will not taste anywhere like it used to ConAgra brand.

2:28:45 - Leo Laporte
Coming in hot is their slogan. Oh lord, okay, fine, uh, thank you everybody. We'll see you next time wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

2:28:50 - Jeff Jarvis
One last on ebay for 145 dollars you can buy a 1960s Swanson turkey cranberry mashed potato dinner. I hope it's just the box.

2:29:02 - Paris Martineau
What Buy it? Leo Buy it and eat it all.

2:29:06 - Jeff Jarvis
$45 or best offer. Oh my God, look, tangy cranberry sauce Peas in butter sauce.

2:29:16 - Leo Laporte
Oh, that's a fridge magnet. I got a fridge magnet magnet, which would be excellent. You know what's weird, though? Modern fridges aren't magnetic that's messed up that's really messed up. We're gonna put the kids pictures 1970s swanson tv.

2:29:31 - Jeff Jarvis
Well, that's cheap 695.

2:29:33 - Leo Laporte
695.

2:29:35 - Jeff Jarvis
oh it's what I just put up with. These are no 145. If you go up the Discord, the more expensive ones are actual food.

2:29:45 - Leo Laporte
All right, paris. Thank you so much, everybody. We'll see you next time this week in Google. Bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye. © transcript Emily.

2:29:54 - Speaker 2
Beynon.