Untitled Linux Show 194 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

00:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
This week we're talking about Ubuntu and the Rust Core Utils, garuda's new Cosmic Edition, there's updates to Audacity and Pipewire and more. Intel has a new CEO, amd has a new killer CPU and lots more. It's been an exciting week. You don't want to miss it, so stay tuned.

00:20 - Leo (Announcement)
Podcasts you love.

00:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
From people you trust.

00:24 - Leo (Announcement)
This is.

00:25 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Twit. This is the Untitled Linux Show, episode 194, recorded Saturday, march 15th. Less useful than React OS. Hey folks, it is Saturday and you know what that means. It's time to get geeky with Linux, open source hardware, software. It's the Untitled Linux Show. We're going to have a lot of fun today. It is not just me. We've got Ken and we've got Rob. Jeff is off at an undisclosed location taking care of something, but I'm sure he'll be back another week, but for now it is the trio, the three of us, and we've got some stuff to cover. We're going to let Rob go first and Rob. This is a story that really caught my eye this week, and it is something sort of surprising that Ubuntu is doing. What thing are they doing that's so surprising?

01:16 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, you know, as we all know, we've seen a lot of drama over Rust and Linux over the past month or so and the results are in that it isn't going anywhere. The heads of Linux themselves are all behind bringing Rust into the kernel. You know who else apparently likes Rust. As Jonathan already implied, it is canonical. Starting with the Ubuntu 25.10 release slated for late this year, canonical engineer John Seeger announced plans to make use of more Rust written components in Ubuntu. He says, and I quote starting with Ubuntu 25.10, my goal is to adopt some of these modern implementations as the default. My immediate goal is to make UUtils core utils implementation the default in Ubuntu 25.10 and subsequently in our next long-term support release, which would be Ubuntu 26.04 LTS, if the conditions are right. And the reason that they have the canonical is with Ubuntu appear to be the same reasons we keep hearing over and over again. You know, the big one being added safety provided by the Rust programming language, and the other one that, at least for a long time, I didn't really know was a benefit. But we seem to keep hearing this is the performance benefits of Rust, apparently. You know I don't know if it's the Rust language itself or people just getting a fresh crack and having more time to focus on the big issues. On these little side bug cases caused by Rust I don't know what it is, but apparently performance is a benefit is, but apparently performance is a benefit.

03:28
So the first Rust components being evaluated for Ubuntu 25.10 are the utils version of core utils, find utils and diff utils, along with also the Rust written sudo replacement, which is pseudo-RS. John also says we need to do so carefully and be willing to scale back on the ambition where appropriate to avoid diluting the promise of stability and reliability that the Ubuntu LTS releases have become known for. But I'm confident we can make progress on these topics over the coming months. And you know, with this announcement it's just in time for the release of Rust Core Utils 0.0.30 as they work towards compatibility with the core utils 9.6. I'm not sure how their version goes, but I suppose I could have dug into it. But to me 0.0.30 sounds like a very early release to be going into an LTS. But apparently it must be more stable and further along than that version number makes makes it appear if they're willing to put an LTS already.

04:51 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, so I I have been, I've been impressed over the years with the UU tills. I, we, we interviewed him a floss weekly back several months ago and they they actually work pretty closely with the core utils guys. And there's another I can't remember what the name of the other project is there's one more project U-U-Tils is the Rust one, isn't it? There's core utils itself, there's U-U-Tils, which is Rust, and there's one more project that is another reimplementation of core utils and I can't I can't remember at the moment what it is, but they all work together pretty closely to develop like a test suite that they run all of them through because they want them to, except for the few cases where they want them to behave differently. They want that to happen on purpose. Otherwise, these are all supposed to behave exactly the same for every test case imaginable, and the fact that they have that compatibility really running pretty well at this point is probably why they're willing, why Ubuntu is willing, to even consider doing this.

06:00 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I wonder if there'll be a point where the Rust core utils puts the original C-based core utils out of a job.

06:10 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Maybe, but it's going to be like a long time, right, that's not going to happen anytime soon, right? Interestingly, core utils is a reimplementation of the original Unix core utils tools. So we're not even of the original Unix core utils tools, so we're not even on the original one still it's. You know, we're like two re-implementations away, removed from that. Now Fun stuff. All right, ken, do you have the audacity to talk about?

06:43 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
this story I do. In fact, bobby Borisoff and Morris Nestor had the audacity to write about the popular open source audio editing software, audacity, releasing version 3.7.2. This release offers a series of fixes and quality of life improvements. According to Marius, audacity 3.7.2 improves the Ubuntu 22.04 app image bundle by fixing an issue with the FFmpeg multimedia server loading. It also adds a new option to turn off automatic tempo detection. That way, if you don't want it to automatically detect the tempo when you're editing something, you can turn that off.

07:39
Now Bobby wrote about Audacity 3.7.2 fixing the issue where applying effects across multiple tracks with one of those tracks being empty, causing crashes, and we can thank Govinda Madhava and I apologize if I mispronounce that for fixing label text using the wrong color in dark themes, and also Christopher Rooney for returning the residue option in noise reduction. Now Audacity 3.7.2 also fixed some crashes emanating from the mixer window adding an info box when saving a project in a new version, breaking compatibility with old one, adding a new get effects button next to the upload audio button and adding UUID instance support. Now, since I've only touched on some of the improvements and fixes, I do recommend finding about others through Bobby and Morris's articles. We've got them linked in our show notes. Have we posted them in the Discord chat yet? That's the first thing I did, okay.

08:55 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
The second.

08:56 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Thing was the live stream.

08:57 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yes, for one, I am happy to see Audacity continue on and the fact that they are continuing to release updates. We've talked about this before, but once upon a time, audacity continue on and the fact that they are continuing to release updates We've talked about this before, but once upon a time Audacity got taken over by new owners and it was a little sketchy there for a minute and people were sort of abandoning the ship, and so I'm just I'm sort of happy that they are continuing to push it out and it seems like we're not particularly having problems with them anymore.

09:24 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Has uh? Has anybody heard anything about the uh, the fork or forks that were supposed to replace it? Due to all that uh uproar, I I think it just kind of went away as far as I, as far as my uh circles go.

09:37 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
But I think the fork ended up bending back into audacity hmm, uh was, it was tenacity one of them oh, I think so I think that was

09:48 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
one of them I mean, they're probably still out there, maybe, but I had noticed about rebase, so they're, they're, they're last the the tenacity. Last update on github was a couple of months ago and it's in them that they're in the midst of a huge rebase. They're rebasing against upstream Audacity, so it's not a hard fort.

10:09 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Oh yeah.

10:11 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I find that it's easier for me to record vinyl with Audacity than when I've tried to compare to using Ardor.

10:23 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Well, I mean, that's the thing with Audacity, right, the things that it can do, most of them are going to be a little bit easier. I've heard it described as, when it comes to working with audio, it's like Notepad, whereas Ardor is more like a full-fledged word processor suite. I think it's fairly typical, fairly accurate. In other words, it's the Notepad version of a DAW compared to Hardware. Yes, yes, exactly.

10:45 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, I've used Audacity quite a few times over the years but my needs have been so basic. I've used maybe some of the filtering, tried to take out a little background noise or really have fun and play around and put some echo in there, but that was never any serious reasons of that.

11:05 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Speaking of the background noise, one of the things they mentioned here in these headlines is they added the residue option back. I don't know why they would have removed that, because it's super useful. That is, when you're doing filtering, trying to get rid of that background noise, you hit residue and it will play you just the part that it's removed. And so that's useful, because if you can hear people's voices in there, you know you're getting rid of some of the signal that you wanted to keep, whereas if it's just all hiss and static, then you know you're getting rid of what you want to do so all right, um this, I have a story, and it is one that I am sort of sad that rob is not here for, and, uh, that's because he has been sort of covering this beat about Intel.

11:48 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'm here. That would be Jeff. That would be Jeff you're thinking of.

11:50 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Did I really.

11:53 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Rob is here.

11:54 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I saw Rob's name and that's what came out of my mouth, I'm sure.

11:57 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
No, you're not Rob.

11:59 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'm not the guy covering this stuff.

12:01 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Jeff is not here, wow.

12:04 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I understand guy covering this stuff, but jeff is not here. Wow, I understand. I know you can't get my name off you guys just look so much.

12:10 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, that looks so similar. That's what it is. I get mixed up all the time anyway. Um, not here. So we I will have to cover it as well I can, which, as you can already tell, is going to be challenging. Um, intel is a new ceo and the new CEO is how does exactly tan it's like wing boo tan Hang on, it's right here Lip boo tan. It's a Malaysian name, which is why I have trouble trying to come up with it and pronounce it.

12:42
He's been with Intel sort of on and off for a while. He came into the company as the result of an acquisition of another sort of fabulous company, which is interesting, and he was pushing back. When he was part of the board, part of the leadership of Intel. He was pushing to, as he says, reduce Intel's bloated US task force. So he was very much on board with we're paying too much overhead for people. We need to eliminate some of those positions and he was removed. He made the argument that the task force there, the workforce, was inefficient and overly bureaucratic. He was removed from his position, kind of demoted, and then eventually, as things changed at Intel, he has been brought back and now put in charge as the CEO and he has noted some things that he wants to work on. One of the big things is Intel wants to become a fab for other companies, and that's something that he has some experience in, sort of the other side of that being the fabulous company coming to a fab, and of course he also wants to. He also wants to concentrate on artificial intelligence, like everybody else in that industry does right now. I think he's sort of required to say that, or else the markets will just have a fit.

14:10
So far, investors seem to be taking well to this news and tells stock prices up. At the time of this article, writing was up by like 15%. That's just the market doing its thing. No real changes have happened yet and, as Jeff has reminded us several times these things in places like Intel, the Q&A on a chip may be starting now, so it's going to be the chip after that that he really has his hands in the very beginning of, and there's going to be like a two-year lag until that actually makes it out the door. So if Intel has a turnaround in the next two years and they release awesome chips, it is not Tan that did it. It was his predecessor, pat Gelsinger, and then two, two and a half years go down the line. Then we can start looking at the things that they do, and that will be Mr Tan at work. So it's it's challenging to try to discern how well he's doing until that happens. But Intel finally has somebody once again at the head.

15:20 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
You know that's that scenario of lag results or whatever reminds me of so many other things in life.

15:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yes, yes, you have to play the long game.

15:30 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
At least he's got experience with chip making, and you know.

15:35 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
He is an engineer, right? That's one of the things we've said as well. If Intel got another bean counter at the top, they might really have problems. And he actually has a physics and engineering background, so he's got that going for him for sure.

15:47 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, so set that clock and let's see where we're at in 2027. I don't know what year it is. I had to figure that out first.

15:56 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, Goodness.

15:58 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I have that problem sometimes too.

16:00 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
The big question is where will Intel be in 2030?

16:06 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, that'll give him some time to get some chips out. He'll probably be on another CEO by then, though let's be honest, that's what I was wondering.

16:13 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
If he'd still be the CEO, oh, hard to tell.

16:18 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, so let's talk about some Linux stuff. We've been everywhere else, Rob. What is the new news in Cosmic?

16:27 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, so time for another Linux distro that is showing some Rust love Garuda Linux. So Garuda isn't adopting the Rust core utils At least I don't think they are. I'm sure you can get it there, but it's not by default. But they are adopting another future heavyweight in Rust based desktop environments. Let me get that out of my tongue there. I just had a nap so I didn't have time to warm up. So, and of course, as Jonathan pointed out, I am talking about Cosmic. So the Cosmic desktop it's written by System76 for Pop OS, but they've been designing it in a way that's been making it open for everyone else and even though it's only on the Alpha 6 release, the buzz in the community is making it appear like this Rust-based desktop will. It's going to be a huge thing once it's out there, because Garuda being it's one of the more popular Arch-based Linux distros. I mean, there's not a lot of Arch-based Linux distros, but it's definitely one of the more popular ones.

17:51 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I was going to say that's not saying much, man.

17:55 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
But you know what they do. I mean one thing they make it easy to install Arch. You don't have to use the script. You know it installs like any other distro. And they script you know it installs like any other distro. And they like to bring, put a lot of their own flair and design style into into their, their desktops. So you know they already have several additions, you know, including kde, plasma, gnome, xfce, sentiment, hyper, sway, i3, and others, and now they're adding the Cosmic desktop to the mix. So you know, like I said, they often do tweaks and refinements to really snazz up their desktop.

18:38
But Cosmic at this time is pretty much bare bones. You know, in their announcement announcement what they say is, quote it is very bare bones at the moment, basically just the stock cosmic packages on garuda base. But if there is community interest in this, we can certainly build it up as people chime in with their tweaks and ideas. So if you like Cosmic and you like Arch-based distros like Garuda, but you really want some fun Garuda-style tweaks, try it out. Give them the ideas in including their brand new welcome app called Garuda Rani, as well as the Garuda Settings Manager, firedragon web browser, garuda Boot Repair, garuda Chirrut. Garuda Network Assistant, garuda System Maintenance, garuda Boot Options and other tools. But you know, being the desktop is in alpha, there will be missing features and bugs, but it is fairly usable and available for download today if you wanted to give it a spin. So for those watching, you can see my background. I took a. I took a screenshot of when I was installing it, so there's the installer right there behind me.

20:01
Um, but then I also have uh, let me get to the right screen here, I have it running here on a VM to give it a shot see what it looked like. You know I had the terminal running and it pops up. You know, with the nice I don't know what software they use but neo fetch like display there. But you know they have it looks pretty much like cosmic.

20:30 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
For those who have seen cosmic before, um, you know they don't have their fun fancy touches in there, but going through it seems like a lot of the features are in there already one of the things that'll be fun going forwards is to see the garuda team add their, their touches and and their customizations to that, because you look through some of their other like additions. They have a bunch of them for one thing, but you look through them and they have some pretty heavy customization that they do with the theming and the defaults and all kinds of stuff like that yeah, and in fact bobby borisoff was impressed with uh, one of the editions that's called the mocha edition sounds like it's uh sounds familiar themed katie plasma experience interesting yeah, because I'm sure a lot of these other distros are going to use the standard, the default Pop OS or not Pop OS, cosmic Desktop or pretty close, where I could really see Garuda taking it to the next level, which would be fun.

21:42 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I mean, I may myself, I may just want to run something a little more stock, but it's fun to see some fun tweaks to it.

21:50 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yeah, you wouldn't like to try out the Hyperland edition of Garuda?

21:56 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I might. I've been interested in Hyperland, but I have never tried it yet.

22:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That might actually be an interesting way to approach Hyperland, because everything I've always heard about it is like it's awesome once you get all of your customization done. But you just about have to have become a developer to be able to do that and from what I understand of Garuda, they go in and they, they, they, they're opinionated and they do some of that setup for you. So that might actually be the sweet spot in getting a taste of what Hyperland can be like.

22:25 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
So that might actually be the sweet spot in getting a taste of what Hyperland can be like. Yeah, I will say the whole install process for Garuda was pretty slick, and even the post-installation. They had a nice way to help get you started A nice wizard, I guess, to help get things installed. I didn't really go into it, I kind of clicked through, looked at it all and um, moved on. So it's.

22:48 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I'm only doing this for demonstration purposes today how many, how many desktops do you have queued up that you need to try daily driving before you can get to something running on garuda? Daily driving, oh I you've got like two right. You said you would try one, and then there was another one that you said you try after that I don't, I don't remember what I said.

23:09 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I'd try after mint, but uh maybe one of these days.

23:14 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Eventually, rob will make it through his backlog and he'll land on garuda for a while.

23:17 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
There's all kinds of there's so much to try out there.

23:20 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Oh yeah, that's half the fun of it, right, try them all they're like pokemon, gotta try them all just trying to think is with my uh integrated uh uh video card, uh on my system, if it would uh, if it's capable of running open gl 3.3 yeah, should be, it should be, you've be.

23:42 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You've got a Ryzen AMD GPU built into that, a Ryzen CPU with their GPU core built into it, so yeah, it should be pretty up-to-date with all of that. Now it might not do it super fast, especially if you try to do something like ray tracing, but it can do it. I mean, that's what they put in the Steam DAGs, essentially that same kind of processor.

24:07 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I have to try that out then I doubt that old Lenovo laptop with the Intel integrated.

24:16 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
No, probably not, Probably not. Speaking of trying things out, though, ken, I hear that there is an update to Pipewire.

24:23 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
What's going on there? Yes, in fact we can thank Bobby Barsoff for writing about the first bug fix update to Pipewire. We just had a version 1.4 come out. Was it a little over two weeks ago now? It's not long yet, and now we're getting version 1.4.1. Now this update introduces backward compatibility for systems without the USB MIDI protocol or UMP support, thus restoring MIDI functionality on older kernels and ALSA versions. Now Pipewire version 1.4.1 also fixes some problems with disappearing devices by handling split PCM wrong channel specifications. It also adds an error string to the device names when the UCM configuration has an error feels. Pipewire 1.4.1 brings in a range of quality of life improvements and compilation fixes, including resolving a crashing issue in the Bluetooth module that occurs when receiving an incoming call.

25:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Now you can read Bobby's article that I've got linked in the show notes for more details, since I'm just touching on some that I thought were worth touching on yeah, I'm trying to figure out what exactly split pcm is and it looks like that is, when you have one port, that can be an input and an output seems to be the case in my in my initial googling of the thing.

26:04 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Googling up the thing, because when I was looking into the article, let me just find the changelog again.

26:19 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It said something about split PCM and devices disappearing.

26:24 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It mentioned the split PCM twice.

26:33 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, that's not a term. Kind of surprisingly, it's not a term I was familiar with before this, so I'm going to have to go. I may have devices that have that, but I'm not real familiar with what exactly it is. Split PCM, split PCM. Yes, google is not super useful, which is weird. Usually, with computer terms, google is really snappy and really good at telling you what it is Google hasn't been good for years.

27:03 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Changelog. One of the highlights talks about handling split PCM wrong channel specification and that it fixes some problems with disappearing devices. Then it goes down under the SPA where it says handle split PCM too few or too many channels. So it sounds like it's talking like when you've got a 5.1 or 7.1 PCM channels.

27:28 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
That could be. Here's what AI is telling me. Split PCM refers to the process of dividing a pulse code manipulation audio file into multiple segments or channels. This can be useful for various audio editing tasks, such as isolating individual tracks, creating separate audio files or enhancing specific parts of a recording. For example, tools like Descript allow you to split PCM audio files into separate tracks, making it easier for audio engineers and podcasters to edit and refine their content. Similarly, you can use software like FFmpeg to split a PCM stream with multiple channels into individual mono or stereo streams.

28:14 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And I can see where Pipewire would use that, possibly to map the different channels to the different channels on a 5.1 or 7.1 system.

28:24 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, it sounds like that's very much what it's about, all right. Well, good thing that that doesn't crash or cause problems anymore. There is a new tough guy in the CPU world, and this kind of caught me by surprise this week. Actually, it is the new AMD 9950 3DX. And so this is. This is AMD's top level CPU with the 3D V cache stacked, in this case, underneath the chip rather than on top of it. So we've talked about these chips before. They are generally great for gaming. So we've talked about these chips before. They are generally great for gaming. And this is not the only 3D V-Cache chip. It's not the only X3D chip that AMD has in this current generation. This is the tip of the top of them, and I've got links off to the Linus Tech Tips video about it. It's not on the main channel, it's on Tech Quickie, so it's text tips video about it. Uh, on a, it's not on the main channel, it's on like tech quickie, so it's it's a shorter video about it. Uh, really interesting shows some of the windows stuff.

29:30
Talks about the chip itself, but we've got a couple of pharonix articles here about what it does on linux and I was I was really really quite impressed? Um, it is so. The second article I've got linked here is his initial review of it and as you go through and punch through the different uh tests he ran, this thing is basically on top out of all of the chips that he has access to, and if it's not on top out of all of the chips that he has access to and if it's not on top everything. But like one program he tested, it is tied as a dead heat on top In some cases against the non-X3D version, the 9950X in some cases, versus one of Intel's chips that trades blows with it. The Core Ultra 9 285K is another one of those really impressive chips, but if you need multi-threaded or single-threaded, it looks like performance. This thing is pretty crazy for almost all use cases.

30:39
One of the disadvantages that these have had in the past is because they stacked the extra cache on top of the chip. It made cooling a problem, and the fact that they figured out a way to put it on the bottom side means that you can now cool these things very, very effectively and that's no longer a problem. And then the other article is that they've already pushed out a bit of an optimization for the Linux kernel, specifying sort of what bits are supposed to go into the cache, and that is really a black magic sort of thing. So if you look through the results on that, you have some of these that it's a huge win, like in Python, the Pi performance benchmark, it's like a 33% improvement. It goes from 668 milliseconds down to 444. So you know almost exactly two thirds the time taken, which is huge.

31:38
But then you have some of these where it is actually it performs worse than the stock configuration. So it's, it's very much. It's one of these things where you know you have to test it, see what, how it's going to perform on your particular workload, whether it makes sense to go and turn this on or not on this particular chip. But the uh, the 9950x 3d just in general is pretty impressive for, for you know, 16 cores and getting a whole lot of performance out of those cores, um, and the overall price, I believe, was six, 69, six, 99. I don't, this is this is the sort of thing I should have put in my notes, um, but it is, uh, it's, it's pretty impressive.

32:25 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, uh, that'd be pretty awesome, but uh, that's uh half the price of my last computer. So that's true. That means that you can spend.

32:31 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You can's half the price of my last computer, that's true. That means you can spend a whole lot of money on building a computer if you want to put one of those in it, but at the same time you can go spend over $1,000 for computer components pretty easily.

32:40 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
So it's not that terrible $600 for the CPU, $1,000 for the GPU. Well, if I get the new one, I can spend $3,000, I think these days on the 50, 5090 or whatever, If you can find them in stock.

33:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Well, you got to go with the Skelpers.

33:01 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Otherwise it'd be a lot cheaper $699.

33:05 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
The MSRP is $699.

33:15
And it would be just out-of-the-box replacement for the AMD Ryzen 7. I have right, possibly You'd have to check the socket. You'd have to check the socket and you'd also want to check for probably a BIOS update on your motherboard to be able to support the newer chip, because AMD has done a socket rev. I think your machine is new enough that it's going to be on the same socket, but I would. I would definitely be looking into bios updates first. Uh, it's. It's a particularly fun thing when you buy a motherboard and you buy the latest cpu and you put it in there and the motherboard goes. I don don't know what to do with this. Man. I don't have new enough BIOS for this. Amd was. There was actually a time where AMD was shipping people like their bottom end previous generation CPU just to drop in motherboards to be able to flash them newest BIOS. And then you know it's like please ship that back to us. It's only worth 20 bucks, but we would still like it back.

34:10 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I would check the socket first. If it's not going to fit. It doesn't matter if the BIOS works or not, but if the socket fits, eventually you'll probably get an update to the BIOS. Very likely, if not already Very likely.

34:25 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Probably need to check and see if there's updates to the BIOS anyways.

34:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, you know, it used to be the case that we would say, if it's working, don't update the BIOS. But that's not really the case anymore and unfortunately we do not have a Flopd story for you.

34:41 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
If there's been firmware updates to the chip, you may want to update the BIOS.

34:46 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah.

34:47 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Using Flopd.

34:48 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That's one way to do it, definitely one way to do it All. Yeah, using flop D. That's one way to do it, definitely one way to do it All. Right, let's see, rob, what's new. We're going to do some Windows stuff. What's new in Crossover, rob?

35:01 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I mean, this is Windows stuff, but I'm not the, I'll just get into it. So Crossover 25 from CodeWeavers is out today and I'm proud to say that Jeff is a happy supporter of them. Jeff is the one supporting these Windows initiatives, not me.

35:24 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
So we know we're the real person, so they can run Windows on Linux.

35:29 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, not Windows, but Windows apps on Linux. He uses VirtualBox to run Windows on Linux for his accounting software once a year, so he's probably getting around to that if he hasn't done it yet. But Crossover? So what Crossover is? It's essentially the commercial version of Wine Buying that helps pay for the development and and what this. It sees some of the the best improvements. Well, I'd say first, but sometimes only because crossover 25 is built on top of wine. In this case, it's built on top of wine 10.

36:08
To run Windows games and apps on Linux and Mac OS, and being one of the few ways To run newer versions of Microsoft Office and Office 365. On Linux. So I hear Jeff would be the expert on this. Okay, I joke. Actually, he supports them. He says it quite often. He isn't actually a current user, but he thinks it's a good product to support, which so do I. Anyway, this release brings more than 5,000 changes with this big upgrade that it also pulls in BKD3D 1.14,. It also pulls in VKD3D 1.14, molten VK 1.2.10, wine Mono 9.4, and other updates.

37:03
So, yeah, you know, if you're talking about games, most Linux gamers do quite well with Proton, but for you shameful macOS users out there, crossover is now more seamless, with more settings and enhancements, and it includes DXMT as a metal-based implementation of Direct3D11 on macOS. So there's something for you guys too. I mean macOS. You're a Unix-y like too, you're okay, okay, kind of. So highlights highlights for for uh games in this. You know, maybe you don't want to use steam or maybe you got the game somewhere else, who knows? But there are some highlights, and some of these new games that it supports is avowed far cry 6, teardown, uh, fallout 76, need for speed, heat, the last of us, part one, and red dead redemption 2, which that's. That's a good game I haven't played in years, but I like that game so good to hear there's another way to play Linux now. So, anyway, even if you don't need extra features from Crossover, like Jeff says, it is still a good company to support for their roles in Wine and Proton. So we should all strive to be more like Jeff, except for the fact that Jeff isn't here today, but we'll forgive him for that.

38:34
Oh, and one other cool tidbit the corporate office for CodeWeavers. It's less than an hour away from me, it's like 80 miles away, I think it is, which I know for you people overseas, and like the little country of the UK. That's like all the way across the country but that's like just down the street for us in the us. So anyway, if you're, if you're looking for someone to hire, I'm not too far away. But uh, I like the product I've. I've used it a long time ago and I don't know. I really been meaning to try it again and to support him, but uh, I am.

39:13 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I'm reminded of doc searle's take on this on one of the great differences between the united states and other countries, particularly in europe. Uh, we think a hundred year old, 100 years old is old, and they think 100 miles or 100 kilometers is far. We sort of laugh at each other over that. They think a hundred miles or a hundred kilometers as far. We sort of laugh at each other over that. All right, I I'm going to actually jump in unless, unless Ken wanted to talk about crossover.

39:40 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I'm going to jump in after he's done with another Windows-ish story. Since I do use Steam, I did want to note that this should help speed up the startup time of Steam for me.

39:49 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Hmm, uh, cross I no. Steam doesn't use a crossover though.

39:56 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, they do Really. They help provide inputs to the Proton.

40:02 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Well, they provide inputs, but it's not directly utilized.

40:06 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Sometimes it is.

40:08 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Some of the features are, but it's not the whole code base. They use features that they've learned from that, but the whole code base from the crossover doesn't go over.

40:19 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Well, one of your articles, even the one by Saruv Rudra that's what he says that it actually will help to give Steam a faster startup time.

40:36 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Well, maybe I imagine that code will eventually make it. If it's not there, I mean, who knows, it may land in Proton first, but if not, it'll eventually land there. Right? Like they're not going to just sit on this patch.

40:50 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
The game, stuff, stuff. Maybe it will, but I mean from historically, like the last thing I've heard I haven't looked into this, but like crossover has supported a fairly recent version of office for quite a few years now, but with with wine at least, maybe proton, but i't think Proton's going to focus on this. With the regular wine you still cannot do. It's still quite a ways behind where the crossover was several years ago. Last I've heard.

41:24 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That's probably true. You know, wine really doesn't like pulling in single application fixes. They want everything to be more standardized and homogenized. Yeah, that's one way to put it, Whereas crossover they're all about getting individual applications like Office to work. So it kind of makes sense. That's the bread and butter.

41:46 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
So I mean very well, maybe the game pieces of this will travel over to Proton, which it probably makes sense because Valve actually pays Code Weavers for Proton stuff, so it's all the same people there. It makes sense for them to bring that to it, but whereas, like the application stuff, well, nobody's paying them except for the crossover users um, well, nobody's paying them, except for the crossover users.

42:16 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Now, how does a crossover do with the windows?

42:18 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
audio stack much better than react os does. So I've got I've got a couple of stories here that are also about wine, not on linux, but via free and open source software. So one of the things that I've followed for a long time now is React OS, and that is the project to reimplement the Windows NT kernel as an open source project. It has been interesting for a long time. It's been only reasonably useful, and only recently has that really become a thing. But they have announced a sort of a major step forwards in what React OS can do. React OS can now boot and bring up the Windows audio stack, but it can't actually play any sound yet. This is sort of where we're at with react os, like it's got. It's got lots of, lots of cool support, lots of things sort of stubbed out, but, um, there are some, there are some outstanding bugs and there's not any actual sound that it can produce yet.

43:24 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
so that sounds like when uh rust first came to the linux kernel, like the very first one. It's like well, we got Rust in there, it doesn't do anything yet.

43:32 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It doesn't do anything yet. Yup, so that is React OS. And then there is another alternative to React OS that I came across this week and it is $3.95. But it's the most minimal possible uh project at this point, and if you see the screenshots, it it's. It looks ugly, looks nothing like what windows 95 looks like.

44:04 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
um and wait, you just contradicted yourself.

44:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I mean, windows 95 is pretty ugly they can both be ugly and in different ways it makes me think more of dos instead of windows 95 it does look a lot like an old dos gui um now here's the big test does it run doom yet? Uh, we are pretty sure the answer is no not yet.

44:29 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
It looks a lot like well, I was gonna say like windows 3.1, but no, it's. I guess it's dos, wow.

44:37 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
So it makes me think of uh creating menus on dos this.

44:42 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
This is, this is interesting. Um, they're they have, they do have some source right and they and it's out there enough that you can run it. It actually does something, but it's still pretty minimal. This seems to me like this is probably something that's going to take quite a while to really hit its own. It's already up to a 2.0 alpha and again it can actually do something like that is something, but, um, I don't, I don't know, I don't know this is really going to be as, let me put it this way, at this point this is less useful than react os. There you go, rob's got it up. That's what it looks like. Rob's got it up.

45:31 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
That's what it looks like, freeber. Yeah, and that's what it looks like when all the programs are closed on the desktop. Hmm, how do you open them again? There's nothing there.

45:44 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
From the command line, of course. Yeah, use command line, who knows? So anyway, I found it fascinating that these are sort of our two alternatives to uh, to wine, for running windows stuff without windows I just wondered uh, are either one of these 32-bit? I would imagine that free 95 is maybe both of them might run on the old dell system.

46:11 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I've got sitting in a closet it might, you could try it.

46:15 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
You could try it how old is?

46:17 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
react to us? I, I swear there was something. Oh, it's been in development since 96 it's at least 10 years old 96 96, that's like almost 30 years old.

46:29 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Okay.

46:30 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, I remember something like this a good 20, 25 years ago.

46:36 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It might have been this it may have been React OS, yes, which you know to be fair. Back then, this is what React OS looked like. Right, it was about like this, and they've just had a long time to work on it. Of course, Windows has continued to change in that time, which is one of the reasons why it's continuing to be a moving target.

46:56 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Yeah, it still looks like, at least the last time I looked at it. It's more like the Windows 98, I think style, or maybe classic Windows has finally stopped supporting 8-bit.

47:09 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Oh, that happened a long time ago, yeah.

47:12 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Did they stop supporting 16-bit? I think so.

47:15 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
When they went to 64-bit installs by default for all of Windows, that's when 16. Because it couldn't go back to architecture versions. So, you had to run Windows 32-bit to be able to run the old 16-bit stuff.

47:30 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Was that with uh, windows 7 or windows 10 that they started doing the 64-bit by default?

47:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I don't. I think maybe 7, I don't remember for sure I think it was windows 10 that could be, I don't remember for sure one of the other, we'll have to ask jeff yeah, he'll know. I don't know, man man ReactOS. I'm looking at screenshots. It doesn't look too terrible. I wouldn't mind using that.

47:55 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I've played with it before it's, I mean it works.

48:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
But what editor would you?

48:01 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
use on it.

48:02 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Oh, I don't know. I mean you could have a lot of fun and do something like pull ClarisWorks out or one of those old time period appropriate editors from the 90s, but I can give you one that definitely would not work on it.

48:14 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
What's that Zed editor.

48:17 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
No, probably wouldn't. Zed is one of those up-and-comers. They've got something pretty new coming out, don't they?

48:24 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, they do. We actually first covered this Rust-based code editor back in episode 160. So if y'all want to see when we originally talked about it, go back to that and watch it when it officially launched for Linux and I've been using it off and on since then. This week Michael Larabelle wrote about another update to the Zed editor. Zed has now added native Git integration for enhancing the developer experience, starting with Zed version 0.177. You can view your diff, stage changes and commit as well as push, from within the editor. According to the Zeddev blog post, they built Git integration with three priorities. First was speed. Using Git from within Z should feel faster than using the command line. Jonathan, I suspect you may disagree with that one. Then you've got Git native. Then you've got Git Native. The bloggers say they're not reinventing the wheel, just giving you first-class access to the Git features you already know, and they're wanting to put the keyboard first, meaning you're limited by the speed of your fingers, not your elbows.

49:49
Now you can find links to michael's article, as well as to zed's blog post and renice notes in our show notes, and I did want to give you a quick look at what it looks like when you have the uh get uh panel open. So let me switch to my display real quick.

50:15 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
So keyboard first. Is this like Vi or Vim, where you're going to get stuck in it because you don't know the right keyboard commands?

50:23 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, it does Really.

50:26 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Stuck in Zed, really Stuck in Zed and I'm just going to get it up here.

50:50 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
But it's interesting because right now mine's got an initialized repository, because I don't have a Git repository attached to the Zed.

50:56 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It's like Zed is becoming more of an IDE than just a text editor, which is interesting.

51:02 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yes, it is, and let's try this for a minute.

51:11 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I was doing some reading and apparently you can install different kernels, not like OS kernels, but code execution kernels, to be able to run things like Python and HTML and all of those from right inside of Zed, which in and of itself is pretty interesting. Php Can interesting.

51:30 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
PHP. Can I run PHP? Probably.

51:33 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I don't know. I bet we could find out. Can you run PHP? Zed supports running code in multiple languages, so you get started. You install a kernel for the language. Currently supported languages are Python. Wait, there's more to that TypeScript R as in Ark, r as in zeus, julia and scala. So no, no php, no php. Love for you, man. Let's go to the next story I'm not interested yet I.

52:06
I do have one more, actually a kind of a set of stories to cover, um, and then, ken, I know you're working on getting that pulled up. If you manage to do it by the time I get done, then we can take a look at what it actually looks like.

52:19 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And I can use it for when I do my command line tip.

52:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
There you go. So I wanted to talk real quick about a couple of interesting things in Plasma. So they are working on this is the Pointed Stick blog by Nate Graham. They're working on 6.4.0. And there's a couple of things that really caught my eye in here, one of which is there's now, when you're copying files from one place to another, you can click on that notification and you now get a graph, like you know, another operating system that we all know, um, but it's kind of, it's kind of fun to see that land in uh in kitty and it looks great. Um, you know. There's some other things like disabling system tray icons provided by apps. Um, there's a sidebar style. Ui elements now will overlap panels when shown outside of edit mode. So that's like you've got a thing on the side and a thing on the bottom, which one is supposed to be on top. It's a little bit smarter about that. K runner is actually going to put your favorite actions at the top as opposed to just interspersed. Some fun things like that Bug fixes. Plasma 6.4 is going to be cool. I think that's going to be the first one that is going to release after the HDR spec got 100% nailed down inside of Wayland. So 6.3 has support for it, but 6.4 is going to use the correct terminology and all of that. That's sort of what's going on on the back end there.

53:50
But the other thing that I saw from Nate was that he started a company and this really intrigued me. He is announcing Tech Paladin Software. So Nate and I believe several other people were working at Blue Systems GMBH as KDE developers and just as the passage of time, as things change, they sort of came to the conclusion that it's time to do something different. Based on what I've seen, it was a friendly separation of ways. Know, a friendly, just a separation of ways. But Nate and a friend of his, a former developer, david Edmondson, is now running Tech Paladin Software and it is going to be sort of the new place for KDE support.

54:45
And there's a question here basically, does this mean that you can fix this awful bug that I'm experiencing? And he says why? Yes, as a matter of fact, if you would like to sponsor a bug fix or a new feature or custom development work, do get in touch. And then they've got the link off to techpaladinsoftwarecom and an email address there. So this is actually pretty interesting If there was something that really bugged you about KDE and you say more than just I want to make a bug report about this. You wanted to say I want to pay somebody to fix this. There you go, there is somebody that is a KDE expert that you can pay to fix it. And it's always good, in my opinion, to see these kind of companies form behind open source projects, because generally it's the people that already love the project that do it, and it's just a way for them to actually turn into a business and make some money at it, rather than just always doing it in their spare time.

55:41 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
So I, uh, I approve very good and best of luck to them it makes me question, though why don't uh like these projects do a lot of that stuff themselves? Why didn't KDE just do that themselves or other ones?

55:58 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
KDE and Firefox and a lot of these. They're actually nonprofits. Oh well, and you can do some of it nonprofit. But from what I understand, in most countries writing computer code is not considered a nonprofit action. So there's just sort of a disconnect between the idea of doing it as a nonprofit and paying engineers to do the work, to write the code. It's a weird little wrinkle in tax law, more or less.

56:30 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
It's a weird little wrinkle in tax law, more or less. I wonder if they somehow could just even if they didn't take that money, if it just went directly a path through directly to developers if there's some way they could get around that, just to help improve their code base. Yeah, I mean it's possible. Maybe not.

56:47 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It may also be that Nate and the other guys don't really want to work for the larger KDE organization.

56:53 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
They want to be able to work for themselves and you know that's fine too, and maybe launch a cryptocurrency of their own.

57:00 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
That very rarely works out well. In fact, I know of one open source project that did that, that seems to be working out for them, that did that, that seems to be working out for them, and for that one there's about 500 or maybe 1,000 that it did not go well, no, yeah.

57:20 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Either way, if these projects can't do it because of just how they're set up or don't want to because of the various things you mentioned, this at the very least brings up a great business idea that others could emulate for other projects.

57:40 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, sure, I've talked with a couple of projects about things like this. And there is this business model coming out of particularly places like europe where they're adding uh, they're adding regulation that says you know, you've got to have your software bill of materials, you, you're not allowed to ship software that has known cves in it, you've got to have, you know, this kind of um, you got to be able to attest to this thing about all of your software. It's like these big companies, they're using open source projects and they'll come to the open source projects and hey, we, we need you to fill out this paperwork for us. We need you to attest to this, and I've said this for years, but it's kind of getting picked up on in other places and that is sure, we will be glad to do that. Here's our hourly rate. We will be glad to contract ourselves and you can support the project and we'll do that for you. That is absolutely the correct answer.

58:27 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
So just to play devil's advocate? Absolutely the correct answer. So just to play devil's advocate? Uh, I don't foresee this happening. But you know what, if too many people got this idea and like, well, I don't want to give myself freely and help this, uh, open source projects, I want, I want to you guys to pay me and then I will help this open source project I think there's kind of a self-limiting factor on how well that's ever going to work.

58:56 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
If too many people do it, they'll just start killing projects and then you'll kind of learn that that's maybe not what you want to do.

59:04 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Or it may turn be advantageous, because then the person that needs that bug fixed can ask for proposals on how much they need to pay. And then they'll get what they pay for.

59:22 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Those corporations using that and aren't supporting the project will have to in a way. I mean not directly to the project but to somebody who's doing the coding for the project and that improves the project.

59:34 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, that is the idea.

59:37 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And the bug fix gets pushed forward into the project to fix that bug.

59:42 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
And, ideally, the developers get paid. Everybody's happy. That's the way it's supposed to work. All right, Ken, did you have that Zed editor pulled up and ready to go? Yeah?

59:53 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
there we go.

59:53 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Let's take a look at that.

59:56 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
It's green. And you can see my mouse. But over here this is the Git panel that you can pull up from down here and right now, you see it says I have no Git repositories, because I was just playing with today. But I can initialize a repository. But I want to look into the documentation first before I do that.

01:00:22 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Understood. It reminds me a lot of VS Code, actually the way VS Code is set up, with putting the panel over there and being able to pull up from the bottom and all that.

01:00:30 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
Yeah, you've got a project panel you can pull up and you can see. I've got it set up for managing my configuration files for Pipewire at the moment. And you've got an outline panel. You've even got a collaboration panel, so if I wanted to collaborate with anybody on the configuration files or any other projects I might work on, I could do that. And of course, I can use it to sign in up here. And it's got the Git option for pulling up the GitHub Go pilot once you're logged into GitHub. Oh, interesting, as well as pulling up a terminal panel.

01:01:17 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Definitely something they need. What good is an editor without being able to get a terminal inside of it, right, ah Right.

01:01:23 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I remember you demoed this some time ago now.

01:01:26 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And I remember you showed us all the different colors Back July of last year.

01:01:29 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
Oh wow, almost a year. I remember you showing us all the different theme colors. You could do well not all of them, because there was a lot, but yeah, bunch of them.

01:01:38 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, oh, all right, very cool, uh. So that is our news for the week, a little bit shorter. We had a bunch of short stories today, but that's okay. Uh, let's get into some command line tips.

01:01:49 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
I think rob has got us first I do and I am continuing on with a series that I started last time I was on the show, and the series I am following up on is more utils, which is an extension of core utils, and some of these, uh, in here in the more utils we have gone over, so I'll just be skipping those when I get to them. But one that we haven't that I'm going to go over today is if utils, that's IF, sorry, if data I mean, which is I-F-D-A-T-A, so if data is like the IF command for networking, ifconfig command or I guess IP is now the new command. But what this does is it pulls all the same stuff but it could pull individual stuff, individual pieces, out. So a good way for, like, if you're scripting or using in a program and you want to just know what your IP is, you could run IP and grep it and pull all that data out. But with this you don't need to do all that grepping and everything. So if you just type I have data. It's going to show you all the different flags Dash E to report the existence of the interface. Dash to show you all the different flags. Dash E to report the existence of the interface. Dash P to print out the whole config Dash P, to print yes or no, if it's in existence, p A, print out the address, p N, net mask, p, capital N, the network address and some of this is in more networking terms.

01:03:42
If you don't know what a broadcast or network address is, you kind of have to understand some networking along with MPU and things like that. And way at the bottom there's a BIPs so you can see incoming bytes per second or BOPs for outgoing bytes per second. So for those watching, I'm just going to run through a few of these here. So for starters, if I did, I have data space, dash P. Actually I want to make sure I know my interface. So dash P space, and then your interface, which is mine, is ENS, so that's going to just show everything. It's going to show the ip, the, the net mask, the broadcast, the mtu, uh. So you can also, if you want to just just see what the address is, dash pa, and it's just going to show the ip address.

01:04:39
Uh, you know, obviously, if I do the others, it's just going to show the IP address. You know, obviously, if I do the others, it's just going to show the others out. It's going to show the individual items from there. Now, if I do PF, that's print flags it's going to show all the flags of that interface broadcastreg and loopback. Another one if I do so, like I said, the bips, b, I, p, s and then the interface. It's going to go and it's 776 incoming bytes per second, or I could change that to bops and see how many this is outgoing. Well, I got nothing outgoing this time Bips and bops, bips and bops 42 if I do that again. So yeah, I'm not going to go through all of those, but those are kind of the key ones. So you can use that to quickly have a script. You want to quickly grab what your IP address is and do something with it.

01:05:37 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
So that's the IF data command from more utils yeah, that's actually pretty important because there's some of the other um interface, some of the other commands, that if you put them in a script it'll say something like warning the output of this is not stable, and it's essentially. It's essentially telling you we may change the way this spits information out and not warn you about it. So it it's pretty useful that IFData has that as an option. I thought about doing ftool as my command line tip and it gives you some of those same bits of information, but it turns out we've already covered that one, so I did not. I did not double cover it. We're actually going to let Ken go next. What is your command line tip, ken?

01:06:19 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
We're actually going to let Ken go next. What is your command line tip, Ken? Well, my command line tip is pwprofiler, which is another one of the pipewire commands. It is used to profile your current pipewire configuration. And let me go ahead and bring up the screen and, as you can see, of course it's got the dash H and dash versions so you can display the help screen. For those of you all listening, I've actually got that help screen displayed.

01:06:53
You can find a link to the screenshots I took in the show notes. And then you've also got the dash dash version for seeing that the PW profiler that I'm using was compiled with libpipewire 1.2.4. So, yeah, I'm a bit behind. It's Ubuntu Studio 2410. Maybe by 2510. But you've also got the other obligatory dash R to provide a remote daemon name. Now, with profile, it's got a dash O that allows you to indicate the profiler log's name, since the default is profilerlog. If you're wanting to set a baseline and then do a comparison after making some changes, you may find it easier to change that to like, say, a baseline. And then, for example, for demonstration purposes, I profiled my system with no external audio devices. In other words, I disconnected this mic, disconnected the webcam, since it's got a built-in mic and also made sure that my USB connection for my vinyl record player was not hooked up and RAND. Let me switch to the next screenshot here.

01:08:29 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
Yeah, I'm curious what the output on this looks like.

01:08:32 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
But on the command line what you'll see, with me running pw-profiler space dash o, space 2025 dash 03, dash 14, dash 0150 dot log. Guess what time I ran that at Jonathan.

01:08:57
It started off by saying logging to that file, then attaching to profiler ID 5, then logging driver 49. For those of y'all listening, I'm not going to read the full line. For the next ones I'm just going to continue by saying logging follower 90, log follower 80, and logging follower 174. The only one of those that I actually know what it's connected to is 90. That's the VLC media player that I had playing back a multimedia file for test purposes and as you're reading on down, it shows that it was logging 10,857 samples for 230 seconds and it gives you the CPU three ratings, I'm going to assume one was low, high and then the median. And then it came up saying dumping scripts for three followers. And then it tells you to run and here it's got it in single quotes sh space, generate timings dot sh and load timingshtml into a browser. So I ran that and then I did a listing of the directory that I was in at the time. I ran it. For those of you all listening, it does include the log file I created. It also includes five plot dot plot files timing1.plot through timing5.plot, and you'll see also when you look at the screenshot that it's got timing1.svg through timing5.svg as well as a timingshtml, I'm going to exit out of the displayer and since I'm online here, I'm going to switch to Google and put it in full screen mode, make it easier for everybody to see. But I did screen copy this, by the way, so you can look at it later if you want to.

01:11:33
It's just not going to be an HTML file to pull up, but it starts off with the first graph from the timings. One is for audio driver timing. The graph is set up so it's got microseconds running up the left side, audio cycles Think frequency, for that it would be the easiest way to think of it and with the graph it's got a lot of squiggles right around the 21,370. Look, that's what I'm going to ballpark it at, going all the way up to 1,100 cycles to 1100 cycles. It's got a legend in the top right of that graph for audio driver delay, audio period and audio estimated, each color coded and it looks like most of it's for the audio period, and a lot of flips going all the way around there jumping around the audio cycle.

01:12:46 - Leo (Announcement)
Jumping around.

01:12:49 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
The next one is for driver end date and that also has the same X and Y axis for microseconds and audio cycles. This time it's only got, according to the legend, one bit of data that it's plotting and it would look like if you've ever used Audacity with the spectrum, like that spectrum when it's all in one color With spikes. The next one is for clients in date and here it's actually got four different bits of data that it's plotting, one for audio period, one of us for the VLC media player and then for the other two followers that were mentioned on the command line, but the one that's only shown is the audio period. Well, no, take that back. Vlc shown all the way at the very bottom. So for the microseconds it's only at the zero microseconds but it does go all the way up to the 11,000 audio cycles. Audio cycles Now.

01:14:20
The interesting one that I thought was the client scheduling latency, because during the test, since my basic configuration for the internal audio devices still allows me to switch the audio between my headset and the audio going over HDMI to my Sanyo TV, I started off for the first three and a half minutes having the audio going to my headset over a five-minute period. This is out of a five-minute period. Then, about the three and a half minute mark, I switched it to the Sanyo TV's audio output and let it run for the remaining minute and a half and of course, at the five minute mark I just press control C to just end the profiling. But what's interesting on this client scheduling latency is that at about I'd call that 9,000 seconds. Would you agree, jonathan? Something like that? Yeah, or 9,000 audio cycles. It's showing that the other two blips. So I'm wondering if that's showing. When I switched the audio output so that it was going from the VLC media player to the TV instead of to the headset and you've got the client's duration, it's showing this similarly.

01:16:05 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
I could see this being super useful when you've got, when you're messing around with Pipewire and you've got a problem, like suddenly you know you do something and your audio starts getting all crackly and then you want to try to figure out like, okay, which application caused this, which driver caused this, which hardware device looks like that's the. That's the kind of information that you would need to really try to dive in and troubleshoot some of those things or at least get, uh, you know, pointed in the right place for where to look, so very neat. Uh, unfortunately, the internet does not have much information on how to actually interpret those graphs.

01:16:43
I did a little bit of googling so you're sort of on your own trying to figure out what that means. I I imagine that you could go to if you had a problem that you were trying to work through. You could go to the actual pipe wire uh git lab and talk to them there, and they have, in my experience, been pretty helpful in trying to help people figure stuff out. Did you try asking AI? I did.

01:17:05 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
And it told me something about password managers.

01:17:07 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
It thought PW Profiler was a password manager, so that didn't really help much. The AI is not very helpful here. All right, I've got a real quick command line tip. It is EXCH which stands for exchange, and this one is for that once in a while case where you've got two files and you just need to swap them. You've got maybe one that's the backup, maybe one is the A file and the other is the B file. You made some configuration changes. You want to save both of them. You just want to swap the names of the two files.

01:17:40
So EXCH, it does an atomic exchange. That's actually fairly important, depending on what you're doing. So the exchange happens all at once, all in the same atomic action. So they both disappear, reappear. It all happens at the same time. There's no splitting the difference. Your application is not going to find a time where the file doesn't exist, that sort of thing. It is an atomic action and it's just EXCH, the old path, the new path, and it'll swap them back and forth. So again, very simple, but also a very specific thing that you may want to do, I would think, particularly with like a log file or configuration files. That could be useful. So that was mine Nice and quick and simple. All right, appreciate you guys being here. I will let each of you plug whatever you want to Ken. I know you've got an ending note here that you wanted to touch on. What's that about? Ken muted himself or he broke his pipe wire setup by messing with it too much? Nope?

01:18:44 - Ken McDonald (Co-host)
I forgot to unmute, but it's an article by Dalen Grimm. He wrote about the next generation of networking and storage hitting the trade shows. So follow that link and see what he's talking about and why. Uh, 27 gigabyte speeds may be of interest, or gigabytes per second speeds pcie 6.0.

01:19:14 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
goodness, fun stuff. I remember when 5.0 came out, all right and Rob.

01:19:21 - Rob Campbell (Co-host)
All right, you guys can. If you want to connect with me on the social medias, or check out my webpage and just see what I got going on there, you can come find me at robertpcampbellcom. On that page, at the top, in the little grayish circled rectangle, you'll see links to my linkedin, my twitter, my blue sky mastodon and a place to donate me coffee and five dollar increments very cool.

01:19:58 - Jonathan Bennett (Host)
All right, you can't appreciate you guys both being here. You can find my stuff over at hackaday. That's where most of my other stuff is. That's where floss weekly is at. That's where the friday security column goes live every friday morning. We have a lot of fun with that and we'd love for everybody to go check it out. Uh, other than that, you should really think about supporting twit with club twit. Um, it is not much more than the price of a cup of coffee per month and it is some money well spent to help support us and the network, and we appreciate that. We will be back next week with another entry in the untitled linux show with, I'm sure, all kinds of other interesting news and analysis and command line tips to talk about. Appreciate, we appreciate everybody that gets us live and on the download and we will see you then.