Tech News Weekly Episode 228 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show. 

Ant Pruitt (00:00):
Hey today on Tech News Weekly. No, I am not Mikah Sargent, I am Ant Pruitt and I'm sitting here with Mr. Jason, Howell and we're gonna talk about the NFL. Yes. The NFL on Tech News Weekly but we're also going to get into some other stories like, Hey, what's going on with whys and why do they wait so long to let us know about a particular vulnerability and of their products? And also, what about virtual kidnapping? You ever heard of that? It's pretty, it's pretty scary stuff. And I got a feeling that's gonna be around for a while. That's coming up. Next

... (00:35):
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is TWiT.

Jason Howell (00:55):
This is Tech News Weekly episode 228 recorded Thursday, March 31st, 2022. This episode of Tech News Weekly is brought to you by net Foundry. Make the security of your network entirely irrelevant by isolating your applications and data with open source embedded zero trust. Grab your free swag and free tier. Now by going to net foundry.io/twi

Ant Pruitt (01:19):
And by Nureva traditional audio com systems can entail. Lots of components. Installation can take days and you might not get the mic coverage you need. That's comp expensive, but Nurevaaudio is easy to install and manage no technicians required and you get true for room coverage. That's easy, economical, learn more@neva.com.

Jason Howell (01:42):
Hello. Welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show where we talk to people who are making and breaking the tech news. I'm one of your hosts, Jason Howell.

Ant Pruitt (01:50):
I am aunt Pruitt.

Jason Howell (01:52):
Yay. How's it going, aunt?

Ant Pruitt (01:54):
Unbelievable, sir. How you be?

Jason Howell (01:55):
I'm doing awesome. It's great to get the opportunity to do this show with you. You know, on one hand, it's a bummer that Mike is in here. On

Ant Pruitt (02:03):
The other hand, we don't miss it. It's

Jason Howell (02:04):
Also nice because I get the chance to do the show with you today. Yes. So I'm, I'm, Stok from looking forward to it.

Ant Pruitt (02:09):
So glad to be here in the studio with the live and in person

Jason Howell (02:12):
Mike is taking is it a vacation? I can't, I can't

Ant Pruitt (02:16):
Recall. I'm not believing that that

Jason Howell (02:18):
Takes him. Time's true. Really?

Ant Pruitt (02:20):
He's always working on something. So him and vacation. Yeah,

Jason Howell (02:24):
I'm fine. Yeah. That ven diagram doesn't really cross very much. We all deserve a little vacation here and there. Indeed. Why don't we start off with your story? You have a story to talk about, tell me

Ant Pruitt (02:35):
About it. Well, Mr. Howell, you know, I know this is TWI TV and what's all about tech, but look here, folks. I want to talk a little bit about football because that's what I love off. I love football. You, you you've heard of the NFL, the national football league and how big and awesome it is, but the NFL is a really big business. And right now they are in the, in the midst of trying to figure out what are they going to do with their particular content far as monetizing from the viewership, because everybody's not going to the games, of course, but in the past NFL has had a relationship with the folks hit direct TV, where they're they offered the NFL Sunday ticket.

Jason Howell (03:14):
Oh man, I had that Sunday, Sunday ticket for quite a few

Ant Pruitt (03:16):
Years. Right? And it, it is a great deal. You know, people can get that and, and watch games from all over the country. Not just wherever you're locked in geographically based on the, the broadcast standards that are in place. Well, that contract is getting ready to run out within next year. I believe it's 2023 when that contract is up and the NFL is trying to figure out what to do. So of course, you've had rumors just a couple of weeks ago of apple showing interest in the NFL and saying, Hey, let's let's talk NFL. We let's do some business together because apple has its streaming platform. And the NFL has already actively been streaming. In addition to what they do with this Sunday ticket, you had access for the, through Verizon and Yahoo. You had access on Amazon prime. If you were a prime member with their Thursday night games being specially there, or you just go to the nfl.com website and you can watch the Thursday night games there.

Ant Pruitt (04:10):
So they had all, a lot of different options in utilizing a lot of tech because Hey, upstream is just so much better nowadays. So you can show these games in beautiful high quality and keep all of your fans happy regardless of where they are. But now NFL is saying, okay, well, since we've been able to do this with all of these different partners, why don't we cut out some of these middle men and middle women, if you have, if you will, and say, let's make our own platform, why not have NFL plus? And I thought about that and said, you know, that would be smart for the NFL. Cuz they got all of the resources right there in house and they can offer this to anybody around the world, not just here in the us and deal with all of those different regulations and get more eyes on the already big sport, the NFL.

Jason Howell (05:00):
So is the idea with the NFL plus we're gonna put all our games onto this or is it kind of like the NFL channel or the NFL network rather right where it's like, oh NFL network, great. They're gonna have everything at no, they don't actually they have certain games and then they have a lot of like interviews and a lot of, you know, special content around football.

Ant Pruitt (05:19):
That's the thing I thought about this and said, you know, it's, it's, I hope this isn't just an extension of the website.

Jason Howell (05:24):
That's what I was.

Ant Pruitt (05:26):
I want more than that. And then I started to wonder, okay, what exactly would the cost be for this? Because if I'm going to pay, you know, $20 a month for this package, it better give me more than just some interviews with, with some former coaches and former players or us two games a week, it better allow me access to every dagum game on the schedule. If I want to, you know, cuz me I'm a person. I don't know if, if you TWI folks are familiar with this, but being a Carolinian growing up, I had the option to watch the Dallas football team and the Washington football team every now and then the Atlanta football team, because the Atlanta football team was horrible back then. So they didn't show on TV. They didn't show 'em on TV often. And that bugged me cuz I had no interest in any of those teams. And then the green bay Packers showed up one weekend on my screen and I was hooked, but I couldn't watch them every week because they're not in my region. Right,

Jason Howell (06:24):
Right.

Ant Pruitt (06:25):
I want to be able to latch onto whatever team I enjoy and watch them at any given Sunday whether I'm in the Carolinas or whether I'm here in Petaluma, California, you know?

Jason Howell (06:37):
Yeah. I mean, and yeah, and kind of along those lines, like when I remember when I had the Sunday ticket on direct TV, you know, this is when direct TV actually made sense for our family. Right. At a certain point we're like, all right, we're hardly watching 9% of the stuff here. So we let it go years ago. And before kids, we, we, we were really into football. And so we got the Sunday ticket and I remember it being really expensive. I just did a search and it's close to $300. Yeah. It was

Ant Pruitt (07:05):
Crazy.

Jason Howell (07:06):
It's $300 to get all access, which I mean kind of wrote that off as being just the cost of being a true football fan. Cause I wanted the access to everything and you don't normally get that. So $300 over the crew, worst of like whatever the season is four or five months. Yeah. Okay. Fine. 75 bucks a a month for the, for the constant access to everything, fantasy football, it made fantasy football, easy. It made

Ant Pruitt (07:29):
Fantasy, the football so much easier

Jason Howell (07:31):
And lot more enjoyable. It did.

Ant Pruitt (07:33):
And, and the thing is I, as a hardcore football fan, which I like to sort of call myself, I thought that was a bit steep to get that Sunday ticket. So when I did get the Sunday ticket, I ended up catching it on a promotional deal because $300 for that package for something that's not even yearly.

Jason Howell (07:51):
Yeah, exactly.

Ant Pruitt (07:52):
That's, that's, something's wrong there. Which, which made me think more into about this story. We're, we're paying subscription for fees for everything. Now you're paying for Amazon prime, you're paying for Netflix, you're paying for apple TV plus you're paying for how many Daum subscriptions do we have nowadays? And now we're gonna add one more. So what's, I'm wondering what's what's the cutoff going to be for us is the consumer and say, okay, that price is good enough for the NFL. And is this something that's of me content for the whole year? Not just the football season how does it set up against, you know, the likes of it, Showtime or paramount plus and things like that, cuz it it's, we're starting to have a bit of a subscription overload.

Jason Howell (08:34):
Yeah, for sure. It does give people the chance to pick and choose the things that actually really matter to them and you know, sports fans and maybe not just sports fans cuz there's ESPN plus as well. Right. But football fans like true, dedicated, devoted football fans, you know that they're gonna be very interested in this, you know, and probably prioritize it over other things. What I'm wondering is will the, like if this app will possibly serve all games and, and we don't have any indication, as far as that's concerned,

Ant Pruitt (09:04):
They they're real tight lip on everything right now.

Jason Howell (09:05):
But, but you have, but I have the guess that like that's kind of the direction or at least most games because you know, even with apple plus it's like you don't or sorry, not apple plus Disney plus you don't get access to every single Disney movie that's ever existed. Nope. But you get access to a ton of 'em

Ant Pruitt (09:20):
That's a

Jason Howell (09:20):
Lot of stuff and there's gotta be that value in an NFL plus streaming package. Right. So do they recoup like how do they recoup the cost if the cost before was close to, you know, $300, like break that down into a monthly fee. And I don't think people are gonna pay $75 for, for NFL plus streaming package

Ant Pruitt (09:39):
That true, isn't it?

Jason Howell (09:40):
Yeah. I mean, you know, we're, we're kind of getting more and more used to these, these prices being somewhere in the, the seven to 15 to maybe $20 a month. I mean maybe I don't even know if I have an example off the top of my head that's 20

Ant Pruitt (09:53):
Is gonna be pushing it. You, but

Jason Howell (09:55):
Else gonna have to price this. If it contains all that content in a way where they feel like it's, it's valuable to them. If they go that route though, I'm gonna be kind of happy because I, with any of these streaming pack streaming services I'm, I mean, we do have some streaming services that we are just subscribed to all the time, but like YouTube TV or you know, this like dropping in on, on TV when the Olympics happen, I buy one of those or I, you know, I buy access for a month. Yeah. And I do it then instead of paying for an entire year to get that access. Yeah. And I would totally do that for the

Ant Pruitt (10:32):
NFL. I wonder if that's part of their thought process, knowing people would only spend just for the season versus something year round. And yeah, I also have to mention that this is a story that originated on the Atlantic, but I, we are referencing it from the verge just to get that clear. Yeah. what are your thoughts on having someone like apple step in and say, you know what, let us provide this for you. I mean, granted NFL is huge, they got plenty of eyeballs. Do they even need the likes of an apple? Do they need the likes of an Amazon to help promote this?

Jason Howell (11:05):
I think that, it seems to me that that the NFL feels, I mean, they they've had that relationship with direct TV for so long. So it seems to me that maybe that's kind of been, their example is tying this as like a marque offering for one specific avenue. That's the other part of this that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Hmm. If they're doing NFL plus, and then they're also doing a deal with, with apple, would they then be going in the direction of like, you know, what? You can get the full season of NFL game in many different places. Yeah. You're still gonna be paying a lot in all these places or maybe you won't, I don't know what that looks like, but I mean, no matter what, that seems like a pairing that I don't know, kind of makes sense to me, NFL is this top notch, you know, top of the heap sports brand brand you, they are, it's a brand lead slash brand. It is a brand. Apple is top of the heap in, you know, in technology, you know, some might feel the same about their streaming efforts and

Ant Pruitt (12:05):
Everything. They're starting to creep up on the entertainment aspect.

Jason Howell (12:07):
I mean, they just want an Oscar. Right. You know, the Oscar for best picture first streaming come be to do that. Yeah. So yeah, I think it actually makes a lot of sense for them to tie their reputation to another. Yeah. That has, you know, an equally strong reputation.

Ant Pruitt (12:21):
Part of me feels like the NFL is just gonna be greedy and say, give me all the cash, we'll do this ourselves.

Jason Howell (12:28):
I don't doubt that one bit. We'll see where that heads to. Very interesting. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (12:34):
I'm, I'm looking forward to it. They have to make a decision, you know, before the 2022 season starts, which is what three, three to three to four months away from now. So they, they need to figure something out and, and get this ball rolling and please hurry up and let us know sooner rather than later. So I can figure out where I need to allocate.

Jason Howell (12:53):
I was gonna say, so you can start saving your money, your bucket loads of money so you can

Ant Pruitt (12:58):
Watch, okay. Folks, we're gonna cut out Netflix for a little while. All right. Kids, y'all good with that. Sure.

Jason Howell (13:03):
Might be a good tradeoff. All right, coming up. What is virtual kidnapping? I, I started to read this article, you know, like a week and a half ago. And I was like, you know, what, what the heck would that be? And it's actually really terrifying. So we're gonna talk about that. But first this episode, Tech News Weeklyis brought to you by net Foundry. If only there was just some magical way to stop DDoS attacks, stop brute force credential, stuffing CVE, zero day exploits, things we talk about on the show and this network all the time, BGP, hijacks, I mean fishing, you name it. There is by using open ZD you can actually isolate your applications and data that makes the security of your network entirely irrelevant. Open ZD is created and maintained by net Foundry. It actually represents the next generation of secure open source.

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Jason Howell (16:09):
Now, when you do so, and we thank net Foundry for their support of Tech News Weekly. All right. So this story has something that I, like I said just a few moments ago I had never heard of before, but it really caught my attention. And in reading through this this story, which really is written kind of in many, is like, like a novel, like, like it has like it's very descriptive. I just love how it was written. It turns out even if kidnapping is virtual as the name implies, it's still very terrifying for its victims and leaves a lasting mark, if not monetarily, but kind of traumatically. It's very, very interesting joining us to talk about this phenomenon is David Kushner from, well, who wrote this article for business insider. David is of course an author of many books, which we'll talk about a little bit later, but welcome to the show, David.

David Kushner (17:02):
Thanks for having me.

Jason Howell (17:03):
Yeah. It's great to get you on. I appreciate you taking a few minutes to talk to us about this. Sure. You start things off in your article, kind of setting the stage based around a gentleman who you name Richard Mendel Stein. The name is, is changed of course, for the purposes of the article, but set the scene for us because it really does kind of demonstrate how something that on its surface could seem like a, a little harmless, you know, like, oh, so you know, it's, so it's a praying phone call at the end of the day, but it has some dramatic impacts on, you know, on the family, on his life going forward. Essentially tell us a little bit about it.

David Kushner (17:41):
Yeah, completely. I mean, he was just you know, in in the Princeton New Jersey area, working at home, you know, as most of us do these days, it seems. And and he gets a phone call on his cell phone and it's from a number he doesn't recognize. And he's the guy who actually will report junk calls you know, that are coming in and he's an engineer and all that. But when he, he picked it up this time and he heard his daughter calling out for help saying, you know, help me, help me daddy and so on. And then the next thing, you know a, a man grabbed the phone and demanded a ransom and demanded that that this guy's, you know, not, not talked to his wife not responded any texts and that he has to now go get this ransom money if he wants to see his daughter alive.

Jason Howell (18:35):
And what's what what's instantly interesting about this as we kind of read through your article is, is the reality that the daughter is actually not on the other side of the call, right? This is ultimately, it's a number game, it's a scam, it's a hoax. Someone is calling, looking for a Mendel Stein to be on the other side that buys into it hook line and sinker. And the, I mean, part of the challenge, like I'm a, I'm a parent, you know, I've got two, two children. And I think about, I try and put myself into that position of picking up the phone and having someone saying, we've kidnapped your daughter. We demand a ransom. And then also not only just hearing that, because that in itself might sound a little suspicious depending on the situation, but actually hearing some reaction that sounds like my daughter or whatever. That's frightening. How, like, how does that work? If that per person doesn't actually have the victim? Why is that so convincing?

David Kushner (19:33):
Well, the, these were the questions that I had, you know, I had just, I actually knew this family who this had happened to, and I was obviously, you know, shocked by it and then found out, wait, this is happening all over the country. It's been happening for a while. It's incredibly widespread. And I assumed it was a lot more sophisticated in terms of how, how this was being done, but really it's just cold calling. And you know, a lot of people who they call won't have kids, right? So they're gonna hang up. And then other people will hang up because they're suspicious or what have you. They just don't buy it, but all they need is one per person. And in terms of, you know, in this case, for example, you know, when he, he related the story to me, the victim, you know, he said, I heard my daughter's voice, but it really wasn't her voice. It was recording of just a canned recording of a young woman crying for help. But in, in, in his mind it was his daughter. So when his wife asked him what's going on, he said, our daughter has been kidnapped. And she said, how do you know? And he said, because I spoke with her. So, you know, you can't underestimate what fear does to, to your perception.

Jason Howell (20:50):
Absolutely. I can only imagine, you know, hearing, hearing those words, hearing the cry, it's, it's almost like your, your mind fills in the gaps. Your reason in that moment is overshadowed by this adrenaline kind of Mo adrenaline filled moment. And, you know, we don't take the time to like rationally kind of make that, that analysis, like, was that actually the voice of my child was that higher or lower pitch or whatever the case doesn't matter. It's like, we've already decided like worst case scenario. I need to save my daughter

Ant Pruitt (21:22):
And the, yeah.

David Kushner (21:23):
You're you're yeah. You've, you've basically gone into, to the fight or flight. Yes. So you, there is no rational and it's very easy and, you know, and I, I spent a lot of time reporting on this. It's very easy to think that, you know, you never, you never fall for this, but that's what all of the victims thought too. And I, I think it's just, you know, just being vulnerable in that, in those moments.

Ant Pruitt (21:47):
Yeah. I believe that these bad actors, they know that's, that's how humans are going to react. This is sort of the flight or flight fight or flight, and it's an instant type of reaction. But my question to you with this happening, what exactly is the end game for the people doing these acts?

David Kushner (22:08):
Yeah. Well, money. And so basically what they're going to do is keep you on the other end of the line, as long as they can you'll go to a, you know, you'll go to a, a money facil wiring facility. You'll wire it to some kind of middle person, you know, who will pick it up and then it'll go you know, to, to the, to the people who are buying this, but they're, they're trying to get as much money as they can. And they are very Shrew about it because they're not asking these victims for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. They may be asking for four or $5,000. And the reason they do that is because it's it's enough that they can get somebody to pay it. Right. and so, you know, everything is very, very calculated and, and they know what they're doing.

Jason Howell (22:58):
Wow, no kidding. You also detail kind of how this is happening a little bit later in your piece. You, you, you show that a lot, you know, at least in some of these cases, these calls are being made from prison. How, how exactly does that, like, what are the machinations of, of how that actually works?

David Kushner (23:19):
Well, that's the crazy twist that happens is when, you know, initially these calls, these cases start happening first in Beverly Hills. And they were really confounding everybody. And and, and cops were falling victim, you know, these, these kind of socialized were falling victim, you name it. And then the, the, it spread over to a wealthy you know, suburb outside of Houston. So you know, they, they didn't really know what was happening or why, and what they eventually figured out was that there was this kind of king pen who'd come up with this system. And the system was to distribute burner phones in Mexican prisons. And because the prisoners are the ones who have all day to sit there on phones yes. And make cold calls. And the guys who came up with this scam had been in a, in a prison in Mexico. And they, they basically came up with this idea and it's, it's, it's from their vantage point. It's kind of a great idea because you know, when I spoke with the FBI, they basically said to me, you know, what are we supposed to do? These guys are in prison. You know, we can't throw 'em in jail, they're already there. So it's a very confounding situation for the FBI.

Ant Pruitt (24:41):
Yeah. It does. Sounds like a massive upgrade to the scam that we're used to a hearing with people calling you to say, Hey, your computer has a virus. And, you know, let me walk you through this. These, these are people that are already behind bars. They got nothing to lose, nothing to lose and more to gain for someone else. This, this is just really, really fascinating.

David Kushner (25:04):
Yeah. And, and, you know, my, I mean, the, the advice that the FBI has is just hang up. That's actually their, the messaging that they're doing because there really isn't a lot you can do to prevent from happening. And, and like I said, I mean, you'd be shocked about the numbers of people out there who, who this has happened to in some form. And a lot of people don't talk about it. Even though it has happened,

Ant Pruitt (25:31):
I wonder if there's some sort of like a, a, a catch rate, if you will, if, if someone answers the phone and, and doesn't fall for it, is that logged some type of way? I mean, I know they're using burner phones, but I wonder type of tracking or reporting back. This is, you know what I mean?

David Kushner (25:50):
They're just, yeah, exactly. I mean, the FBI, they're, they're again, like when I first heard this, I, you know, there were rumors going around town that they had actually, that the perpetrator had ripped some audio from, from the kids, you know, Instagram. So that would make sense. Right. That's how they may kind of create a deep fake to, to get them to believe it. But, but again, it's completely, they're it just, these are unsophisticated crimes kind of by design, you know, all you really need is a phone and some good social engineering skills yeah. Called

Jason Howell (26:29):
You know, time to find the word

David Kushner (26:31):
That's gonna. So, so, I mean, I think in answer your question, you know, I think they're just like, Hey, go through these set of numbers methodically, and they maybe just checking 'em off in a notebook, but, but that's, it's, it's really cold calling, you know? Yeah. And they just need one person.

Jason Howell (26:49):
Yeah. And I wanted to, I wanted to ask about the whole, you know, you mentioned deep face and, but I think in, in hearing what you just said, it really doesn't matter. Like my, my mind immediately jumped to, okay. So then, you know, people might be suspend because they don't, you know, that's not my daughter. Like, I, I hear that voice, whatever you know, hang up or, or whatever. But it really doesn't matter at the end of the day, like you said, it's, it's a numbers game, even if they were to do a deep fake and get the voice of that person, let's still, it's still such a small number compared they, they probably have the same am success rate, you know, just doing it kind of dumbly or blindly the way they're doing it right now. Yeah. And that's kinda frustrating.

David Kushner (27:32):
Yeah. I mean, it's just a con you know, yeah. They're, they're con artists. I mean, I, the way I think of it is that in hacking terms, I mean, I think they're just Phish out there. It's not to spear fishing, but the idea of spearfished virtual kidnapping to me is maybe one iteration of this. You know, if it does get to the point where you are targeting certain individuals and you are manipulating, you know, audio video, which is pretty feasible. So, you know, these things always seem kind of far out until they start happening. I mean, yeah. Years ago, 10 years ago, I wrote a story about the guy first guy who was hacking webcams. And, you know, that just seems so bizarre at the time. And we, you know, now we kind of take that for granted.

Jason Howell (28:19):
Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned that, cuz I have a story coming up later about wise that is entirely about that Barry in the news today. Yeah. This keeps happening. Yeah, exactly. Lastly, like you, you mentioned the book, you know, just a second ago, you're, you're an author of a number of books. One book that you wrote in the last few years is called alligator candy and actually kind of, you know, and by your admission, you, you mentioned this in your article, but you know, you detail your investigation of the disappearance of your own brother when you were a child. So it really kind of ties into the subject matter of what you're writing about here. So I guess I'm curious from that perspective, from your perspective, which is a lot closer to this than I'd say most people reading the article. Yeah. What are your thoughts about this am on a personal level about the impact that this has on people who are, you know, on the other end of it?

David Kushner (29:12):
Yeah. I mean, it makes me empathetic to it and, and I understand kind of as a journalist, who's been on this from the inside, you know, what happens within a family when those emotions get triggered and you know, and so I, I understand that through my own experience, but I just think it, it really speaks to how insidious this crime is that they are, you know, tapping this most vulnerable kind of primal emotion that's in everyone. Yeah. And just seeing if they can exploit it.

Jason Howell (29:47):
Yeah, indeed. Fascinating stuff. I love your writing. David, thank you so much for coming onto the show and telling us a little bit about this piece and, and your other work. Of course, David Kushner search for his, his work and people actually will wanna find your work. Where would you point them?

David Kushner (30:03):
You should go to my website, which is just David kushner.com.

Jason Howell (30:07):
Awesome. Thank you again, David. Best of luck. We'll talk with you soon. Thanks.

David Kushner (30:11):
All

Jason Howell (30:11):
Righty. Bye. Take care.

Ant Pruitt (30:13):
All right, coming up next. I want to talk a little bit about a social network that hardly ever gets talked about in any of my circles and that's LinkedIn. But before we do that, we want to take a few minutes to think this week's fine. Sponsor the folks at Neva. Oh yeah. Complicated and costly. Yes. That has been the state of audio conferencing in the larger spaces for a long time in trad, in choosing traditional audio systems, they tend to be a bit of a pain when it comes to installation because there's so much gear involved and there's cables everywhere. And then there's Burke yelling at you because you're tripping over the cables. There needed to be something that's so much simpler. And that's when the folks sat in the RVA stepped in. As they made a leap in creating the revolutionary mic microphone missed technology with this patented technology one or two integrated microphone and speaker bars fill a room with thousands of virtual little microphones.

Ant Pruitt (31:13):
There are no dead zones and everyone can be heard everywhere in the room meeting and class participants. You know, they can simply just talk amongst each other and it just sounds natural and they move around and everything just sounds good. And all of the remote participants can hear every single person in the room. Thanks to the continuous auto calibration. Your rooms are instantly and always ready for optimized audio. There is no outside text required. Thank goodness. Reva has also simplified this installation in its 30 minute DIY job set up. So not a lot of fussing and fighting with getting everything hung up and, and pulled and, and dragged across the floor. Oh, this is so much easier than that. So that means it's big savings on your time and costs compared to traditional audio systems. They've also simplified the management too. So it, you don't have to worry about stress and pain when it comes to managing this because in the Reva console has the power to let it monitor and manage the systems from pretty much anywhere.

Ant Pruitt (32:20):
So you don't have to worry about it running from room to room to make sure every is close to the mic and make sure the speakers are in the right spot. So, oh, just manage this stuff remotely. So simple. Now ask yourself if you want to go with the costly and complicated traditional systems or make the leap to the simple and economical Neva, learn more@neva.com. That's N U R E V a.com. All right. So yeah. I want to talk about LinkedIn because I gotta tell you, Mr. Howell, LinkedIn has been pro pretty, pretty, pretty important in my, my perspective from a photographer and content creative perspective. And when I talk about LinkedIn to people, they all look at me sideways. They're like, that's not Facebook, that's not Twitter. That's not Instagram, but LinkedIn has been pretty big for me for generating business. Okay. So I will go there and post post things about my different skills and whatnot I can offer for your business from a photography or videography standpoint and get gigs. I'm actually actively working on a gig right now. Nice. You know? Yeah. But here recently there's been a problem that I've noticed with my LinkedIn feed. I get a lot of random messages from recruiters, air quotes, and they will say, Hey, aunt, you look like you would be perfect for this job of hanging drywall at our facility.

Jason Howell (33:50):
You're like, oh wow. You know me so well.

Ant Pruitt (33:53):
So I'm thinking, okay, yeah, this is not a real person. This is clearly, or

Jason Howell (33:58):
It's a person with a really bad perspective,

Ant Pruitt (34:01):
Like,

Jason Howell (34:01):
Like really bad at reading the room. Right.

Ant Pruitt (34:03):
So I'm like, okay, something's going on here? And I just sort of chalked it up to typical social media. You're gonna have bots, you're gonna have spam and things like that, but it's gotten pretty bad here on LinkedIn. And the folks that NPR did a bit of an investigation and found that there's a out there that's creating thousands of fake profiles to help with the recruitment process of getting someone into a particular gig. And I looked at this and think and thought, okay, all right, AI is good for doing a lot of things to get, to get tasked done that are repeatable and get it done faster. And then there's gonna also be times when AI could be a bit of a bugaboo with stuff like this here. And the story is this company decided, you know what? We have a client that is trying to fill a role.

Ant Pruitt (34:52):
And there's only so many of us that can get out there and hit the pavement. If you will, to recruit people, why not just create several different bots or fake could counts that can go out and just, just mass recruit and, and try to see if we can pull into talent that way it's gonna save us time. It's gonna save us money. And we just may pick the person, be able to get the person we're looking for with a lot less effort. And this has been pretty, pretty scary to think about. But part of, from a business standpoint, I get it trying to make things easier on your sales team or your marketing team or recruiting team. But at the same time, ethics comes into play. Look, dude, I'm not here to hang your drywall, sorry, but you could at least do a little bit of research about me and understand that, Hey, nah, he's not here for hanging drywall. He's got other things that he's, that he's skilled in. And yeah, this is pretty, pretty scary stuff, but it's starting to get a little bit, little bit worse. Overall, LinkedIn, I always thought LinkedIn was gonna be more of the platform. That's, that's a bit cleaner and, and way more professional. You're not gonna see memes and things like that, but there's always the dagum bots that's in here to screw up the party,

Jason Howell (36:06):
Always the bots coming along and, you know, only having one earring on one side of the face because it's computer generated and part of their hair is, is faded out, out and blurs into the background. And

Ant Pruitt (36:19):
It's crazy. I mean, they, they tried to do a good job of creating these profiles. And, you know, as, as the story

Jason Howell (36:25):
In small images, they actually do look pretty.

Ant Pruitt (36:27):
It looks totally on when you're looking at just a, a, a profile on a webpage or whatever, and the images, just a couple pixels wide, but the, yeah, but in the story, they mention that as they closer at the profile, they noticed how things in the, in that profile image was just off because the AI really screw it things up from a portrait standpoint. Yeah.

Jason Howell (36:48):
I mean, there's pretty obvious tail tail signs and they did a really good job of, of spelling these out. But I've noticed these too, when, when I've seen different articles about, you know, like, is this a real person or a fake person, you know, and it gives you like a whole gallery of, of them. And you realize that holy cow computers are really good at creating fake people. Now it's

Ant Pruitt (37:07):
Getting better.

Jason Howell (37:08):
There are total signs, right? There's like that kind of blurry background that non-descript kind of vague blurry background. Yeah. The eyes they point out are centered and that's just because the, the matching right. You know, within the, the algorithm, you know, when it's centered it, it has the ability to kind of morph and transform between any more faces things like that. Earring only appearing on one side and not the other, which I'm surprised that these systems haven't like the people that behind the systems, haven't recognized that as a flock, cuz that that's the thing that come, comes up

Ant Pruitt (37:40):
More. Right. But see, that's the thing though. Some of this stuff comes off is yeah, that's really obvious. But at the same time, think about how many times you've been on say Instagram or, or Twitter, and someone's shared a, a selfie of themselves and you shot it in portrait mode where that's on iPhone or, or Android. And that thing, you see that at that, that AI really screwed up that blurry background and cut their hair off up. But we just sort of dismiss it cuz it's sort of normal. Maybe the AI is looking at it from that perspective and saying, huh, they're not gonna notice that

Jason Howell (38:12):
Most people probably aren't

Ant Pruitt (38:13):
All the time. Yeah. You know, totally.

Jason Howell (38:15):
Most people aren't. I mean, this kind of ties in with the interview a little bit. It's a numbers game. It sounds like, like when I read through this, I was like, well, yeah, but why, why would they, why would they release an arsenal of fake accounts on LinkedIn for recruiting? Aren't you then just like putting aren't you then essentially saying, Hey, anyone and everyone come work for us or something like, and I would think that you'd wanna hone this a little

Ant Pruitt (38:39):
Bit more. Right. You would think you'd want to filter it a little bit better, you know, but who, who knows it guess you're a recruiter, a couple of the companies that NPR reached out to said, yes, we have seen, we have hired a firm to help us with our recruiting, but we do not authorize them creating these fake accounts. And a lot of 'em they didn't know this stuff was happening. Yeah. but at the same time there were a few of 'em that knew, Hey, they're going to try to generate leads by any means necessary because we're trying to get this position filled. Yeah. But at the same time, they're like, no, we didn't want it to be just fake accounts out there. Scraping the internet.

Jason Howell (39:15):
Yeah. And when I think of all the social media services, LinkedIn, really, I mean, I guess, I guess Facebook likes to, you know, has, has enjoyed in the past saying that, well, our accounts, you know, it's all real people, you can't fake Facebook account, which is why

Ant Pruitt (39:34):
You lies.

Jason Howell (39:36):
But when I think of LinkedIn, like I just think of like the, the, the reason that LinkedIn exists is because it's kind of a place for us to show who we actually are from a career standpoint, which has the potential to, you know, lift us up to, to new Heights, you know, in our career. So I just think of LinkedIn, I think, well, why would you want a fake account on LinkedIn? Like what would that actually do for you?

Ant Pruitt (40:01):
But it's doing nothing for me. I

Jason Howell (40:02):
Guess somebody out there realized, oh, Hey, wait a minute. We could use it for recruiting.

Ant Pruitt (40:08):
I I've been bugged by this because again, I look at LinkedIn as just another way for me. And I'll just be Frank to continue to draw income, you know? And, and I'm, yes, I am not alone. I'm here doing my thing at TWI and I love it, but I'm also a photographer and, and I like to shoot shoot projects here in town and things like that. And LinkedIn is the perfect platform for that. You don't see me connecting to just everybody on there. It's just like with you on Twitter and Instagram, you, you get followed. A lot of people will just follow someone back just cause of the rationale of it. That's not my logic when it comes to LinkedIn.

Jason Howell (40:44):
No, neither is it mine.

Ant Pruitt (40:45):
Right. You know, the LinkedIn is more of, Hey, is this going to help me with my, my professional aspect? Not necessarily just social side of things. This is a professional platform. I try to treat it as such, but again, it's just so funny to see this kind of stuff, come through the messaging filter that says, Hey, you would be a perfect fit for flipping burgers for us. Come on.

Jason Howell (41:09):
If you ever think that, you know, this podcast thing isn't working for you and you wanna put up some drywall, let's just say, we got to you first.

Ant Pruitt (41:17):
Oh man, you it's so funny. And, and, and in more news with LinkedIn here recently, I, I find this funny because yes, I'm, I'm a content creator, but I hardly think of LinkedIn as being a platform for me to to use, to create content. So LinkedIn has now started rolling out some content creative tools that allow people to do like these little broadcasting events and things of that nature to talk about whatever it is they want to talk about. I've seen a few things pop up on my feed, including some from our very on Mr. Curtis Franklin on this in enterprise tech where he just did a talk about some Infor information, security things. And some of that sounds good, but at the same times, it seems a little bit weird. I don't know. Maybe it's because it's, I don't know. It just seems a little off 

Jason Howell (42:13):
To get content through LinkedIn. Yeah.

Ant Pruitt (42:14):
It, it seemed like when I think about the, the tools that are inside of ins Instagram TikTok, or, or Twitter, or what have you, it seems more entertainment ish to me. And I don't think about going to LinkedIn for entertainment, but I don't know, maybe that that's the thing know, trying to show that you can create educational content here on LinkedIn and it be professional and structured, but I don't know if, what they're gonna do to really make that better because they don't have the influencers yet. And I'm pretty sure they're not going to,

Jason Howell (42:46):
I don't see LinkedIn as a, as a real hot yeah. Destination for influencers. So

Ant Pruitt (42:52):
I, I

Jason Howell (42:52):
Don't know other than to create their, their portfolio and, and show how they are and influence

Ant Pruitt (42:58):
So

Jason Howell (42:58):
Reals, but maybe that's part of it too. You know, if people are on LinkedIn, that's a way of showing their work, I suppose, you know, I mean, and, and, you know, full, full disclosure, like TWI, we, we have content that hits up on, on LinkedIn as well. So it's not like we, we don't, you know, put our, choose to of content there to show what we do, but there's

Ant Pruitt (43:17):
Also, that's the thing though. We're, we're putting the content that we have already created out there as part of our own marketing push. Yeah. Okay. We're not going to the platform and create the, in the

Jason Howell (43:28):
Hopes of

Ant Pruitt (43:28):
Making the platform

Jason Howell (43:30):
Within LinkedIn. Right.

Ant Pruitt (43:32):
It's, it's a different, it's a difference there. I don't know if I, I, I just can't yet put my mind to say, you know what, I'm gonna go into link. I'm gonna log into LinkedIn. I'm gonna make sure I have the scene set up, make sure all my fonts are good and then I'm gonna hit broadcast. Yeah. That never crosses my mind. No.

Jason Howell (43:48):
So mine, mine either.

Ant Pruitt (43:50):
I don't know if it'll hit the other content creators out there, but let us know your thoughts, just tag on social media or

Jason Howell (43:58):
That works tag us on LinkedIn and let us know how you feel. All right. I alluded to it coming up. We're gonna talk a little bit about why there are a little bit of hot water.

Speaker 5 (44:11):
Thanks for listening to TWI podcasts. If you'd like to take it up a notch, you can get all of our shows without ads by joining club TWI, whether you're a loyal fan or once to give your employee something special with our corporate plan, you'll get the bonus TWI plus feed with extra behind the scenes, outtakes and access to a member's only discord all for just seven bucks a month. It's a great way to get just the content support TWI TV, and be a part of the tech community. Learn more and join club TWI at twi.tv/club TWI.

Jason Howell (44:45):
All right. So some security news, some unfortunate security. I'm super curious to hear your take on this wise, which is you're probably familiar with wise. We've talked about them on the network. Many times we review their products. And actually like, they I've felt like they make some pretty great smart home products, right? They make you know security cameras. They make locks, you know, like automatic locks for the doors that sort of stuff. And it's always, I I've felt in my exposure to wise high, high enough quality. It's not like the top tier, but the quality is really good at an affordable price.

Ant Pruitt (45:26):
That's the thing. It was always something that was pretty affordable and where anybody can just sort of jump into it because a lot of the stuff that's out there now from the I standpoint costs like a million dollars and not usually

Jason Howell (45:37):
It's not worth it or it's affordable and it's a piece of junk or, you know, really poorly made or really poorly supported. And it really seemed, you know, wise is is actually created by some X, Amazon some people who were high up in Amazon, it kind of had the foundation, you know, it's a, it's a, I think it's a west coast, you know, based on the west coast here in the states, had the foundations to be like, well, here's an inexpensive, a relatively inexpensive, smart home manufacturer. Yep. That makes quality products for less money than the rest. And they're supported well in all those things. Well, major vulnerability of the wise cam of which there are three different generations of the wise cam just ahead, you know, just to preface this is now being publicized. It was reported and relatively unfixed after being reported by bit defender for three years.

Jason Howell (46:30):
So bit defender publicly acknowledged just this, this week that it had notified wise of a serious issue with its cameras back in March of 2019. So three, three years ago, they said, Hey, wise, we've found some issues. A couple of those issues that the main one is this vulnerability that allows access to an onboard SD card via the internet at no authentication required to get that access. Apparently you plug in an SD card, it sets up some sort of, you know, way that somebody could access it. If they knew how online, without any authentication that would give that person access to any video, audio images that were stored there by the camera, but also any other file that the user might happen to put on the SD card, which I don't know how many users are, are doing that, but

Ant Pruitt (47:19):
Everybody doesn't format their SD

Jason Howell (47:21):
Cards. That's true. That's a good point. Okay. There you go. Sure. It's a really good point. You don't know what's on there. You put it in your camera, you

Ant Pruitt (47:26):
Slap it in there. So there was an SD card sitting around. I can plug it in. Yeah.

Jason Howell (47:30):
Right, right. I've got an S I've got one of those here. It is. Also storing log files and that's important because those log files include the unique identification number and AEs encryption key which could lead to full remote access of the camera entirely.

Ant Pruitt (47:46):
Oh, joy.

Jason Howell (47:47):
All right. So that's all stored on the SD card. So bid defender reported that they also reported two other vulnerabilities at the time. One, an authentication bypass flaw that ultimately was patched in September, 2019. So remember these were reported March, 2019. That was, that was patched September, 2019, the other, a remote execution vulnerability, which was patched November, 2020 money. So that was, you know, however many months, you know, what is that? That's 16 months after being reported, the SD card flaw was only fixed this January. So almost three months later in no cases did wise address these issues for its users publicly. And we're talking about a camera that has pointed and all sorts of things inside the home. Oh boy. I mean, just bad.

Ant Pruitt (48:36):
I, and just not good. I had two, two things that popped in my head when I saw this article and, and one of them is quite selfish and the first, and that's when I saw it, it said version one for the camera. And I'm thinking, okay, well, I don't have a version. One camera is, so I just totally dismissed it, which is totally selfish. I get that. But then it was like, wait a minute. They said three years. And didn't do anything about it or say anything about this. That's

Jason Howell (49:00):
Didn't say anything about it. That's,

Ant Pruitt (49:02):
That's a problem. Yeah.

Jason Howell (49:03):
Also now you have the wise system and I have a wise door lock. That's the only wise thing that I have. I have many wise things, but wise branded things. I only have the door lock. Yeah. And my understanding with the door lock is if I wanna update the firmware, I have to do it manually. Yeah. So I have to open the app. I have to connect it to, you know, make sure that it's connected properly to the lock. I have to update firmware, send it over. So this is all under the assumption that once they made at change, you with your camera then went in at some point, may have not been immediately. Cuz well, you didn't know that the dang thing was, you know, exactly in that state initially, but eventually you would go in and update your firmware until that happened. It was not updated.

Ant Pruitt (49:46):
You're not opening that camera app. Unless you see an alert that tells you to open because otherwise it's just, it's just sitting there running at least for me. And when I, when I see an alert that someone is walking across the yard, yeah. I'll open it up. Other than that, I, I don't think anything about those products, but why three years and why does sense anything? It just, it, it makes no sense at all and you can't throw the hole. It was COVID blame. Or, and I don't wanna hear any of that crap. You have all of the resources to work on these things remotely and get a fix in. And the people that are finding these bugs, they always respect the bounty and, and allow you plenty of time to, to go ahead and work it out before going public with it. So they tried to show you respect. You need to show respect to these consumers and get this stuff fixed in a timely manner. Not just sit on it, come on. Why is you better than this? I thought,

Jason Howell (50:38):
I agree with you to an extent. All

Ant Pruitt (50:41):
Right.

Jason Howell (50:42):
But Sean Hollister who wrote for the verge really points out something, you know, that's, that's important to, to take a look at through a critical lens bit defender waited three years to make this public too

Ant Pruitt (50:54):
Good point.

Jason Howell (50:54):
They told wise about this back in March, 2019, and they knew about this for three years and at a certain point it's kinda like, okay. And in fact, not only that bit defender contacted wise in March, 2019, they did, didn't actually did a response from wise until November, 2020. That was 20 months later. Oh wow. So they knew about it. They never got that response. Oh boy.

Ant Pruitt (51:15):
So

Jason Howell (51:15):
It's kind of also on them, right? Like obviously they, they weren't the ones that, you know, created the,

Ant Pruitt (51:22):
Is a whistleblower span, but it's still wise this product.

Jason Howell (51:26):
Absolutely. No, no. But I think, I think the response on bit defender's side too is, is questionable. It's like, why did you wait this long? Like right.

Ant Pruitt (51:35):
What we'll say, okay. Now, so what, what are the next steps? How are we going to educate consumers that this is something that we as consumers need to be aware of on a regular basis is again, I'm guilty of not check in my app, unless that thing gives me a reason to open it.

Jason Howell (51:51):
Yeah. You know, you know, the company, why, and again, Sean Hollister points this out. He you know, up until this happened, he was a very proud user of wise had all sorts of, you know, their cameras. I don't know how many, you know, in this article he basically says, says, they're in the trash now. Like I've thrown them all away wise. I'm never, you know, supporting another one of your products. This is a bridge too far, but he says he would get emails from wise. And I'm sure, I'm sure we have gotten these emails. Absolutely. I haven't seen them. Maybe they go into like my promotions folder and I just don't see them. And he said at first, you know, when I got them, I actually really appreciated them because they were just like in emails from Y saying, Hey, by the way, we've updated the firmware.

Jason Howell (52:32):
So make sure and go into your app and update the firmware on your camera. So that you're up to date on, Hey, blah, blah, blah. And he said at the time, I really appreciated those looking back now, knowing what I know, it feels kind of devious is kind of like, we're not gonna tell you why, but let's just us, you know, paint a rosy picture here. They said what did they say? Update the wise cam firmware, to be sure you are in tiptop shape. So you breathe easy and no wise has your back. That's smiley face. You know, that's

Ant Pruitt (53:03):
The thing I've seen. And the thing is why is they're not the only company guilty of that. You get a lot of stuff like that from some of the apps that you run on your smartphone, Hey, let's update the app for bug fixes. Yeah. They don't necessarily get you don't that it a vulnerability that was patched or anything like that. It'll literally just say bug fixes, Adobe. I'm a proud Adobe user and, and authorized affiliate do Adobe is known for having some security issues. And when I get my little release of time to update this app, it always says performance issues and bug fixes. It never says, oh yeah, we had a whole that we need to patch. Go ahead and fix that now. Thanks. Yeah. You know,

Jason Howell (53:44):
So why, why is that? Because I think, well, maybe, maybe there's a certain level of consumer who's less dialed into the day to day on technology products who would see that and be like, wow, they're completely insecure. But like, I'm, I'm a realist, I guess, in all this stuff, to where I understand that come companies, aren't gonna be release a product. Like hopefully they've done their due diligence, right. To make sure that their product is as safe as it could possibly be. But I also understand that like this is technology and holes happen. Yeah. And so if it happens to your product, just tell me, just say, Hey, this thing happened, we discovered it. We patched it, face the fire now versus later, or three years later, because I guarantee you, the reaction, the response is gonna be way greater three years later than it would, if you just

Ant Pruitt (54:33):
Admit yeah. That, that I get. But at the same time, maybe it's also a, a, a group of consumers that says, oh man, you had a, a, a flaw in this security and you just now told me one month later, that's a bridge too far. Right. And I don't know, we I've seen a bit of that too. People are a bit extreme, no

Jason Howell (54:50):
Question

Ant Pruitt (54:50):
What happens when it comes to stuff. So maybe that's why they're so tempered on how they approach this stuff. I don't,

Jason Howell (54:56):
I don't know.

Ant Pruitt (54:57):
Yeah. But I, I wish it was something that, that all of us as consumers would, would be better, better with, for the security of our, all, all of our different connected devices. For sure. It's, it's just, it's too common for this stuff to happen. I mean, we just got finished talking about basically being fished and, and it seems like that stuff is just continuing to happen more and more and more and more, and you're thinking it will, fishing is old news and it's still happening. Yeah, really. Yeah. So

Jason Howell (55:26):
Totally. There's still people to fall for it, I suppose. You know what I mean? There, there probably always will be, but there's just so many people on the planet

Ant Pruitt (55:36):
Wish we were

Jason Howell (55:37):
Wrong. Always a sea of, of people to take advantage of. Unfortunately,

Ant Pruitt (55:40):
I wish we were wrong. Yeah.

Jason Howell (55:42):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, we've reached the end of this episode, tech news. Thank you so much for watching and listening. We do this show every thursday@twi.tv slash TNW. That's where you can go to subscribe to the show in audio and video formats. You can also jump out to YouTube and subscribe there. Then you don't have to like seek it out. It'll just be delivered to you like magic. So twi.tv/tnw.

Ant Pruitt (56:08):
And if you wanna catch versions of this show without ads, you know, you can just join good old club TWI it's seven bucks a month, which is pretty much like one fancy cup of coffee hop on over there. You get all of the shows ad free. You get phoneless content. You get to hang out to our, in our discord and just chat with all of the other club TWI members. And we also offer an apple podcast subscription as well. It's only three bucks a month for that, where you can get ad free versions of the audio shows on the apple podcast platform.

Jason Howell (56:44):
Yes, indeed. Where can people find you online and Pruit?

Ant Pruitt (56:48):
Well, you can find me here at twi.tv/hop, twi.tv/o P for my show, hands on photography, or just head on over to the social medias. Give me a follow on Instagram. I am ant underscore Pruit. Oh

Jason Howell (57:02):
You. Yeah. And I'm a Jason Howell on Twitter. Also do all about Androids. That's twit TV slash AA every Tuesday. And that's really about it. Thanks to everyone who helped us do this show each and every week. Thank you, John. Ashley. Thank you, Burke. Woo-Hoo and thanks to you, dear listeners slash watcher slash chatter slash disc quarter, whoever you are. Thank you for watching listening. We'll see you next time on Tech News Weekly. And now do you wanna do a high five or fist bump,

Ant Pruitt (57:31):
Fist bump, always fist

Jason Howell (57:32):
Bump. Boom.

Ant Pruitt (57:35):
Always.

Speaker 6 (57:38):
Is that an iPhone in your hand? Wait a second. Is that an apple watch on your wrist? Do I, do I see an iPad sitting there on the table? Oh my goodness. You are the perfect person to be watching iOS today. The show where Rosemary orchard and I Mikah Sargent talk all things iOS T V OS watch OS HomePod OS. It's all the OSS that Apple has on offer, and we show you how to make the most of those gas. Just head to twit.tv/ios to check it out.