Tech News Weekly 384 Transcript

Mike Sorrentino

0:00:00 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Coming up on this episode of Tech News Weekly. I am your guest host, Abrar Al-Heeti, filling in for Mikah Sargent, and I am joined by the lovely Emily Forlini to discuss Mark Zuckerberg's true feelings about Instagram's success, Tesla's Robotaxis hitting the roads and Apple removing the available now language from its Apple Intelligence site. I'm also joined by CNET's Mike Sorrentino to discuss the new Motorola Razr phones. There's three of them this time. Stay tuned.

This is Tech News Weekly episode 384, with Emily Forlini and me, Abrar Al-Heeti, recorded on Thursday, April 24th 2025: Mark Zuckerberg's Instagram Envy. Hello and welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show where, every week, we talk to and about the people making and breaking the latest tech news. I am your guest host, Abrar Al-Heeti, filling in for Mikah Sargent, and today I am joined by my lovely guest co -host, Emily Forlini. Emily, how are you today? Hello, I'm great.

0:01:07 - Emily Forlini
How are you doing?

0:01:08 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I'm doing. Well, I've been joking that this is a very fun guest co-host takeover because you and I work for the same parent company and it really does feel like we're just taking over the show today, which I'm thrilled about.

0:01:21 - Emily Forlini
I'm thrilled we finally got in there. We warmed our way in and we're just setting up camp.

0:01:26 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Our plan is all going as we anticipated, but, yes, always a pleasure to get to talk to you, which weirdly, only seems to happen when we're on the show, so this is awesome. This is the part of the show where we share our stories of the week, something that we found interesting or that really made us think, or which we wrote, and this week I'm going to kick things off with my story of the week, which is about Mark Zuckerberg's true feelings about Instagram's success. So, as part of Meta's antitrust trial, which has been ongoing, we've been getting all these tidbits about the company's acquisition of Instagram, and there was an internal memo from 2018 that has revealed that Zuckerberg was a little worried that the popularity and growth of Instagram would cannibalize Facebook and then eclipse its success, and he apparently told meta executives that this could lead to the quote network collapse of the more engaging and profitable product to the quote network collapse of the more engaging and profitable product. So, to prevent this, he apparently proposed a few solutions, one of which was building more connections between Meta's apps so that they could function as one network, but then the other thing that he apparently suggested was spinning out Instagram as a separate company. Now this is really interesting because you would know, you would think, okay, facebook acquires Instagram, you know Facebook, now meta acquires Instagram and they should be celebrating the fact that they have this platform that you know can operate as a sister platform and otherwise was kind of a bit of a competitor to Facebook. But then to hear him kind of struggle with this idea of what if Instagram eclipses Facebook success and that idea of Facebook being the more quote engaging and profitable product, I mean always thinking about that bottom line, um, but then also thinking about that connection, that emotional connection that he had with Facebook, that he didn't necessarily have with Instagram, because it was something that was acquired rather than something that he created. This is also interesting because, you know, because Mark Zuckerberg is currently fighting to prevent the FTC from splitting up meta and then here he is back in 2018, floating the possibility of spitting off Instagram himself.

So I want to start off by talking about this idea of Instagram eclipsing Facebook's success, because I'm trying to remember when exactly I joined Instagram, but it was definitely when I was. I think I was like a freshman in high school or in college, rather, which must've been around. It was like I was either a freshman or sophomore was around 2013 that I joined Instagram, and I do remember that when I did, I definitely did stop using Facebook a lot less, and I think people within the same age bracket might feel the same way. Where Facebook suddenly became for the older folks, the less cool folks, it was less trendy and then a lot of us just shifted over to Instagram. But, Emily, what was your Instagram and Facebook journey like? Did you experience something similar to that?

0:04:21 - Emily Forlini
Totally. Yeah, I think we're just cut from the same cloth, and it felt like all my friends had the same thing. It was like Facebook emerged in high school and it was like whoa, we can actually do this social network thing. I don't know, it just was an explosion. It was totally new. And then, very swiftly, a few years later, I got on Instagram and it just felt like Facebook has just slowly just full death. Nobody I know uses it. I do use it for Marketplace, which I really like, but it's fully dead. People don't post even their wedding photos on there. They don't post when they move cities. It's just a relic, and so I see why Zuckerberg was concerned. I think he was right, absolutely.

0:05:05 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I think relic is also just a great description. I went on Facebook the other day for some reason that I don't even remember anymore, and I was like I just feel like I blasted back to like 2010. I just don't, it's like a time capsule.

0:05:16 - Emily Forlini
I don't know how that was just such a complete death. It almost feels beyond me because I mean it is kind of cool. It's kind of like very similar to Instagram. So I don't, I don't know, Instagram just blew past it.

0:05:29 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, absolutely, I, um, I think also, you know, the whole Cambridge Analytica scandal was kind of the nail in the coffin, I think, in a lot of ways, but um, but there was definitely this, this sudden vibe shift where once the cooler kid came into town and all the young kids went over to that. I think it's kind of similar to what's happening now with, like, instagram and TikTok. I think Instagram is still a lot more relevant than Facebook was, as we made that shift, but TikTok is like the cooler, the new kid on the block.

0:05:55 - Emily Forlini
There's kind of a trend there a little bit because Facebook when it started felt a little bit personal. You would post on people's walls and it was public. There were things like oh, update your relationship status. And it was really like putting yourself online and then Instagram pared it down. It was like, oh, just put these photos. So there's like mystique around it. And now TikTok is even more anonymous, where most people don't post anything and they're just lurking and looking at it like entertainment. So it's almost getting less and less personal, absolutely.

0:06:24 - Abrar Al-Heeti
And actually my favorite thing about TikTok is that I don't really see my friends as posts, yeah.

0:06:30 - Emily Forlini
It's anonymous, it's like a safe space almost. You just do your own thing, follow your interests.

0:06:34 - Abrar Al-Heeti
It is, and sometimes I'm like uncomfortable when I'm like, oh yeah, like people I know I'm not doing anything ridiculous on there, but I'm like that's kind of where you just kind of break free and you're like the right people will find this with the right interest, and then somebody you actually know, like the people that you know, start liking it. You're like, oh yeah, I can see this, that's right.

0:06:49 - Emily Forlini
Yeah, like I have this one guy from high school who likes some of my like podcast clips from stuff like this and I'm like that is those two worlds. That's just too much.

0:07:01 - Abrar Al-Heeti
We do need a safe space, and it's getting a little too popular, but that just seems to be the trajectory for all these platforms.

But, yeah, so you know, okay. So then the other piece of this is there's a really great story that I saw in the Washington Post about why Mark Zuckerberg is so pressed about Instagram success, and it explores the idea of envy, which is just really interesting. It references something called the theory of envy, which is that you're more likely to feel envy toward people who are close to you and when you perceive that they are successful and when it's an area that matters to you, whether it's athletic abilities, romantic relationships or professional accomplishments, and so that's such an interesting setup here. But this also highlights insight from a research professor emeritus named Abraham Tesser, and he says that Mark Zuckerberg might be treating Facebook again, which he started, as an extension of himself, versus Instagram, which is, you know, something that was acquired, and it's more of like this close friend that he envies, and so that is just a really interesting way to perceive that as well. It makes sense, right? Yeah, I was going to say do you think that is that kind of adds up there?

0:08:20 - Emily Forlini
Yeah. And then the article just used the word relatable and I was like that is really relatable that I could see if I I mean, I've never really put myself in Mark Zuckerberg's shoes and reading that article I was like, well, if I put myself in Mark Zuckerberg's shoes I might feel the same way, because he started Facebook in college. I mean what a tender memory. I mean what a tender memory. And we saw that the social network movie and it kind of changed the world and like how could you not have a soft spot for that? Even if you're kind of like a billionaire slime ball, there's a soft spot in there and I get it in this case. And then he bought Instagram, which I guess just was clearly better. Probably in all the metrics it just was better. And now it won. So he probably wants to keep Facebook alive. Maybe it's kind of like his little darling. Maybe that's why he hasn't changed it. Maybe he should.

0:09:11 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I think that's true, and he's one of those tech executives that still remains a CEO of a company that he founded, hasn't stepped back like a lot of other tech CEOs and founders have, so he clearly has this very direct relationship with it, and so there has to be maybe a sense of resentment there.

But then the alternative is, if they had never acquired Instagram that's what I've been thinking about Do you think Instagram would have become what it is now? I think no, but I think spinning it off also, which was that idea that he was toying with I think that would have been a very foolish decision for meta and so I. It's been interesting to read about how emotions have really played into a lot of those decisions that he made, about even Instagram's growth, because Instagram's co-founder, kevin Systrom, has said that Mark Zuckerberg would turn down requests for hiring more employees or improving the app in various ways. So I don't know what do you think could have been the alternative here? Do you think if this acquisition hadn't happened, would we still be even talking about Instagram right now? I don't know.

0:10:17 - Emily Forlini
I'm thinking about WhatsApp. Really, they also have WhatsApp. I feel like this the Instagram acquisition just opened the door to so many things and it's hard to even imagine a world. I mean, they clearly sprinkled some magic fairy dust on it because it just has completely taken off and even, I think, for the most part, survive. Tiktok Like it's. I think I saw yesterday a study the top three sites for Gen Z are YouTube, tiktok and Instagram. So Instagram is still fighting its way in the top there. So it's just it's so hard to say if it would have stuck around if he hadn't bought it. I have no idea.

0:10:56 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, there's a lot of would have, could have, should have, but what we do know is, as this trial proceeds, we will definitely get more nuggets out of this and find out more about what was going on behind the scenes. As Facebook and Meta kind of continued to rise in power and influence With that, it is time for us to take a quick break, so I'm going to toss it to Mikah.

0:11:16 - Mikah Sargent
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0:14:13 - Abrar Al-Heeti
And we are back from the break, and that means it is time for Emily's story of the week, which I'm really excited to discuss. Emily, what do you have for us?

0:14:26 - Emily Forlini
All right. So the first Tesla Robotaxis are out in the wild. Tesla tweeted yesterday that a handful of employees are taking rides in the Robotaxis. They might be calling them from the app like an Uber. I know that's the end vision, but this is kind of like a preview we didn't expect before the launch in June. So have you been following the Robotaxi drama? I?

0:14:44 - Abrar Al-Heeti
have been Okay. So I cover Robotaxis at CNET and I mostly focus on Waymo and Zoox, and every time something comes up about Tesla's Robotaxis I kind of take it with a pinch of salt, just because I feel like Elon Musk has very ambitious goals with a lot of things, and I think the Robotaxi is one example. So this idea of you know the fact that they're rolling this out, for employees at least, is I'm genuinely surprised that I was like OK, so it's. Even if it's supervised, it's still ready for that, which is a big deal. And then aiming for that public ride launch in Austin in June still sounds very ambitious to me. So I wanted to ask you if you think that's going to happen. Do you think by June, members of the public will pop in?

0:15:36 - Emily Forlini
Yeah, so okay, I actually think it might happen. And I I think because the ambition is actually a lot smaller, at least for June, than what he presented. There was this crazy I think it was October this crazy event where he revealed the new Robotaxis. It was the first time we had seen them. They drove out on stage in Hollywood and then there was the robo-van, which he pronounced robo-van, robo-van gosh, which is very odd, I can't get over it. And then, so it was very futuristic and he was saying you know, we want sci-fi movies to be real and that is very different than what is launching in Austin in June. So it's going to be just model wise, like the ones we all know, just 10 to 20 of them. They're going to have steering wheels, they're going to have brake pedals, all the stuff, the futuristic cars didn't, so I think, they're just going to keep it in a tight radius.

Austin doesn't have crazy bad weather or anything. Other companies have been able to deploy their vehicles in Austin, like Now Dead Cruise and Waymo, so I think they're going to be able to put 10 to 20 out there. To me, the biggest thing is like is the app ready? Like can people actually call a car and transact a?

0:16:49 - Abrar Al-Heeti
ride. Yeah, and that's also something I wanted to touch on in a bit too. But speaking of this, at least anticipated rollout in Austin. The thing about the Robotaxi event that happened in October is they had the, the humanoid robots, and there was a suspicion that there were people in the back that were actually controlling them. They were yeah Right, it was. I think that was confirmed.

0:17:11 - Mike Sorrentino
Yeah, okay there you go.

0:17:12 - Abrar Al-Heeti
So I wonder with this you know fully autonomous driving in these model wise is there going to be someone on the backend who's like also? You know what I mean. Just, it become easier then to roll that out.

0:17:25 - Emily Forlini
Something that I, so I looked into it because I don't know. If you remember, about a month ago there was a viral YouTube video of this guy who tested it might've been a Waymo or another kind of self-driving car versus a Tesla and like if it could recognize obstacles in the road.

Ah I didn't see that. Did you see that? I didn't see that. No, it was a really big video. I'll send it to you. Okay, someone can put the link in the chat if they know what I'm talking about, like Mark Rober or something like that, okay, anyway, and so it was arguing the whole thing like Tesla only wants to use cameras instead of cameras and LiDAR, and then other companies use a lot of mix of, like all kinds of sensory inputs, and it was arguing that the Tesla is not as good because it only uses cameras. But in my research on if that's true or not, I found out that Tesla actually does use lidar in its training. Oh yes, and so maybe they're out there just with, like, the whole shebang, all the sensors gathering, learning the roads, and then when the pilot comes on, they'll like switch it to the camera system and say, see, we're just as good.

0:18:26 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, because just using cameras really is a little off-putting. That's not enough to keep people safe, in my opinion, so I'm not surprised that that is still. They're still tapping into that that lighter on you know on the backend there you mentioned. I want to go back to that idea of you know summoning these cars via an app, and you've also reported on a potential Uber collaboration, how Uber has said that they'd be interested in you know being the platform where you would call a Tesla self-driving vehicle, in the same way that they allow you to do that with Waymo vehicles in certain cities. So tell me a little bit more about that, too, and whether you think that's really the way that this can take off.

0:19:06 - Emily Forlini
Yeah, that was the big debate when the Uber CEO came out and said that I don't think so. I think Tesla has so much pride in its tech that it's. I think the Uber CEO was trying to kind of like put a stake in the ground and say like, oh, come over here and just putting that out there, letting it just hang in the air. But I think that Tesla will just do it on its own app. We've already seen renderings for its app.

I think it's just part of the branding and it wants to be kind of like an Apple ecosystem, and it already is a little bit like that. When you own a Tesla, you do a lot in the app, and then you have the superchargers, so that's kind of their model too. App the superchargers, so that's kind of their model too.

0:19:40 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I think that makes sense because I was, you know, in comparing this to Waymo, for example. So Waymo in certain cities like San Francisco or LA, you have to have the Waymo app to ride, and that can actually be a barrier for some people, because I know it takes two seconds to download an app, but if you don't already have it, you're you will be less inclined to actually do it, versus in cities like Austin where, if you have the Uber app, you would have the option to summon a self-driving vehicle. If you want to mix things up a little bit and call a Waymo instead of a human-driven ride, and I think that the fact that also Waymo rides are priced the same as human-driven rides, all of those things might entice somebody to take a self-driving vehicle, even if they hadn't thought of it before. But you're right that Tesla has its own fan base, essentially, where people are already using the Tesla app for other things. So it's not this direct translation between Tesla collaborating with Uber and Waymo collaborating with Uber, right.

0:20:39 - Emily Forlini
Totally yeah. I mean we'll see again 10 to 20 vehicles. I think that's why I'm wondering are they really going to build out a whole app experience for that? Like if I go to Austin in June and I download the Tesla app, like can I really call a car? So I think that's just a big question.

But one other thing that I found out when I was reporting on this, just kind of like why didn't Tesla already launch this? And I had a call with Waymo just about self-driving regulations in general, and the spokesperson there was like I don't know why they haven't done this already, because there are actually no legal requirements that they wouldn't hit in Austin or in Texas in general. And I emailed the Texas DOT and I was like hey, are there any legal requirements? Has Tesla gone through a permitting process? That was at the delay. And they were like no, I mean, if you're an accredited car company and you have all the safety checks of a manually driven car, you're good to go. So I don't know if they were too busy with the cyber truck or what, but like, what do you think has caused the delay?

0:21:44 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, I think there's um, there's a little bit of a trust issue when it comes to, so what Tesla currently calls, you know, uh, self self-drive. Full self-driving is has hit some roadblocks right Pun intended there and I think the self-driving space is already so competitive and so expensive, and so Elon Musk is very ambitious, and Tesla likes to do things that are outside the box, and so I think it was inevitable that they would launch something that truly is full self-driving at some point. But you're right, they're kind of late, because Waymo has the huge advantage of having been so early and having had that staying power.

0:22:22 - Emily Forlini
Right, they're basically in Waymo's box. They're not outside the box at all. Waymo is on another planet. It's launching more and more cities. It's testing in snow and rain in Miami. It's just totally full steam ahead and Tesla's like oh, we're going to put 10 to 20 Model Ys in Austin.

0:22:40 - Abrar Al-Heeti
That's a very small pool and, again, it's a vehicle that they already have. It's not the cyber cab or anything, which I also side note. I'm not sure if it's optimistic that that would actually happen in 2026, but we'll see, we'll get to that. But yeah, I think for Tesla, maybe their priorities haven't been focused on that, but I think it is to their detriment, right? So, you know, even Zoox is a bit ahead of them too, because they've been testing longer than Tesla, than Tesla has, with these fully, this fully autonomous driving. But but the regulations are interesting, because you mentioned, you know, in Texas it's kind of free reign, they can, they can do whatever they want, but then in other states everyone tests in California, but there are stronger regulations there, right? So and you mentioned that too Do you think that has kind of been a piece of that hurdle too, of making sure that they can also, you know, test and roll out in places like California?

0:23:38 - Emily Forlini
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I mean it just feels like they're starting very small. You can only imagine that they were trying to perfect the tech. I mean, I know the Q1 earnings call last year was all about kind of Elon Musk burning down the reputation before the most recent one. But he was kind of saying like we're not a car company and he stopped.

He started changing the narrative really seriously about a year ago and saying like we are an AI company. He had that quote you might've heard, where he was saying if you don't think we can solve self-driving, do not invest in us. And so he started getting really serious about AI, started seeing more job postings going up on Tesla site, all aspects of AI, including the Optimus robot, and so that seems to be what they've been working on and maybe they're trying to kind of pull an apple and be like a little bit late to the game. But with, you know quote unquote better tech and if you can do it with only cameras, it is cheaper. You know you don't have to put like all the stuff on the car. So Waymo has that big thing on the top and I mean it's like all this equipment. So I guess they're just trying to figure it out, and that's the only thing I could guess. I think they've really been focusing on the tech.

0:24:49 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, I think so. And self-driving, again, is very tricky. There are regulatory hurdles, there's cost issues. Tesla's going to spend a lot of money on trying to develop this, not only the technology, but then also the vehicles themselves. So that's why I'm also curious. I mean, we've seen, like you mentioned, cruise, we've seen cruise collapse, and for GM to say we're not going to fund this anymore and we're just going to focus on personal vehicles is interesting, because Tesla currently is focused on personal vehicles and wants to branch out into this ride hailing service. So it's just this evolving space where no one actually knows what the answer will be. I know you're not on the West Coast, so I know. For us here in San Francisco it's very common to just hop into a Robotaxi, but have you taken a ride in like a Waymo or something?

0:25:40 - Emily Forlini
I have, but they are not around here, they're not in like New York city area. It's not like my friends in California say oh, I love Waymos, I love taking them, I love that. I don't want to talk to anybody and I'm like yeah you guys, it's a different life you're living.

0:26:02 - Abrar Al-Heeti
It is and I think that's the other piece of it is like we're in this bubble here where we think this is normal. And then I talk to anybody who is not in even the Bay Area and the question is always do you think self-driving vehicles will actually become a reality? And I kind of have to mention that they are for some people, and that's the key point here is for some people. And so I just wonder whether it's Tesla or other companies if and when and I think if and when it'll really become widespread. And then I did also just want to touch on the actual cyber cap, the actual steering wheel-less vehicle. And so when Elon Musk announced that back in October, he said that that wouldn't start production until 2026, but then he kind of, you know, erred on the on the side of caution, was like well before 2027.

Um, and then again the Robo fan van slash, robo van Um. That's also an interesting piece, because self-driving public transportation although it would really be public, but getting in a self-driving van Um I think there are other companies that have worked on self-driving buses and things like that. But what do you anticipate in that regard in terms of the actual vehicles that he has announced, do you think?

0:27:08 - Emily Forlini
we'll see that. First of all, I love that you're just dropping Reboven in conversation. I don't think there's anybody in my life that I could bond over how ridiculous Reboven is. Nobody would know what that is. I definitely could not use it as a casual sentence. So we're just we are so in the weeds Just nerving out in this. Yeah, Okay, so Reboven. Don't we actually talking about the Reboven, or did you ask me something else?

0:27:37 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, no, I mean, do you think those are? Is there an appeal to a Rebovin versus a CyberCab, and do you think we'll see both of those? Are we going to see both?

0:27:45 - Emily Forlini
Yeah, Okay. So what I think is going to happen is there's been all this talk about Tesla. Are they doing a $25,000 EV, Are they not? And I think they might try to merge them together and make the $25,000 EV which they claim they're still working on. Just make it the cyber cab.

0:28:01 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah.

0:28:01 - Emily Forlini
Just because they're very focused on manufacturing, as they should be as a manufacturer of cars, right, and I know the method of cyber truck manufacturing was a big point of pride for Elon Musk, and I think they're going to try to do something that he thinks is kind of production tech genius with this one, and he'll make it so the assembly line can crank out like one with the cybercap features, one for a consumer.

0:28:25 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I think it'll be something like that, personally right, yeah, I think, um, I'm sure we'll have plenty of, uh, interesting updates in terms of what, what he's got going on and and what we'll see actually roll out, and I can talk about you. I could talk to this, uh, talk to you about the robovin forever, apparently, but we're going to wrap it up there. It's just a bond, it is. I love this. We'll find more reasons to bring it up, don't worry, but it is time for us to take another break. So let me toss it back to Mikah.

0:28:52 - Mikah Sargent
Thank you again, Abrar and Emily, for a fantastic episode of Tech News Weekly. I do want to pop in here to take a break to tell you about Spaceship, who are bringing you this episode of Tech News Weekly. Love Spaceship, and I've got a question for you. Why in the world do we assume that simple and affordable means basic and only for beginners? Why does it have to be that way? Well, tech professionals want to save time and money, too. Right. That's the idea behind Spaceship, the pioneering domain and web platform that takes the pain out of choosing, purchasing and managing domain names and web products like shared hosting, virtual machines and business email. Alongside below-market prices for domain registration and renewals, Spaceship has some pretty fresh ways to deliver simplicity. There's Unbox for connecting your Spaceship products to your domain and configuring it all in just a few steps. Alf, your very own AI assistant for making life easy from domain transfers to updating DNS records. Basically, ALF loves the stuff that you probably don't. And Roadmap for exploring, suggesting and voting on new features and products, so customers and the tech community get what they really need.

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0:30:34 - Abrar Al-Heeti
And we are back from the break and I have the wonderful Emily Forlini with me to discuss one more story of the week, this one about Apple intelligence. So let's take a trip back to WWDC 2024. This is when Apple showed off its upcoming suite of AI features called Apple intelligence, and that was basically the focus of that developer conference. And then September rolls around. We get the iPhone 16 announcement and, in addition to hardware news, we hear a lot more about Apple intelligence, which is coming later. That's the big caveat, right. So here's the iPhone 16. It can do all these cool things with Apple intelligence, but just not yet. And then wait a couple of months. Some of those AI updates roll out. We get features like writing tools, my personal favorite Apple intelligence feature, which is the cleanup tool. Emily, have you? Have you played around with the cleanup?

0:31:25 - Emily Forlini
Is that in images where you can remove stuff?

0:31:27 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, it's my favorite thing. What are you removing? What do you have to hide? I want, but I like to use it on like photo bombers or if something's just not right. I also realized this is a side little hack for you guys. If you ever feel like your outfit is like slightly off, like sometimes my shirt is just like not sitting right, I use the cleanup tool to like fix it and so it like fills in space. It's like this weird. I actually like I posted a little clip of it on my TikTok Cause I it's very good, it's my go-to thing. Anyway, cleanup tool is great. Other phones have it, like Samsung phones. Galaxy phones will have a similar tool, but Apple finally getting it was a big deal and things like notification summaries, which are sometimes hilarious.

We love seeing what Apple Intelligence thinks is the rundown of your group chat. But then we eventually got things like chat, gpt integration into Samsung Sorry for triggering that Genmoji Image, playground, visual intelligence. We got a large batch of those updates, but the one thing we haven't gotten yet is that that we were promised. Sorry again, I should stop saying it, okay. So so you know, what we don't have is something where you can ask that smart assistant. You know what's that book that Emily recommended I read, or am I going to be late? And it based am I going to be late to this event based off this flight, or what time does this flight arrive, so on and so forth kind of searching through your phone and pulling that and really making that virtual assistant your actual AI assistant.

In light of all that, apple has a page for Apple Intelligence. For a while it said available now. Underneath that big banner. It has now removed the words available now. The Verge reported that this has since changed. It looks like that language was removed in late March and this is due to a recommendation from the National Advertising Division, and the NAD apparently suggested that Apple discontinue or modify that claim, saying that it quote, reasonably conveyed the message that certain AI features became available with the launch of the iPhone 16.

I've been reflecting on this because everyone's been talking about how rocky of a launch Apple intelligence has been. There have been some people who have argued that it was intentional that Apple rolled it out in this staggered approach, because Apple likes to wait and be careful and I think Apple's general approach to AI has been a bit more careful and measured than other companies, but I think, ideally, they would have loved to launch Apple intelligence when the iPhone 16 came out. I don't think it was by design that they were like, oh, you have to wait a couple of months because people are buying the phone with the expectation that they're going to have the latest features. This is kind of unprecedented, right, and so even when it does come to SIRI, the NAD said that Apple had included that update under the available now heading, even though it's not actually here yet. So that's also something that was tweaked. But, Emily, do you use any Apple intelligence features?

0:34:43 - Emily Forlini
No, and that says a lot because I've been tracking it since the start. Like you talked about WWDC, I remember my editor was like I need you to write something about Apple intelligence after the conference and I was like write what? I mean? They didn't. I don't know what it is. Is it a marketing play? Is it an AI model? Is it one feature? Is it 10 features? Is it 100 features? Is it a new UI? Is it a new phone? Like what is it?

It was so vague from the start start and then they kind of isolated it down to a couple features and then those were not available at launch, but then when they became available, I started testing them and stuff and um, several of them I think I would just define as like bloatware. Like you know, the image playground is like total nonsense. I disabled the notification summaries because I found them very distracting, so I'm not using it. I don't use writing tools for anything.

0:35:39 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I would hope not. As writers, we probably shouldn't Right.

0:35:42 - Emily Forlini
Yeah. So I don't know. I wish Apple the best. I think they are having a lot like kind of going through a storm right now, but I think it is good that the NAD, which is part of the Better Business Bureau, are kind of related to it, and also a couple of lawsuits have called Apple out, because I've seen that Amazon and other companies have taken a page out of the Apple Intelligence rollout. They've kind of started to do the same thing, where they showcase all the features they have, all the demo videos. They're like, wow, it's a whole new Alexa, and then it's not available. They're like, wow, it's a whole new Alexa, and then it's not available. So I think this is right for somebody somewhere to put their foot down and say, okay, this is not good for the consumer, this is not good for the tech industry. When you have something that you're launching, either you have it or you don't. And I think that was a very healthy correction from the AI hype that we have seen over the past couple of years.

0:36:34 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Absolutely, and you are a great example of the thing that I've been thinking about, which is do people even want these AI features? Because you are somebody who is in the tech bubble, right, you're writing about this stuff every day. I'm in the Reboven, I live in the Reboven, writing about this stuff. I'm writing in the.

0:36:50 - Emily Forlini
Reboven writing about Apple intelligence and I just it. Just naturally, I'm not using it. You know I'll write the article. This is how it works, you know. Here's a picture of the Reboven. I removed Elon Musk from the background with it.

0:37:04 - Abrar Al-Heeti
We'd find a way to work it in again. Excellent.

0:37:10 - Emily Forlini
You know good work there. But yeah, I just I naturally in my life haven't been drawn to it and I was really disappointed with the notification summary. It's like actually going to the length of turning them off and then they were reactivated with another iOS update and I turned them off again and I was like I would love to love this feature. It's just I'm finding it very distracting.

0:37:26 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned kind of image playground being the silly thing too.

0:37:39 - Emily Forlini
For me it's things like genmoji, where I'm like okay, who asked like, did we? Did we need this? Um, I thought it would be fun, but like I've tried to create some and they haven't, they haven't been right, so, no, I don't know. I'm so open to it. It just like it's not sticking.

0:37:45 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah yeah, and so apple is a good example of um doing something because, uh, shareholders expect it or because competition is doing it. And I've just been thinking about actual consumers and what they actually want from a phone. And we have a survey that I think we need to redo. But we did a CNET survey back last year in the summer and it was about how people feel about AI features on their phones and, to be fair, this was before Apple intelligence really launched, and the biggest things people actually cared about were still things like battery and storage, you know, things that actually matter the basics, right. So I'm not saying there's no space for AI.

I think there are AI features that have been on people's phones that they didn't even realize were AI for years, Right, but you know, how much do we need to be, you know, hit over the head about it and, uh, how much do these features really need to be baked in? And and then you know, I do think it's also true that people who bought an iPhone 16 deserve to have had those features that they were promised. Right, that took forever to roll out. Or you know, the the smarter smart assistant that hasn't arrived yet. That that's something that people really do desperately want, because it's about time it got smarter. It's still not very great and it's not really bad.

0:39:00 - Emily Forlini
Well, especially because you can just ask Chachapiti everything now. So Siri is like really left in the dust. Exactly the thing is have you heard of anyone who bought an iPhone 16 who was upset that it didn't have Apple intelligence?

0:39:14 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Personally, not, and I think that's what I've been thinking about is like some people care, but some people just don't and they just want to take nice pictures and text their friends on FaceTime.

0:39:23 - Emily Forlini
They just want the newest tech, Like it probably had a couple other upgrades here and there. It's just like kind of, if it falls in a forest, does anyone hear it? Like I don't know. I mean, there's just not a feature everyone's talking about.

0:39:35 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, exactly, exactly and you know it's. It's again that idea of you know is Apple. I think it's good to be careful with things like AI, too, because the risks are high and and making sure that everything is operating smoothly, especially if it's a smart assistant. You know you want to make sure it really knows what it's doing, and then also they did disable those notifications because they were cranking out fake headlines.

0:40:01 - Emily Forlini
Yes, it was like the Luigi Mangione, the United Healthcare I don't know what to call him convicted.

0:40:10 - Mike Sorrentino
I don't know if I should say that word.

0:40:12 - Emily Forlini
But anyway it put out a headline that he shot himself and it was like that just wasn't correct. And so the BBC was like, hey, apple, do not say that we had this headline. And so there are active risks that Apple is responding to. So I think it's good you brought that up.

0:40:29 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, and I know, when AI overviews first launched on Google, there was a lot of there still is, I mean but there was a lot more false information.

I don't remember I don't know if you remember them telling people to put like glue in their pizza and stuff.

You know, like they're rocks or something. I don't know whatever it was, but I think Apple doesn't want to fall into that too. So, and then the other part of it is when Apple announced that they were going to add that chat GPT integration to Siri, there was also this mention that potentially other AI tools could be baked into that, and you think, okay, like Gemini, for example, like that could be something that Apple eventually works in there, but it's such a competitive space and people could just go to chat GPT or could just go to Gemini to get answers to their questions, and so I think it is critical for Apple to get that, uh, upgraded Siri launched sooner rather than later. Um, but, but yeah, I just I I'm thank you for validating my the question that's just been rumbling in my mind of like, yes, it matters that they said that something was going to come out and it hasn't fully launched, but what do people really kind of expect from their devices. Right Did they care?

0:41:41 - Emily Forlini
Did they just like that it has the new chip for AI? Did they dig into the details? Because for me, since I'm so in the weeds, like in the fine print, I knew none of this was going to be available and I'm wondering did consumers really think that it was? And it's just like maybe if anyone listening like did you think that it was going to? Be, really available or not?

0:42:03 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I don't know. Yeah, no, exactly. And then there was also that ad that it had of Bella Ramsey essentially using Siri to pull up somebody's name that they forgot, and I think there are really cool uses for how this can factor in, but maybe not a little more useful than something?

0:42:22 - Emily Forlini
like Genogeo Image Playground, right. Yeah, I just want to be able to say like change, like turn off Bluetooth, or just like I wanted to just like run my phone, kind of like little changes, or just be like how do I do this or that I can't even think of examples but just like little things I need to do in the settings menu and like I don't know where it is in the menu, I just want Siri to go find it and do it. That's like my, my number one thing.

0:42:50 - Abrar Al-Heeti
And that's kind of what the end goal is supposed to be, and that's essentially what Samsung has been promoting with its Galaxy S25, for example, is, Gemini can really be your assistant and Galaxy AI can really kind of help to facilitate a lot of those tasks, help you find things in your settings, help you turn things on and off, and so that really brings up the question of you know, we know Apple has power because of what it is and because of its hardware and because of its software and because of all that, how much of that is enough to keep it at the top as companies like Samsung and Google roll out things where they do have those supercharged devices devices.

When I was testing the S25, I don't tend to want to rely on AI very much for a lot of things, but I obviously did because I wanted to test Gemini and I actually grew quite fond of it. I loved the fact that I could if I had a question, and I wanted something a bit more detailed. I used it to figure out how to unclog my bathroom sink and I was like, oh wow, I would never use the current Google assistant to do that, Cause I don't. I think it would just surface random things, but Gemini could like talk me through it. So so I think there is a value in that eventually coming out to the iPhone and doing exactly what you have proposed would actually be helpful.

0:44:10 - Emily Forlini
Yeah they. I think they said the first features for the new Siri will arrive this fall, so they made a lot speaking of timelines shifting. Tesla does a lot. I mean, they said 2025, then they said 2026, then this one report data point way out, there was like 2027. And now they've brought it back to fall 2025. So I don't think it'll be the whole shebang, but they'll hopefully do something.

0:44:36 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, so apparently, yeah, hopefully, it would be something that rolls out with iOS 19. But even if iOS 19 comes out in the fall, at what point? Again doesn't mean the latest Apple intelligence feature has to drop at the same time. At what point will that happen? Whether it's later this year or early next year, but yeah, I think it'll be. Let's see what happens first, the cyber cab or a smarter Siri? But or you say it, Emily, what's our?

0:45:05 - Emily Forlini
keyword of the day Drink every time you hear Reboven.

0:45:09 - Abrar Al-Heeti
There we go. Well, Emily, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today and talk about the Reboven and everything else. Where can people go to follow you and your amazing work?

0:45:23 - Emily Forlini
Yeah, so you can follow me. The two platforms I'm on most right now are TikTok and Blue Sky, but you can always find me at PCMag. It just Emily Forlini is pretty much my name across everything, so I would love it if you followed me and we could connect on there.

0:45:36 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Fantastic. Yes, please do that. Thank you again. So much for joining us, All right. Thank you All right. Coming up next we will be talking about the new Motorola Razors, but first another word from Mikah.

0:45:48 - Mikah Sargent
One more time of me butting in here. I want to thank once again Emily and thank you Abrar, both of you for being on the show this week and, of course, thank you, John for the work you do on the show. I wanted to remind all of you out there about Club Twit at twit.tv/clubtwit for just $7 a month or now we have $84 a year plans back you can become a member of Club Twit and if you've been thinking about it but you're not sure, don't forget, we've got a two-week free trial. twit.tv/clubtwit. When you head there, when you sign up, you'll get access to all of our shows ad-free. You'll get access to the Twit+ bonus feed that has extra content you won't find anywhere else behind the scenes before the show, after the show special Club Twit members and those of us here at Twit, plus some special events that you don't get to see elsewhere.

We've got the AI user group. We've got my Mikah's Crafting Corner. We've got Coffee Time. We have some great live events coming up where we'll be talking about those. Leo and I are going to be hosting WWDC, the watch party in the club. All of that is only available to you if you are a member of Club Twit, so if you've yet to sign up, head there now. twit.tv/clubtwit. Thanks so much, and let's head back to the show.

0:47:05 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Thank you so much, Mikah. Now I would like to welcome my next guest, who also happens to be my colleague over at CNET, Mike Sorrentino, to talk about Motorola's new Razer phones. Mike, how are you?

0:47:16 - Mike Sorrentino
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. How are you all doing?

0:47:19 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I'm doing good. I mean, you have had a busy couple days. You've been covering this phone launch and I want to hear all about it. So, first off, I want you to give us a breakdown of the three phones that Motorola announced today.

0:47:32 - Mike Sorrentino
So Motorola announced their now three phone wide Razr line. They brought back the standard Razr at $700, the Razr Plus also at $1,000, as it was before, but now the new one is the Razr Ultra, a $1,300 Razer, definitely the most expensive Razer they currently have. I almost said the most expensive Razer ever, but then I remembered when it first launched, right. But this Razer comes in, has a very big 7-inch screen. When unfolded it has a 4-inch cover screen which is similar to the Razer Plus from last year. What I like the most, though, is that Motorola overseas has been using different materials for their phones, and the Razer Ultra gets a wood option. I believe they call it Pantone Mountain Trail, but my favorite is one called Pantone Scarab, which is made with a dark Alcantara fabric.

0:48:37 - Abrar Al-Heeti
That sounds very fancy yeah it's from Italy.

0:48:41 - Mike Sorrentino
When I met with the representative, it is partly the fabric and vegan leather, and there's some stitching involved in the middle as well. That helps create a two-tone on the back. It reminded me a little bit of the brief time that Apple did fine woven that people didn't like.

But, in this case, even though when I was on the demo room it was picking up dust like crazy, but I didn't really mind that. It actually kind of gave it character to me. I love the optimism. Yeah, we'll see how it holds up in a beach situation, I don't know. But yeah, no, Motorola appears to be taking on a similar role as what Samsung has done with the Galaxy line creating a base, a better and best if you want to throw them all the money possible, but it's a very expensive proposition.

Most phones that cost this much they're getting now, from Google and Samsung, seven years of support. Oneplus, depending on the phone, has roughly five-ish. Motorola is providing three years of major software updates and four years of security updates. In this price range that's quite low, but Motorola does appear to be taking more of a fashion-forward approach. So perhaps this customer base doesn't plan on holding their phone for very long, which is, in this tariff economy, a weird thing to be thinking about. I would like my LeTronx to last as long as possible, but it's trendy, it's cool, it looks different and it's really just in America anyway, Motorola and Samsung doing this flip style form factor.

0:50:18 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Absolutely, and so you mentioned that $1,300 price. If I recall correctly, the Galaxy Z Flip 6 is about $1,100 as a starting price. So what do you think would compel somebody to buy the Razer Ultra versus the Z Flip 6?

0:50:33 - Mike Sorrentino
So one of the things Razer Ultra has is Motorola put it as it's, the first flip phone with a triple 50 megapixel camera system. That defines specifically as on the rear camera side, a main wide and ultra wide, both at 50. And the selfie camera on the inside is also 50. So better cameras, but after that I do think it's probably the style element of it. It's also spec'd on the inside. Excuse me, on a technical level there is 16 gigs of memory and on storage, 512 gigs or one terabyte options. So at least if you're spending this much, you are getting as much room on the inside. And it's also running on the Snapdragon 8 Elite processor that we're seeing in other flagship phones, like the Galaxy S25 line, like OnePlus. But I do think with the materials and such, motorola is definitely going on.

A more fashion angle, this time in style, which fits the Razer line historically has been about fashion the famous photo of Paris Hilton using the Razor phone from back in the early 2000s and such. So it's luxury. It's perhaps jewelry Unrelated to the Razors. Motorola announced the Moto Buds Open, and they're earbuds that have Swarovski pronunciation wise is tough on me on this one.

Yes, the swarovski yeah and uh yeah, no, I mean it's a different time right now. Pardon if you're hearing colleagues laughing, it's a party there. Uh, yeah, but yeah, I know it was interesting because, like when I attending the event, the press event, there was definitely a heavy focus on the Pantone partnership, which extends to both the color selections and the screen grading and photography, and so it's a bit different in that, like, maybe other brands are seeing more of a tech focus, a more here's how things look focused, but in this case it's a little bit more about the way the phone itself looks yeah, and it's the legacy, right, it's, it's the legacy of the razor and the comeback there.

0:52:42 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Also, the fact that you bring up the cameras and the storage space is interesting, because I mentioned earlier with um, with Emily, but you know, we have a, we have a cnet survey that came out last year that I think hopefully we update related to what people really care about, whether it's AI or battery or storage, and battery and storage definitely far surpassed the importance of anything else. And so the fact that you get that quality here, which is interesting, because even the Galaxy, the foldables whether it's the flip or the fold or the whole focus there is also, okay, the camera quality, and that's trickier to do in a foldable format, but to think that you know Motorola is stepping it up there is really interesting too. So I'm curious how people will pick up on that. But we can't talk about this phone without also talking about AI, and there's some Moto AI features here too. So if that is something somebody is interested in, what will they get with these phones?

0:53:38 - Mike Sorrentino
So Motorola is doing a little bit of a different strategy than other companies when it comes to AI. Whereas we're seeing Apple and Samsung lean heavily on their own AI products, motorola has a variable Swiss army knife of AI partners going on. Perplexity is a major partner on the Razr and, in addition to being pre-installed on the phone, motorola's Moto AI will be connecting directly into that and other partners, depending on what the needs are. When the assistant is summoned, there's a Moto AI key on these phones and when, if you were to ask it, for instance, like I'm doing vacation planning, you could start giving it a little bit of information and then it will use perplexity and use the other partnerships, which include Meta's, llama, microsoft Co-Pilot and Google Gemini, to research what you're asking about.

And the example they provided during the press preview was planning a funfetti themed birthday party and it began with planning things like the food and the decorations.

But Motorola one of Motorola's more fun AI features involves generating a playlist off what's on your screen or what photos you have, and they showed it, creating a quick playlist that can be used for a party. A Motorola rep told me that that playlist feature is currently partnered with Amazon, but you could use it to generate the playlist and make up the playlist in Spotify or whatever other music service you would like. So there's still some gimmicks going on with AI, for sure, but it's interesting to see this approach of, instead of leaning entirely on the company itself, that it's like let's see what. So the Lama AI is going to be in charge of notification summaries, which we are seeing on other phones, but it's interesting to see that it's not Motorola itself leaning completely on itself for that. And then Motorola teased there'll be more to come in terms of what its co-pilot partnership will look like, but for now you can just say ask co-pilot XYZ thing and it'll provide you a response from that one.

0:55:50 - Abrar Al-Heeti
That is interesting how many partnerships they have there. It feels like not putting all your eggs in one basket, which is probably smart.

0:55:57 - Mike Sorrentino
Especially when it's this early on and we still don't know what people want to use AI for.

0:56:03 - Abrar Al-Heeti
That's exactly right and you, you know, you obviously had some hands-on time with these phones and there's there's three versions and obviously budget is going to be one of the biggest determinants for what phone somebody chooses. But was there one that you were particularly gravitating towards or what you would tell people if they're thinking about buying one of these phones, what to kind of keep in mind?

0:56:22 - Mike Sorrentino
So at CNET I tend to do the more value-focused, lower-cost phones honestly, and I actually was really more into the cheapest phone because it was a bit smaller. It does use the same design that Motorola has used since the 2023 Razr Plus, where it's a smaller, 3.6-inch cover screen. But all three phones, when I unfolded them, feel massive. When unfolded, the standard Razr and Razr Plus have a 6.9-inch screen. The Razr Ultra has a 7-inch screen and, yeah, it's the biggest but the tiniest bit more. All three.

When you move, when you lift them open, I could easily see them being a two-handed device because of how tall the screen is. Right when I'm great for, I would imagine, great for movies and games. I will actually test the phones to find out, but it was pretty easy to imagine how, when unfolded, that'll be good. And then when it was closed, I actually kind of wished it was a smidge taller, because I can easily see me texting when it's closed and looking at quick things, but I almost like if I wanted to read content on it, I kind of want it to be a little bit taller, but I guess that's what unfolding is supposed to be for.

0:57:28 - Abrar Al-Heeti
I know, I totally feel you because I tested the baseliner last year and I felt the same way where you need to kind of quickly send a text or you know you could do it on the cover screen and it was helpful, but oftentimes you need that more, that bigger space, and that's again. Yeah, that's what opening the phone is for, but it is helpful to have that kind of that small cover screen there for quick things. But also, like speaking of price, I'm actually surprised that the prices remained the same for the Razr and the Razr Plus, especially in light of, you know, tariffs and all that uncertainty. There have been some companies that you know haven't necessarily shared if or when their prices will go up. But this is interesting that Motorola was like no, these are going to be the prices. Did they share anything else about that?

0:58:10 - Mike Sorrentino
They didn't give specifics related exactly to the price point. Else about that. They didn't give specifics related exactly to the price point, but they did say that all three phones are getting a titanium hinge that Motorola says will allow it to withstand 35% more folds than last year's. So even though the Razr Plus, especially spec-wise, was nearly identical to last year's, and the cheaper Razr is getting a processor bump. But when it comes to other specs we'll have to test to see the difference, because on a specs basis it does appear very similar. But durability when it comes to a foldable phone is key and, I think, one of the questionable areas right now when it comes to considering if it's the right phone for you, because of the millions upon millions of situations that all of us take our phones to.

0:58:56 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean that was going to be. The other piece of it is how different are these phones? So if you have a previous, you know last year's version, you're probably not going to want to upgrade.

But who do you think is? Because I've been thinking about the general foldables category and you know again, we have foldables from Samsung and you know Pixel has book style foldables, and Oppo and there are other companies that are tapping into that but they still feel a little gimmicky, is kind of intense. But you know what I mean. It's not something that maybe occurs to people as a practical choice, unless they want to have a little bit of fun with their tech, and yet companies like Samsung and Motorola continue to have these annual releases and so clearly enough people are interested. Do you think this is something that foldables will become more mainstream, especially as we hear all these rumors about Apple eventually releasing its own foldable? Or do you see this as more kind of a niche thing where maybe just people who are interested in having that whether it's that fashion forward piece or that fun piece of tech is that just going to kind of remain the audience?

1:00:02 - Mike Sorrentino
So, purely from my perspective, I think it's just price is the big barrier here.

I think there's a lot of interest in this style of phone between the legacy of it, but also I have friends who wish they could buy a smaller four-inch phone, and this is one method to have a four-inch phone but let it unfold into a more traditional style. But right now there isn't a $500 version of this phone. There is, even though there is a lower cost Razr at $700, and there's some rumors that Samsung might be doing an FE version of the Flip that I've been seeing. But until we get to a more what I consider mainstream price, which I do think is the $500 or under category, it's definitely more of a luxury item you can. For people who are curious, you can find renewed versions of many of the flip phones from the last three years on sites like Amazon and other refurbished sites at under $500. It's just, you know. I think people would like to try to be able to try out a new device, especially one with the moving parts of a flip phone, but at a lower price, which we're just still not quite there yet.

1:01:18 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yeah, absolutely, although, yeah, that $700 price surprised me last year and continues to surprise me this year of, okay, this is a good starting point for somebody who maybe wants to try this out but isn't willing to put $1,000 plus on the um. So, um, so yeah, it is. Uh, we'll see if those, if those prices drop. But yeah, I'm really curious, uh, if and when apple take has its own spin on it and if that kind of affects that, that mainstream angle, if the apple effect uh kicks in the us and apple.

1:01:48 - Mike Sorrentino
Um, I mean, I've definitely heard people say when they looked at a samsung flip phone go, I wish there was an iPhone version.

1:01:55 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Yes, that's always the answer. And then you're allowed to buy other products. Yeah, it's possible. Well, mike, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. It means a lot. I know you've been been swamped, but if people want to follow your work, where can they go to do so?

1:02:09 - Mike Sorrentino
You can definitely check out my work and Abrar's work at CNET and at least X or social media wise, and my handle is MikeJSorrentino as well.

1:02:19 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Wonderful. Thank you for joining me on here. Good to talk to you and I'm sure I'll talk to you back on Slack.

1:02:25 - Mike Sorrentino
Thank you all. Thank you so much for having me.

1:02:28 - Abrar Al-Heeti
Thank you, and that is it for this episode of Tech News Weekly. This show publishes every Thursday at twit.tv/tnw, so you can go there to subscribe to the show in both audio and video formats. And if you'd like to follow me, you can check out my work on cnet.com or follow me on Instagram @abraralheeti, or on TikTok, also @abraralheeti, and I'm also occasionally on X @alheeti_3. Thank you so much for tuning in. Mikah will be back next week and, funny enough, I will actually be joining him as a guest, so I'm looking forward to that. Bye for now.

1:03:04 - Leo Laporte
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