Tech News Weekly 283 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

Jason Howell (00:00:00):
Coming up next on Tech News Weekly, it's me, Jason Howell sitting next to me. It's Mikah Sergeant, and we have a couple of awesome interviews and a couple stories of the week. That's what we do around here. First of all, we start with the Protecting Kids on Social Media Act, which is here to protect kids from social media. Apparently, Shoshana Weisman from R Street Institute has thoughts on that. Amazon apparently killing its Halo division, but why Mikah dives into that, mark Gurman from Bloomberg joins once again to go even deeper on Apple's VR headset ambitions. And finally, Colorado passed a huge right to repair law that John Deere doesn't like very much. All that more. Coming up next on Tech News Weekly

V.O. (00:00:45):
Podcasts you love from people you trust.

(00:00:49):
This is tweeted.

Jason Howell (00:00:53):
This is Tech News Weekly episode 283, recorded Thursday, April 27th, 2023. This episode of Tech News Weekly is brought to you by Dell Client Solutions devices, orchestrated by the experts at C D W, which deliver a more personalized user experience with adaptive AI-based software that boosts collaboration. Wherever your team works, learn more at cdw.com/dell client.

Mikah Sargent (00:01:21):
Hello and welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show wherever week we talk to and about the people making and breaking the tech news. I am one of your hosts. Mikah, Sergeant.

Jason Howell (00:01:31):
I'm the other guy. Jason Howell. How's it going, Mikah? It's

Mikah Sargent (00:01:33):
Going somewhat well.

Jason Howell (00:01:35):
Swimmingly.

Mikah Sargent (00:01:36):
Swimmingly. We were talking, I'm swimming.

Jason Howell (00:01:38):
Swimming. Allergies.

Mikah Sargent (00:01:39):
Allergies. Thank you. I didn't wanna use a worse word there short, so

Jason Howell (00:01:42):
Thank

Mikah Sargent (00:01:43):
You for filling that in.

Jason Howell (00:01:43):
Yeah, I, I feel you. I I'm right there with you. It's beautiful outside, but it comes at a price this early in the season, so Yes. So we're gonna, but we're gonna power through. That's what we do here at Tech News Weekly. We put our allergies on the, on the shelf <laugh>, and we talk about technology. So let's dive in. A new bill unveiled yesterday that seeks to set a minimum age in the us, uh, in here in the United States for social media use. And as you can imagine, something this big is never cut and dry <laugh>. So I invited Shoshana Weissman head at R Street Institute, and, uh, just awesome Twitterer, uh, to share her thoughts on this. Bill. Welcome to the show, Shoshana.

Mikah Sargent (00:02:25):
Thank you so much for having me.

Jason Howell (00:02:27):
Yeah, it's great to get you on. We've had you on, uh, TWiT and a few other shows a a couple of times, and I just always really enjoy it when you're on the network. So I was like, gotta get show Sean on the, on the show today. So thank you. Um, so let's start with the basics of the draft Bill. You and the, and the reason that I, that I brought you on is because I was really intrigued by, um, your words that you shared on Twitter about this. You certainly have opinions, uh, but before we get to kind of like your thoughts on, on the, on how this is shaped and everything, let's start with the basics. So it's called the Protecting Kids on Social Media Act. What is it seeking to protect kids from? Exactly.

Shoshana Weissmann (00:03:05):
Sure. Yeah. So basically it doesn't say what it's trying to protect kids from, which is kind of, I mean, that's, that's legislation. I think the press release had a little bit more in there. It's a general, people are concerned about kids on social media. I'm sympathetic to some of the concerns, even though I do think some of them are overblown. Um, there's also a lot of exemptions, so it would apply to Twitter, but not Zocdoc, like review sites are kind of exempt. Amazon any, uh, uh, sites that are basically for e-commerce or exempt. And the way they crafted it is, it's fairly solid. There's going to be some discrepancy about what's included, but, um, clear social media versus e-commerce sites, you know, social media versus review sites. Those are pretty, those are pretty different. But I always get such a kick out of, uh, legislation that carves out video games because that was a tech panic 20 or 30 years ago.

(00:03:52):
It's, you know, that's kind of, everyone's chill with video games now, which is always just kind of funny to see tech tech panic move to tech panic, <laugh>. Um, and the basic of it is that they wanna verify age for kids using social media. Um, I, I, uh, and it would also include PornHub because, uh, companies like PornHub allow users to share video. It's, it's functionally a social media site in most ways. Um, but other legislation would not have applied to it, which is always kind of funny because, you know, that's a part of where the concern comes from. And, um, the basic thing is it's it's age verification. They want parents to verify age of teenage users. And, um, the big difference with this, as opposed to many other of the state level bills, is that they create an age verification system through it.

(00:04:36):
Or they, they create the thing that will create it, and they have a lot of principles that go with it. Um, but there will be a lot of incentive to use it because companies can create their own stuff, but if they create their own method for age verification, it's subject to the reasonable standard, which is pretty yolo. Like that can mean a lot of different things, <laugh>. Yeah. But if they go with the government system, then it's a safe harbor. So there's a lot of incentive for companies to just say, we'll, just use your system.

Jason Howell (00:05:01):
Interesting. So, and this is early on, so we don't really know exactly how any of this would really be implemented, right? Like, uh, is this laying out specific rules for this <laugh>, it's interesting that you pointed out for the social media platforms that it deems to be social media, even though there are probably some that would be qualified as social media that aren't included here. Like what are the exact rules that this would, uh, this would hold them to?

Shoshana Weissmann (00:05:30):
Yeah, the top line rule is one, there's actually a couple of funny ones. So I'll start with one of the early ones in there. Uh, you can't use algorithms for kids. Like kids cannot be shown content, uh, through algorithms. But as many listeners know, time ordered is an algorithm, and it does not exclude that. It only excludes like showing ads related to content related to like the content, not to the user, uh, for kids. But it doesn't exclude basic algorithms. So it bans math. I know it doesn't intend to do that, but the law, I

Jason Howell (00:06:01):
Mean, that is algorithm, right? Algorithm is essentially math <laugh>, it's coded math. No, math. Math. So like, depending on where you draw those lines, it could be anything, you know, on a computer, <laugh>.

Shoshana Weissmann (00:06:11):
Yeah. And as written it means math, it means time ordered, it means anything except just data. So that in itself, it's a common problem I see in legislation. I just chats in fairness often writes more solid legislation, even if I think it's wrong and has holes, he generally is a little bit better on, on that kind of stuff. So it's surprising. And then the rest of it is just age verification. And all it says is you have to verify age of users of every user on the social media site. There's time limits on when exactly it has to start from enactment. Um, but you will have to verify the, the age of different users. And, um, either you do it in a reasonable way or you do it through the government's way. And if the government gives you that option, you're going to use the government's way

Jason Howell (00:06:54):
Reasonable love, love that, you know, <laugh>, if that's the terminology, it's like, okay, well, how, how exactly do you define that? I mean, age verification. Like we've seen age verification. It's a little pop-up that says, are you 18 years old? Or whatever. And all you have to do is, is Y or N. Um, and of course everyone just hits y but, uh, like what is different about the age verification that they're proposing here? Is this like a, a, like a federal ID system? Some something that's a lot more integrated than just taking your word for it?

Shoshana Weissmann (00:07:29):
Yeah. And that's what all this new age verification legislation does. Other legislation might say, uh, like the first version of Utah's bill was like, you have to up upload a government ID and your home address Wow. To TikTok, which is super fun because Utah banned TikTok from government devices because of data security reasons. So like, hmm, maybe like you think twice about that. Um, the, the, the final bill in Utah is a lot more like this and it defers to the government on exactly how to do it, which I don't love. Because if you can't figure it out in the legislative process and you haven't done that research, then you're just enacting whatever will be will be. And this kind of does the same thing because while it allows alternate methods, um, with the standard they have, it's going to be government ID or a biometric, like face scanning.

(00:08:14):
That's the, the whole problem. Like France wanted to do age verification more than anyone and their own data, like department put out a report saying, Hey, there's no way to do this while protecting privacy. We want there to be, and we encourage people to invent away, but if you're going to get accu accuracy, you're going to violate privacy. And if you don't violate privacy, you won't get accuracy. So when you put in that standard, you're going to violate privacy. There are people who are short can happen and who think technology exists, but I haven't seen it. Um, and no one I trust has seen that. Um, and even the something like the age verification, basically the, the, the group, the trade association of the people who wanna do this stuff are saying there's like, we can scan your and not keep the scans. That'll be great. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So

Jason Howell (00:08:58):
That'll

Shoshana Weissmann (00:08:58):
Go over the whole problem is the technology they want doesn't exist.

Jason Howell (00:09:02):
Interesting. Okay. I mean, I'm, I'm just trying to think of what, like, what else, what other methods could actually be implemented? Are any privacy conscious groups that you know of saying, look, we appreciate what this is trying to do, or efforts like these are trying to do, but we also see huge holes in, you know, this idea of, of verification with an ID or biometrics. This is a way to do it responsibly. Like, do we even know of it, like a responsible way to do this? That, that does kind of satisfy both, both sides of things, like makes things more secure and respects our data and our privacy. I mean, it seems like they're, yeah, they're at opposition with each other. That's almost impossible. And they

Shoshana Weissmann (00:09:43):
Are, like France wants it more than anyone. They're going ahead with it while acknowledging the massive problems, which, you know, I can respect, even if I think it's wrong, at least they're being honest that this doesn't exist in the form we wanted in. It's, uh, you know, we're gonna have to take it in its imperfect form. And that's a fine stance. I, I'll disagree with it, but it's an honest stance. But the exact problem is what you're getting to. There isn't the technology that we wish there was mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and if there was, I'd be a lot more open to a lot of things here. Like if you could use that to verify age in a fully privacy respecting way before someone was able to access PornHub or something like that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I wouldn't have an issue with that. With some sites I would, but not that kind of stuff and certain other things. But the problem is that just doesn't exist. You know, if someone, if you go in person somewhere to get cigarettes or to buy, you know, pornogra, uh, videos or whatever, you can have someone look at your ID and never keep a record of it. But you can't do that online. Mm-hmm.

Jason Howell (00:10:37):
Yeah. That's interesting. So what, what kind of penalties does a, uh, what one of these defined, uh, social media companies face if, you know, if if this bill is, you know, brought into law and, um, they fail to adhere to it, what, what are the penalties? Does it specify that?

Shoshana Weissmann (00:10:56):
Yeah, it's many thousands of dollars and it's, uh, it has its own formula for calculating it. It's something like the number of users affected versus the number of violations, something to that effect that's pretty common for this kind of stuff. Often they'll just set it at, you know, many thousands of dollars. But this has an equation, but the penalties aren't as, you know, effective as like the, the whole problem is you can't have these penalties for something that's an impossible task. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, or that's going to force these companies to violate their user's privacy because, you know, this is creating just massive honeypots for hackers. If they're maintaining this information. And to its credit, the legislation discourages people from maintaining the age verification information. They're saying, you know, you don't have to maintain it. You can find other ways to, uh, verify, but it's all a Lincoln a nod, because if they're not using the government method, they're of course going to maintain that information to prove compliance.

(00:11:48):
Um, and then the government can get warrants to look for it. Because right now we do have real true anonymity online. People will tip their hands by tweeting their personal information or by leaving other traces of who they are. You know, anonymity isn't perfect, but this really gets rid of that. If, um, you know, you see these provisions in the law that says something like, uh, you know, the, the government cannot access the age verification information in order to link specific people to specific accounts unless there's a warrant. But government gets hacked a lot and government likes personal information a lot. Like they violate the Fourth Amendment all the time. Like, I don't trust that. Um, and again, it's the whole problem with this law is that it's not workable while protecting people's rights. Um, and on all of this, in addition to violating the First Amendment right to anonymous speech, like, you know, Federalist papers, you know? Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:12:38):
Yeah. Okay. So then, given that, given, given your perspective that you just shared, do you think this has, like, are, are we gonna see this go into law, uh, like likely, uh, likelihood of this going into law at some point? And, you know, are there revisions that you would like to see that that would kind of win you over as far as this is concerned?

Shoshana Weissmann (00:13:00):
So I think there are things they could do to make it better, but the, the core problem is the technology they want doesn't exist. And yeah. That, you know, you can't fix that. Um, if the technology one day does exist, I'd be willing to talk further and give more ideas and, you know, work on this. But there are things they could make it better, such as defining algorithm as not everything like exempting some math from algorithm, the definition, but, um, but yeah, the, the thing they want doesn't exist. And there, there's, there is rational desire to protect kids from certain content, for sure. But, um, I think this goes way too far. And the problem is like, there is a lot of desire to protect kids from stuff online, no matter the costs. And I think this is what this is, and because of that, I think you could see it going to law. Not that I'm certain it will, I, I think some people might take a look at this and get worried. People like Ron Wyden in the Senate, who is the father of Section two 30, and also very interested in privacy protection, but there's a lot of, you know, let's protect the kids and honest, honest, uh, stuff there. But it's, it's just not a good bill and it's not workable, but it might be enacted.

Jason Howell (00:14:05):
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, Shaana always a pleasure to get you on the network and, uh, a pleasure in this case to have the chance to talk with you when you're on the network. So thank you for hopping on today and sharing your thoughts on this bill. If people wanna follow the work that you and your organization are doing, tell 'em little bit about it real quick.

Shoshana Weissmann (00:14:23):
Sure. Well, thank you so much for having me. I love the network. You guys are such nerds, and it's nice to talk to other nerds, <laugh>. Um, but, um, hey, yeah, <laugh>, I'm at Senator Shoshana on Twitter for as long as it exists, and we're also at R s I on Twitter for that same amount of time. And, uh, you can see all our work@rstra.org.

Jason Howell (00:14:41):
Right on. Thank you, Shoshana. It's been a pleasure. We'll talk to you soon, <laugh>. All right, take care. All right. Coming up, uh, Amazon's halo apparently shutting down. What does it mean? <laugh>? Mikah's gonna tell us, but first, this episode of Tek News Weekly is brought to you by Dell Client Solutions devices orchestrated by the experts at C D W. The people at C D W, they get that your unique workforce has unique needs, uh, for their devices, especially as they continue with hybrid work. It's a challenge, of course, for it to supply devices that can meet everyone's needs wherever they work, uh, so that they can stay connected throughout the day. Well, luckily, C D W can help custom configured Dell client solutions devices for more personalized user experience. And what this means is that your workforce gets adaptability for performance with AI-based software that learns how your team works and optimizes workflows.

(00:15:40):
And then check this out, Dell client solutions devices have intelligent noise detection and cancellation along with high quality video that adjusts with your lighting, which is pretty amazing. This fleet of devices is really great because wherever your team works, it's built in security response to malicious attacks, providing a secure way to boost collaboration and productivity from anywhere. When it comes to seamless experiences, Dell Systems makes adaptive performance possible. CDW makes it powerful. You can learn more about everything than we've talked about at cdw.com/dell client. Go there. cdw.com/dell client. We thank them for their support of Tech News Weekly. All right. Not sure I had a halo in my house, but if I did, I'd be pretty bummed.

Mikah Sargent (00:16:30):
Yeah. So Amazon tried to get into the wearable game. I think along with, uh, looking at the market and seeing that the wearables are a very popular category. Um, due to the long history of Fitbit and the sort of meteoric rise of the Apple Watch, it is hard to break into the wearable fitness health category mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, with the introduction of a new device. And we've only seen a few companies able to come anywhere near that by tackling different, um, ideas. So the Aura Ring is a good example of that, where instead of having a wrist watch or some sort of thing that straps under your wrist, it's a ring mm-hmm. <affirmative> that can track your movement into a bunch of other things. And so it did kind of find a new little nook that it could, uh, interest and have people go, oh yeah, this is something that, that I, that I want.

(00:17:30):
But with Amazon and the introduction of the Halo Band, the Halo view, and then later the halo rise, um, for the most part what we saw was just instance after instance of products that already existed on the market, uh, in other places. And I, I, I honestly don't know, um, in, in trying to understand Amazon's idea here, if it was, well, for the people who like Amazon, then now they can have a wearable from Amazon. I really don't. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's hard for me to understand the, the sort of thinking behind it. Or maybe it was just, well, we can sell a really inexpensive or somewhat inexpensive device and at least have some of the market cornered, but, well,

Jason Howell (00:18:14):
It seems like Amazon likes to throw spaghetti at the walls. They do, you know, as far as kind of their hardware, they have that, that moment, the time of year, I don't know if they still do this, where suddenly they just unload like an insane amount of these, like yes, new items, these new tech gadgets, and half of 'em you're like, really <laugh>? Like, someone's gonna buy that, or whatever, you know? And I'm sure some of them survive and some of them don't.

Mikah Sargent (00:18:34):
Absolutely. And I think that that was also a time of abundance. Yeah. Um, yeah, true. They, the last, I think the last two years now, they have not done that. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah. It used to be the, I'm like, I still, I have at home a smart, um, it's a, it's a sort of toaster oven that Amazon made at one point that they stopped selling shortly after they started making it still works great. It's awesome. But that was one of the, one of many products that they made, uh, where they were just trying to see what worked. Cuz at the time Yeah. They, they were able to mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah, I think this was part of that release for sure. But they did continue down the Halo brand, um, with the halo view and the halo rise. The halo rise being a smart alarm, it sort of sat next to your bed mm-hmm.

(00:19:19):
<affirmative>, and it was kind of a domed light. And so it would do the sort of wake up to the daylight kind of idea, while it was also being a smart alarm that, uh, tracked your sleep. But Google was already doing that with its Google. Um, the, the Nest hub. The Nest hub without a camera that would use the solely radar system to track your sleep. And then you could also have the display sort of, uh, change color temperature and lighten up the room to provide that smart alarm. And then on, you know, these are all products that have, uh, some, uh, some kind of deeply rooted competitors. So I'm not surprised to hear that Amazon is going to as, uh, we are once to say in the tech world, shutter, it's Halo, division <laugh>. So, um, the Verge, uh, learned this independently, and then they did, um, they, they, they saw some emails, uh, from the VP of Smart Home and Health at the company.

(00:20:21):
And essentially, along with closing down the Halo program, they are also, uh, letting folks go, um, who worked in the Halo team. And they talk about how the, the division has faced significant headwinds, which for folks who don't know, means basically different, um, obstacles they face that have resulted in them not making as much money as they expected on something. So it's as if a wind is blowing at you and you from moving at your best pace forward. Um, I think it's a boat term originally, which, which would make sense. Um, and then also the fact that yes, it's an increasingly crowded segment and because of the uncertain economic environment, um, the company claims that there were customers who absolutely loved the Halo, uh, but they just don't see it as a, a category that's worth looking into in the long term. Uh, what's kind of cool is that if you did get an Amazon Halo device, um, there is a refund that the company is offering.

(00:21:24):
So this is, I find this to be one of those rare instances where a company, um, is going, even though we've got a subscription service and a purchase, which are two totally separate categories, um, when we wind this down, we will pay you back for having purchased the product in the first place. Mm-hmm. Usually it's just kind of like, well, we're getting rid of it. So Yeah. Really you don't have to pay anymore cuz you're not doing the subscription mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but we're not gonna pay you back for what you, what you purchased. That's nice. That's nice. Yeah. That is, that is a really good thing that they're doing for sure. Um, another thing is that the Halo band, the original, uh, halo Band, it was noted for having two features. One was that it would use your smartphone to do a, um, <laugh>. This is kind of, I think this is really goofy because they called it a 3D image or a 3D scan of your body, but essentially it was just look at your frame and then try to estimate, um, body fat based on just looking at your frame.

(00:22:32):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know how well it did that. Uh, and then the other thing that it did was it would listen to your tone of voice. So as you were communicating it would listen to how you were speaking and then try to provide feedback on, well, you were grouchy three times today, <laugh>. Um, and these were the times when you were grouchy. And it's actually, you know, then look at sort of data points and say you didn't get much sleep last night, you, uh, skipped breakfast. You're doing everything wrong, kid. Yeah. <laugh>. So no wonder why you're being angry at people. Quit yelling at me and I remember when it came out, everyone going great. So this thing's going to be constantly listening to me while it's on my wrist. No, thanks. And then also it's going to be policing my tone of voice.

(00:23:17):
No, thanks. Times two. Um, so I really think it was a miss from the, from the get-go, but here's what I find, uh, as kind of an interesting conversation about it, is we've got all of these different aspects, all of these factors that are at play here, and it's hard to narrow it down. Um, and obviously know for sure what is the ultimate cause mm-hmm. Of, of why the company chose to do this. Because we could go all the way back to the beginning and go, well, in the first place you made a product that nobody really wanted, uh, except for the people who bought it, of course, the few people who bought it. Yeah. Right. It could also be that the market is saturated and crowded. Uh, they could also be that the pandemic has resulted in you not having as much money as you had hoped by this point.

(00:24:08):
So you would've kept it going longer and then maybe it would've had a place. I mean, there are any number of reasons why, uh, this is the case. And I should also mention, I, this is, uh, anyone who's purchased the product within the last 12 months, uh, will get that refund. I don't, I don't wanna make it seem as if like, if you purchased it right when it launched and you've had that use of it for as long as you have that you're getting a refund, it's you purchased it in the last 12 months, uh, then you will get that refund. And then all, um, prepaid Halo subscription fees will be refunded and of course won't be charged anymore. Um, they are going to, along with shuttering the service, they are going to, um, basically make the devices stop working, break the devices on August 1st. And any data that's sort of stored in Amazon's, uh, servers will be deleted at that point. Um, you can go in are just

Jason Howell (00:25:00):
Bricked bricks. Yeah. I mean, because what, what can you actually do with them if they can't pull from the cloud? But that's just kind of like this, this ongoing reminder that of this cautionary

Mikah Sargent (00:25:09):
Don't detail don devices.

Jason Howell (00:25:10):
Yeah, exactly. Like you pay full price for a device and if the cloud service stops, that device is useless. It doesn't matter how well designed it was, how beautiful it is, it's on your, you know, on your bookshelf as a, as an item, a totem to remember <laugh>. Yeah. And that's all it

Mikah Sargent (00:25:29):
Is. That's so frustrating to me. It is

Jason Howell (00:25:31):
The very

Mikah Sargent (00:25:32):
Frustrating. I remember getting this really cool, there was a company that ended up going under, um, and they were making license plate frames that had a solar panel across the top and a battery inside and then a camera. And this was before, um, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, um, put in place a rule that said vehicles after X year, and I don't remember which year it is, have to have backup cameras. So this was still in the time of no backup cameras by the, like, as a required standard. And so I had a vehicle that was long before, uh, that time, and I was super pumped. I had a backup camera. And so you had the camera and everything in the frame, and then in your car you use the O B D two port to plug in this little dongle and it would then create like a little wifi network mm-hmm.

(00:26:23):
In your car that you'd connect to with, through the app. And then you'd be able to access the, the backup camera and use it. And it had some smarts that were built into it for, you know, object recognition and all that kind of thing. And it was beautifully designed. It was made by folks who you had worked at Apple, the engineers, uh, left and started their own company doing this. The ended up folding and unfortunately, um, it had a randomly generated password whenever you set it up for the wifi. And I did not write down that password anywhere. And so to this day, I could still be using it if I had that password. But the only way is to use the app. The app eventually got removed from the app store. Oh my God. And so now it's just this beautiful, like a really strong aluminum and the idea of having it, you know, contr or uh, powered by solar. It was just a, it's, and it's just sad. Yeah. It's just sad. I don't know. I don't need to hold onto it anymore. There's no reason for me to have it still, but I do still have it cuz I just am like, you know, one day I'm just gonna figure out how to hack this thing <laugh>.

Jason Howell (00:27:27):
Right.

Mikah Sargent (00:27:28):
So all of that's to say, I wouldn't be surprised if we see I fix it or a similar company mm-hmm. <affirmative> figure out how to do something with the Halo bands. Because when Amazon ended up, um, they, they used to make these and I thought they were great. These little, um, sort of lozenge shaped buttons and you, I think they were called dash buttons. Yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> were these remember physical little buttons and you, you'd order them for a specific product and then as you were running low, you push the button and it automatically orders that product and has it sent to you. I thought that was clever, but there was some issue regulation wise for them not to be able to do this. I don't really remember what it was. So they ended up closing this down and bricking those devices. But there were a few people who figured out how to hack them and turn them into just like, smart buttons.

(00:28:15):
And so you could just press it and have it do whatever you wanted it to do. Loved that. Um, I fix it did the same with the Pebble smartwatch, that company, uh, all but folded and they kept, um, that up through third party means we took, we had someone on the show to talk about that. Right. So I think if you have the opportunity to hold onto the Halo Band, if it's older than 12 months, you might hold onto it and see if, uh, some, some folks out there, some clever folks out there can figure out something else to do with it. Me even turning it into just a regular old fitness tracker. Yeah. That counts your steps, you know, now somebody's got a speedometer if they want it. So Yeah. We'll have to keep an eye on that.

Jason Howell (00:28:54):
It's hard to bring yourself to just throw something like that away. Yeah. You know, like, oh, well let's not support it anymore in, you know, in the recycling or in the trash or whatever. It's,

Mikah Sargent (00:29:02):
Especially if it's, it's always that hope. Like Yeah. It's, it's, yeah. It's so good. It's perfect. This was such a good idea. Yeah. <laugh>, this was something I could really get behind. Right.

Jason Howell (00:29:11):
Yeah. Frustrating

Mikah Sargent (00:29:12):
Aass. Alright, um, let us move right along. Um, if you have been, if you're a regular watcher of the show, then you'll recall last week when I had Mark Goman of Bloomberg on to talk about Apple's headset. And I ended up asking Mark a question, uh, where Mark got quiet for a moment and said, you know what, I'm actually writing up some information on that very question and it will be publishing soon. So if you'd like to have me back on again next week can talk about that even more. And I said, why not? So joining us again today is Mark Gervin of Bloomberg. Welcome back, back to the show, mark <laugh>.

Mark Gurman (00:29:52):
Thanks as always for having me. Glad to be here.

Mikah Sargent (00:29:54):
Glad to have you here. It's, uh, it's, it's, it's a new day and it's time to talk about the scattershot approach of Apple's ar vr headsets. I mean, we were just talking about Amazon as a company that was doing or has been known to do a bit of a spaghetti project or 50 and from, from your reporting, it kind of sounds like Apple is doing the same thing with its a R vr r headset. Can you talk a little bit about this approach to try to figure out, uh, who and how this this product will appeal to folks?

Mark Gurman (00:30:31):
Yeah, Mike, I mean, you kind of nailed it last week when you, when you asked me about it, it seems like they're adding every feature they can think of other than the kitchen sink and throwing it out there to see what's going to work. It's very similar to the approach they took with the Apple Watch. Right. Uh, the Apple Watch started off with a big focus on telling the time to, believe it or not, <laugh>, uh, a big focus on health and fitness, which worked out and also, uh, communications and sending someone your heartbeat. But they sort of reformatted that around, uh, notifications and, and health tracking and communication, uh, over the phone and such with lte. And I think you're gonna see something happen similar with the Apple headset, where it's gonna have essentially every feature you can think of from iOS and iPad os uh, some features for back os.

(00:31:14):
And, you know, even watch OS and TV os all blended together, uh, you're going to have new features like virtual reality based FaceTime. Uh, you'll be able to use the headset as a secondary display for your Mac. You'll be able to control it with an iPhone or iPad or Bluetooth keyboard. Uh, it'll basically have everything you can, you can think of. And I think over time the consumer will tell Apple, uh, based on their feedback Right. And the data they collect, what's being used, what's not being used, what should we refocus around, what should we market around. So I think it's gonna take them a couple years to really understand how people want to use, uh, this new platform.

Mikah Sargent (00:31:52):
Lemme ask you this from sort of an analysis perspective. When we look back at the Apple Watch, uh, that vision that they had for the Apple Watch, they made it very clear, it seemed like, uh, the design team and the, the sort of marketing team, everybody was, was in concert and, and figured out what it was going to be and really pitched it as that. And then as you know, you, you point out in this piece, as we've seen, um, over time, the, a lot of the, the extra stuff kind of fell off and it got honed. Do you think, and this is, this is the sort of analysis part of it, do you think that Apple learned from the way that the Apple Watch evolved over time and then took that approach and used it here in the, uh, upcoming ar vr headset? Or do we think that that was also the plan at the time that the Apple Watch? Was that first instance of the company going, we're gonna throw everything at you and see what sticks? Or was it kind of a, a surprise maybe that or, or, or a lesson learned that we're gonna wait and see what the customer thinks of it? Does that make sense? That question? I think

Mark Gurman (00:33:04):
Yeah, I totally, I think it's a mix of both. Okay. Right. I, I slightly agree with you and slightly disagree with you on the, uh, company being on the same page when it came to the Apple Watch. Right. Okay. I think the Apple Watch was an example of the company actually not being on the same page. And I think that's why you saw, uh, three different variations. I think that's why you saw the aluminum, stainless steel and the gold. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think anyone with the same mind that the company knew, the Gold Watch wasn't going to, uh, work out. I mean, it was a failure. They sold, you know, thousands of units of that, of that thing and they, and they canceled it after, uh, one year. Right. I think the stainless steel and aluminum track is very similar to what they're doing with the, uh, with the standard iPhones and the high-end iPhones.

(00:33:48):
So I think that makes sense. Um, and I think for the Apple headset, their goal was to find a killer set of apps and use cases for this device. Uh, and they certainly have found some cool use cases, but I don't think they know which ones are really gonna take off with consumers. I think when they went into the Apple Watch, they really did think that telling the time fitness and health and those personal communications, that intimate way they called it of communicating, I really think that they believed those were going to be the hit features. But over time they had to refocus the whole watch, uh, around fitness and around notifications. Right. And around calls and such. Um, and I think with the Apple headset, you're gonna see something play out similar, but then on the other hand, you really think about it and the iPhone, the iPad, the Mac, right.

(00:34:36):
Those devices are not focused devices. They can do anything you want them to do. Right. Right. And so I think the Apple headset could, you know, go into a similar way, but, you know, it's such a nascent category with so much confusion in the market, primarily thanks to Meta that I think Apple really needs to come out with some sort of focused approach about why you want this device. So, you know, it's possible just like the Apple watch, they'll start with three to five or even 10 use cases where they think people will want it and they'll sell it around that. Uh, my bet will be, the focuses will be, uh, gaming, productivity, uh, and communication. I think those are gonna be the three things they're gonna focus on. Uh, but I think content consumption, watching video is gonna be killer. Uh, I think the wellness stuff, it's gonna be a waste, but I think some people might think it makes a cool demo.

(00:35:25):
Yeah. Uh, I certainly think that, you know, the ultimate goal here, and this is gonna sound a little out there, but um, you know, imagine using this headset instead of your at work, right? Ah, and so I think that if Apple sells it as the future of the computer rather than as, you know, one piece of tech that you're using as part of your workflow, I think that actually could be quite compelling. You know, if they sell it as this is the Mac replacement, right? Uh, I think that could be kind of cool. So Wow. That, I'm very curious to see how they pitch it in the end.

Mikah Sargent (00:36:03):
Absolutely. And one thing that's kind of stuck with me, uh, in, in all of this is when you have a product that is going to be as expensive as this likely is to be, um, it does make you wonder, I I would imagine as you know, at Apple, just sort of trying to, to figure out the, the marketing, uh, for this product. You kind of have two options here because wh when you're talking about gaming, when you're talking about video conferencing, when you're talking about all of these, um, means of interaction, you are in many cases thinking about interacting with at least one other person, if not more. Right. And when you have a product this expensive, you can't necessarily expect that, you know, a mom and, and grandma and uncle and you are all going to be able to get one of these. Cuz I remember with the Apple watch the the Heartbeat thing that meant that the other person had to have an Apple watch too.

(00:37:00):
And that was the first time that the Apple Watch existed. So do you, when you, when you look at what's coming out and when you sort of think about the analysis, and I promise I won't hold you, uh, accountable if, if it, if the, if it ends up coming out a different way, but do you think that the company is going to try to focus on an individual use of the product? Or is this going to be about connecting with others in a new way where you can both meet in virtual space? Or will it be kind of like, no, this is what you can do and how you can be empowered in this space?

Mark Gurman (00:37:31):
I think it's gonna have to be both. Right? Your point is awesome. Um, <laugh>, okay, let's say I get one. Who am I gonna VR FaceTime with? Right? Right. So that's gonna be, uh, it's gonna be fascinating to see how that works out. I mean, over time that's gonna change, right? Yeah. And obviously you'll be able to be compatible with someone using an iPhone, right? Like you won't be able to only FaceTime, uh, between two headsets, right? You'll be able to do FaceTime between a headset and any other Apple device. Uh, but certainly they're gonna have to optimize iOS, iPad os et cetera to make use of that. And obviously the experience will be different, uh, on the headset. You know, what's gonna be a big part about the headset is freeform. It's gonna be a pretty central part of the headset, that Freeform app they came out with last year. Nobody understood why Apple wanted to come out with an app like that. Yeah. It's for the headset, right? Virtual whiteboards collaboration and, and the like. Yeah.

Mikah Sargent (00:38:28):
I have to say that was honestly the mo Well, okay. So, uh, the whiteboard system in the meta quests two was one of the most compelling, uh, aspects for me as a person who's not a big gamer. Um, I remember going into the virtual space and having this giant virtual, well actually it was an augmented, uh, reality, uh, whiteboard on my wall, and then I could turn back to my desk and have my keyboard showing up there and I could, you know, write on it reminded me of, uh, when I was in school, like an elementary school having, uh, those smartboards installed at some point and being able to, you know, have this gigantic wall that you could write on and change things and then have someone else join you in that space. So I find that incredibly compelling and I could see how that would be, uh, a killer feature potentially for, um, for Apple in, in this space.

(00:39:22):
Because think about two sort of the, I I'm sure they are the sort of initial purchasers, the, um, the, the folks who are happy to try version one. And a lot of times you are looking at folks who would be in these environments where collaboration and, and, and, you know, using a virtual whiteboard would be helpful. Um, I did wanna also touch on the, you mentioned, uh, knowing a little bit about the battery. Can you tell us about how Apple, uh, as far as, you know, is planning on powering the device and how that's a little different from what we've seen from other VR headsets?

Mark Gurman (00:40:02):
So the Quest, they have the battery built in, right? The Quest Pro has the battery in the back and sort of balances the whole thing. Uh, the Apple battery will be external, right? It'll be like, uh, the Mac, the MagSafe battery pack, uh, but about the size of, of, of an iPhone. Uh, a smaller iPhone I should say, uh, with sort of the shape of the MagSafe battery pack, a white pack rubberized, uh, you know, material on the exterior, you'll charge the battery pack with u sbc, charge that up, and then it'll connect over a cable that's attached to the battery pack that goes into the headset itself. The connector itself is magnetic, but you lock it in by twisting it so it doesn't come out while you're using it. Um, and then, you know, the battery pack should last two to three hours and such.

(00:40:48):
And every time you need to juice it up, you juice it up. And I'm sure you'll be able to buy, uh, extra battery packs. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's, it's annoying. Uh, apple made the decision, uh, for comfort and to reduce the weight, uh, of the headset. Um, it does have balance issues, right? This thing's not heavy, but you know, it's enough to, after watching a movie for an hour for it to be uncomfortable mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? And so I think that's something that's gonna have to be worked out over time. Maybe there'll be accessories to balance the weight. You know, you probably won't even weight distribution on both sides of your head, uh, with the headset. So, you know, I'm curious how this shakes out, you know, with many consumers using this thing

Mikah Sargent (00:41:30):
Last, so, oh, sorry. Continue.

Mark Gurman (00:41:32):
No, I think the last thing I think is a good idea actually to offset, uh, the, the, the battery, right? Because this is a Mac grade CPU inside, right? This is Mac grade technology. Would you really wanna put something as powerful as a MacBook Pro on your head? <laugh>, like the battery powering, right? Not, not really. Right. And so I think from a, uh, you know, a safety standpoint, I think it's good that the, the battery might explode in my pocket instead of in my face. Yeah.

Mikah Sargent (00:42:02):
Yeah. That's a good

Mark Gurman (00:42:03):
Point. Hopefully not either. Hopefully not either. I I, I have no reason to believe the battery would explode. I was just joking. Right? But right. Yes. Uh, traditionally you would want a battery in your pocket versus on the head.

Mikah Sargent (00:42:13):
Yeah. Even thinking about just the, the sort of comfort of, of heat <laugh>, uh, potential heat there. Heat

Mark Gurman (00:42:18):
Of course, because they, they did have, you know, quite a bit of overheating issues, uh, during development. And I think one of the things that inspired this shift in addition to weight and comfort, uh, was the overheating concerns.

Mikah Sargent (00:42:30):
Yeah. Makes sense. Uh, last thing I'll ask you, uh, when we look at the companies that have released headsets, um, a lot of times you see them release them and they make it out there and they last for a while, and then you kind of don't hear about them anymore. Uh, Microsoft with its HoloLens headset basically pivoted into very specific sort of corporate means of continuing the product. Uh, you even mentioned in your piece about, uh, meta's quests kind of ending up in nightstands in many cases. I don't use mine very often. Um, when we look at all of the, the, the lack of success in the space for a company like Apple, is there ever a decision of, do we just choose to scrap this idea even though we've invested money into it? Or is there sort of like a, a point at which you go, okay, well we've put this much money into it and by golly we've got our pride and we've got how, how much we've, we've worked on this and so we've, we're just gonna see if we can make it work. Or, I dunno, this is sort of a, a difficult question, but is it, is it about them still believing that they can, they can sort of make a dent in this space, um, because yeah, we haven't seen that that happen yet. So is Apple just, um, sort of has horse blinders on and is just going, well, maybe ours will go? Or do you think that they really do believe that what they've done is going to be different from what's already out there?

Mark Gurman (00:44:09):
It's a good question. Uh, absolutely. I think that they do believe that this is going to, to work out. And I'll, I'll put it this way, uh, to answer the earlier part of your question, I don't believe there is such thing as a point of no return, uh, at Apple. Okay. I think they have so much money, so many resources that, you know, up until the day of the announcement, they could cancel it and wipe away a decade worth of work and billions of dollars spent if they feel like this is going to be a disaster for them. Uh, you know, the car, they've gone so far without ever even officially confirming they're working on a car, right? And so, I, I don't think they're afraid to not launch something. I think the bigger fear is launching something that doesn't work out.

Mikah Sargent (00:44:56):
Yeah. Hmm. Makes sense. Well, mark Germin, I always appreciate your analysis. Uh, folks should definitely go subscribe to your newsletter if they want to follow you online and make sure they're staying up to date with all of your great work. Where should they go to do so?

Mark Gurman (00:45:11):
Please? Yeah. It's, uh, bloomberg.com/power on to subscribe. Have a special announcement actually coming this week, uh, in the newsletter. Um, and then twitter.com/uh, mark Irman, I'll see you there. And Mikah, looking forward to coming on again in the future. Absolutely. Thanks for having me as always.

Mikah Sargent (00:45:26):
Yeah. Thank you so much. All righty. Thank you Mark Gurman. Up next, we've got Jason Howles story of the week.

Jason Howell (00:45:35):
Yes, indeed. Um, so I will admit right off the top, my story of the week is tech adjacent. Okay. <laugh>.

(00:45:45):
But it's, but I'm happy to see kind of what, what is happening and where, where the story is at. So I thought I would just kind of talk about it cuz it definitely, this, this whole, uh, this ongoing thread about John Deere and it's, you know, right. To repair Yeah. The tractors and everything. This has been an ongoing thread for years now. It's certainly been on the network and I, and I know it comes up when we talk about right to repair of other things and not just farm equipment and tractors. So, Colorado, uh, made history this week. They passed the nation's first right, to repair state law, uh, pertaining to farming equipment. Colorado governor, uh, governor Jared Pullis signed the bill into law on Tuesday. It was, uh, bipartisan legislation. So had, um, you know, had folks on, on both sides, um, really coming together to make this happen, at least in the state of Colorado under the new law.

(00:46:35):
Failure to support repair will be considered deceptive trade practice. Um, also, um, under, under this, if there are any contracts that have already been written for, uh, you know, folks, you know, farm owners or you know, folks working on the farms that, that operate these, this machinery, if there are any contracts written already that would, um, that would co counter to this, that's all void whoa. And unenforceable. So immediately that just kind of goes away. Wow. But it applies to tractors, trailers, combines, sprayers, tillage, uh, implements, bayers, other equipment, um, used in, you know, planting, cultivating, harvesting, agriculture. It's really focused on the farm equipment. So that's why this is really tech adjacent. It's not, it's not purely technology, although, but it's

Mikah Sargent (00:47:25):
Large a precedent.

Jason Howell (00:47:26):
Yeah. It's, it's a precedent setting thing. And also, you know, it's, it's worth mentioning that, you know, a large reason, um, that John Deere has wanted to kind of hold onto this has been the technology aspect mm-hmm. <affirmative> that's underlying these tractors, right? Yep. Tractors aren't, you know, and farm equipment nowadays isn't just an engine with really large wheels, you know, that that pulls things Yeah. Or that digs things. It's whatever. A lot of cars. Yeah. It's very, very, um, techno, uh, technology infused. There's a lot more tech happening that allows farmers to analyze their crops, you know, in different ways that they would have to do in other, you know, uh, uh, ways and approaches prior to this technology kind of coming into these vehicles. So there is technology in there, um, but it's a big deal. Uh, like I said, John Deere has been fighting tooth and nail for like a decade now.

(00:48:18):
This has been a story that's been going on forever to prevent federal and state level laws that authorize right to repair on the behalf of farmers and independent repair shops. Um, just last January, actually, uh, after many years of pushing back on a right to repair, John Deere released an agreement with the American Farm Bureau Federation where it promised to provide farmers in independent shops with information in order to aid in their own repair. But there was no real commitment of in or enforcement of that. It was really John Deere saying, no, hey, we promise. And honestly, it kind of seemed like writing was on the wall, you know, as far as that's concerned, uh, making the decision to do this. Only when there, there's a reason to, you know, which is, oh, well we don't want this to actually go to that next level.

(00:49:07):
And that's kind of what's happening now. So they're also facing class action lawsuit over monopolization of its repair services, which at the end of the day is really, really what it's all about. John Deere in requiring this stuff, you know, ends up, has ended up funneling all of this repair and all of this money that would go into this through them. So it puts it on their schedule, it puts, you know, any of that, that money that's coming through and, you know, that gets funneled through to them. And farmers, like I actually have, um, relatives who, you know, own a farm, have, have run that farm for, you know, generations at this point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, so I've seen, I've seen my uncle and how, how and, and his family and just how dedicated they are to, to that, uh, that lifestyle and being so like, nimble and able to manage it all.

(00:50:02):
And, you know, that includes repairs as things break, being able to get in there and really kind of take charge and, and do what they need to do Yeah. To keep business going. And, uh, this kind of goes counter, you know, has gone counter to that. So, so personally, like I saw this news and I was like, all right, that's a, that's a big win. Um, you know, it's a, I think it's a, a big deal for setting the precedent, like you said, hope. Um, there are tractor right to repair bills pending in 15 other states right now. Ooh.

Mikah Sargent (00:50:32):
So we could start to say do.

Jason Howell (00:50:33):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I certainly hope so. And then, uh, of course, right to repair extends outside of tractor repair, right. Uh, New York, past a last December, uh, a law where, you know, right. To repair related to digital electronic devices, you know, as a broader scope. And I think, you know, apple has kind of run into this over time. Yes, yes. And they've started to loosen up too, but it's like the companies that really wanna hold onto this, they loosen up once they realize, oh, shoot, we might be forced to do this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So let's do this in a way that we are okay with. I

Mikah Sargent (00:51:10):
Always go back to this, uh, comparison because I remember learning about this in a college. Um, I think it was like a media class, and it really struck me, a and it, and it stays with me to this day, is the movie industry, Hollywood. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they saw how telecom and everything involved with that radio, all of that was being regulated. And they said, we do not want to be regulated by the government, so we are going to regulate ourselves. Right. And so they set up the rating system mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it is all very, you know, it, it, they, to this day, they keep it very steadfast and Sure. It's very hard to make changes to that. And they keep the regulation in place. They make it, um, as strict as it is so that they aren't, look, you know, you don't have to look at us, we're fine.

(00:51:56):
We're, you know, we're, we're here, we're doing our thing. And so you see these, in this case, it's, it's sort of in the reverse. You do see companies going, okay, well, uh, in order to keep ourselves from more possible overreach or legislation or whatever, where okay, we're, we're, we're pulling back on how much control we have over it. Yeah. I think that that can be, um, pretty interesting. One thing I had not considered, and this is again, less about tech and more of just like civics understanding in general, cuz I get a little bit, um, uh, pessimistic about the ability for, well, frankly, any change to take place because of lobbying. Hmm. Um, when I think about how, uh, you know, a company could give quite a bit of money and the ways that it does to keep, uh, federal, uh, legislation from changing, I hadn't thought about the fact that if you've got a bunch of states that are individually making this choice mm-hmm.

(00:52:52):
<affirmative>, suddenly that's a lot more money you're having to try to pour into things. Whereas if it's the focus true on federal, you've got one target or one set of targets that you have to work on. Yeah. But the fact that all of these states are doing it independently, that can start to get pretty expensive for these companies. Absolutely. And so, seeing Colorado do this, and now if, if we start to see more states do this, that's too much money for the company to try to throw into those different places to keep this from happening. That's pretty inspirational to me. Yeah. So it's cool to see that, you know, in this case, the change, and I, I'm not, you know, we don't know where this is gonna go. Maybe Colorado ends up being the only one that does it, but in thinking about, oh, if we try to do it from the state side of things, that can make a big difference because the company just couldn't necessarily keep up with all of the lobbying that has to do.

Jason Howell (00:53:36):
Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. Um, and, uh, you know, the states, that's one thing, federal level, um, just in 2021, president Biden issued an executive order related to this as well. So there's pressure

Mikah Sargent (00:53:49):
From all sides.

Jason Howell (00:53:50):
From all sides right now. Um, and so yeah, I just, I saw this, it's a, I know that, uh, a lot of people in the farming industry are, are really happy that this happened. And, uh, so I just wanted to kind shine a little light on it,

Mikah Sargent (00:54:03):
Especially think about how industrious these folks are.

Jason Howell (00:54:05):
Oh, 100%. That's exactly what, yeah, that's the perfect word. They,

Mikah Sargent (00:54:09):
They would be great at fixing this on their own in most cases. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:54:13):
Or, you know, and, and I mean, there is truth to the fact that like, if there, like we were talking about car cars, machines like this now have more technology infused in them. So certainly there are things that lie outside of their scope, like they're not gonna know, you know, to, to open up the board and solder or, or whatever. Or maybe they would, but I'm, I'm assuming there are a lot of, a lot of farmers who might not know that part. But this will also allow third party repair shops and, you know, businesses who do understand that get involved so that they aren't being squeezed from a time perspective. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> by companies like John Deere from a cost perspective. I mean, it's really, it's a monopoly of, of, of the servicing, um, you bought

Mikah Sargent (00:54:56):
That is kind of opening up. We fix it for you. Right, right. It might take six months, it might take nine years. <laugh> to gotta wait either way. Yeah.

Jason Howell (00:55:04):
We decide. All right. Not you, me, <laugh>. Uh, so anyways, so good news there, uh, and, uh, long hard battle. Not totally won yet, but yeah, at least the beginning. Hopefully, uh, this leads to more. So there we go. But that's my story of the week and that is the full episode of Tech News Weekly as well. We've reached the end. We do this show every Thursday. All you have to do is go to twit tv slash tnw and you can subscribe to this show. Uh, it is a podcast after all. So once you subscribe, it'll just deliver itself to you once it is published and it's a beautiful thing, you just listen or watch from there. It's a beautiful chef's kiss.

Mikah Sargent (00:55:44):
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(00:56:37):
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Jason Howell (00:58:00):
Do it

Mikah Sargent (00:58:01):
Now. If you'd like to follow me online, I'm at Mikah Sergeant on many a social media network. Or you can add to chiwawa.coffee, that's C hhi h hua h hua.coffee, or I've got links to the places I'm most active online. Uh, please check out Hands on Mac, uh, later today. If you are a Club TWiT member. Also on Sundays you can watch, ask the Tech guys where Leo LaPorte and I take your questions, uh, live on air and answer them for you. And Tuesdays you can watch iOS today with Rosemary Orchard and myself. We, uh, have a great time talking about iOS TV os, watch os, et cetera. Jason Howell, what about

Jason Howell (00:58:39):
You? Right on. Well, I'm, uh, I'm on Twitter at Jason Howell, not really using it much. I'm on Mask It on Twitter, do social slash at Jason Howell. Not really using it. Mine <laugh>. Um, <laugh>, I'm just not using social media much these days saying, and I'm okay right now. I'm, I'm okay with it. You'll find me in the Discord though, uh, uh, from time to Time Club Twi. Anyways, uh, where you will see me is all about Android every Tuesday, twit.tv/a a a. And actually here in a couple weeks, we're gonna be going to Google io. We're gonna have our pre io show here at the studio. I think it's gonna be me, Ron, Wynn, and Michelle all in studio. In

Mikah Sargent (00:59:19):
Studio. Wow.

Jason Howell (00:59:20):
Yeah, unfortunately Flo I don't think could make it, but, um, I don't think she's gonna be able to make it. But we're gonna be up here. And then we go down to Mountain View and we do Google io and we've got some pretty awesome interviews lined up there, uh, with some of the Android folk, uh, that are actually making these announcements to talk to them about the big stuff from Google io. So that's all to say, Ooh, subscribe to all about Android twit tv slash A a a lots to look forward to. And, uh, yeah, I think that's, that's really about it. Thanks to you for watching and listening. Thanks to John and John and Burke and everyone behind the scenes, the machinery that is TWiT that help us do this show each and every week. And thanks to you again for watching and listening. We'll see you next time on Tech News Weekly. Bye everybody. Bye bye. Have a good

V.O. Scott Wilkinson (01:00:04):
Day. Pow. Hey there. Scott Wilkinson here. In case you hadn't heard, home Theater Geeks is Back. Each week I bring you the latest audio, video news, tips and tricks to get the most out of your AV system product reviews and more you can enjoy home Theater Geeks only if you're a member of Club TWiT, which costs seven bucks a month. Or you can subscribe to Home Theater Geeks by itself for only 2 99 a month. I hope you'll join me for a weekly dose of home theater Geek.