Tech News Weekly 282 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
Mikah Sargent (00:00:00):
Coming up on Tech News Weekly, Jason Howell and I, Mikah Sargent, kick off the show by talking to Jay Peters of the Verge about a decentralized social media service called Blue Sky. It is its own protocol and we talk about whether it could be one of many decentralized social media networks that actually makes it somewhere in this race to replace Twitter. Then we talked to Mark Gurman of Bloomberg about Apple's plans for its ar vr mixed reality headsets. Apple has a lot in the works, including many of its own apps, and how this might be an iPad on your face. <Laugh>, our stories of the week are pretty nostalgic. We first talk about the end of computer magazines. Jason Howell and I take a trip down memory lane talking about our history with magazines and how it helped to shape who we are today. And I round things out with saying goodbye, goodbye to Netflix dvd. V d I don't know, I guess it deserved an ode. So stay tuned for this episode of Tech News Weekly
V.O. (00:01:11):
Podcasts you love. From people you trust is Tweet.
Jason Howell (00:01:20):
This is Tech News Weekly episode 282, recorded Thursday, April 20th, 2023.
V.O. (00:01:27):
Listeners of this program get an ad free version if they're members of Club TWiT. $7 a month gives you ad free versions of all of our shows plus membership in the club. Twit Discord, a great clubhouse for TWiT listeners. And finally, the TWiT plus feed with shows like Stacy's Book Club, the Untitled Lenox Show, the Gizz Fizz and more. Go to twit.tv/club twit and thanks for your support.
Mikah Sargent (00:01:54):
Hello and welcome to Tech News Weekly, the show where every week we talk to and about the people making and breaking the tech news. I am one of your hosts, Mikah, Sargent.
Jason Howell (00:02:03):
I'm the other guy, Jason Howell. My first interview has some breaking ish news in it. I didn't realize that there was breaking news tied to this cause I actually did the majority of the work last night, but apparently we've got breaking news within the interview and I love it when it works like
Mikah Sargent (00:02:21):
That. There's the breaking news sound.
Jason Howell (00:02:23):
There you go. Thank you. I app, that's what I was waiting for. So, decentralized social media. You know, it's all the rage these days that, and ai, but usually when we hear about decentralized social media mask it on is somewhere nearby listening <laugh> and, and
Mikah Sargent (00:02:39):
Giant MAs it on in the room. Yeah, right. That's
Jason Howell (00:02:42):
Me. That's you're talking about me. Right? But what about Blue Sky? This is Jack Dorsey's take on decentralized social and I, I don't know. I I'm, I'm curious about this. We'll get to the breaking news in a second, bud. Joining us is j Peters from The Verge who says it's his favorite clone, yet that's high praise if I do say so myself. Welcome to the show, Jay.
Jay Peters (00:03:05):
Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
Jason Howell (00:03:06):
To be here. Yeah, it's good to get you here. So have you, before we kind of get into Blue Sky itself, I'm assuming you've probably spent a good amount of time with some of the other options out there. Mastered Mastodon is of course, just, just one, I suppose. But what, what other kind of alternative Twitter kind of experiences have you, have you checked out?
Jay Peters (00:03:29):
I've looked at Mastodon of course, and I've kind of been watching for things like post.news. Yeah. There's one called t2, which I think is just supposed to be Twitter too. There are so many of them out there, but where I've struggled is Mastodon of course, is a really big community, which is great to be a part of. But these other new ones, it, it's very small. Communities are very early, early betas still. And I was intrigued when I checked out Blue Sky.
Jason Howell (00:04:01):
Okay. And I, I guess the, the breaking news here is that the Android client was released late yesterday afternoon, which was the reason that I haven't checked it out for myself. Mikah actually hooked me up with a invite code and I was like, okay, great. I'm gonna do this. And then there was no Android client for me to, to throw it onto. So apparently you are on iOS, I'm assuming, and you've been checking it out for a while. How, like, what, what kind of stands out for you as far as the exp Like does it compare pretty closely with the, with something like Mastodon, which you know, I've, I've certainly used a decent amount. Or how is it different?
Jay Peters (00:04:40):
What I liked most about Blue Sky is when you get your invite code and you make your account for the first time, it just recommended the primary Blue Sky domain to be a part of. Where I think people get tripped up with Mastodon is, is there's so many domains or places to make your account that you maybe don't even know where to start. Yeah. and, and maybe with Blue Sky, that's just because Blue Sky is so early mm-hmm. <Affirmative> to begin that this is the only real place to hang out. But I thought that was really nice. And as soon as I jumped in, it felt like there was a really thriving community of people who had an idea of just, just the environment and the vibe they wanted to create. And it felt really fun to hang out in.
Jason Howell (00:05:26):
So when you joined on this kind of like early access, did you immediately get access to people you knew? Because I mean, you know, I I guess in a situation like this, you're only gonna be exposed to anyone else who happens to be on and if it's early access, like did that involve people that you already were following on the onboarding process or was it like a general feed that you were tapping into initially that you were like, oh, this is actually pretty positive.
Jay Peters (00:05:54):
It was just a general feed. They have a I believe it's called a What's Hot tab, which just serves you, things you think you might like. And that was kind of the first place where I started to just see what people are talking about, see who people are. As far as I know, I was one of the first like people in my tech journalist community to get access that has already immediately started to change. And so instead of just following lots of people that I already knew, I got to see conversations from people that I didn't know but who have been part of this community for a long time. And I thought that was a really fun way to learn about the environment in Blue Sky. Just, just seeing it as a total newcomer without any preconceptions about what it might be.
Jason Howell (00:06:40):
I think what's appealing to me based on what you wrote about Blue Sky is the levity of the platform. Because, you know, I've, when, when did I start on Twitter? I think it was like 2008, like late 2007 or early 2008. So been with Twitter long enough to have seen the initial I'm eating a sandwich phase and <laugh> then turn it into everything that it turned into over the years. Things just got really heavy and not nearly as playful, especially in the last, I'd say five years. Which I mean, I, I would ar say has kind of led to my kind of lagging interest in participating in some social media because, you know, why do I want to use something that's just gonna bum me out on a regular basis? But it sounds like from what you're writing at least early days with Blue Sky, and maybe this is attributed to the fact that there just aren't an insane amount of people there. So it's a little bit controlled as far as that's concerned, but things seem a little bit light. That sounds kind of appealing to me.
Jay Peters (00:07:42):
Yeah, it's, I found it's interesting in that it is very lighthearted and it feels like there's a lot of levity. I missed the first, first wave of what Twitter was. I started using it in college as like a journalism tool. They taught us to use it that way. I missed kind of the super fun face. But I see lots of levity. But what I also see is an acknowledgement that we're all aware of, you know, sort of the weird or dark or how social media can be bad. And it seems like the people on Blue Sky are like, we acknowledge that these are risks and you know, maybe not fun things about being on social media, but we're gonna try and create a positive place to hang out anyway. And I think that's just been a really interesting dichotomy to see. And I, I think that sort of ethos hopefully will inform how the, how it grows and how people treat each other on the platform moving forward.
Jason Howell (00:08:38):
Yeah, indeed. Now you write a little bit about the AT protocol. Talk a little bit about the protocol itself cuz I mean, you know, we know kind of what's, what's happening behind Mastodon, like you said earlier things can get a little confusing, not, not as so with Blue Sky, but what is, what makes the AT Protocol I I guess, unique to what Blue Sky is doing and what does it have the potential to offer down the line?
Jay Peters (00:09:07):
Yeah, so my understanding is, is like Mastodon, which is built on top of the Activity Pub protocol the AT protocol wants to be something that different applications you can use for types of decentralized social networking. But one thing they wanna do a little bit differently is, is they're really key on finding ways to make custom algorithms that in terms of what will serve you, you know, what you see in the feed all the time. And I think that's not present in the app now, but I think eventually the idea is if you want an algorithm that shows you primarily tech news or maybe primarily cats, right? Like, then you can tailor that to what you wanna see as opposed to like what we've seen under Elon Musk's Twitter where the algorithm it, it, you can't really trust what's gonna show you and it, how what it shows you changes very regularly, often in response to what people are seeing on the platform and complaining about. So like I I think that could be a really fascinating way that changes our relationship with these platforms. Assuming this protocol gets broader adoption and picked up and used in these ways.
Jason Howell (00:10:23):
Is there any possibility do you think of these protocols kind of becoming interoperable or <laugh> being able to kind of cross cross, I don't wanna say contaminate, but <laugh> share, share information and communications between them? Cuz I, I mean that yeah, that, that sounds kind of appealing on one hand, but on the other hand, I'm kinda like, oh, maybe it's, maybe it's best to keep things simple.
Jay Peters (00:10:47):
Well, that feels like the most decentralized thing that could happen is if these two, you know, if these two protocols worked together in some way. Sure. And I don't know if that's a plan or down the line and, you know, if I had to pick, I think Activity Pub has the more momentum right now because it's already being used in places like Ma on, and I think WordPress, they picked up like a, a activity pub extension or something. And so like, I think there's more activity in Activity Pub right now at Protocol is still so early in its development mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, but, you know, maybe 2, 3, 4 years down the line I think it could be really interesting to see adoption of both platforms and how they, how they compare and how they might work together, or how you might have to pick a horse in what protocol you're on instead of what app you're on.
Jason Howell (00:11:37):
Right, right. Yeah. and then of course moderation is a big a big consideration when we're talking about these social platforms. How, how has that been handled so far based on what you're seeing? I mean, you're, you're talking about a very pleasant experience, I'm assuming, you know, part of that is because it's a very controlled release, it's not open to everybody. So, you know, there, there's kind of an invite system and that that helps keep things handled and maintained in a moderation sense probably. But I mean, like, what is, what is the plan? Do we have any insight into how the network keeps itself moderated going forward?
Jay Peters (00:12:19):
Yeah, I think there's a base level of moderation that's automatically built in the platform right now. And I think the folks who work directly on Blue Sky, they are actively like, dealing with moderation reports as they come in. I think like they're the front lines for that right now, the small team down the line, my understanding is they wanna make something that they called the c e o called in a blog composable moderation, where you would be able to pick certain filters or tags and, and apply those to what you see on Blue Sky all the time. And you could maybe grab somebody else's filters or another company's filters or whatever to, to make the experience the way you want it to be. The idea here is so that Blue Sky itself is not the one making every broad moderation decision for every person. They equated it to, like a state government deciding different things. And the theory with Blue Sky is if you don't like what that state government is doing, you can move to another state and be in their government. Right. And so we'll have to see how that works in practice, but I think it's a, a really intriguing approach to moderation that I look forward to just seeing how it all works.
Jason Howell (00:13:35):
Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. there, I have seen some criticism out there online kind of being given to Blue Sky in the sense that, okay, it's an open protocol, it's an open system. However, they're doing some things that are very centralized networky, like, like the invite system as as one example. So it's kind of like little of this, a little of that. If you're truly open, then everybody should, should get a piece or whatever. What's, what's your take on that?
Jay Peters (00:14:04):
I think right now it makes sense for them to be an invite only system. It seems like it's a pretty small team that's putting together Blue Sky right now. And if it was just open to the masses already I don't, I don't think they'd be able to field moderation. They would have maybe bug stuff they gotta work out. Like, you know, the Android app only just came out yesterday. Yeah. The iOS app was released, I think at the end of February. And so they still have a lot of work ahead of them, and I think they're really aware of that, and they want to, to make sure they have the foundations of the platform in place before they really start to open it up to the masses. So I think it's an okay approach though. I can see the criticisms of, of like, if it was truly, truly open, you just let it open right now. But yeah, I think they're taking the right approach
Jason Howell (00:14:50):
At this one. At, at the end of the day, we want a, we want a, a service that respects its users that's safe to use that isn't buckling under it, under its own weight. So yeah, I, I would tend to agree with you on that as well. Jay Peters from the Verge Writing for The Verge. Everybody should check out Jay's article on why he loves Blue Skies so much. Thank you so much for hopping on with us today, Jay. It's been a pleasure talking with you.
Jay Peters (00:15:16):
Thanks for having me.
Jason Howell (00:15:17):
All right. Take care. We'll see you soon.
Jay Peters (00:15:19):
Bye-Bye.
Mikah Sargent (00:15:21):
All righty. Up next, it's time to take a look into the future at what Apple may or may not have plans for. At its ww d c, the Worldwide Developers Conference, which Apple hosts every summer we've heard that Apple may reveal a new product category, a headset in joining us today to talk about what he knows is Bloomberg's own Mark Germond, welcome back to the show. Mark.
Mark Gurman (00:15:56):
Thank you for having me. How you doing?
Mikah Sargent (00:15:57):
Yeah, it's great to get you on the show. I am looking forward to this conversation because, so <laugh>, I think I was recording iOS today on Tuesday morning, and then I saw this news piece hit and I thought, oh boy, I gotta read through this as quickly as I can and see what's going on. Can you start, before we get into the nitty gritty of, of, of what this report is about? Let's pretend this report doesn't exist yet. Tell us what the rumors have been up to this point about Apple creating a mixed reality headset, and maybe even for folks who might not know what does mixed reality mean?
Mark Gurman (00:16:38):
Yeah, just to take a step back, apple sees mixed reality as its next major product category after the iPhone, after the iPad, after the Apple Watch. Mixed reality blends augmented reality and virtual reality. So virtual reality is sort of like an old school quest or HTC five headset from Lenovo. And it's basically very much all encompassing. All you see is the environment within your headset. Augmented reality is the opposite. It overlays digital information and graphics and such over the real world. So essentially like what Google Glass did 10 years ago, mixed reality does both. And in the case of the Apple headset, you'll be able to twist a dial similar to the digital crown on the Apple watcher, on the AirPods headphones to go in and out of ar mode in VR mode. Right? And so my story this week is detailing basically the core of the functionality of this device.
(00:17:28):
It's gonna be like an iPad or a Mac for your face, the future of the computer, as some people call it. And you'll be able to do your entire workflow, right? Supposedly on this device, you'll have all the core iPad apps. You'll have all the app store apps you'll have virtual workouts like fitness plus you'll have gaming. You'll have a new sports viewing portal, right? So watching sports in vr like your court side. So it's gonna have a pretty impressive array, a feature list that's a mile long. And I'm curious, which features themselves will mostly resonate with consumers. One of the core features that they'll be pushing is virtual reality FaceTime. So the device has advanced cameras in and out of the headset to sense what you look like and build a realistic recreation of who you are in virtual reality. And that becomes your avatar in the device. So I'm looking forward to, you know, seeing my avatar at least.
Mikah Sargent (00:18:23):
Yeah. so speaking of kind of this new reporting now we have seen at least virtual reality headsets from several companies and some augmented reality tries in the past. But what is new here is with a mixed reality headset, having the ability to kind of switch between AR and vr. And I'm kind of curious, just in general there's been all of this hesitation sort of, some companies have stepped away from vr, ar in big ways where they kind of had an early investment in it. What is it that Apple is doing differently if they are that is going to possibly make this a, a, a more popular product?
Mark Gurman (00:19:11):
It's hopefully launching from day one. And I say hopefully for them with a very strong ecosystem of apps, there'll be a runup between the announcement of the product and the release of the product. And their hope is that the app store will be filled with optimized apps for this X R O S, as they're going to call it, the ability to run iPad apps in the device from the get-go. Obviously their privacy standpoint has been key to this. It's a big differentiator from Meta. They claim to be obviously more private, more encrypted. They're not pushing this idea of living in the device, right? Like some sort of metaverse mm-hmm. <Affirmative> it's gonna be very tailored to those use cases. So you'll use FaceTime, right? But you're not living in it just like you'll use FaceTime on your phone or on your iPad or Mac what have you.
(00:20:06):
 And I think that the AR mode is gonna be a really key component of the device as well. Likewise the external display on the outside where you'll be able to show your, your, your eyes and your full face even when wearing the headset <laugh>. So I think, you know, a combination of those things they think are going to make this a real seller. On the other hand, it's gonna be extraordinarily overpriced, $3,000 at least or around in that range, two to 32,000 to 3,500, I'll fall in there. You know, I, I don't think this is gonna do well initially, I think that before smartphones, before iPods or before the iPhone, before the iPod, before the iPad, before the Apple watch, there weren't people saying that we don't need these products. Right? I think there was plenty of demand and interest in MP3 players and phones and tablets and, and watches and such.
(00:20:57):
Nobody's asking for a mixed reality headset. Nobody wants this thing. This is really gonna be, you know, there was always a classic Steve Jobs line where we want to invent products that the world doesn't know that it needs yet, right? And okay, fine. He said that, was that really true though, that the world didn't know it needed an iPhone or an iPad or an iPod, right? These were all devices that fit in to what people were clamoring for. Everyone wanted a computer in your pocket, everyone wanted a, an Apple watch, right? This is really the first time where Apple's gonna be bringing something to market that nobody wants. Yeah, right. <Laugh> and tell people on why they should pay big bucks for something that's gonna take them out of the real world. And so we'll see how it goes. My personal bet is that it'll probably do well at the, at in the future, but it's gonna be pretty slow and dramatic at the get go.
Mikah Sargent (00:21:50):
So let's go to that price. You said, you know, anywhere between 25 a hundred, 3000, maybe even more potentially, is the price a because, okay, so there are different goals kind of whenever you are setting a price. Obviously you wanna make your money back and then some, but it can also be a way to sort of box out <laugh> a certain category. Is this such a high price because Apple is using it as a means to make sure it only ends up in the hands of developers who want to make stuff for the platform. Is it so that it only goes to those early adopters who are super tech enthusiasts? Or is this just the cost of doing business when it comes to this sort of new kind of, of technology? I dunno, a lot of the technology itself isn't new, but whenever it's all brought together in this one package, that sort of packaging of the technology makes it new. What do we think about the price here?
Mark Gurman (00:22:49):
And Mikah, that's a terrific question, and the God honest truth from my understanding is that this is this, and this is going to sound new and surprising, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, they're not pricing it at $3,000 in order to lock people outta the market. Okay? They're not pricing it at $3,000 to enjoy their typical 35% to 60% margins, which that would be at least for them. A good reason to do that. I, I don't agree personally as a consumer, but it's actually because that's what it's cost to make. Mm. I don't expect them to profit a dollar, maybe a dollar, but I don't expect them to profit anything significantly on this headset from a hardware perspective in the early innings of this device. Whoa. Right. Whoa. For the most part, they'll be selling these at cost. It's a combination of the very pricey technology, external Ola display, two 4K micro L e d VR panels inside upwards of 14 cameras on the outside Iris and retina scanners on the inside battery M two chip, a very pricey aluminum frame, the cushions, right?
(00:23:59):
 It's gonna be expensive. So I definitely think that it's a com combination of that, plus the low units, right? Price comes down with economies of scale. I don't think that this is going to be scaling at such large quantity where they're able to get the price down to where they want it at this point. A lot of the tech is very nascent. They're having to, to not profit on the individual components as well that go into this thing. So I definitely think that it's gonna be a few years before they're really gonna profit on it. They're working on two follow-ups already. One is a more powerful version of this initial headset, and one is a cheaper version of the headset. I would say this first version of the headset, sort of that pro tier is using Mac grade components, right? If you want to compare a Mac to an iPhone, whereas the cheaper version will be using sort of iPhone caliber components. So if you wanna delineate between an A series chip and an M series chip, for example,
Jason Howell (00:24:52):
I am super interested in seeing how this plays out. And I totally I totally understand what you're saying as far as the, you know, the initial launch is gonna be dramatic and kind of quiet as far as you know reaction I'd say from people who are really behind this. And that is really all about the long tail. The comparison to make is that, you know, Facebook did its thing where it changed its company name to Meta Z, you know, mark Zuckerberg went all in on this idea of like, metaverse everything. It's the future, it's our 10 year plan. And what are we two years in? Or I don't even know if we're two years into that at this point. But you know, there's an article that someone that scooter X put in the chat room meta reportedly stopped pitching advertisers on the metaverse.
(00:25:37):
Like, and it's almost like meta, I can feel the regret. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can feel the regret of smell it, the fact that things have sh have shifted and this like forward thinking, futuristic, like, no, I don't care if it doesn't make sense now, it does. Then like, I kind of feel them, you know, starting to, to change their mind a little bit. Do you think Apple's, you know, has the potential to suffer from the same kind of impact? I mean, Apple's a different kind of company and often they can make things really successful that were just kind of floating on the top, you know, by anyone else that was trying. What is your thought there? Do you think Apple's capable of that long term? I
Mark Gurman (00:26:19):
Think meta was too aspirational. I mean, they changed the name of the company to focus around this metaverse approach. Yeah. They sold the false promise of these capabilities that don't necessarily exist yet. I've been watching the N B A playoffs, as you can imagine, and they have two commercials running. They have a doctor diagnosing a patient's knee cartilage, and she's wearing these AR glasses and it's basically doing a live x-ray and analysis of this guy's knee. And then you have the other ad where you have a bunch of firefighters wearing ar goggles running into a burning house or a burning building mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and the glasses are sort of showing them where everyone is located, right? This is how Meta's advertising ar vr mixed reality that doesn't exist.
Mikah Sargent (00:27:04):
No <laugh>, right?
Mark Gurman (00:27:05):
It's a fantasy don't exist and it's, it's fantasy. Exactly. It may never exist. If it does, it'll be 20 years. Right? And so they're pitching a false promise. People are realizing that it's BS and they've completely soiled the market, not only for themselves, but for everyone else. It was gonna be difficult enough for Apple to sell people on something that Apple knows that people don't need or want. Right? And now on top of it, not only Apple, but everyone getting into this space has to get over the, the hump that Meta has created to really soil the market, right? Yeah. Yeah. They took something that people already didn't believe in. It made it even less believable. So that's,
Jason Howell (00:27:41):
That's a challenge for, for Apple. Absolutely.
Mark Gurman (00:27:44):
But Meta is still going full throttle on this. They're working on five or six next generation headsets already. I think that this can play out similarly to Android and iPhone, whereas the iPhone will be on the high end and Meta will be on the low end. That's if Meta gets its act together, I think Apple will be quite successful at the high end. They have. So, like, put it this way, Google is turning out new Pixel phones twice a year already since 2016, and they are not making an impact on the market. And that's Google. Yeah. Apple has three times as much cash as Google. And so like, if they can sustain having a Harbor division that's really doing nothing for the company, I think Apple could sustain turning out these headsets until something works. They'll, they'll eventually get it right. You know, it took a few years on the Apple watch, but they got it right eventually.
(00:28:29):
Remember the iPhone 3G price cut with the iPhone 15 years ago, that helped tremendously. The other thing I will say is that meta went a hundred percent into the metaverse. I would say Apple's probably going 5% into mixed reality, right? And I don't think that push negates anything else that they're doing, whereas Meta negated all the good they were doing. I'm not gonna sit here and say they were doing a ton of good, but what I'm trying to say is they went full throttle into something when they probably should have made it a core part of their business, but not the business. Yeah.
Mikah Sargent (00:29:01):
One more thing here. I wanna follow up back on what you were talking about with the pricing. Has Apple in, in modern Apple Times, you know, since they've had a lot of extra money and have been good to go, not in the times where it was like, oh, you know, what's, what's the future of Apple look like? Has there been a product that they were as, as you kind of think just cutting very close to even and not making a bunch of extra pro bunch of extra profit on it? Has, is, is this an unprecedented thing for them or have we seen this before and maybe it just wasn't as clear as, as it is with this product?
Mark Gurman (00:29:42):
So it's twofold. It's unprecedented at the price, right? A thousand bucks in over, they're making a ton of profit mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, whether that's the iPhone, whether it's the higher end max three products that I will tell you that C close here. But it's not on apples to apples comparison. The lower end Apple watches that they're selling at, what, 200 bucks? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> probably getting close the Apple TVs for sure. Right? For sure. If you remember the $99 Apple TV pucks mm-hmm. <Affirmative> 2010 for sure. But like these Apple TVs today, they cut the prices, they're getting fairly close. And then the Home pod mini, they're probably getting pretty close too. They're corporate average for margins, I believe is, is about 37 point a 5%. And I would guarantee that those three products fall below the average. And the Apple TV closer to zero, and the HomePod may probably closer to 10%.
(00:30:33):
Right. But in terms of a $3,000 caliber device, yeah. Now there's a totally different direction Apple could choose to take this, right? There's a scenario which I think is unlikely that this device costs $3,000 to make and they price it at $2,000 and take it as a money loser to try to get the category going. Wow. I don't foresee that happening. It's also possible that they have been able to get the price down now that they're mass producing it significantly. Right? It's possible they've maybe gotten it down to 24 99. Right? That seems likely to me too. So we shall see. Right? I would be surprised if they announced the price at ww d c I think maybe they don't announce it until it's a little bit clearer toward end of year when they're actually shipping it how things shake out once they're getting these things produced. That
Mikah Sargent (00:31:21):
That's a lot of sense. Yeah, definitely. <Laugh> I said that was the last question, but I do have one final question and then we'll let you go. And it's about, in, in your piece, you kind of talk about how Apple is almost taking a a two-pronged approach here. You've got this sort of productivity mindset where they really are trying to make sure that page's, numbers, keynote, all of that is available. And then the gaming activity area where you can play games on it, but you can also do workouts and meditation, and you talk about a dial of switching back between AR and vr. Do you think that Apple sort of from the get-go had this mindset in, in play? Or is this a way for Apple to sort of spread out the risk and make it so that, you know, I I, if somebody wants to use it for productivity, it's there for them.
(00:32:16):
If somebody wants to use it for this, it's there for them. I guess what I'm saying is think about the Apple Watch when it first launched the most personal device you'll ever own, and it was about the heartbeat on your wrist and all this other goofy stuff, and then it just became almost exclusively, it's an activity tracker. It's a health device. And they didn't necessarily have that as the main scope here. You see them looking at two main scopes from the get-go. Is that a lesson learned or is it just, you know, they want it to be both productivity and play?
Mark Gurman (00:32:49):
How about this? I have a story actually coming this weekend on Sunday exactly on this topic. Ah, if, if you'd like, we can have me back next week and I'll go through it once the story is out. We can talk all about that if you want. Yeah,
Mikah Sargent (00:33:03):
Let's do it. Let's do it. I'd love to have you back on then and after you've got, you know, sort of your analysis figured out Mark Herman, thank you so much for your time today. I look forward to hearing more about this. Of course, folks can head to Bloomberg to check out your work, but let us know where they should go to keep up with what you're up to.
Mark Gurman (00:33:25):
Yeah, Twitter's great twitter.com/markGurman or bloomberg.com/power on to subscribe to my weekly column. It was awesome being on here. Can't wait to come on again soon. And always a pleasure and always love to come on. So
Mikah Sargent (00:33:39):
Thank you so much. Thanks you. Yeah,
Jason Howell (00:33:41):
Thank you.
Mikah Sargent (00:33:43):
Alrighty. Let us move right along to Jason Howell's story of the
Jason Howell (00:33:47):
Week. All right. At this point, so I, I hosted TWiT this last Sunday, and then I hosted this week in Google yesterday in, in Leo's absence. And so I was kind of like, do I do this story again? Because it was on both of those shows, but it's really, it's really close to my heart. I realize like that it's actually, that it actually means something to me. So I thought I'd kind of expand on it a little bit. Harry McCracken wrote a fantastic article for Fast Company sorry. No, this is for on his techn blog about the demise of the computer magazine. And he wrote it specifically because there are two magazines that are delivering their last print issues. There's Maximum PC and Mac Life. This current issue is their last issue delivered in print. You can still get it going forward, but it'll be digital going forward.
(00:34:41):
Harry says that this signals the end of the computer magazine in America, so there might be computer magazines outside of the country, but he says, you know, as far as computer magazines made in the usa this would be it. So, like <laugh> as I've, as we've talked about this on TWiT and Twig, I've been trying to think about like, why does this story mean so much to me? I never read Maximum PC or Mac Life mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. But for whatever reason, I, this seems like a big deal to me, and I don't know if it actually is, but we're talking like 50 years of that's of computer magazines. Yeah. And, and to see them go away, I mean, it makes sense. Magazines just as a whole are a lot less relevant nowadays than they were definitely 50 years ago, 40 years ago. The internet has made that, so, but I thought, I'm, I'm curious to know what your background is with any sort of computer magazines, and I thought I'd kind of, I don't know, reminisce a little bit on, on my own history, because I definitely have a few that I was like really into back in the day.
(00:35:47):
So when I was in the when I was a kid, this was back in the eighties commerce 64 was a, a huge device for me. Like, that was like clo that was, that was the technology piece of my childhood. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that defined my childhood when I looked back on it. And there was a magazine called Compute Gazette that was it was an offshoot of a magazine called Compute. It was a commodore only magazine that you know, did things like, gave you glimpses at new games that were coming out. It had this, like, this section that was devoted to basic programming. It was called Basic Corner or something like that. Is that, yeah, that's it. Compute Gazette. And so, you know, as, as a kid I could get this, this magazine and there would be like code that I could enter in Yes.
(00:36:32):
There was like machine language that's so, which code they had, they had certain sections of a dedicated machine language, literally like pages of nothing but numbers. And I specifically remember sitting down with my Commodore 64 entering in these things because, you know, at the, on the other side of that rainbow is a game mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that you would, you would get to play. And usually they'd have that game like featured on the cover, you know, it was like the, you know, some sort of like artistic rendition of what that game was. Meanwhile, it's like five pixels, you know, <laugh> moving around imagination. And, and I would spend all that time entering it in, and then I hit go or run or whatever and it wouldn't work. Ah. And I'd have to go then through, back through, through every single number and troubleshoot. And as, as painful as that sounds, and as painful as it was in retrospect, like, it's also a very fond, like, exciting thing cuz it was like, wait a minute, I'm gonna enter these numbers into this thing and that's gonna turn into a game Yeah.
(00:37:28):
That I didn't have before. And then I have that game. You know, it's just, it was just really cool. It was another magazine called Load Star, which was a Commodor magazine. They had actually a floppy disks, five and a quarter inch floppy discs that would ship with the magazine. Yeah. And so you'd get the magazine, you know, be in cellophane and you open it up and inside there was a floppy disc that you could just throw right into your drive and get to games immediately. No kidding. Right. <laugh> before those were ever, you know, at least in my purview, yes. They, they were not as much of a threat then, but that was like magic. It was like, wait a minute, I can buy that magazine. I'm gonna have to pay a little bit more for that magazine, but I get a disc that has games on it.
(00:38:09):
You know, it was all about games for me back then. A late eighties, early nineties, I moved from the ER 64 to an I B M P PS two. And then shortly after that I got a Macintosh SC 30. And at that time I was reading compute. So Compute had Gazette, which was Commodore related. And then they had just like, compute magazine, which was kind of more broad. You the PC market in general. And so that was really cool. You know, my taste was maturing. I was elevate, you know, I was, I was graduating from the Commodor 64 to an IBM into a Macintosh. And so that, that magazine helped. Same with Bite, I don't know bites like the one that so many people know because I
Mikah Sargent (00:38:55):
Think it's, I probably, I I, I don't remember. And we'll get to mine in a moment, but yeah, I, I'm sure that Bite was one that I did check out, but it was lost in all of the different
Jason Howell (00:39:04):
Magazines. Oh, I mean, at that po Yes, totally. There were so many. But Bite, I think my understanding is that Bite was one of the, if not the first of these like computer magazines and definitely one of the longest standing ones around. So that was cool. And then the only other one that I wouldn't say like, I had a God did I, did I get this delivered or did I just get it at the store? Every once in a while was computer shopper, which I don't know if you remember a computer shopper. No,
Mikah Sargent (00:39:32):
I don't.
Jason Howell (00:39:32):
You'd remember it because it was probably that thick Holy holy moly. And, and
Mikah Sargent (00:39:37):
All the trees
Jason Howell (00:39:38):
An issue. Oh yeah. It was like the size of a, of like Oh, yellow Pages. Yeah.
Mikah Sargent (00:39:42):
And what's in it?
Jason Howell (00:39:44):
It's ads <laugh>. It's like,
Mikah Sargent (00:39:47):
Oh, cuz it's a computer shopper. So you just could look through and buy parts for
Jason Howell (00:39:51):
Computers. Well, and, and you know, understand that a lot of this stuff, at least when I was into this stuff, it was pre-internet. So computer shopper for me was like an aspirational magazine. Right. It was like all these things that I couldn't afford Uhhuh <affirmative>, but I wanted because they were better than the things that I had. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also understanding like, what is a megahertz, you know, what is a, you know, what is an Intel processor? You'll kind of getting exposed to these things. I mean, it's just tons and tons of ads from all these different storefronts all across the world,
Mikah Sargent (00:40:22):
Basically. How crucial.
Jason Howell (00:40:23):
And
Mikah Sargent (00:40:24):
Wait, was that C D w
Jason Howell (00:40:29):
Cdw? Yeah. Yeah. It's impossible Comput how solutions from C D W February, 2002 is that issue. But anyways, I'm not kidding. It was, it was that thick. I mean these things, yeah. Pretty, pretty crazy. So, and that's not even factoring in video game magazines cuz that's not really what this is I think about. Right. I think video game magazines are still probably still going strong. Have
Mikah Sargent (00:40:50):
A little bit more life left.
Jason Howell (00:40:51):
Yeah. But anyways, it got me thinking about that stuff. I'm curious to know like, do you have any history with any of these like computer magazines or anything like
Mikah Sargent (00:41:00):
That? So yeah, I thought so. Going to the sort of thought about it. Yes. Nostalgia. And I think that it also ends up being wrapped up in all of this ends up being a reminder of our mortality
Jason Howell (00:41:14):
<Laugh>. Just like the trees that are dead to create the magazines themselves. It's just, we too shall die
Mikah Sargent (00:41:20):
Sometimes. Yeah. I mean when you see these things leave, then you are reminded that there's an ebb and flow of everything, of, to everything. But so I, I don't, I can't remember titles. There were several pc magazines that I had as part of sort of a larger subscription or you know, regular, I guess. Yeah, it was a subscription. What I remember more would be bunch of graphic design magazines. Ah, but it has the same Cuz I, I originally went to school for graphic design. That's what I was gonna go into the ad business. And I found journalism while I was studying for graphic design and advertising. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And just the nostalgia you were talking about with popping in the floppy disc. I remember collecting CD after CD after cd and getting a bunch of, you know, patterns for Photoshop.
(00:42:14):
Yeah. Right, right. All of that kind of thing. Expanding your toolkit. Yes. And like, I can use this now and then having all of these magazines that I could pull and get inspiration out of. Yeah. And I think the same thing did apply when it came to, you know, learning, cuz I, way back in middle school I had a little web design business that I was doing. And I had the magazines that were teaching me how to add JavaScript, how to at the time use Flash Uhhuh. Um-Huh. So I had like flash coding, I can't remember what flashes sort of coding language was. But learning about that and using that and creating, and so every, you know, month when I would get a new one, I'd pop it in, get the project for it and get to learn a little bit more about how that worked.
(00:43:02):
 So yeah, I mean a lot of my interest and enthusiasm for technology was born of magazines. Yeah. Right. Because it was aspirational, like you're talking about and inspirational mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so Yeah. That does, it does make you sad. I think nowadays, you know, folks can get a similar experience, but there is something visceral and enjoyable about having this sort of totem, if you will. Oh yeah. That, that makes it all like a holy different experience. And that I think is what makes magazine so cool. Even I can, in my head right now, I'm smelling a magazine, you know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Yes. That's the smell of ink and paper <laugh> and even completely unrelated to compute. Like I was a GQ subscriber for so long and reading the different articles in there, but also like the, the center that I still wear to this day.
(00:43:56):
I remember finding, I was in college and you know, flipping the page and then you have the page that's sort of like got the glued flap on it. Yeah. You pull it back, you scratch it. Right. And I remember smelling the Victor and Rolf Spice bomb and going, oh my God, I have to have this scent. And I had to save up money, money, money to be able to buy like my first bottle of it. But I did it. And like to this day, it's a, it's a scent I I've worn for you. Oh, no kidding. Because, and it all came from like a magazine that Yeah. You know, happened to, and at that time, like it was a proud moment for me because I grew up pretty, pretty poor. And so to have this sort of like fancy thing that I strove for while I was, you know, working and, and going to school and everything. So yeah, there's so much feeling tied up in, in magazines. So I completely understand that nostalgia that exists there and there's something incredibly powerful, even if you are just replicating what's in there and typing it in to take the time and the drive to, to get that done. And then when it doesn't work, you didn't give up, you went back and you fixed it. Totally. And then totally you get this program that's, there's just something so cool about
Jason Howell (00:45:05):
That. Yeah. it was, it was very cool and it wasn't for me, it wasn't me entering code cuz I wanna learn how to code. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, it was me entering code because Oh, you're telling me if I put those numbers in there, I get a game. It's like, what? Okay, I'm gonna put those numbers in there and get a game. It's
Mikah Sargent (00:45:20):
Like a cheat code for
Jason Howell (00:45:21):
Life. Right. Totally <laugh>. Totally. So awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, so I, and now this is my third third show talking about this article. I can let it be <laugh> I can, I can just be with my own memories of my childhood computer magazine experience. So there we go. But talking about nostalgia, your story of the week kind of has some nostalgia for me as well.
Mikah Sargent (00:45:46):
Yeah. if you ever got one of these in the mail, I'm for the listeners, I'm holding up a red envelope with the Netflix logo on the front of it. You may have been a subscriber to Netflix, d v d, you may remember that that's how Netflix kind of got its start was you, I mean, think of, of sort of the red box rental, all these different, going to Blockbuster Netflix did that, but online. So you would go online, you'd find a title that you were looking for and essentially rent it and get to watch the film. And then you would send back the DVD v in the mail and then they would send you the next one in your list. And so you would build out a queue and be able to have your, your Netflix titles or rather just DVDs coming through. And it's funny cuz this service has been around for a long time. The first the first DVD v they ever sent out was way back. And I thought this was wild to hear this year, 1998, excuse. Wow. Excuse me. <Laugh>. Yeah. 1998 March, 1998, the first DVD shipped was Beetlejuice. Oh, no kidding. And
Jason Howell (00:47:07):
I will
Mikah Sargent (00:47:08):
Refrain from saying that two more times.
Jason Howell (00:47:09):
Yeah. Don't, we don't, we don't need to hear him coming in here and ruining
Mikah Sargent (00:47:12):
The show. Yeah. So that title was, was sent out way back in March, 1998. And then kind of interesting too from this email and I'm, we're getting to the, the, the punchline, I guess in a moment of, of what's going on here. But the most frequently requested title according to the, the letter that they sent out was the Blind Side the film with SA Sandra Bullock. Okay. about the football player that the woman sort of brought in and, and took care of and has, they've sent out more than 5.2 billion DVDs over the years. If you are a Netflix D v D subscriber you should know because you would've gotten an email that the company is getting rid of this service on September 29th of this year. So Netflix's DVD service is coming to a close after 25 years of service.
(00:48:12):
 I I, we were talking about the, talking about it before the show started. I actually recently became a subscriber to Netflix's DVD service because there was a title that my partner really wanted to watch and I could not find it for purchase anywhere. I could not find it on any streaming service. And Netflix's DVD service happened to have the film there. So I signed up and it was just as simple as I remember. I added the title to my queue and then a couple of days later I went to my mailbox and I had the envelope in my mailbox and it comes in a little sort of thin, I was kinda surprised at how thin it was a thin envelope. And you take out the D V D and it's in a little sleeve, watch it, and then whenever you're ready, you slip it back into the envelope and it has sort of a secondary seal.
(00:49:10):
You seal it back and you can pop it into any mailbox. You don't have to put postage on it or anything like that. And then it goes back. It was super easy. Super, super. I mean they made it so easy and they were also incredibly forgiving, which I can remember growing up, we were my mom especially was incredibly vigilant about when we would go to Blockbuster and get something she knew where that disc or that VHS was at all times. And you know, we had very strict rules if it needs to stay here. Cuz if you racked up those fees of not getting it fast time if you weren't kind and didn't rewind, if you lost it, you would end up spending a lot of of money just to continue to be able to rent Netflix's DVD service. I may have lost a A T V T.
(00:49:55):
 They have a great thing where you can just go online and say, sorry, I lost it, and then they will forgive you. I didn't have to pay anything extra and send you the next one in your queue. And I imagine that if you do that too regular Yeah, don't do that all the time. Yeah. Then it was gonna change, but mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for just that one, it was great. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that was an awesome sort of, you know, I wasn't expecting that. I thought that it was a little bit more going to be a little bit more strict than that. So being incredibly forgiving was great. I think though, what, what's interesting or most interesting to me about this story and actually the Verge covered this quite well. So this is a piece from David Pierce who is an incredible writer now at The Verge.
(00:50:42):
And essentially what he was talking about is by shutting down by shuttering its DVD service, it kind of proved that Netflix wins. So it closing its own doors is proof that the Netflix model is the one that works. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Netflix DVD is an, is absolutely secondary to Netflix's larger streaming business. And Netflix kind of ate its own lunch, I guess is the term or the, the terminology in creating that streaming version of the service. And so the fact that, you know, now it doesn't really need to ship out DVDs that folks can just go online and stream. It is proof that streaming is, is the way, I mean, we've seen as time has gone on, there's less of a focus on physical media. There's still, you know, the, the holdouts and there will always be people who like DVDs and Blu-rays of course are the, the modern technology.
(00:51:51):
 But a lot of people, they buy their tv at least where I'm from you, you get your tax return and then you upgrade your tv mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and your TV has an internet connection and you watch Netflix and Hulu and all the apps that are there. Some people go a step further and they get a set top box and then they do it all from there. Some people use their cable service that has sort of smart TV features as well. So the, I would, I would argue that the average person is most likely using streaming built-in to something that they have, you know, maybe you buy the Xbox. Yeah, I
Jason Howell (00:52:31):
Would, I would imagine so. Yeah.
Mikah Sargent (00:52:32):
And they, you know, they use the apps there. So I'm not surprised to see this closing, but again, it was a bit of a kick in the nostalgia <laugh>.
Jason Howell (00:52:41):
Yeah. I mean, 25 years, I was just looking up because I remember I had this faint memory of, of back in the day, the day being when Netflix shipped more of its movies than it did you know, streamed online and how Netflix shipments occupied this insane percentage of total like US Postal Service activity. I was trying to find like, what are the numbers? I couldn't find it, but I did find an article from 2010 that that noted that the previous year the bright red envelopes made their way into the homes of 12.3 million subscribers nationwide. So you can imagine the amount of those things flying around. Wow. And I remember when when, you know, my wife and I had Netflix in the kind of the golden years of the, of the mailing, you know, envelopes thing. And you know, I think we were on the three plans.
(00:53:40):
So at any given time we had, you know, the ability to have up to three red envelopes and, you know, you mentioned managing the queue and I, I so remember going in there and being like, what is the next one we wanna see? And it's so different from now. Cuz now it's like, what do I feel like right now then it was planning you're watching mm-hmm. <Affirmative> like, what, what am I gonna wanna watch in two days or tomorrow? It's gonna be this one, so put it up at the top of the queue. Hopefully we get it in time so that that can be the movie that we watch, you know, then on, on Thursday or whatever the case may be. It had to be a lot more intentional about it. And and also I, I recall Netflix being, you know, very kind of I don't know the word poo poo-pooed <laugh> because they were, they were trying to make this streaming thing legitimate thing, you know, a thing that people wanted to use.
(00:54:32):
And I remember in the early days of Netflix streaming, I mean the library was horrible. It was, it was like no one wants to watch any of the movies that are actually on Netflix. You know, it was never top tier movies. It was always kind of like the stuff that you'd see at the bin in like Walmart, the three DVDs for $5 mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it was always those, you know. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, <laugh>. It was like o okay, I guess it's better than nothing. Right. There's probably some good stuff in there, you know, but that's really changed over the years. And now this is just how the, you know, how we get our, our, our streaming media.
Mikah Sargent (00:55:05):
Yeah. You know, and all of the, you know, major licenses exist there. Yeah. I was checking to see what it costs. So it looks like it's 7 99 plus tax for the DVD service. And if you want blue Rays, then it's 9 99 plus tax for the blue rays. And so that's per month to have the DVD service. And yeah. Though I need to find the D V D that's at home right now so I can send that in and get what's next in the queue. <Laugh> I guess at some point I added some films to the queue, but I'm gonna try to run this out, you know, I might as well go ahead and check out what is available. Yeah. and, and be able to watch those, those films before they closed down in September. So,
Jason Howell (00:55:51):
I mean, and it used to be that it made sense to still do the mailing if you had a really nice home theater. Right. And you had like a Blu-ray player and you know, full surround sound system. But there's been so many advances in streaming, in streaming codex compassion. Yeah. Streaming audio compression, all that stuff that now it's a lot less necessary, although I'm sure purists Oh yeah. Would probably say
Mikah Sargent (00:56:16):
There will always be.
Jason Howell (00:56:17):
Yeah. Heck no. I will only ever watch, you know, a Blu-ray. I will never watch streaming. Why would I taint my eyes with that poison <laugh>?
Mikah Sargent (00:56:24):
I don't scratch my corniness with those pixels. Yes. Scott Wilkinson was just on ask the tech guys last Sunday this, this past Sunday, and I had talked to him, you know, about his own thoughts on a streaming media versus physical library and what he saw as the benefits to the, the physical library. And he was saying, yes, you're going to get a much in, in theory you're, and in many cases I guess you will get the better quality because of the, the less compression that's there. Right. And also you're not dealing with buffering and all these other possibilities for how sort of over time as you're watching something, it might vary in equality so you get a consistent quality overall. And then he said that, of course, the other benefit is if you own, so it doesn't quite apply to in this case, but if you own the physical media, someone's not gonna come to your house and take it away cuz a license. There's
Jason Howell (00:57:26):
Always, there's always that Yes.
Mikah Sargent (00:57:28):
Versus streaming where sometimes stuff is available and sometimes stuff is not available because they've taken it away. So Yeah. I know that, that folks have also used Netflix's DVD services a way to build their own personal library of, of content. There are means and methods for that we for sure we'll talk about on the show. But for sure the New York Times in kind of talking about this has said that it could be looking as this could be a way for Netflix to save a little bit of money in the long term since it did miss its revenue guidance. Mm-Hmm. because then it's cutting back on fees for shipping and everything else. So as the company look as, I mean, many a tech companies seems to be looking for cost cutting measures for sure. Honestly, I'm not, I'm, I'm a little surprised that they haven't gotten rid of it, rid of it sooner.
(00:58:25):
You know what I mean? Because I, if you have the choice of letting people go and cutting back on spending on media, all the different method, it's like, this one does seem to be the gl Oops, lemme turn that around. So you don't think that it's fake like it is. <Laugh> then you see the glaring issue that is the the costs of of just running this business Yeah. Of sending out disks to people. So yeah. September we will see the end of Netflix, D v D and thanks In the meantime, Netflix, dvd, v d for at least giving me access to some films I couldn't find in other places. Yeah.
Jason Howell (00:59:04):
I mean, that was one of, its one of its strengths. Even, even today with its, you know, streaming catalog, which is not perfect. None of them are, but their mail-in library is very substantial. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like very complete and you can find a lot of stuff there you can't find anywhere else. I'm curious to know if we'll ever, if we'll ever be clued into like a liquidation, how do they liquidate all that stuff?
Mikah Sargent (00:59:27):
Yeah. Are these just gonna go into a landfill? Are they going to be melted down and turned into a giant statue of a Netflix DVD envelope, <laugh>
Jason Howell (00:59:37):
Sell, sell 'em for a bucket piece on Yes. On eBay or something, or I don't
Mikah Sargent (00:59:41):
Know. Yeah. Something,
Jason Howell (00:59:42):
Something. They, they certainly have extra life to them. I, I hope, I really hope they don't just melt them down and put 'em into a, a landfill. But yeah. All right. Well the last half of today's episode, it was like no nostalgia, heartstrings
Mikah Sargent (00:59:57):
<Laugh>. Yeah. If we just do some subtle what, why did I say piano as I strummed, as I like play the violin. That was odd. <Laugh>, you know,
Jason Howell (01:00:07):
Piano. It's okay. I hear it with my ears. I can hear it even though, wait real quick.
Mikah Sargent (01:00:13):
My, what was the first movie again? Scoob. No,
Jason Howell (01:00:16):
No, no, no, no. That that was yours was
Mikah Sargent (01:00:17):
The first movie. Oh, I'm not telling you. Really? Yeah. Cuz if I say it two more times, he's gonna
Jason Howell (01:00:23):
Come. Oh, I see what you were doing. You're smart. He's, he's, he's in cahoots with Beetlejuice.
Mikah Sargent (01:00:29):
Oh, that's the second time.
Jason Howell (01:00:30):
Dang it. I shouldn't have done that. Yeah,
Mikah Sargent (01:00:32):
We definitely don't wanna see Beetlejuice. Ah,
Jason Howell (01:00:35):
<Laugh>. All right. Well before he comes in here and makes life really difficult for us all let's end the show. Tech News Weekly publishes every Thursday at twit tv slash tnw. That's where you can go to subscribe to the show in audio and video formats. You will not find Beetlejuice on the page.
Mikah Sargent (01:00:53):
And sorry I'm distracted by Beetlejuice. If you would like to get all of our shows ad free, please check out Club TWiT starting at $7 a month or $84 a year. You can join the club at twit.tv/clubtwit. I mean twit TV slash club twit. When you head there, you can become a member and you get a lot of great stuff by becoming a member. You get every single Twitch show with no ads. It's just the content because you in effect, are sponsoring these shows. You are the support. So you get to have that content pure and clean. You also get access to the TWiT plus bonus feed that has extra content you won't find anywhere else behind the scenes before the show, after the show and special TWiT events that aren't published elsewhere. It's a great opportunity and there's a lot of content in that library that, you know, joining now you'll get to have access to.
(01:01:47):
Plus you get access to the Club TWiT Discord server. It's a fun place to go to chat with your fellow Club TWiT members. And those of us here at TWiT super easy to use too. You just download the Discord app on your phone or on your computer. Whenever you sign up, you'll have an easy, it's just a button you can press to sort of glog into Discord. You'll create your Discord account and then from there on you've got a place to chat. And we've got lots of obviously Club TWiT members who are there in the Discord, but also many a TWiT host and producer or a panelist or a contributor all there in the Discord regularly chatting away. So please consider joining the club twit tv slash club twit. When you do, you're also going to gain access to some great shows that are exclusive to Club TWiT.
(01:02:34):
There's the Untitled Linux Show, which is a fantastic show all about Linux. So for all of you Linux fans out there, consider joining. So you can get that. You can also watch Paul T's Hands-on Windows program, which is a show full of tips and tricks that are a way for you to make the most of your Windows pc. And there's also Hands on Mac, which is a fun program. Well, you know, I'll let you be the judge cuz I am the host of it. But it's a great, it's a great way to stay up to date with apple features, including the Mac, the iPhone, the iPad, your Apple Watch, all of Apple's various devices and the newly relaunched home Theater geeks featuring Scott Wilkinson. It is a great program. I can say that for learning about the home theater, for making sure you've got the best features set on your devices and learning from the Home Theater guru himself, Scott Wilkinson.
(01:03:39):
 I also want to mention that if you are a member of the club so you won't hear this ad, so maybe I shouldn't say it during this <laugh>. We'll say that at another point. Anyway, so thank you so much. To those of you who are considering subscribing at TWIT tv slash Club twit, please head there, check it out. Consider joining the club and supporting us directly. If you'd like to follow me online, I'm at Mikah Sargent on many a social media network. So please consider following there and then also check out my shows on Thursday. Of course, I do Tech News Weekly, but also hands on Mac. For those of you who are members of the club on Sundays, I host Ask the tech guys with Leo Laport, who will be back for this Sunday's episode where we take your questions and answer them live on air and on Tuesdays I host iOS Today with Rosemary Orchard, we've got loads of tips and tricks for IO s Alright, Jason Howell, what about you?
Jason Howell (01:04:42):
You can find me at Jason Howell on Twitter social slash at Jason Howell on Mastodon coming soon to Blue Sky cuz I've installed it, but I haven't really said it. Whoa, whoa, whoa up yet. <Laugh> all about Android every Tuesday, TWiT tv slash a a a talking Android and stuff. And we're kind of heading into Google io season, so there's gonna be some big hardware coming, so it's a good time to check that out. And then, yeah, I've filled in for Leo on this week in Google yesterday, so if you haven't seen that yet, you should check it out. We had a lot of fun. We always do. But that's all there is to know about me. Big thanks to John. Big thanks to John. Big thanks to Burch <laugh>. Everyone here at the studio help us, helping us do this show each and every week. We couldn't do it without you guys, and we couldn't do it without you watching listening each and every episode. Thank you so much for doing that, and we'll see you next time on Tech News Weekly. Bye everybody. Whew.
Ant Pruitt (01:05:38):
Goodbye. Hey, what's going on everybody? I am Aunt Pruitt and I am the host of Hands On Photography here on twit tv. I know you got yourself a fancy smartphone, you got yourself a fancy camera, but your pictures are still lacking. Can't quite figure out what the heck shutter speed means. Watch my show. I got you covered. Want to know more about just the I ISO and Exposure Triangle in general? Yeah, I got you covered. Or if you got all of that down, you want to get into lighting, you know, making things look better by changing the lights around you. I got you covered on that too. So check us out each and every Thursday here on the network. Go to twit tv slash hop, subscribe today.