The Tech Guy Episode 1910 Transcript
Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.
Leo Laporte (00:00:02):
Podcasts. You love from people you trust. This is TWiT. Hi, this is Leo Laporte and this is my tech guy podcast. This show originally aired on the premier networks on Sunday, July 10th, 2022. This is episode 1,910. Enjoy the tech guy podcast is brought to you by Melissa poor data. Quality can cost organizations an average of 15 million every year. Make sure your customer contact data is up to date. Gets started today with 1000 records cleaned for free at melissa.com/twit. Well, Hey, Hey. Hey, how are you today? Leo? Laporte here. The tech guy. Yeah, it's that time. Once again, time to talk computers, the internet home theater, digital photography, smartphone smart watches, all that jazz. Eighty eight eighty eight ask Leo is the phone number (888) 827-5536 as toll free from anywhere in the us or Canada outside that area. You still need to call via Skype or something like that.
Leo Laporte (00:01:15):
Some sort of internet do Hickey. You Skype out to call 88 88 ask Leo. And the good news is it's a toll-free number. So it shouldn't cost you anything to do that 8 8 8 8 2 7 5 5 3 6 website tech guy labs.com. That's important to remember because if you hear something and I often say, well, I'll put a link in the show notes. That's where show notes, live tech guy, labs.com free no sign up. You're welcome more than welcome to Peru at SIA. This is episode 1910, so you can go there. There will be links, the ones I mentioned links to stuff I talk about. There should also be after a couple of days of transcript Sundays, we put up the playlist for professor Laura, our musical director. Those of you who hear the show on the radio will hear those songs. We don't put those songs. Somebody's asking me, what are the songs?
Leo Laporte (00:02:05):
Are you keep talking about the songs? I don't hear the songs cuz cuz he's listening to the podcast. And well, you know how that is with licensing song licensing, you know that you know how that works. So the radio station play pays for the song licensing. They have an ASCAP BMA license, but it only covers the broadcast on the radio podcasts, whole nothing, whole nother payment of which I have not made. So <laugh> I haven't done it. No. So we take the music out simple enough. So, but if you wanna know what the music was or you wanna re-add it, you could do that. We put the list of songs played up on the show notes, tech ilab.com do it Sunday afternoon. We'll also put audio and video from the show at transcript, all that stuff@techilab.com Friday apple opened orders for the new MacBook air featuring Apple's new M two chip. And I guess really the only question is, should you buy it?
Leo Laporte (00:03:13):
Should you buy it? I don't know. You're asking me what he has. Oh, I'm the tech guy. That's right. I should have an opinion. I do have an opinion. The previously apple has released the 13 inch MacBook pro, which is probably shouldn't be named the pro it's the 13 inch low end MacBook with the M two chip. And there have been a lot of stories. Mostly YouTubers seems like YouTubers are the only ones who really test this stuff. That's not true, but YouTubers are the only ones who really need you to click that link and watch the video cuz that's how they make their money. So they tend to be maybe over a little over dramatic in their assessments. You've seen the thumbnails, ah, the YouTuber screams his eyes wide and amazement. The MacBook pro is so hot last year. I dunno.
Leo Laporte (00:04:13):
It was two years ago. The YouTuber famously took the 16 inch MacBook pro and put it in the freezer and said, anyway, it works a lot better in the freezer. Well, yeah. Is, is this new chip, this new chip from apple hotter probably cuz it's bigger. It's got more stuff going on. So you know, it's doing more stuff. It's prob it's the same. And this is important and will be by the way for a while the same microprocesor process, oh this is gonna get a little complicated when they make these chips. As you probably noticed, you're getting more and more chip stuff, more and more functionality in a, in the same size or smaller size package. That's because the processes are shrinking they're shrinking. So the, you know, the 80, 88, which was the first Intel chip to go on an IBM PC back in 1981, I don't even know what, what you'd call the process, how big the traces are, it's they, they sort of, it's not exactly, but they sort of, the idea is they measure the size of the, of the lines of the, of the wires connecting the circuitry because of course the smaller, these wires are the more transistors they can get on a chip.
Leo Laporte (00:05:40):
And as a result the more powerful these chips are, this is what we call Moore's law Moore's law. So that was, which was the number of transistors in a chip double every 18 months. And it's, it's held true for quite a while. And it's really what's powered. The technology revolution is that these chips double in power effectively every year and a half double doubles, a lot doubles 2, 4, 8, 16 32 6428, 256, 512, 1024. You know, doubles is a lot <laugh> every, every 18 months. And that's why we've, you know, got these little, so the original 80, 88, which, which was put in the 1981, IBM PC had 29,000 resistors, 29,000 resistors. And it was it's it's it was a three micrometer node. We're now at three nanometers. Micrometers is a millionth of a meter. Nano oter is a billionth of a meter. So it was 1000 times.
Leo Laporte (00:06:59):
Those lines were 1000 times fatter and it had 29,000 transistors. The current M two chip from apple is five nanometers, five billions of a meter. So it's almost a thousand times smaller and it has 30 billion chips. Remember the 30 billion compared to 29,000. Okay. So we've, we've <laugh> in, in the intervening 44 years, we've made some pretty big jumps, the smaller weirdly the smaller these traces, this process, the cooler, the chip runs. And yet you could put more stuff on it, which means the hotter it runs. So if it's the, so anyway, it's still a five nanometer node for the M two. So it's the same process as the M one. You follow me here, same process, but more transistors, almost 50% more transistors more stuff like eight KD coders and stuff. So M machine language stuff, and it's bigger. So it's hotter cuz it's the same process.
Leo Laporte (00:08:10):
It's not gonna be any cooler. So it's hotter. So all, all of this to say it's hotter, boy, that's a long way to go to say it's hotter. It is hotter than the old chip. And what apple did with this new 13 inch MacBook pro is they put it in the same exact case as last year's M one same fan saying everything, same, everything. So is it gonna be hotter? Yes, <laugh> it's gonna be hotter. And is the MacBook air gonna be hotter? Well, the new MacBook air is not the same case as the old MacBook air it's redesigned looks to have a little more room. It's not a wedge anymore. It's square still. No fan there's a fan in the pro, but there's not a fan in the air. Will it run hotter probably. Now why does that matter? When a chip gets hot, if it gets too hot, it has to slow down.
Leo Laporte (00:09:01):
It's like a car it's overheating. So slows down, cools off a little bit. And so what people, what YouTubers were seeing on the new MacBook pro with the M two chip, the first M two device was it would, it would get to a pretty high temperature and then slow down. You know, what all laptops do. Then the only question is how fast it gets to that high temperature. How, in other words, how much work you can do before it overheats, if you're buying a MacBook pro and maybe you wanna do things like encode video or launch rocket ship, something that requires the processor tool processors to work hard for more than say 20 minutes, then cooling becomes very important. You probably shouldn't buy a MacBook pro 13 inch. You should wait for the bigger one with more fans, more air or even a desktop. But most people buy the MacBook air are not launching rocket ships with that.
Leo Laporte (00:09:58):
That's, you know, the air is for general computation surfing the net, getting your email, buying PS dispensers on eBay, the important stuff. And for that, it's fine. So the question back to the question, should I buy a MacBook air? The new one? Well, it's pretty comes with four colors, midnight blue. That's pretty tempting. It's almost black. It's dark blue. It's very tempting. It's pretty did I say it's pretty it's a newer design has the newer chip, which is, you know, you know, average can be about 20% faster than last year's M one. So it's a little faster. Remember not after a few minutes, you know, after 20 minutes, you're gonna slow down cuz it's getting hot and maybe that's gonna happen faster this time than it did last year. That kind of thing. If you are looking to run big, long running workloads, then you probably shouldn't get this.
Leo Laporte (00:10:52):
If you want a light thin laptop, that's faster and good for the stuff you do. This is a good choice, especially if you don't have an M one yet, if you're still on an Intel, you know, really, if you say to me, I have an Intel Mac, should I get the new M one or M two? I would say yes, these are so much better. Yes. There's only a few exceptions. People who have specialized needs, all of which to say apple has released the new M two MacBook air. They announced it on Friday. And if you go to the store now and say I want to, you know, special order it with a little extra memory, cuz it can go to 24 gigs. Now I maybe a nice, big, hard drive, two terabytes. You won't be getting until August at the earliest. In fact, let me check.
Leo Laporte (00:11:37):
Cuz it's slipping. Apple finally is being finally. It's not good, but I'm just saying is being hit after all this time, unlike everybody else with supply chain issues. So if you max out, let's see what the, what the delivery date is August 10th. If you just get the base model, but let's say I want to so I wanna, you know, I, this is a nice computer. If I'm gonna get it, I'm gonna get 24 gigs. That's another $400, two terabytes storage, just another $600. How much, how long is that gonna? Well actually comes a little faster. That's August 2nd. That's interesting. That's kind of not what I thought. So the base model's taken longer. <Laugh> anyway you're still gonna be waiting almost a month, August 2nd through the ninth, almost a month to get it. That's also part of the equation. Will apple have more new computers this year?
Leo Laporte (00:12:34):
Yes. Lots more new new iPhones. Yes. In September. We'll have a new apple watch. Yes. In September we'll have new iPads probably in October. So there's, that's always the case. Right? There's always something. So there the answer to your question, that's the, you know, that's, that's the story. New max are out. Should you get one? Yeah, if you have an Intel, it would probably be benefit. If you've got a little money in your pocket, some spare change it's I think a hundred bucks more than it was. It was last year. Yeah. These things, you know, I happen. These things happen. Yes. Probably. Probably worth it.
Leo Laporte (00:13:13):
Yeah. Battery life. That's a good question. Is the battery life better? I, I think it's the same, which is better. <Laugh> cuz it's it's got more going on. You know Apple's funny cuz they're they're not that specific. They say things like you can run it for 14 hours watching movies. They're careful not to be too. Let me look and see what we're getting here on the MacBook air. The air is not as as lesser, lesser about her life than the pro. All right. Tech specs, MacBook air, learn more tech specs. Jump ahead here. Battery life. 18 hours, apple TV app, movie playback. 15 hours. Wireless web. That's pretty good. My experience with M one has been it's so long that you don't really even pay attention to it. You know, you just charge it. When I bring them out for operator, get me transatlantic. When did this song come out? 1925. <laugh> hello there. Kim Schaffer, the unbreakable phone angel. Our operator get great transatlantic. Pronto. I do not
Kim Schaffer (00:14:35):
Remember that song at all.
Leo Laporte (00:14:37):
Sheena Easton <laugh> or as we call her Sheila E no, I know it's somebody different. Don't know John. John
Kim Schaffer (00:14:45):
Is over. They're
Leo Laporte (00:14:46):
Laughing. Keep
Kim Schaffer (00:14:47):
Laughing at me with his lack of voice.
Leo Laporte (00:14:49):
<Laugh> yeah, he has no voice, but he is laughing. So it comes out like
Kim Schaffer (00:14:53):
<Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:14:56):
It's nightly whiplash
Kim Schaffer (00:14:57):
Last show before for two weeks.
Leo Laporte (00:15:00):
What for you? Oh yes. Micah. Sergeant will be filling in for me on Saturday. You'll be here though. Right? I will be here. Sunday will be a we, we generously call a best of
Kim Schaffer (00:15:11):
<Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:15:12):
Some something somewhere from a tape somewhere. And then the following Saturday, I'll be back again, Micah. And then I return on the 24th. Right? Cause I'm going probably you'll advise, but I'm going to Alaska on a cruise. Seems like a good idea. We planted a year ago. We thought, oh, this COVID thing will be over by then. Yeah. But everybody on board is vaccinated and wearing a mask and you have to test before you get on. So I figure, I figured, I figured it's pretty good. It's gonna be oh, pretty. It'll be pretty good. It'll be pretty
Kim Schaffer (00:15:40):
Good. I do feel sorry for the people who will be left at the dock.
Leo Laporte (00:15:43):
Well, yeah. That's why I'm really nervous. You notice? I told John test. I, you know, I said, I'm not coming near you because I'm nervous if I got it now. Yeah, I, I would. And I don't think you get, I don't know if you get your money back. I don't think you do so I don't want to get sick. I
Kim Schaffer (00:15:58):
Don't know.
Leo Laporte (00:16:00):
So hello, Kim. Scheffer <laugh>
Kim Schaffer (00:16:02):
How are you? I'm okay. How are you doing? I'm good. Good.
Leo Laporte (00:16:05):
What should I too? Should I want
Kim Schaffer (00:16:07):
You wanna go to Philip and Dayton or not? Philip? He said Phil. I said Philip, Phil, Phil, and Dayton, Ohio.
Leo Laporte (00:16:13):
I've had my fill of you. Thank you. There Kim. Hello? Phil in Dayton, Ohio. Leo. Laporte the tech guy.
Caller 1 (00:16:20):
Hey, how are you doing? I am, I am formally known as Philip, but I prefer Phil. So either in either way she had it.
Leo Laporte (00:16:30):
I like Phil. I like Philip. I had an uncle Phil. Oh really? Oh yeah. Many, many moons ago. Yeah.
Caller 1 (00:16:37):
Oh, that's cool. Great uncle. I want to it's this is a little complicated. I'll make it as simple as I can. I actually have two questions. About six years ago I rescued a couple of really nice Samsung monitors from my employer's e-waste bin. Okay. Prepared them. And I've slapped them on a human scale arm. I for my home computer. Okay. And they've been working. Okay. I mean, beautiful monitors. They're 1600 by 1200 resolution windows 10. Nice, nice. Unfortunately the arm over time, because these monitors are pigs and they weigh about 20 pounds a piece.
Leo Laporte (00:17:20):
Oh, they're heavy
Caller 1 (00:17:21):
Started. Yeah. Started thinking down to the point where it's almost over my desktop and I can't get it to stay up.
Leo Laporte (00:17:28):
Oh.
Caller 1 (00:17:29):
So I have extra monitors around and I said, you know, I'll switch these off to some newer white screen monitors. I had a pair of HP wide screen that are 1920 by 1200. I swapped them off and they're brighter and they're nicer and all this kind of stuff, except for one problem. What I have a little bit of macular degeneration, Uhhuh, and consequently, the dialogue boxes and the text and things that come up on the new higher resolution monitors are all smaller and they're difficult to read. I had them scaled better on the Samsung, but everything reset when we hooked up the new monitors. Yeah. So I've gotten into some things in windows set up and there's places where you can do some very gross adjustments to text sizes and that sort of thing, but it doesn't seem to be universal. And there's a lot of system text boxes that pop up,
Leo Laporte (00:18:29):
Hold on a sec, gotta take a break. Samal Sam, the car guy coming up, but I will finish our conversation before that Leo LaPorte the tech guy. So there's two ways to adjust what you see on the screen on windows. There is a DPI adjustment, but that won't, that's what you're playing with. And that does not affect everything that only affects things that pay attention to it. What you really wanna do is go in the monitor settings and choose a different resolution and that will change everything.
Caller 1 (00:19:06):
But does that make things less sharp?
Leo Laporte (00:19:12):
It depends a little on the monitor. We were talking about this yesterday. Normally you'd want it to be an integer division ratio. So you want it to be half a quarter of the native resolution. So let's say the monitor's native resolution is 2160 2001 60 lines from top to bottom. That's 4k divide that in half as 10 80, that should be as crisp as 2160 because it's exactly half divide it by a third. And depending on the monitor, it may or may not look a little jaggy. Of course, as you think about it, if you're scaling a pixel, if you've got two pixels and you turn it into one, it's not gonna, or rather one pixel turn it into two, that's not gonna make it more jaggy. But if you take one pixel and try to do one, one third, that's gonna make it more jaggy. So right. But some monitors handle that quite well. In fact, apple monitors, we were talking about this yesterday with regard to apple monitors are by default, often scaled to one and two thirds, things like that. Really weird scalings, but on your monitor, which one? What is, it's not the Samsung now. It's what is the new one?
Caller 1 (00:20:22):
It is an LA 22 LA six X, which is HP compact.
Leo Laporte (00:20:29):
Oh yeah. They said HP that's right. So I don't know, offhand off the top of my head how the HPS will handle it. Monitor monitoring monitors are pretty good about fractional scaling, so, okay. Try, all you could do is try it, it ideal. Ideally you would, if it's a, if it's a 10 80 P monitor, you probably don't want to go down to five 40 because that's, that's really low resolution. So there you're gonna maybe try seven 20. But if you can do that in the display settings, if you don't see all the choices then there are little programs you can add to do it. The, but, but again, when windows scales to DPI, it's doing the kinda the same thing. If you said it to 125%, which I guess is what you probably did that is not fraction.
Leo Laporte (00:21:18):
That is not an integer fraction. But it's, it still looks okay. So those are the two things to play with. DPI windows used to be a little more flexible with scaling monitor DPI. I don't know if I are you on windows 11 or 10 or 10, 10. I'm looking at 11 and they, it doesn't, it's no longer a DPI setting. It's a different, it's ch it's a weird setting. But you could play with, so those are the two things to play with. You play with the control panel. It's not gonna affect every app. Every app doesn't have to respect it. You play with a resolution, the apps don't even know. They just say, well, that's the resolution of the screen. That's what we're gonna, that's what we're gonna do. So that will affect everything. And, you know, given you're having some macular degeneration, obviously Biggers better, you might try seven 20 for, for somebody with normal vision that might be awfully big.
Leo Laporte (00:22:08):
They might say, wow, that text is big for you. You might go, ah, that's the sweet spot. I actually, you know, as I get older, I make my on all my phones. I make my text big da, da, da. Let's talk about your contacts. Let's talk about your contacts, your database, our sponsor for the tech guy podcast this week. The really great folks in Melissa, who I know well and love, and I really love the business they're in because it's so important. I've told this story before Al used to from I, I could say name names, I guess, restoration hardware. You know, they have a beautiful catalog. We bought all our furniture for the studio from restoration hardware. So I was on their mailing, right? And we had beautiful, full color. It's about a two inches thick catalog. At one point I was getting three of them to the same name and address three.
Leo Laporte (00:22:56):
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Leo Laporte (00:23:57):
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Leo Laporte (00:25:41):
They're SOC two HIPAA GDPR compliant. Melissa's been doing this for 37 years, 37 years as the experts in data quality, more than 10,000 businesses known as the address experts. And if you sign up for a service level agreement, 24 7 world renowned support from their global support center, Melissa, M E L I S S a, you need this, make sure your customer contact date is up to date. Get started today with 1000 records cleaned for free melissa.com/e L I S S a melissa.com/twi. Let me thank him so much for supporting the tech guy show you support us too, by the way, simply by using that full URL that way they know you saw it here, melissa.com/twi. Thank you, Melissa. Leo Laport, the tech guy, Sam bull, Sam, our our fabulous car guys here, principal researcher guide, house insights, podcaster wheel bearings dot medium. We were talking to Phil.
Leo Laporte (00:26:40):
I just wanna wrap that up before we get into the car talk, Sam Phil was saying, you know, he has a new HP monitor but it's a little too small for him to read. He has macular degeneration, which means it gets harder and harder to read small text. And so there are two ways to scale a windows machine. One is in this display control panel. There's a section called scale and layout, and you can set the scale from a hundred percent, which would be normal to 125, which would be bigger. In fact, I see on my, on my Dell laptop, one twenty five, a hundred twenty 5% is recommended, but you can go all the way up to 200% and you should just set it for whatever makes you comfortable. Not every app will follow that recommendation. So right below it, at least on windows 11, I suspect it's the same on windows 10. There is a display resolution setting, and you could play with that as well. And see what's be what suits you best, where it's not jaggy, where you can read it, make yourself comfortable. That's really the, the rule. Make yourself comfortable. Maybe, maybe for you 1280 by 800 or seven 20 would be the preferred resolution. So go ahead and try that. And the nice thing is you can play with it until you get something you like Sam bull, Sam, it all the way from I Slan good to see you. How's how's it going, Sam?
Sam Abuelsamid (00:27:59):
It's going great. The weather's beautiful here. It's not too hot. You know, it's in the low eighties, not humid. The sun's shining it.
Leo Laporte (00:28:07):
Perfect. So jealous how nice we're getting into the nineties up here. It's getting hot. So
Sam Abuelsamid (00:28:12):
I'd be heading out there in a few days.
Leo Laporte (00:28:14):
Oh, good. Come by. That's right. In fact, maybe we can get, oh, we're not gonna be here when you're here. <Laugh>
Sam Abuelsamid (00:28:19):
Yeah. We're we're getting in Wednesday afternoon, so,
Leo Laporte (00:28:21):
And we're leaving Thursday. <Laugh> yeah. And probably packing Wednesday nights. So, well, have a nice visit. I know it's I know for you it's vacation with your wife, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. So you're sitting in front of a beautiful little BMW. Is that an I three? I seven.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:28:37):
It is an I three. Yeah. C
Leo Laporte (00:28:38):
I three. Okay.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:28:39):
Yeah. It's it's the, the little oddball and the BMW lineup their first dedicated EV that they built they, they launched it in 2013.
Leo Laporte (00:28:49):
It looks like a martini olive as early EVs. All, they all look like martini olives to me.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:28:54):
Well, you know, this, this particular car was spawned out of a project that BMW did called the megacity project which started in 2007 and what they were doing was they, they were trying to figure out what is the right kind of car for the, the megacity of the future. You know, and mega cities are defined as cities of population of 10 million or more. And the number of mega cities around the world is growing, has been growing steadily over the last couple of decades and we'll continue to grow. And so what they came up with was the I three, which is kind of a, it's a little bit tall, but it's short, you know, it's got a nice, small physical footprint on the road. It's easy to drive around in cities and park it's electric. It doesn't have a huge amount of range. And the reason I brought it up, because in fact the I three is actually going out of production this month. They're ending production of it after isn't
Leo Laporte (00:29:48):
My wife's electric mini pro, basically an I three sled
Sam Abuelsamid (00:29:53):
It's it's based on the hard it uses the hardware, it uses the motor and the battery, and some other components from, from the I three, but it's in a different form factor. So it's not as tall, it's lower, it's smaller. But it it's using the, a lot of the same hardware. So
Leo Laporte (00:30:06):
Her battery is similarly small and yeah, typically under a hundred mile range, it's not very long range.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:30:12):
Right. And the I three, when they launched it, the original version was about a hundred mile range. By the end of its run, they had put a bigger battery in there. So it was about 140 mile range. And the reason I bring it up, even though it's about to go outta production is I got an email this week from listener on KFI to the, to the radio show, her name's Gina. Hi, Gina. And she she sent the email in to feedback at wheel bearings, stop media, and anybody else has got any questions, feel free to use that address and, you know, send, send your questions. And I'll either try and answer 'em here or on wheel bearings, the podcast. But her question was I listened to on Leo's radio program and KFI, and even though I'm not a huge car person, I enjoy listening.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:30:57):
I purchased a used 2017 BMW I three for $17,000. About 18 months ago, I had a battery charger installed at my home. Good, good plan. I only get about 150 miles on a full charge, so I'm limited where I can go. However, I generally stick close to home. Anyway, if I do need to travel, I'll rent a car, which is actually a really great solution because most people, you know, 90% of daily trips are less than 40 miles a day, and it's only relatively infrequently that you need to go further. And this is actually a really great solution is, you know, to ha have a shorter range, EV that's gonna be less expensive uses less battery, and it's gonna be more efficient. And then, you know, for those occasional times, when you need to go further, go rent something rent a gas or a diesel car.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:31:42):
Anyway, I'm just wondering what you think at what point should I consider trading it in, in terms of its life expectancy. I do like it very much beyond all that. So you know, this car her Gina's car is only five years old. It's probably got, you know, relatively low mileage on it. It's I would guess it's probably got no more than probably 35 or 40,000 miles on it. Maybe, maybe even less. And it's, you know, because this particular car uses a carbon fiber structure it's not gonna rust. So corrosion's not gonna be a problem. In fact, I mean, since she's a KFI listener in Southern California, it's probably not gonna rust anyway, but but even if you were living somewhere else, you know, an I three is not gonna have rust problems. So the battery should be in, in probably still in really good condition. And you know, this car should easily last, you know, the battery should go at least a minimum of 10 years and retain most of its original capacity. And the, the rest of the car itself will probably last 20 years or more easily, just because, as I said, it's, it's, it's a carbon fiber structure and the suspension parts are metal, but and
Leo Laporte (00:32:53):
It's not gonna rust, no erosion sold out here.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:32:56):
Yeah, it should. It should go for a long, long time.
Leo Laporte (00:32:58):
It's 10 years based on say 10,000 miles a year. Is it by miles really? Or, well,
Sam Abuelsamid (00:33:04):
Yeah, well, the, the, the traditional rule of thumb in vehicle design over the, over the years, and actually it should probably be adjusted upwards. But when I first started as an engineer in the early nineties, you know, most components were designed for a 10 year, 150,000 mile lifespan. You know, so 15,000 miles a year, 12 to 15,000 miles a year is the average that most, most consumers drive. So that 10 year, 150,000 miles is what most stuff was designed for
Leo Laporte (00:33:36):
150,000.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:33:37):
Okay.
Leo Laporte (00:33:37):
But it's really the number charges and discharges, isn't it, at least it is for a phone or a
Sam Abuelsamid (00:33:41):
Laptop. Yeah. Charge charging cycles. You know, so, you know, but this, you know, the, the battery in, in this vehicle is warrantied for eight years, a hundred thousand miles. There you go. And it, you know, based on the, what we've been seeing data we've been seeing from real world use, most EV batteries are lasting, you know, should, should last well over 10 years. And the average age of new cars on the road today is over 12 years now, even though they're, they're designed for 10, they tend to last a lot longer, 25, 30 year old cars are not at all uncommon. So,
Leo Laporte (00:34:13):
You know, there's an issue though at the end of the life of these batteries, I, I ran into a guy the other day. He said, I'm putting all my money in gas and oil. I said, oh, really? He said, yeah, because as soon as people find out that these batteries have a massive recycling, you know, end the life problem on these electric cars, they're gonna stop buying them. Is that true? True,
Sam Abuelsamid (00:34:31):
No. These, these batteries are all gonna be recycled. And in fact, a lot of 'em are already being recycled. There's a number of companies that are doing recycling and the, the, the automakers and the battery manufacturers are counting on that recycling to get the raw materials, they need to make new batteries. Mm. So they don't have to mine so much. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> cuz it's gonna be a lot cheaper to get it from recycled batteries, Redwood materials, which was started by JB. Strobble the former CTO of Tesla. They're already recycling enough batteries every year, enough batteries and scrap material from batter production for six gigawatt hours of battery production, which is about 60,000 vehicles worth of batteries every year. Wow. and so that's
Leo Laporte (00:35:16):
Good cuz the cobalt theme, all of those things. Yeah. You know, they're hard to mind that it's ugly.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:35:21):
Yeah. Battery battery recycling is actually pretty straightforward. Good. And this, this is something that's gonna be expanding dramatically. You know, it hasn't, we haven't done a lot of it up till now because we haven't got that many end of life batteries yet, but it's going to expand dramatically over the next decade.
Leo Laporte (00:35:35):
Sam bull, Sam, listen to his podcast wheel bearings. You could find it at wheel bearings, media and wherever you get podcasts. Thank you Sam.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:35:47):
Thank
Leo Laporte (00:35:47):
You. So is the recycling close to a hundred percent or
Sam Abuelsamid (00:35:51):
Yeah, I mean, you know, they're, they're not, they're not stuffing these batteries into into landfills. You know, what, what we're getting is a mix of, you know, they're either being recycled or they're being put into second life applications using, using them, repurposing them for stationary storage. For example, you know, at EV charging stations, you know, even if a battery has only got 60, 70% of its original capacity you know, or, or even a little bit less, if it doesn't have to move around, you can still use a battery with 50% of its original capacity for stationary storage at a DC fast charging station. And then you don't have to pump as much power into the charger. You, you can store the store, the energy, you can charge the batteries continuously, store the energy there and then feed the battery into the charger in those bursts when it's needed for, for fast charging. What
Leo Laporte (00:36:44):
Happens when the battery is just fully used up? Can you
Sam Abuelsamid (00:36:46):
Take well at that point, you, at that point, you take it out and recycle it and
Leo Laporte (00:36:50):
You can recycle the component materials.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:36:52):
Yep. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (00:36:53):
Well
Sam Abuelsamid (00:36:53):
That's they use a process called hydrometallurgy where they, they literally take the, the battery modules and they put them through a giant shredder. It looks like a paper shredder, but on a much larger scale, shreds it into the little strips and they put it, mix it with a solvent that separates all of the component materials, the nickel, manganese, cobalt, copper, aluminum, lithium, and extract all that, reprocess it right back into the same materials that, that are ready to go back into new, straight back into new battery production. And that's what Redwood and, and some others are doing right now. So Redwood is getting batter used batteries and battery scrap from both the Tesla Panasonic battery factory in Nevada, as well as the ASC plant that supplies Nissan in Tennessee, that's about 50% of their batteries. The other 50% are consumer electronics batteries.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:37:47):
And then reprocessing that material and sending that, selling that back to Tesla you know, and it's cheaper than the than the, the Virgin materials. So manufacturers love using it. And there's also some, some good evidence that it actually produces better performing batteries because every time you re you cycle them, you're actually relining that material. So you're taking up more of the impurities that are in there in the Virgin material. Hmm. And you actually get better performance out of it on second, third use. So it's, it's you know, it's something that I, I don't see that end of life being a problem, you know, there there's a, there's a whole bunch of new recycling plants being built along with all the new manufacturing plants over the next decade. And so they, they will get taken care of properly.
Leo Laporte (00:38:40):
Good. That's reassuring.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:38:43):
Yeah. Hey, I've, I've got a question for you. I sent an email to you and Lisa earlier in the week. I don't know if you saw it, just asking if you had any suggestions about good places to eat in the
Leo Laporte (00:38:55):
Oh, oh, oh yeah. I would mean to answer that. So you're gonna be in Kernville.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:39:01):
Yeah. That's how it's yeah. Near there. Yeah. Airbnb near there.
Leo Laporte (00:39:06):
There's French laundry. But that's probably too late to get a reservation. But if you, maybe if there were a cancellation, that's a Michelin three
Sam Abuelsamid (00:39:16):
Fresh LA is over in Ville. Yeah. That's not Ville is the other way it's
Leo Laporte (00:39:21):
I mean,
Sam Abuelsamid (00:39:22):
Rosa it's
Leo Laporte (00:39:23):
It's half an hour drive, but Ville itself
Sam Abuelsamid (00:39:29):
Or, you know, over towards the coast, you know, towards bodega bay.
Leo Laporte (00:39:32):
Oh, you should definitely go to hog island and have, have some oysters. We also like Nick's Cove, which is
Sam Abuelsamid (00:39:39):
Also over. Yep. I already got a, a recommendation for
Leo Laporte (00:39:42):
Somebody. Yeah. I like Nick Cove. That's kind of funer but but a lot of fun. You're not far from Santa Rosa. I'm trying to think what the best restaurants in Santa Rosa are. Petaluma. Yeah. You don't,
Sam Abuelsamid (00:39:57):
If you think of, if you think of something, just shoot me a
Leo Laporte (00:39:59):
I will. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. You wanna stick around for the top? Yep. Quite a screen. There must be somebody with printer problems, Leo Laport, or maybe <laugh> it's a tech guy getting called with printer problems. Leo Laport, the tech guy, 88, 88, ask Leo. It came, it came. I'm so excited. It looks like a Fisher price toy, but this is from snap. You know, the folks at Snapchat, it is a pixie selfie, drone, a pixie selfie, drone. All the influencers will be carrying these around because <laugh> now you can do a selfie from a drone, I guess it's kind of self-explanatory you put it in your hand and you go fly little pixie fly, and then it takes pictures of you video or stills, which it then uploads to Snapchat. Well, isn't that sweet? It, I think this, I think red con five.
Leo Laporte (00:41:05):
This has to go with us on the, on the cruise. Don't you think? I think so. The pixie, it is pretty, you know, there are other companies selling selfie drones. In fact, after I ordered this, somebody said you knit it. You can get it. Cuz I think this is like 250 bucks. You can get it for half the price from, you know, some Chinese company. So I did, I got the cheap one and it's terrible. The camera is awful. So I'm hoping, we'll see. I'm hoping this pixel will be better. I'm gonna charge it up. Maybe by the end of the show, I'll be able to to use, I should use it in the studio cuz for sure. If I use it on the cruise, it'll be gone forever. Almost. <laugh> almost certainly eighty eight eighty eight. Ask Leo the phone number. If you wanna talk high tech, Vincent's on the line from Las Vegas. Hello Vincent.
Caller 2 (00:41:54):
Hey Leo. How are you?
Leo Laporte (00:41:56):
I am well, how are you?
Caller 2 (00:41:58):
I'm hot. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (00:42:00):
Well, I thought you were pretty hot, but now you've confirmed it. What's
Caller 2 (00:42:06):
Up? Yeah. It's gonna be 110 today. Oh
Leo Laporte (00:42:09):
Ow. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Caller 2 (00:42:11):
111 on Monday and Tuesday.
Leo Laporte (00:42:14):
And you choose to live there.
Caller 2 (00:42:16):
Yeah, I know.
Leo Laporte (00:42:17):
<Laugh> actually I love Vegas. We were thinking about getting a retirement home there. I wouldn't mind it. Are you in Vegas? Proper or Henderson or somewhere like that or
Caller 2 (00:42:26):
VA Vegas proper. I'm about a mile from the strip. See
Leo Laporte (00:42:29):
That's where I'd wanna be. Cuz that's where all the fun is.
Caller 2 (00:42:31):
Right? Exactly.
Leo Laporte (00:42:33):
Well, what can I do for you? My friend?
Caller 2 (00:42:36):
Well, I have had a motor route. I'm a neck year motor router for a little over a year and it's been working great except starting last week. It's started dropping connectivity and I would have to reset it every three to four hours and then I would be up and running again. So trying to troubleshoot it, I went into the logs and saw what the error messages are. And when I ran down, one of them, I went through the first four fixes, none of which helped. And then we got to the fifth, which says your modem router is probably going out. Oh
Leo Laporte (00:43:09):
No.
Caller 2 (00:43:10):
So I went online and doing my due diligence, reading up on all these modem routers. And as I'm reading the reviews, six to 7% of almost every modem router says the same thing with a one star review loses connectivity within a
Leo Laporte (00:43:27):
Year. Ah, yeah. Yeah. And I have to get
Caller 2 (00:43:29):
It and, and it doesn't matter whether it's a 3.0 a 3.1, whether it's a hundred dollars modem or a $250 modem, it always seems that the biggest complaint on the one star reviews is that after a period of time within a year it loses connectivity. Huh? So my general question to you is, is this something that is happening more and more frequently today with modem routers? Is there a sure bet. I mean, I'd rather not rent one for $13 a month. Of course not buy one
Leo Laporte (00:44:05):
And you don't have to combine the modem and the router, by the way, you can buy a standalone cable modem. That's what I do. In fact, I have a net gear CMS, 1000 that is a quite a good modem router modem. And then I have a separate router. I'm I think what's going on.
Leo Laporte (00:44:26):
I'm gonna guess what's going on here is it's a heat problem. You know, those things, typically they're computers, they have a processor, they have memory, they run software firmware. But typically they don't have fans cuz people have 'em in the living room. They don't want to hear. Mm. So they're not cool. They're passively cool. And I bet you, if you feel it, especially if there's a lot of, there are a lot of bits going through it, it feels pretty hot. And that would kind of, that would make sense. If it's wearing out in a year, it's not supposed to wear out in a year. You probably could improve the life of it by putting a fan on it, blowing on it, you know getting better cooling, make sure it's not in a cabinet or closet where it's not cooled off keeping it. Cool.
Leo Laporte (00:45:09):
And that's hard in Vegas. I know. I'm sure your place is air conditioned, but keeping it cool would probably add to the life and you ask, well, is this happening more often? Probably because you're putting more bits through it than ever before. Right. And and so more bits means hotter. Plus combining a router and a modem into one hot little box is also gonna make it a little bit more prone to overheating and heat is death for processors. It really is. It just, you know, after a while it just, it just wears out. I bet you, this is common in Vegas. So couple of solutions. One is to get a standalone cable modem. In fact, you, you might even be able to, so is your, is yours your neck gear already dead?
Caller 2 (00:45:59):
No, it's still it. I said every three or four hours I have to re reset it.
Leo Laporte (00:46:04):
Yeah. So neck gear sells a very good gigabit speed cable modems one I use at home it's docs three, one it's under 200 bucks cm, 1000. I have had mine for years without any effort, any problem or anything, you know, it's good. Now I use a big old ubiquity giant rack Mount router. So and it's got fans, believe me, the thing is noisy. Plus I added it's in a closet. So I added fans to the closet to keep the closet cool and a, an event to the outside world. So this thing is intentionally cooled and then it's been very reliable. So that's one possibility just you could continue to use the, the router part of that and just get a standalone cable on separate amount that will get some of the heat out of there. Interesting. And I, I think it has to be heat. The other thing you could do is you could blow a fan across it. It has it's ventilated. Does it have holes on it?
Caller 2 (00:47:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, sometimes it does feel hot, but now again, I don't need, I only have 50 MTBS it's not, or MP
Leo Laporte (00:47:11):
BPS. Yeah. That's not a huge amount. Certainly a gigabit would be a lot hotter 50 megabits, you know, that's, that's not a huge amount, but if it's a consistent 50 megabits. Yeah. I mean, that's what you should do. You should feel it is feel hot to the touch. That's the only, these are all solid states. So that's the really heat or, you know, moisture, which I'm, I'm sure it's not wet. No heat or moisture is probable. In fact, it's the only thing I can think of that would be causing the problem. It's not the, it's not the wifi stopping. It's the, it's just, you don't have you lose connectivity. You have to rebooted to get connectivity. Is that right?
Caller 2 (00:47:49):
Well, yes. What, what I do, I, it doesn't seem to affect the connectivity for like my apple TV and streaming
Leo Laporte (00:47:57):
Out. Cause they're hardwired, right?
Caller 2 (00:47:59):
No, no, they're not. That's they're not, that's the thing. That's strange. It's only my phone and my computer that lose the connectivity.
Leo Laporte (00:48:06):
Well, that's interesting.
Caller 2 (00:48:08):
Right.
Leo Laporte (00:48:09):
Are the is the, is the apple TV closer to the net gear?
Caller 2 (00:48:13):
No, I could have my phone right next to the next year, you know, box and it still doesn't work
Leo Laporte (00:48:19):
Well now I'm wondering what's going on. That's interesting. Tell
Caller 2 (00:48:23):
Me about it. So am I,
Leo Laporte (00:48:24):
Those can be that those can be very common and very difficult to solve problems having to do with you know, internal settings like MTS and TLS and all these things that, that, you know, there was a, for a while, apple laptops were banned on college campuses everywhere because they were so aggressive about acquiring an IP address. They they'd knock off the rest of the systems on the network. And so they had to ban them, you know, there's things like that. That can happen. But my experience with neck year, I don't have a, a dual cable modem router. I have standalone and I've used standalone routers for them and there's very good equipment. And it doesn't seem odd. It seems odd to me that would die a lot. Yeah, I'm not sure. And that's really weird that your apple TV continues to stream without any problem while everything else is dropped out. And then resetting that does sound like a DHCP problem. Sounds like a different, a software problem. Hmm. Leo Laporte the tech guy. Let me think how you could see that because you're, you're, you're, you're, it's not distance. It's not a weak signal. It sounds to me. In fact, one thing you could try with the computer in the phone. Well, it started to do with the phone, but you could do with the computer is to refresh the DNS or the DHCP. So if you go in the network settings, you can reacquire an IP address and see if that fixes it.
Caller 2 (00:50:06):
If it's or about the phone though.
Leo Laporte (00:50:07):
Well, F just see if it fixes it, cuz that'll tell you that's what's going on. And it's probably going on with the phone. I don't know what the, I'm not saying there's a permanent fix. We're just trying to figure out what's going on. So if, if that does fix it though, then that is a, it's not an overheating problem. It's not a failure problem. And in fact, I don't think it is now because you tell me the apple TV never has this problem. Right. It doesn't ever drop out.
Caller 2 (00:50:31):
Well, it, it does eventually it will.
Leo Laporte (00:50:33):
Oh, it will eventually. Yeah. It's just not at the same time.
Caller 2 (00:50:37):
Not at the same time. It seems like it, it keeps the signal and I can even bounce using airplay. And even that lasts longer than the phone, the computer connection.
Leo Laporte (00:50:48):
And it's all wireless,
Caller 2 (00:50:50):
It's all wireless.
Leo Laporte (00:50:53):
Yeah. It sounds now more like it's a D H C P possibly a DHCP issue. So as you know, what happens with a router, it has the public IP address. And then it will route traffic coming in from the outside world to individual devices. Each of which has their own local address in net here. Sometimes it's a 10 dot. Usually it's in 1 92 0.1 68 dot local address. And the router's job is to say, oh yeah, the apple TV's got this stream. So when traffic comes in for that, send it over there, the laptop is on this port, send it over there. That kind of thing. Occasionally what'll happen is you get DHCP problems. And by releasing the DHCP and renewing it, that's the, that's the term that you'd see, I think in the control panel. Let me see, are you on windows or, or map?
Caller 2 (00:51:46):
Yeah. We're renew DHCP lease.
Leo Laporte (00:51:48):
Yeah, that's it, that's it renew DHCP lease. Try that. If that fixes it without a reboot, then that's telling us there is a DH C P error in the net gear and that's a router problem usually. And probably in fact, maybe this is the first thing to do is make sure you have the latest firmware on that net gear.
Caller 2 (00:52:13):
Yeah. That's and of course the firmware is sent by the manufacturer. Not by me.
Leo Laporte (00:52:18):
No, that's right. That's right. I feel like you should be able to, well, at least try that. That's the first thing to do is see if renew and re release and renew fixes it. If it does, then we know it's not a ISP issue, nor is it a overheating issue. It's it's it's a, it's a software issue. It's a DHC issue of the router. If it, if that doesn't fix it and it's still, and like it goes, they all go out eventually. I think it's just overheating. In which case you you're gonna need to get a new one, I think. Or you could try putting a fan across it. I think that'd be kind of an interesting thing. Sam's minutes, 30 seconds.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:52:57):
All right. So James was asking about this proposed bill in North Carolina, which is actually the other topic of,
Leo Laporte (00:53:06):
Oh, this is a joke. This guy, there's no way this is passes. This happens all this time. And I wish the press did not give it so much credence cuz that's what these idiot legislatures just want attention.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:53:19):
Yeah. Ezra Dyer, who's a writes for car and driver. It's this, he actually lives in the district that this bozo represents. And
Leo Laporte (00:53:29):
He's proposing that all the electric charging stations be taken out,
Sam Abuelsamid (00:53:34):
<Laugh> all the, all the free electric charging stations, unless unless, unless they also put in free gas and diesel pumps as well.
Leo Laporte (00:53:40):
It's so moronic.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:53:42):
Yeah. And it's
Leo Laporte (00:53:42):
Not gonna pass unless the North Carolina legislature is equally moronic across the board.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:53:49):
Well,
Leo Laporte (00:53:49):
Which is possible.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:53:50):
Yeah. I don't really want to get into politics too much here, but it's, it's not, it wouldn't be the craziest thing that we've seen happen,
Leo Laporte (00:53:57):
But
Sam Abuelsamid (00:53:58):
We've Republican controlled
Leo Laporte (00:53:59):
Legisla. True. But we've also seen grandstanding legislators. Yeah. Do this all the time and they know, they know it's not gonna pass, but they want the intention. Right.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:54:08):
And, and the reality is, yeah, I mean this proposal only applies to free chargers, which are, you know, in general only level two chargers. So these are slower chargers, slower AC chargers. They're usually similar to, to home chargers, you know, usually about six to seven kilowatt output. So, you know, these are not ones that you're likely to use. You know, these are, these are the types of chargers you're gonna use if you have a shorter range, EV and you're just stopping somewhere to do some shopping, do a little opportunistic charging. You know, these are not chargers that you're gonna use on road.
Leo Laporte (00:54:44):
And is he saying only state run ones or is he saying all
Sam Abuelsamid (00:54:48):
I haven't seen the text of the bill. It sounds like he wants to get rid of all free
Leo Laporte (00:54:51):
Chargers. Yeah. So let's say I am a mall and I want to encourage people to go to my mall and I have some free chargers there. It's not costing me much cuz it's a slow charger. Yeah. I just want people to go there. Oh, I'm gonna have to take it out or offer free gas. Okay, fine.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:55:06):
Yeah. I mean that's, that's ridiculous. You know, the, the DC fast chargers which are the ones that, you know, most people probably want to use. Those are all for pay. None of those are free to use. So you know, those wouldn't be theoretically wouldn't be impacted by this. So yeah, you're right. It's just grandstanding, you know, this is not something that we're likely to see be a major issue anywhere else. It
Leo Laporte (00:55:31):
Is really fascinating though. How people offended people are by electric vehicles. For some reason.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:55:37):
I know it's,
Leo Laporte (00:55:37):
That's puzzling to me, I guess we, I guess we love our gas vehicles. I'm I'm not sure what it is or maybe the coal and gas lobbies are just so I don't know what it is. I don't, I don't get it. I mean, oil and gas, not coal. Yeah. In fact, coal would benefit from electric vehicles probably at least in some states.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:55:56):
Yeah, absolutely. Although, you know, I don't think we wanna encourage using cold the electricity for EVs because that would kind of be counterproductive you know, counterproductive to using EVs but Eric Tuckman also had a comment in the chat about the way EV chargers are configured which is, you know, especially if you look at the the, most of the Tesla supercharges, you know, they're usually set up where the, the chargers are configured at the, the back of a parking space, you know, and for the Teslas, for example you know, the expectation is you're gonna back into this parking space. They usually have a fairly short cord on them. And Teslas are all configured with the charging port on the left rear corner of the car. So if you back into the port, you know, the, the charging cable's right there that's not always necessarily convenient for other makes of vehicles.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:56:53):
And you know, but most other chargers are, at least right now are still configured in roughly the same way. So you'll have a, a bank of chargers, you know, sitting along the back edge of some parking spaces at a mall or, you know, store or somewhere else. And you back in there, or pull in forests depending on where your charging port is and plug it in that, you know, that's generally okay, you can, you can make that work if you're you know, if, if you're just driving your vehicle and you're not towing a trailer, for example what we are starting to see now is more charging stations being configured with the chargers set up more like the way gas pumps are set up at a gas station where you pull through and you pull up beside the charger, and this is really important if you are using, if you're towing with an EV because if you're, if you have to back into a charging spot, like, especially if you have something that has a charging port on the, one of the rear corners of the vehicle, like a Tesla or a pole star, or a Volvo or a number of other vehicles you would either have to pull in front of multiple chargers and block multiple chargers.
Sam Abuelsamid (00:58:09):
So other people couldn't use them, or you would have to disconnect your trailer and then pull in and then reconnect your trailer after you charge. And that's a real hassle to, to have to do. So we're starting to see electrify, America's got about 8% of their locations now set up with at least some pull through chargers, and they're gonna be doing more. And, and other companies like EV go and, and others are doing more of these, even Tesla is starting to configure some supercharger locations this way so that you can just pull up next to a, a charging port plug in and charge and considering how much range you're gonna lose when you're towing a vehicle well towing with an EV. You definitely wanna make that as convenient as possible, cuz you're probably gonna be charging on a fairly regular basis with those vehicles. So we, you know, as the number of EVs and the different types of EVs and use cases for EVs continues to grow, we're gonna see the charging networks evolve to adapt, to support those different use cases.
Leo Laporte (00:59:11):
Mr. Sam Abul, Sam. Thank you so very,
Sam Abuelsamid (00:59:15):
And I won't be around next Sunday. I can't remember if you said you're doing a best to Rere. It's good.
Leo Laporte (00:59:21):
Yeah. Okay. So no problem then. Thanks all well. Hey, Hey. Hey. How are you today? Leo Laport here, the EEC guy. Yes. It's time to talk computers, the internet home theater, digital photography, smartphone smart watches, electric vehicles, smart vehicles, autonomous vehicles, eighty eight, eighty eight. Ask Leo is my phone number. If you wanna ask a question, make a comment, make a suggestion. You can also call outside the us and Canada where it's toll free, but you have to use Skype out to do that. 8 88 8 2 7 5 5 3 6 should be really tollfree globally. If you use the right equipment to reach us there's a website tech guy, labs.com. That's where everything, I mention all the links and everything will go. So you can go there and you don't have to write anything down. This is episode 1910 and it's free tech guy labs.com. No sign up. No nothing, no nothing. Michael. He is on the line from long beach, California. Our next caller. Hello, Michael.
Caller 3 (01:00:22):
Hey will. How are
Leo Laporte (01:00:23):
You? I am well, how are you?
Caller 3 (01:00:25):
Good calling in with, you know, with Scott Wilkinson gone yesterday. I know I wanted to such
Leo Laporte (01:00:31):
A loss.
Caller 3 (01:00:33):
His memory will live until next week.
Leo Laporte (01:00:35):
What you's exactly. He'll be back next week.
Caller 3 (01:00:39):
Carson said, I remember this honor, as long as it takes me to get to my car.
Leo Laporte (01:00:43):
<Laugh> you sound like Johnny, when you do that very well.
Caller 3 (01:00:46):
You just gotta close the,
Leo Laporte (01:00:48):
Yeah.
Caller 3 (01:00:50):
So I had a couple of kind of budget sound like home theater sound systems to recommend oh, good. Purchased in the last couple months that have been fantastic for me. First one is for my home office. I've got the way it's set up. I've got the only way to put a TV is on like a, a, a extendable Mount in the corner. So I've got a hang a speaker down. I had like a 2.1 built in like Amazon essential sound bar that would rattle, unfortunately, cause the date in the sound that's
Leo Laporte (01:01:20):
Not good. So
Caller 3 (01:01:22):
I said, I gotta redo this. Yeah. The TCL Alto six plus 2.1 channel Doby, audio soundbar. It's a soundbar with a subwoofer. It's a wireless subwoofer. You, I have it on a Mount under the TV and the subwoofer is kind of right nearby in the corner. It's in my home office, which is like a 10 by 12 room. I've got a 43 inch 4k TV, not a, it's a TCL, not a super fancy one. But I'm, you know, sitting like about my viewing distance is about four feet cuz I just pivot my office chair, put my feet in the day bed and, and watch. And it's fantastic. It's really, and it's a hundred dollars. Wow. For the it's unbelievable. It's perfect for like a small room where you can't set up like a surround system. And I've got I'm, you know, I'm late in my life, you know, right in the middle, but I still have very good hearing and <laugh>, it's clear as, I mean I'm a musician as well. So like I lucky
Leo Laporte (01:02:23):
I like, I like to get reviews from musicians cuz of course you're very much more aware of what you're hearing.
Caller 3 (01:02:27):
Yeah. Like I was, I, I, I was a, a, I called you before I was an opera singer. Yeah. And like I recognize voices. Like if you do a drop the needle, I'll tell you who that singer is. Wow. Or if you're playing something I'll be able to hear the highs that nobody else is hearing. And the, the specifics of the STR and it's the clarity for the price for a hundred dollars is unbelievable. And it's great for a, for a small room.
Leo Laporte (01:02:51):
I'm looking at other reviews from places like Tom's guide and arching. And they also agree for that price. It's a great choice, has a remote control. Yeah. Which is nice.
Caller 3 (01:03:01):
And, and obviously it'll work with arc on, if you have HDMI, I have a Roku TV and a, a, a Firestick 4k max is fantastic.
Leo Laporte (01:03:11):
Yeah. A lot of people are saying good things about those. I, I, I've always been reluctant to, I've had a fire stick and always reluctant cuz I feel like the sticks tend to overheat, but, and of course all the ads from Amazon, but boy, I'm hearing more and more good things about this 4k fire. It,
Caller 3 (01:03:25):
It comes with like a little dongle that takes dongle, that hangs. So it hangs a little bit off it's
Leo Laporte (01:03:30):
Little cooler. Yeah. Yeah. It's
Caller 3 (01:03:32):
A little cooler, but I had a, the previous 4k stick and this is like wing and this is all on wifi. It's probably doing like a two point cuz of like the router is it's 10 feet away, but it's in another room between a wall, but it's lightning fast, a huge upgrade. And it's, I'm sure it'll be on sale
Leo Laporte (01:03:49):
$29. $29. Yeah. Wow.
Caller 3 (01:03:53):
And then the other one for a kind of a living room set up is the VI M series 5.1.
Leo Laporte (01:03:59):
Those are very good. In fact, Scott has consistently recommended those as lo for less expensive sound bars. Yeah.
Caller 3 (01:04:05):
Yeah. It's like a three, $330. I think it paid for it. It's a sound bar that does at most, you know, as it can,
Leo Laporte (01:04:12):
We reviewed it when it first came out and really liked it. So that's oh
Caller 3 (01:04:16):
Yeah. Two little rear speakers. It's I had an Ono kind of in the box system from before that I, I had to remove, we did our floors that we redid our floors in our house. So I had to tear apart, you know, my home theater system. And I said, well, I don't want all these wires anymore. Cause it's essentially the rear speakers connect to the sub woofer. Right. So if you put the sub by the couch, you can put the, the two thing and I bought a couple stands for them, for the rear speakers. So there's no wires running across
Leo Laporte (01:04:40):
In general. You're tempted with the sound bar to say, well, that's gonna do everything. I don't need a subwoofer. Any the surround speakers. Well you do, you do, but you really do. Absolutely do. I mean, certainly by itself, a soundbar, even the $99 soundbar will be a massive improvement over your TV's audio. But for best results you want a Suber and, and ideally surround speakers as well. And that the VIM series will do that, which is nice.
Caller 3 (01:05:04):
Yeah. No, it's, it's great. I, I said, you know, my wife was, why are you doing that? I'm well, and I said to my nine year old son, Jackson, this is how this should sound. He's like, Ooh, Ooh,
Leo Laporte (01:05:13):
This is better. The movie theater sound pops.
Caller 3 (01:05:16):
Yeah. If you ever need a man, not half the age, but <laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:05:22):
Somebody with still good ears is what you're saying. And I get it. I understand.
Caller 3 (01:05:26):
Yeah. Scott's not rolling his eyes.
Leo Laporte (01:05:28):
<Laugh> Scott. And I both admit that because we're in our sixties or, you know, our hearing isn't as good as he used to be. Although I, I still have, I think of course I'm biased, pretty acute hearing. I can hear problems in audio for sure. So oh yeah, yeah. That's part of my business. So you know, and I, and I appreciate good sound. I have to say it makes a big difference.
Caller 3 (01:05:48):
Makes all the difference in the world, all the difference the world. Even if you have, even if you don't have a, like a thousand dollars TV, if you have some decent, good sound, it, it, as long as it's a 4k picture, it's a great picture. It absolutely elevates everything.
Leo Laporte (01:06:04):
Completely agree. Yeah. Sound is a very important part of movies. Hey, it's great to talk to you, Michael. Thank you for the review. Highly recommendation for the TCL six plus sound bar 99 bucks. And then for your higher end, the Viseo M series, I think you have the 5.1 0.2 version, correct?
Caller 3 (01:06:24):
Yeah, that's the same three 30 bucks, but it's nice for a decent sized living room and yeah. Nice. Yeah. For the price. It it's fantastic.
Leo Laporte (01:06:32):
Very good. Hey appre, I always, you know, it's nice. Everybody calls they take, take take every once in a while. Somebody's gonna give, I appreciate that. You
Caller 3 (01:06:41):
Feel like I couldn't be Mike at talking about microphones. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:06:46):
I appreciate the call. Thank you, Michael. Thanks care. They take and they take, I'll put links in the show notes to both devices, if you're curious and you wanna know more and obviously it goes kind of fast. So finding them is always tricky, but the TCL Alto six plus 2.1 channel soundbar for the very low end, if you're willing to spend a few more I agree. And Scott I know agrees as well. The Visiom series they have a couple of soundbar in that line, but he was talking about the five.one, two premium premium premium soundbar, 88, 88, Ashley, the website, we'll put those@techguylabs.com. I'll put the links there so you can you can get them. I also put them in the chat room. We have people who chat with us while we're doing the show. Your team tech guy, always great to have them at IRC Whit TV gig. Chris mark photo guy.
Chris Marquardt (01:07:45):
Hello?
Leo Laporte (01:07:46):
Hello. One, one.
Chris Marquardt (01:07:48):
I'm trying to find something to J with. I could use the slice water. How
Leo Laporte (01:07:51):
About a gesturing with the camera? So how was your family?
Chris Marquardt (01:08:00):
Don't make that sound. We live in the countryside. Don't make
Leo Laporte (01:08:04):
Flights that time of year. I know. I
Chris Marquardt (01:08:06):
Hate the fly. Yeah, family's good. Parents are okay. Was a good weekend.
Leo Laporte (01:08:10):
Good. Yeah. I had a great week with my mom, so I know just how you feel. Yes. It's nice to, nice to visit the old ones. This the it's
Chris Marquardt (01:08:20):
It's too bad. It's like it's an eight hour. It's an eight hour drive. One way. That is
Leo Laporte (01:08:24):
That's worse. It's only a five hour flight for me. That's eight hours. Wow.
Chris Marquardt (01:08:30):
Wow. Well, five hour flight plus plus time to get to the airport.
Leo Laporte (01:08:34):
Well, yeah, it ends up being all day. One way or the other. Yeah. Yeah. At least I don't have to drive
Chris Marquardt (01:08:38):
Anyway. Seeing, seeing your parents is worth it all the time. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:08:43):
I, it was so nice. And then of course leaving my mom. We're just in tears cuz she's 89. I don't know how many times I'm gonna get to see her again. It's just, it's a special, very special.
Chris Marquardt (01:08:52):
Sure.
Leo Laporte (01:08:54):
Okay. You send me something. Should I pay
Chris Marquardt (01:08:56):
Attention? Yeah, we, we're not, we're not gonna show pictures. We, we will talk a bit about okay. The most awesome. The coolest camera in the world.
Leo Laporte (01:09:05):
Oh, how nice did you see? I got my Snapchat selfie, drone. That's the coolest camera in the world. No, look at that. Maybe I'll
Chris Marquardt (01:09:12):
Do what does it do?
Leo Laporte (01:09:13):
Well, you put it in your hand and you throw it in the air and it takes a selfie.
Chris Marquardt (01:09:18):
That's all it does. Yeah. <laugh> is it, is it autonomous? Is
Leo Laporte (01:09:22):
It? Yeah, it's totally autonomous. You don't have controls. It's got switches for, I don't know what they're
Chris Marquardt (01:09:29):
Different. I'd like to get one of those.
Leo Laporte (01:09:31):
Well,
Chris Marquardt (01:09:32):
I mean, I, it is not that I don't have enough selfies, but that's
Leo Laporte (01:09:36):
Cool. Well, I'll be playing with it. The <laugh> I got a cheap one. This one's a little pricey, I think is like two 50. I got a cheap one for less and it was, the camera was awful, but I'm thinking this is gonna be better. I'm hoping.
Chris Marquardt (01:09:52):
Snap snap does a good, yeah,
Leo Laporte (01:09:54):
They're gonna do a good job. This has got their name all over anything. And then of course I have, I'll
Chris Marquardt (01:09:59):
Have to look that thing. You totally, totally missed that thing.
Leo Laporte (01:10:01):
It's the pixie PI X, Y, but I do have a very nice, the new DJA. Mini three is fantastic. <Laugh> fantastic. I love that. Oh, the best camera ever. Yes, I agree. We're gonna do a live
Chris Marquardt (01:10:22):
Stream. We have already talked about it, but new things are happening in,
Leo Laporte (01:10:26):
We're gonna do a live stream on that Tuesdays of the press conference. Yeah. With rod and and company. So that's gonna be fun. All right. I'll talk to you in a few.
Chris Marquardt (01:10:37):
All right.
Leo Laporte (01:10:47):
I feel like should be doing some Irish jigs here. Michael flatly, Leo Laport, your tech guy, Lord of the dance. Eighty eight eighty eight. Ask Leo the phone number eight eight eight two seven five five three six. Toll free Trevor on the line from Bernabee Canada. Hello, Trevor. Wow. <laugh> I think Trevor might be in the monkey cage. I don't know Phil on the line from Avada, Colorado. Hello, Phil.
Caller 4 (01:11:25):
Hello Leo. Thank you for taking my call. And it's nice to talk to you again.
Leo Laporte (01:11:29):
Thanks for calling what's up.
Caller 4 (01:11:32):
I have a question about mobile networks. I have been a long time Verizon customer, but I know on the show you from time to time speak very highly about T-Mobile. I recently read an article in TC magazine, which I'd like to know what whats your opinion of is the accuracy of that. And T-Mobile one the best mobile network for 20, 22 hands down. Wow. I'm just, I'm just wondering if there's any validity to the PC magazine review and whether
Leo Laporte (01:12:06):
Or not is it Sasha Segan? Who did the review, do you know? Yes, it is. Yeah. Yes it is. Sasha's great. Yeah.
Caller 4 (01:12:12):
Okay. Yes,
Leo Laporte (01:12:13):
He did totally trust him. He does this every year and it's a big deal. They go out because it, you know, unfortunately it's hard to test mobile networks because it, what I get here is gonna be different from what you're gonna get there. Right. So to really test it, you have to go all over the place. Sasha will literally go to a, like, I don't know, 50 or 60 places to test this. He says we drove more than 10,000 miles across the country with new software. Oh, this is cool. That tracks dropped calls. Yes. Which is a very good, so they've, I don't know of anybody who, who is as good as this. There are some other places that will give you measurements, but I think often they are in the pop back pockets of the mobile phone companies. And I could tell you, PC magazine is absolutely not. They've been doing this for more than a decade.
Caller 4 (01:13:07):
So would you recommend that? I give some consideration to changing my iPhones over to T-Mobile. Is that
Leo Laporte (01:13:15):
Well, here's the thing <laugh> Sasha went all over the country, but all you care about is what it's like in Arva Colorado, right.
Caller 4 (01:13:23):
Which is close to Denver. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:13:25):
Yeah. I mean, it may be that you go all over the country you know, and if you do, then you probably should pay attention to these kinds of national ratings. But frankly, all that really matters to most people is how well it works, where you are. And there are a couple of things to pay attention to at and T T-Mobile and Verizon all are starting to rule out 5g networks. And that could be relevant if you have a late model phone that supports 5g that could be relevant at and T and T-Mobile are, are doing these new mid band 5g Verizon as well. And it's it. So all of the sales pitch around 5g was around what we call the millimeter wave, the very high frequency 5g. It's so high frequency that it only goes about 800 meters. So unless you're within 800 meters of a specially configured cell tower, and by the way, there aren't many of those, you're not gonna see it.
Leo Laporte (01:14:23):
You're not gonna get it. You won't get the benefit of it. Mostly it's in metros, you know, a few blocks in New York city in Philadelphia that are gonna get the 5g millimeter wave, but that's super fast, but that's what they advertise around. Then there is what T-Mobile has, which is the low band, the 700 megahertz, low band 5g. And that's essentially identical to LTE, no faster. So it's, you know, it begs the question, well, why should I care if I have 5g or 4g? It doesn't matter. And that's roughly true. There are some benefits, but you're not gonna really see it. What, where both where these companies are now coming into their own is this medium band in between T-Mobile calls it ultra capacity. I think Verizon calls it ultra wide band. I don't know what at and T calls it, but if you're in an area that can get that, probably not Arvada, definitely Denver, you will notice a big leap.
Leo Laporte (01:15:21):
And again, if you can get it from Verizon, but not T-Mobile, Verizon would be a better choice for you. If you can get it from T-Mobile and not at and T then T-Mobile. So it really is very localized. They do. I mean, I'm looking at the numbers for T-Mobile. Their network looks pretty good. The draft calls are identical across the board, failed data connections actually T-Mobile's worse, but only by one percentage point than Verizon speeds. Aren't really that different. In fact, Verizon has the ha fastest maximum, cuz they've got that millimeter wave. You're not, again, who cares. You're not gonna get it. But my experience with the T-Mobile and Verizon I've, I have both, I fuck both in front of me right now is if you can get those middle band ones. And for instance, I can't get it where I am right now.
Leo Laporte (01:16:08):
But when I go over to DMV, which is right next to the highway in Petaluma, I can get the altered capacity. That's 150 megabits. My daughter who lives in San Rafael, also near the highway. There's a little clue here, by the way, in this also gets 150 megabits down, 30 megabits up. It's fantastic. It's as fast as you would ever need on a mobile phone. I don't know why you'd need gigabit on a mobile phone. It's certainly as fast as you'd ever need. Right. <laugh> right. So by the highway is kind of an interesting phrase. These companies of course know that the biggest usage is people in cars. So the first place they're gonna put these towers is by highways. So, and the last place they're gonna put 'em is rural areas. You're a suburb of Denver, right? Arvada.
Caller 4 (01:16:55):
That's correct.
Leo Laporte (01:16:55):
Yes. So it's not, it's not rural per se. They're
Caller 4 (01:17:00):
No we're but we're, we're several miles away from Denver. It's within quick driving distance.
Leo Laporte (01:17:06):
Do you work in Denver or do you work in town?
Caller 4 (01:17:09):
No, I work in town.
Leo Laporte (01:17:10):
Yeah. So really it is gonna be very, very specific to you, you know? And that's, that's really the problem with any national test. It doesn't matter what somebody can get in New York city if you're in Denver. Right. So how do we judge, are you happy with your current Verizon? I'll tell you one thing Verizon is for sure more expensive than anybody else.
Caller 4 (01:17:33):
It is more expensive than T-Mobile. I found that out. Yeah. But I, but if I were, were to choose to go with T-Mobile, I would be able to transfer my iPhones over to T-Mobile
Leo Laporte (01:17:45):
In most. Yeah, almost certainly. Yeah. some phones are, are carrier locked. If you bought it from the carrier, it may be carrier locked. They're not, Verizon's not allowed to do it for longer than three months. I think. So they eventually they unlock it. That's they had to do a consent decree with the FCC over that issue. So if it's not carrier locked you can usually just swap the SIM and it'll work fine. I would get, if you go to T-Mobile from Verizon or Verizon T-Mobile you wanna always get a new SIM because you, you want it to support the latest frequencies. And the new SIM is required to support for instance, the alter capacity. So I, you know, best thing to do, ask a friend, ask somebody who has it in your area in Arvada and say, Hey, how do you like your T-Mobile? It is cheaper. For sure. I just got my Verizon bill was close to 300 bucks. My T-Mobile bill was only close to 200 bucks. So there you go. Yeah. I have many phones on each carrier. I have all the carriers because that's, you know, cuz I wanted to see how it works. Yeah. And there are advantages to each, but T-Mobile also has, is better for international travel if you care about that.
Caller 4 (01:18:52):
Okay. Well thank you Leo. I appreciate you're welcome Simon. I appreciate your guidance
Leo Laporte (01:18:56):
And trust. Sasha. Sasha does a stellar job. In fact, this is the kind of thing it's said that computer magazines used to do PC magazine, especially, and they do less and less cause it's expensive. Sasha has to go out on the road. It takes him months to compiles. Thank you for doing it. Sasha Segan, PC magazine. I'll put a link to their new rundown in the show notes, Leo Laporte the tech guy, you know, and the, and the, well it's not for one phone, $300 is for many phones. Verizon is the carrier that my S 20 two's on, but also Lisa Lisa's son Lisa's ex-husband <laugh>, there's quite a few of us on that account. And then the T-Mobile that's this iPhone, that's this account that my daughter and son and ex-wife use. So, you know, <laugh> and I also have a number of T-Mobile data Sims, actually, maybe my data Sims, most of them are Google five, but I think I have my iPad minis on T-Mobile data.
Leo Laporte (01:20:07):
So it's it's part of the it's part of being a tech guy is, you know, close to a thousand dollars a month in cell phone expenses. Those will, those will taper off and that doesn't include what we pay for the other hosts. So it's just, you know, that's why I'm begging you to jump join club TWiT, please, please join cheese, join club TWiT please. <Laugh> yeah, T-Mobile sent my mom a phone. I was a little upset. I said, mom, you bought a new phone. I, you already have an iPhone 13. Why'd you get an iPhone? 11 said I didn't buy it. They just sent it to me. I said, oh, I'm sorry. T-Mobile didn't know. She had the iPhone 13 thought she was still on an iPhone six S so they sent her an iPhone 11. She says, I like it. It's lighter than my iPhone 13. I said, okay, we'll take the SIM out and we can activate it. Oh no, mama. Don't you take my coat of Chrome away. It's time for the photo guy. Chris mark wet is here. Hello, Chris. We missed you last week. It's good to see you. Yeah,
Chris Marquardt (01:21:15):
I, I was busy. <Laugh>
Leo Laporte (01:21:17):
You're busy. It's okay. Busy's
Chris Marquardt (01:21:18):
Okay. I'm happy to be back. Very happy to
Leo Laporte (01:21:21):
Be back. I have been working weekends for since 2004. And then before that,
Chris Marquardt (01:21:29):
That's, that's what you get for being in the entertainment
Leo Laporte (01:21:32):
Industry. You work holidays and
Chris Marquardt (01:21:33):
Weekends, you get to work with other people are entertaining.
Leo Laporte (01:21:35):
I tap dance for you while you're at your leisure, but that's fine. I like it. It's you know, it's I pay, I get, I get people's attention. I don't have to compete. So today, by the way Chris, I should say is my photo sensei. I gotta give you the plug@sensei.photo, S E N S E I dot P H OTO recently re returned to the tips from the top floor. You weren't gone long, but TF ttf.com. The world's oldest and best photography podcast. He also does a podcast on the future of photography, talking about computational photography and has written many books on photography, all of this, because if you're a photographer, you gotta do a lot of things to stay alive. It's hard to live on just photography alone, right? <Laugh>
Chris Marquardt (01:22:21):
Very true. Very, very true.
Leo Laporte (01:22:22):
I love your books. I highly recommend them. So today you said you wanna talk about the best camera in the world?
Chris Marquardt (01:22:29):
No, the coolest camera in the world, the coolest, and I mean, it, I mean literally mean it, cuz I wanna talk briefly talk about the James web space telescope.
Leo Laporte (01:22:39):
It's probably like minus which we've 300 or something.
Chris Marquardt (01:22:43):
It is, it is. And interestingly enough and that's just one of the things that is so amazing about it. It has these four instruments on board and one is the, this mid, mid infrared instrument, which is cooled down to 6.2 Kelvin and the which, which, which literally means it's super cold. I mean
Leo Laporte (01:23:05):
Almost absolute zero. It's almost as cold as you can get.
Chris Marquardt (01:23:10):
It's almost as cold as you can get. And it's interesting because it is it has, it has, it has a cooler, so it means out in space, it's not cold enough. I think I don't even know it, it doesn't get close to 6.2 Kel where where a
Leo Laporte (01:23:25):
JW, it has to be air, even though it's out
Chris Marquardt (01:23:28):
Space, they have a fridge, they have a fridge on board, pretty much a cryo cooler, which has hydrogen as a coolant cuz otherwise you can't get it that cold. But the interesting thing is it has also heaters on board because the, I just found that out recently and it was really amazed because when that thing, where that thing came from earth we have an atmosphere and that atmosphere has humidity. So it has, and out there, even, even though there is no atmosphere, there's still some molecules and stuff out there. So what J's web apparently did is it, it brought some of that humidity with it. And now the problem is when you have ice on something like mirrors and so on.
Leo Laporte (01:24:13):
Oh, not good
Chris Marquardt (01:24:14):
Then. And, and here on earth, if you, if you put something frozen outside, like let's say you wanna dry your clothes outside in winter that ice will sublimate. It will disappear and it will go away, but under a certain temperature that doesn't happen so that ice would be on those mirrors and instruments forever. So pretty much
Leo Laporte (01:24:36):
That's
Chris Marquardt (01:24:36):
Not good. That's why they needed to be really cautious to cool that down to the exact right coldness without the ice forming and stuff. So that was, I thought that was pretty cool. And in two days there is July 12th. There is an event, a big event. I think you told me you will, you're gonna do a live stream.
Leo Laporte (01:24:59):
Yeah. On our podcast network
Chris Marquardt (01:25:01):
To reveal the first pictures,
Leo Laporte (01:25:02):
Our space guy, rod pile. And I will be getting up seven 30 art time, the morning, 10 30 Pacific, Eastern time for their press conference. Yeah. They have the pictures. They're, they're just, they're they're, they're trying to make it exciting. So
Chris Marquardt (01:25:17):
Oh, they did a real good job hyping that whole thing up, but I'm, I'm really excited about seeing, we have seen some engineering pictures so far from some of the instruments that were just there to, to, to show that it does work and that it like, like an alignment procedure and that kind of stuff that worked. Those were impressive already. So the scientific pictures are supposed to be out of this world. Literally.
Leo Laporte (01:25:43):
I can't wait, is this a better camera than anything you can get at home? I mean, is it, it's a pretty big mirror, isn't it? <Laugh>
Chris Marquardt (01:25:51):
You, I guess you wouldn't use it to take Poul and that kind of stuff. So it is, well, it is the camera that can look the furthest into the past and out there it's also finding exoplanets. That's one of the reasons it is there. And I just, I recently listened to a podcast where they explained how that exoplanet finding thing works. That is interesting in itself because you know, when a planet orbits a sun, then it's not just the planet being attracted by the sun. It's also the planet attracting the sun. So that sun moves a little bit when the planet orbits it. So what they're looking at are, for example suns out there, stars out there that move slightly, and that's what they need really really good instruments for. And one of those motions is if you, if you look at that orbit of a planet, so it's coming towards you and going away from you, that sun moves slightly towards you and away from you, which means it has a slight shift in its spectrum. So you have a, a sun that gets a little red shift and a little blue shift, very tiny minute changes in the spectrum. And James Webb has an instrument on board, a specter on board in the infrared wavelength said, can see these kind of spectral shifts and this, this way show that there are planets somewhere thousands and millions of light years away. I mean, that is just mind boss.
Leo Laporte (01:27:28):
It's super appropriate that our photo guy is gonna talk about these
Chris Marquardt (01:27:32):
I nerd. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:27:33):
These photos from the deepest reaches of space, you said back in time. Yeah. Well, the way you get back in time is by taking as far a picture away as you can because light travels 300,000 kilometers per second hundred 86,000 miles per second. So
Chris Marquardt (01:27:48):
Takes time to get to us.
Leo Laporte (01:27:49):
It, it takes time to get to us. So if you're taking a distant photo, they're gonna go it's, it's such a good camera. They can go far enough back to the, almost the beginning of the universe, 120 million years. Oh.
Chris Marquardt (01:28:00):
And, and to the beginning of the universe, the things it'll see are so far back in time that amazing when the light reaches us, that means that some of those things are not there anymore actually. Yeah. They have already disappeared
Leo Laporte (01:28:12):
Stars of no and yeah.
Chris Marquardt (01:28:14):
The pictures. Yeah. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (01:28:15):
Just to answer my own question about how good a camera this is, and of course it's really not appropriate to compare it to your digital SLR, but it, the, the near cam, the infrared camera is 40 megapixels. So you would think, oh, like thousands of mega pixels, forties decent. It's really not the number of megapixels. It's it's apples and oranges, but the near spec has two sensors, each four megapixels. So that's a total of eight megapixels. Then there's the M I R I imager, that's two megas. There's the N I R I SS for mega picks. So in other words, these aren't like super high resolution cameras, but they're very sensitive. Isn't it? That's the key, the sensitivity. Well,
Chris Marquardt (01:29:00):
They, they're very sensitive and the big size also helps them be a bit more resistant against radiation. That kind, the kind of stuff that happens out there. So it's pretty harsh. I think they, they'd rather use a bit more rugged technology because you can't send someone out there to swap out a sensor that doesn't
Leo Laporte (01:29:17):
Work. Here's a picture. Well, I know we're on the radio, but on the, I will show a picture of the telescope with humans in front of it. This is the big mirror. So it's, it's, you know, three or four times the height of a human, the sense though,
Chris Marquardt (01:29:32):
The, the entire telescope with its with its shields and everything is the size of a tennis court. I mean, this is things it's
Leo Laporte (01:29:37):
Pretty big. Yeah, pretty cool. I think it's an amazing achievement that a decade in the making and on Tuesday will get the first images and you know what? We have a space guy coming up next hour. So you get two for one space. What is our, what is our word of the month? What is our photo assignment this month? Chris?
Chris Marquardt (01:29:56):
Our current assignment is beautiful,
Leo Laporte (01:29:58):
Beautiful, and
Chris Marquardt (01:29:59):
We have two more weeks for it to, to be
Leo Laporte (01:30:02):
Reviewed. So take a picture, not a beautiful picture, a picture that expresses the word or concept beautiful. Upload it to the tech guy group on flicker, tag it TG. Beautiful. In two weeks, crystal will review three of your images and we thank all of you for participating. It's a lot of fun. Thank you, Chris.
Chris Marquardt (01:30:20):
Thanks so much.
Leo Laporte (01:30:34):
All right, Mr. Maco, I thank you for your
Chris Marquardt (01:30:38):
Time back, back to regular photography.
Leo Laporte (01:30:40):
I'm glad you know what, this was a great one to talk about. I love it. I'm very excited.
Chris Marquardt (01:30:44):
It's it's just exciting. And it, it really, it really clicks with me on a, on a, on some other levels than just beautiful pictures. So,
Leo Laporte (01:30:52):
So exciting. Ah, yeah, we have the the C particle accelerator now operating at a highest level ever. We have this
Chris Marquardt (01:31:02):
They're already starting to find new particles,
Leo Laporte (01:31:04):
Amazing results already. We have this telescope wild. Yeah. It's kind of an exciting time.
Chris Marquardt (01:31:11):
Exciting. Ah, science,
Leo Laporte (01:31:12):
Science. Thank you, Chris. Take care.
Chris Marquardt (01:31:15):
All right. See bye next week. Bye bye.
Leo Laporte (01:31:26):
Do next Sunday, no show a week from Sunday that two weeks from today, there will be a show. I will be back. So I will be back on the 24th next Saturday, this Saturday and next mic Sergeant will host and then we'll do a rerun on the 17th. And you'll know that because I'll be recording all these things. Oh, Chris said next week. You're right. Oh, let me tell Chris two weeks, two weeks, Chris. I forgot. Thank you. I should have said something. I should have said something. Leo LaPorte tech I eighty eight eighty eight. Ask Leo the phone number. Let's go to Randy and Huntington beach, California. Hi, Randy. Leo Laport.
Caller 5 (01:32:19):
Hello there, Leo. Hello, Randy have three different computers that I've been using Thunderbird on so I can keep my email local. So when I go out of email range, I can still read things and review things. And I'm having a horrible time trying to sync Gmail among three different computers. And I'm wondering, is there a program I can use that will do that? Cuz Gmail doesn't seem to want to cooperate and Thunderbird doesn't seem to have a way to make it function.
Leo Laporte (01:32:47):
Huh?
Leo Laporte (01:32:49):
So Gmail Google's free email solution is a phony IMAP <laugh> but it's so prevalent is the number one email provider in the world. To my knowledge, certainly in the us that almost all the email clients out there will be, will work with Gmail mostly pretending that it's an IMAP server the biggest difference between Gmail and a traditional IMAP server is Gmail doesn't have folders. It has tags. So a single email can have, it looks like folders when you're on Gmail, but it really is just a tag. And so a single email can be in multiple folders, which I mapped does not support. So I'm looking at a Mozilla support page, Thunderbolt Thunderbird <laugh> it could be Thunderbolt, Thunderbird and Gmail. It says Thunderbird can be configured to work seamlessly with Google's Gmail service messages are synchronized between your local version of Thunderbird and the web based Gmail. So it's supposed to do exactly what you want it to do.
Caller 5 (01:33:58):
And it does that for one computer, but once you get two or three computers it's like there's three separate unrelated functions.
Leo Laporte (01:34:07):
That's not, that's the whole point of that's not supposed to happen. That's the point of IMAP, which unlike the old days where you would download email and delete it with IMAP you leave the mail on the server in this case, Gmail and, and Thunderbird everywhere should look exactly the same, cuz it's getting its information from the server. There must be a difference in the way you've configured it. One of the things IMAP does is allow you to subscribe to some folders and not others. So make sure that you are downloading all subscribed folders on all versions of Thunderbird and that you have subscribed to the folders you really want. That would be the first first thing I'd look at. You also have settings in Gmail for IMAP. And I'm wondering if maybe IMAP has not been turned on in Gmail.
Leo Laporte (01:34:57):
Let me just look at my Gmail settings. There's a whole section on IMAP and pop mail in the Gmail settings. See all settings. They keep, they keep changing everything forwarding and pop IMAP. So yeah, make sure IMAP is enabled. That's under the forwarding and pop IMAP setting when, oh, and this might have something to do with it. When I mark a message in IMAP is deleted. You can either auto expunge, which means it'll update the server immediately. Well, or it'll do it later. The client will do it later. That could be the source of difference. What differences do you see?
Caller 5 (01:35:38):
I have to go through and delete the same email message on the
Leo Laporte (01:35:44):
Computer. Yes. That's an expunging thing. <Laugh> so deleting an IMAP is not really
Caller 5 (01:35:50):
Have the same folders. I, I turn it on and I create, you know, I, I just bought a new Lenovo laptop and I'm trying to recreate everything. Huh. And it's just been crazy. Because I, you know, I reached the limit with the Gmail saying, Hey, you have, you know, too much mail and too much everything. And so I'm trying to get back down to their 15 gigabyte limit. And one computer has an email that I'll delete and it'll still be on the other two computers.
Leo Laporte (01:36:23):
Yeah. So there is this thing about deleting an I IAP IMAP deleting is not deleting. It's not the same as if you are deleting a local message. It's and that's why they use the word expung <laugh>, which is a terrible word. It, it, when you delete a message in an IMAP client, you're actually not deleting it. You're sending a signal to the server to delete it. And then the server and it's leisure decides whether to delete it or not. I would, there is that setting in Gmail for whether to expunge immediately or to, or to wait for the server to get around to it. It may be you should switch, swap that setting to make sure there is scooter X in the chat room gave me a Gmail help section. Why is my account not syncing across my other devices? And it is, there is no help <laugh> in this help.
Leo Laporte (01:37:14):
Yeah. It comes from 2020 for one thing. So it's pretty old. Maybe a couple of suggestions. You've gotta make sure IMAP is turned on. Maybe turn off pop just in case, unless you're using pop on some other client. I would say you know, check the expung settings. It should be exactly the same be the other thing to understand, and, and this might be related is when you're using an IMAP client, by the way, everybody listening, you're probably using IMAP. IMAP is, is, has replaced all other protocols pretty much everywhere. So you're probably, if you're using a, a standalone male client to access a service like Yahoo mail, outlook, mail, Gmail, fast mail, some other mail service you're probably using IMAP IMAP though is a little different from how we usually think of mail. For instance, you don't actually download and store the mail in IMAP unless you explicitly tell it to do so. You cash it. It's it again, the IMAP client what are you using instead of curiosity, outlook mail
Caller 5 (01:38:21):
Thunderbird.
Leo Laporte (01:38:22):
Oh, you said Thunderbird, what am I saying? You said Thunderbird. So Thunderbird, what, the way Thunderbird works different. Now Thunderbird is both pop at IMAP, but the way Thunderbird works differently with IMAP is it, it does kind of download the messages, but it doesn't guarantee that they'll be on the hard drive. They're cash of the most recent messages. You can go into Thunderbird settings and say, how much of the mail you wanna keep? If you wanna download it all and keep it all. I'm pretty sure Thunderbird will let you do that. Maybe that's the thing to do, but remember that's gonna take up as much drive space on your drive as it does currently on Gmail's drives. Yeah. Sometimes people want that though. They, in fact, it's probably a good idea cuz you know, things can go wrong with a Google account and they can suddenly turn you off and you, that would be bad.
Leo Laporte (01:39:02):
So if you have a copy of everything, that's nice. In theory, what you're trying to do is exactly what IMAP was designed to do. IMAP became ascendant because everybody had multiple computers. So, so, you know, nobody wanted to be in that situation where you'd have different, you know, mail on different computers. So what IMAP does is a view to the server. The server is the official authority. What computer geek's called the canonical source of your email and then every other client, every place you have Thunderbird or any other client doesn't matter, you don't have to use the same one. You should see the same thing. The only difference is occasionally expunging. I'm not sure about folders. Again, Google does a weird thing with folders and it may be that Thunderbolt Thunderbird is trying to treat it as a real IMAP client. And it's not cuz Google doesn't have folders. It only has tags.
Caller 5 (01:39:59):
And I'm trying to sort things that I found with Gmail. It's, it's hard to, you know, do sorts that make a whole lot of sense easily.
Leo Laporte (01:40:06):
Yeah, no I'm I actually abandon Gmail for a variety of reasons, partly cuz it wasn't real IMAP. And I use a, I, I use fast mail now, which is a real IMAP and I, I like it better. I can control this sorting and all that stuff. You might try just another email client because it's IMAP. It doesn't matter what you use. So Thunderbird on one should look exactly the same as outlook on another. It should be exactly the same. So am I try another client to see if you get better results
Caller 5 (01:40:35):
Is outlook fairly reliable nowadays
Leo Laporte (01:40:41):
You're asking the wrong person need to know <laugh> I'm not a fan. But yeah, the, the UN reliability comes with the fact that outlook stores, everything in one giant hairball file the PST file Thunderbird does it, right? It has separate text files for every mail message, which is great. Cuz if Thunderbird fails or something goes wrong, you still have all those messages and they're readable in other applications and, and so forth is a standard format. But there are other email, good email clients that you can try on windows and Mac that support IMAP that, you know, use a standard inbox format or something like it. It might be worth trying just to see, you know, do a whole fresh start and see you should have exactly the same thing on the Gmail web and on your client, Leo Laport, the tech guy. And yeah, that's the other question. Which outlook cuz outlook is Microsoft calls everything outlook. Yeah. It's all outlook.
Caller 5 (01:41:33):
Now I gave up an outlook long ago. I'm in the process now of just creating the, the folders on my new laptop that I had on my desktop.
Leo Laporte (01:41:42):
Yeah.
Caller 5 (01:41:43):
And what I have created, I just noticed that they're different. It's just pretty bizarre.
Leo Laporte (01:41:48):
You should. Okay. So the way it works. Oh that's okay. So that is that's what's going on now. I understand. <Laugh> don't don't so don't create folders on your desktop ever. <Laugh> especially with Gmail Thunderbird. That is a mismatch.
Caller 5 (01:42:09):
I'm sorry, my desktop computer.
Leo Laporte (01:42:10):
I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. But don't don't yeah, I understand what you're saying. You're using Thunderbird to have to recreate your folder structure. Let right. It download that from Gmail. Do not do it manually.
Caller 5 (01:42:25):
It doesn't seem to be doing that. I've had it for about a
Leo Laporte (01:42:27):
Month and it's not downloading the folder structure.
Caller 5 (01:42:30):
No. Huh.
Leo Laporte (01:42:32):
Well I
Caller 5 (01:42:33):
Agree. I
Leo Laporte (01:42:33):
I, huh. I do remember that. That's why I was actually surprised. And I read this to you from, from the Thunderbird folks that they say, oh no, it works perfectly. Cuz I do remember it. Didn't used to work perfectly with Gmail. Yeah. But because Gmail is so dominant it is certainly if they, I mean, remember they gave up on Thunderbird for a while was abandoned.
Caller 5 (01:42:54):
Right, exactly.
Leo Laporte (01:42:56):
So you know, if you're gonna come back and start developing again, Mozilla, you gotta make sure it works with Gmail or no, one's gonna use it.
Caller 5 (01:43:07):
You think Lenovo does anything proprietary? No. Okay.
Leo Laporte (01:43:11):
It's not the Lenovo. I would. So you're on windows.
Caller 5 (01:43:15):
Yeah. Windows 11 on the, the new one 10 on the old one,
Leo Laporte (01:43:20):
I would try. There are lots of good email programs. I would a good email program with Gmail should automatically download the folder structure. So it's exactly the same. It should automatically keep it identical when you expunge it should expunge on the server and they should look the same sent mail should be the same in all folders. All of that stuff should be identical. It may be the Thunderbird. It may be a Thunderbird issue. I know, you know, they
Caller 5 (01:43:48):
Look at would be that go to Gmail and make sure expunge setting is set there. Right?
Leo Laporte (01:43:53):
Yes. Well there's two settings. One is immediate and one is whenever I get around to it, turn it to change it to immediate.
Caller 5 (01:44:00):
Okay.
Leo Laporte (01:44:02):
Thunderbird should be downloading. So this now, if it's not downloading the, and I'm gonna put folders and quotes, cuz they're not folders. As I mentioned, they're tags, but Thunderbird should be downloading those tags and creating folders. Make sure that that's, that might go to the subscribed setting. So there'll be a setting in Thunderbird that says only download subscribed folders or download all folders. Make sure you download all folders. All right. Make sure Thunderbird's set up for IMAP. Make sure Gmail's turned on for IMAP. Ah, you know, there's a, I, I wonder if there's still a problem with Thunderbird and Gmail, to be honest. Thunderbird's good. I'm glad that they brought it back.
Caller 5 (01:44:44):
Yeah. I, I I've been trying to get away from all the Microsoft Gmail.
Leo Laporte (01:44:48):
Yeah. Rightly so. Yeah.
Caller 5 (01:44:50):
And you know, I'm, I'm at the point where I'm, I'm thinking perhaps you should consider doing rans regularly against technology.
Leo Laporte (01:44:59):
God knows it'd be easy. You know, it's funny because it's, it's always tempting, right? Randy, it's, there's plenty to be ranting about, but lately I've been thinking maybe I'm going too negative. I should be. Cuz in the people used to listen to the show cuz it was exciting. Technology was, you know, changing our world and making it good and exciting and different. And there was always something fun and exciting to talk about. And I don't I'm thinking, is there any way for me to, to be more positive about this stuff?
Caller 5 (01:45:31):
Well, it is exciting.
Leo Laporte (01:45:32):
It is exciting. It is good. <Laugh> so I don't wanna dwell on the really bad stuff, but there's so much of it.
Caller 5 (01:45:42):
I will try doing 32nd. Ran follow
Leo Laporte (01:45:45):
You up. Just call me in Rand. Just call me in Rand. That would be great. Randy rant and Randy for a Sunday afternoon. What's what's the problem today, Randy?
Caller 5 (01:45:54):
Exactly. Randy's rant. Don't
Leo Laporte (01:45:56):
Get me started.
Caller 5 (01:45:57):
I'm gonna get my guitar on.
Leo Laporte (01:45:59):
Oh is she gonna play while you ran?
Caller 5 (01:46:02):
<Laugh> I'm helping her unload. She just came in from the car.
Leo Laporte (01:46:07):
All right. Well you go help unload. It's a pleasure talking to you, Randy. I hope some of that helps.
Caller 5 (01:46:11):
Well, I'm gonna give it a try. I appreciate your help. My
Leo Laporte (01:46:14):
Pleasure. The show. Thank you. Take care.
Caller 5 (01:46:16):
Bye-Bye
Leo Laporte (01:46:18):
Well, Hey, Hey. Hey. How are you today? Leo Lepo, the tech guy, time to talk computers, the internet home theater, digital photography, smart phones, smart watches. Eighty eight eighty eight ask Leo's the phone number? The lines are open 8 8 8 8 2 7 5 5 3 6. I have a few lines open. Actually, if you wanna call Nile would be a very good time. Website is tech ilab.com put links there. Anything I talk about on the show? You can go there and get it. It's free. There's no sign up. We also put a transcript of the show after a couple of days, it takes us a while to get it, but day or so later, we'll have a transcript of the show, including times where, you know, I mentioned something so you can jump right to that part of the audio or video. Yes. That's there as well. Just look for episode 19 ten@techguylabs.com. Jerry's on the line from bucks county adjacent. <Laugh>
Caller 6 (01:47:13):
That is correct. Leo. I I'm from bucks county adjacent. I'm sort love some glory. <Laugh> I'm actually in Montgomery county, which but in bucks, county Doylestown is the county. He, the home of pink, the singer. Oh Tim, Tim stacked. The actor of son, the beach going back to 2000.
Leo Laporte (01:47:34):
Oh wow.
Caller 6 (01:47:35):
Author James missioner Pearl S Buck's an interview.
Leo Laporte (01:47:41):
<Laugh> look at that. So even though you're in Montgomery county, you kind of, you see, you see bucks county as your county kind of?
Caller 6 (01:47:51):
No, I don't about half a mile from, from my house to the county.
Leo Laporte (01:47:57):
That's about it. Okay. Our family seat is an eerie little distant from you
Caller 6 (01:48:03):
E EPA.
Leo Laporte (01:48:04):
Yeah.
Caller 6 (01:48:05):
Okay.
Leo Laporte (01:48:06):
My mom always tells me, she says we have a graveside. An EIE just remember that. Thank you.
Caller 6 (01:48:16):
Mom's
Leo Laporte (01:48:16):
The other side, but I could, you know, I'll wave at you as I go by. So what can I, what can I do for you, Jerry?
Caller 6 (01:48:23):
Well, you can make me happy, but it's not gonna happen, but <laugh>,
Leo Laporte (01:48:27):
I'm afraid. I'm afraid that's a little too expensive. So <laugh>, I don't guarantee happiness. I do guarantee satisfaction.
Caller 6 (01:48:37):
Okay. Well Leo, a while ago I called and I was using an app. I got off of the the store, you know, the app store. Yeah. And I was able to get different radio stations, streaming service. Oh
Leo Laporte (01:48:51):
Yeah. I remember that. Yep.
Caller 6 (01:48:53):
And I could program 'em in and they would come on and this and that. Now something happened the evil heart of money. I guess when Congress has come in, I heart an Odyssey. Now I had to download both of their apps. But some of 'em you can't even turn 'em off. Once you get 'em on, what is the purpose of this Leo, other than that pissed me the hell off <laugh>.
Leo Laporte (01:49:14):
So are you listening just on your phone or do you have one of those internet connected radios?
Caller 6 (01:49:20):
No. On the phone and sometimes on and on the computer too. Okay. Mostly on the phone.
Leo Laporte (01:49:24):
So you, so this is, and by the way full disclaimer, this show is owned by iHeart. And so we're on iHeart, on the app in many of the stations, I don't know about the station you're listening to, but many of the stations are iHeart stations. But I am completely objective. Okay. So I will tell you the objective to everybody. You know, when the internet came along, the first reaction of radio stations was what, who cares, right? There're no threat to us, but it wasn't very long before they realized, oh yeah, you know what? Digital technology could be a threat to us, especially if people can get in their cars. So they said, well, we better, we better be there. We better be on the internet. So every radio station, every Tom, Dick and Harry started an internet stream. And usually you'd go to their website and there'd be a little real player or something like that on there.
Leo Laporte (01:50:18):
And you press a button and you'd hear it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But then they realize there's a problem. The fin, the, the, the financial model, the business model for streaming is the exact opposite of the business model for radio. Let me explain radio. You get a license from the FTC FCC, pardon me? You build a tower, a transmitter. You hire some guy like me to talking to a microphone. You play some discs. That's the cost. One person listens a hundred people, listen, a million people listen, doesn't cost you anymore. Right? Same price. So obviously you do everything you can to get as many people listen, as you can, cuz the more who listen, the more money you make streaming, oops, it's the opposite. It's more like a magazine model where every single person who listens costs you money and the more people who listen, the more money you spend.
Leo Laporte (01:51:06):
So radio stations suddenly got bills. They said, you know, the, the geek at the station would say, Hey, good news boss. We got a million listeners all over the world. And then the boss would get the bill. And he say, well, wait a minute. <Laugh> this cost me $10,000 a month. Oh, well thank goodness. Our advertisers must be happy. Well, no, they're not because Jake's Dodge city in beautiful downtown bucks, county adjacent PA doesn't care. If somebody in Hamburg Germany's listening, they're not gonna sell him a car. Right. So the advertisers were in local radio are mostly local said, well, we're not gonna pay to be on that stream. I don't want somebody to call me, you know, asking about my carpet, steaming service from Hamburg, Germany. So suddenly you get a double whammy. The radio stations go, not only is this costing us money <laugh> but we're actually, advertisers are actually complaining.
Leo Laporte (01:52:03):
And so we have to take them off. In fact, that's why when you hear a stream and this is true for TV too, now you see different ads, don't you? Because it's a different market. It's no longer just that city. It's it's now a global market. In fact, there are some companies that will block you. They'll do geographic blocking and say, well, you can't watch our stream because we can't make any money off of you. So all of this got to be very chaotic. And then in the meantime, listeners loved it, right? We love it. I can listen. You know, if I'm, if I'm home in California and I wanna listen to mom's radio station and E EPA, I can, if I wanna see how the pirates are doing, listening to the Pittsburgh station, I KDKA I can. So you listeners thought this was the greatest thing since slice bread.
Leo Laporte (01:52:55):
And as a result, there were radio directories on the internet. There are actually companies made radios. People like our friends Bob crane, and C crane made internet radios that you could listen, just like the regular radio, your car. Now, most cars, all, all new models anyway, can get streaming and not just satellite streaming. They can actually get internet streaming in many cases. If you get in a Tesla, you can listen to tune in. So then the radio companies, the, and they're only a handful of them now, but the radio companies said, well, what, you know, ho, hold on. <Laugh> we gotta make this work. So iHeart, CBS they've changed their names, but changed their name to something else. I can't remember who the name of CBS radio is now. Is it AMI? I can't remember. Cumulus. There's a couple of a handful of big companies, own radio stations.
Leo Laporte (01:53:53):
This country all created their own app because at least if they're streaming on their own app, they can get a little smart about advertising. They can sell advertising on the app. They can do. If it's, if it's an app on a phone, they know where you are geographically. They can literally sell ads to somebody in Hamburg, Germany who's listening so they can, they can get smarter about it. Instead of you just listening on your browser. Now you have to listen to an app. And the company apps pretty much will say to us, you know, there are still a few apps like you know, there was radio.com for a long time, like tune in internet radio, there's still non affiliated apps, but most of the companies have said that those non affiliated apps, no, no, no, no, no. You can't carry our stream. We want our listeners to listen on our app, cuz then we can monetize 'em we can track 'em we know who's listening and it, and, and, and we can make a business model out of this.
Leo Laporte (01:54:43):
We could never make a business model out of just the open internet Odyssey. Is that the name of it? Odyssey owns CBS radio. Okay. Well it's very confusing. I'm in the business and I don't understand it anyway. <Laugh> so, and, but you do understand that, right? It makes sense that they each have their own app. Now. So those radio directories that existed you know, radio locator.com and stuff. They, they went from hundreds of thousands stations to fewer and most of them not in the us, this is not what happened in the rest of the world, by the way. But the us radio scene is a, is very, is unique. It's very particular. So that's why now you have to have the right app. And if you wanna listen to the tech guy, you have to have iHeart the iHeart app. Now this isn't gonna last long because there's something called podcasts.
Leo Laporte (01:55:38):
<Laugh> that completely break this model. <Laugh> you don't have to have a tower transmitter, a guy you behind, well, you do have to microphone on a guy, but then other than that, you don't have, and you can do it on the computer and you can distribute on the internet and you can sell ads against it. So podcasting has changed everything and that's that is kind of an existential threat to lake local radio stations. The only the big advantage local radio stations have is they're live and they're local. I'm live right now, sitting in a studio, talking to you. And so unlike a podcast, I can be timely, can be up to date. Something happens. I could talk about it, but you know, it's, it's getting hard for radio, especially when the people who have your, you know, iHeart app or your Odyssey app on their phone also have a podcast client on their phone and thousands of millions. Did I say thousands, millions of podcasts to choose from? It's a much more complicated space.
Leo Laporte (01:56:38):
So in <affirmative>. So in answer to your question, I think you're outta luck. <Laugh>, you're gonna have to use the app that they want you to use. In most cases I think radio stations are kind of trying to have it both ways. Many shows are available on podcast. Now those won't be live. Those will be on demand. You'll be listening after the fact, not so great for morning radio. If you want to hear the traffic updates, things like that. But some shows like this show, you can listen to as a podcast, many of the local stations make podcasts out of it. We do as well on my podcast network@twit.tv. In fact, if you go to tech guy labs.com, that's where you're going, you're going to the podcasts. So you can listen to past shows and it's a different set of advertisers.
Leo Laporte (01:57:20):
It's a, it's different, probably the solution to difficult to use radio apps, if you, and that's what your problem is, Jerry, I know you don't like these apps is try a podcast. Apple has a podcast app. Google has an Android podcast app. There's also pocket casts, which is a very popular app, overcast popular on the iPhone, forget a podcast app. And I, you know, it's a little self defeating on my part, but you can always listen to shows as podcasts. You might find those easier, frankly, than trying to figure out where the radio station is.
Leo Laporte (01:58:00):
Laura, do you think I still have a job tomorrow? Maybe <laugh> Laura's open. Cuz if I don't have a job, I don't know where you're going. Laura, 88, 88, ask Leo, Hey, it's just the way it is folks. It's it's that's the capitalist world, you know, and that's where innovation happens. It's exciting. And truthfully companies like iHeart are excited about it, cuz it's opportunity for them. Right? Leo Laport, D tech guy, Leo Laport, the tech I 88, 88 ask Leo <laugh>. We live in interesting times, right? Isn't that the old Chinese curse. And one of the things you do see, thanks to technology is disruption in every business. So the what's going on in the radio business is happening across the board in all kinds of businesses, as the internet introduces a whole new way of doing business, a brand new customer base, a global customer base used to be, if you were a Potter selling, you know, plates on main street, you were competing against whoever else was nearby and maybe the local department store.
Leo Laporte (01:59:10):
Now you're competing against every other Potter in the world. That's really disruptive. It really changes things and all the business models have changed. And so companies rise and fall. I was just looking at the history of CBS radio on on Wikipedia. The entry says CBS radio was a radio broadcasting company company company owned by CBS corporation founded in 1928, went through a few changes, became Westinghouse broadcasting, then infinity broadcasting. Then they ch they got acquired by a company called Intercom, which has now changed its name for reasons I don't know to odd sea. So I, you see how not up to date. I am odd to see is the name of it. They're no longer one of the biggest radio companies in the world or in the country.
Leo Laporte (02:00:10):
What would the real interesting thing to me and, and probably to you as, as a consumer of content is how much content there is in so many different places. You know, I'm old enough to remember when there were, you know, three networks, ABC, CBS, and NBC on the TV and three ch that meant three channels. <Laugh> that was it, right? <Laugh> of course you had to get outta your seat to change it. So that's a good thing. There were every town, every big city had maybe 50 different radio stations, all of, all of which competing to, you know, for your attention and, and your ad dollars. Some towns had as many as two or three newspapers, they had a morning newspaper and a evening newspaper. Most towns don't even have a local paper anymore at all.
Leo Laporte (02:01:01):
It lots of changes. And, and you can look directly at the internet for that. But from the point of view of, of us as users, whether there's more news than ever before, you don't need a daily paper, you can get a minute, every minute, you can get a news update, right? We don't ever have to say, well, you know what happened yesterday? We know if you want looking for something to watch on TV, you don't have three channels. You have. I remember <laugh> when the chairman of Comcast said someday there'll be 500 channels. And I thought, what? You're crazy <laugh> was it Roberts? I said, no, you're, you're crazy. There won't be 500 channel. Oh, 500. There's a million really. I mean, there's 500 channels on your cable system, perhaps actually probably more than just a hundred or 200.
Leo Laporte (02:01:52):
And, and of the channels you wanna watch fewer than that, but there's lots of channels, but that's just your cable system. Then there're your internet plug in a Roku or an apple TV or fire stick. And suddenly there's thousands. And that's, and that's just on your TV then there's, you know, you go to the internet, there's podcasts, there're more than a million active podcasts, a hundred thousand podcast launch every week, according to Edison research, most of those never get past episode one, but Hey, they're launching. So in some ways it's an embarrassment of riches. It's hard for us, isn't it. We have so much stuff to listen to. It's also hard and I'll speak as a podcaster, not as a radio broadcaster, radio broadcasting, you know, relatively easy all, if you can talk somebody to letting you on their air, but, and that's the hard part.
Leo Laporte (02:02:43):
If you can get, I don't know how I did it, but somehow I talk somebody to let me use, can I use your radio station? I'd like to talk geek stuff. Somehow I talk them into doing it. But once you do that, there's not as much competition. Right? How many radio stations can you hear? On the other hand, as a podcaster, launching a podcast, you're going up against a million existing podcasts, a hundred, 2000 new ones each week. And how do you get anybody to pay attention to you? I'm glad we started. I started podcasting back in 2004, cuz if I were, if I were starting today, I I'd probably have to have a, a night job or a day job. I'd have to have another job that's for sure. So it's a fascinating world. It is disruptive. It is disrupting. Imagine, you know, if, if you're Brian Roberts and you think you got your handle on the world and it's changing underneath your feet.
Leo Laporte (02:03:35):
Imagine the folks who founded Netflix read Hastings and company and Ted and suddenly, you know, the company that was flying high during the pandemic is suddenly crashing and they have to fire people. And it's a, it's a Rocky ocean we sail in. And yet I think for consumers, for you and me, for the people listening and watching, it's a good thing. I do. Leo LaPorte tech it's time for rod pile. I said it's time for rod pile spaceman, extraordinary editor in chief of ad Astra magazine, space.nss.org. He's also the author of many fine books about space, including first on the moon, the story of the Apollo 11 astronauts on their 50th anniversary. Hello, rod pile. Hey, I think my publisher owes you a couple thousand dollars. Hey, we're getting close to, is it the 52nd? 53Rd? 53rd anniversary?
Rod Pyle (02:04:38):
Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:04:39):
July 16th, 20th or 20th? Yeah,
Rod Pyle (02:04:42):
The 16th was the launch. 20Th was landing. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:04:44):
Wow.
Rod Pyle (02:04:45):
And you're gonna be at sea. My friend.
Leo Laporte (02:04:48):
Well, I'll be at sea. I will be. I you asked me before the in the break I'm leaving, flying. We're flying to Seattle Thursday night, Thursday. We're gonna spend a day in Seattle looking at Paul Allen's Mo pop his museum of popular art and culture. Yeah. And then gonna go over and wave at the Amazon spheres. See if I can get I'll knock and see if Andy jazzy let, let me in. And then we' we're gonna take take that boat to Alaska. The COVID crews. We're gonna call it on Saturday.
Rod Pyle (02:05:21):
Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Leo Laporte (02:05:23):
We thought by now it'd be all over. So we planned a year ago. It's more than a year ago to do this cruise with the Twitch family. So we've got about a hundred people podcast listeners who are coming along with us. Won't get to know any of 'em cuz they'll all be wearing masks as masks is, but have a unique hairstyle. That'll help. I can't wait. It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm it'll be it's everybody's gonna be vaccinated masks or required and so forth. So I think it'll be fine. So rod, this is a very exciting week in space, time travel.
Rod Pyle (02:05:57):
Yeah, we got a lot of stuff going on. And this week on Friday, our latest installment of this week in space will be about alien mega
Leo Laporte (02:06:05):
Structures. Oh, there are no alien mega structure
Rod Pyle (02:06:08):
With Isaac Arthur who is a, a YouTube star. Yeah. Of 700,000 listeners. Wow. Who actually, I he's, he's a, a really good science communicator and he just gives the, the, the idea behind them, you know? So we talk about Dyson's spheres and oh yeah. You know, ring worlds and that kind of stuff. Yeah. So you treat these kind of fantasy thing. Yeah. We're not, we're not doing a coast to coast here.
Leo Laporte (02:06:31):
I just finished tune that way. A fine science fiction series called the Baba verse. And it, it has a Tose in it, which is a mega structure, a tube shape, space habitat. That's so big. It actually curves around the the system's sun all the way around. Yeah.
Rod Pyle (02:06:51):
Amazing. Well, and if you remember the Dyson sphere in I forget which episode of star Trek next generation that was, but they featured a Dyson's sphere. It was, you know, to see it was kind of interesting. And then of course we had it shoved down our throat in moon fall much to my determine
Leo Laporte (02:07:05):
This may I love these ideas and I wish there were such things, horror movie, but none of them, none of them exist as far as I,
Rod Pyle (02:07:13):
Well, not yet. No, but give it time. So before I forget tonight at 6 39, we're going to have a Falcon nine launch out of Vanderberg. So that's probably too far to you for you to spot it. But if you're on the central coast or in Ventura, Santa Barbara county in Southern California, you should be able to see that rocket take off and return. It's gonna go back to a barge landing. It's just a routine Starlink launch. I just thought I'd mention it because we Californians might have a chance to see the little guy.
Leo Laporte (02:07:43):
It's always fun to see that and it won't be dark yet. So it won't be cool as at night launch, right? Yeah.
Rod Pyle (02:07:49):
But you'll, but you'll see little flare and there may still, but as the sun goes down, you may still see a little bit of a scattered contract. That'd be cool. See we got some interesting stuff back from ocirus the ocirus Rex mission, this data that came down a while ago, but it takes, takes some time to evaluate these things, but they spotted what they think is evidence of a landslide. And this, you know, Ben who's only 1800 foot wide feet wide, so it's a small asteroid, but there's just enough collective gravity there with with the mass that it's got, that they, there was an impact, something smacked into it and made a, a small crater, a couple feet wide. And they were watching the pattern, the dispersal pattern of the dust and the pebbles that went up when it was hit. And it, it, the trajectory that it took indicated that this was not a hard surface impact. So as they had suspected BEU has a mass, a collective mass or density rather only slightly more than water. And so we think it's a, just a rubble pile
Leo Laporte (02:08:56):
NASA called it a giant ball pit
Rod Pyle (02:08:59):
<Laugh>. Yeah, exactly.
Leo Laporte (02:09:02):
So you just, when, when
Rod Pyle (02:09:03):
The whacking into this kind of collective,
Leo Laporte (02:09:06):
When the
Rod Pyle (02:09:07):
Cyruy, you
Leo Laporte (02:09:08):
Know, when the ocirus started to land on it, they said the spacecraft would've sunk into Beno, had it not fired its thrust to, to back away immediately after it grabbed Dustin rock from the asteroids surface, it was gonna sink. Yeah. That's wild.
Rod Pyle (02:09:23):
And so this is just further validation to that, which is cool because they had postulated these kind of rubble pile asteroids for a long time, but it was good to finally finally get some real data on that. And of course, Tuesday, we have our web first light at about seven 30, our time local here in the west coast. And they announced their first targets, which were cool, although they were a little more constrained than I thought. So the Corrina Nebula, which is a big, bright Nebula, about 7,600 light years away wasp 96 B, which is an exoplanet, very large exoplanet. And they're doing spectrum studies of that.
Leo Laporte (02:10:01):
That's the thing that you said last week, the most interesting about these web James web telescope images looking for planets that might support life.
Rod Pyle (02:10:11):
Yeah. And this is a gas giant, so it's, it's,
Leo Laporte (02:10:14):
It's nobody full.
Rod Pyle (02:10:14):
I mean, it could
Leo Laporte (02:10:15):
Good. Hey, nobody got time for gas giant. No we're gonna live on well.
Rod Pyle (02:10:18):
And part of the problem is, you know, most of what we can spot easily out there is so close to its parent star that if there is life Jim, it would be really heat tolerant. Cuz there was another story that came out about a small here, it was a Neptune size exoplanet LT T 97, 7 9 B. It sounds like the one they landed on aliens 260 lit years away classified as a hot net, not hot Neptune circles as parents star every 24 hours. Ooh. So a year 20 hours per day. Wow. They said the orbit's so close. The atmosphere is so charged to solar. The radiation that it would be about 3000 degrees Fahrenheit and melt led chromium and stainless steel because you gotta include the stainless steel.
Leo Laporte (02:11:02):
Ah let's
Rod Pyle (02:11:03):
I can't figure out is yeah. What that kind of star shine, hitting it. The atmosphere should be gone and according to tests and probably what we'll see from, from web. It's not so they're, they're gonna be looking at that. But, but not right away. Interestingly out of these first targets, one I thought was kind of the coolest was a cluster star called Stevens Quinte in the constellation Pegasus it's notable for being the first compact galaxy group discovered in 1877. Sorry, not stars, galaxies four, the five galaxies in the QUT,
Leo Laporte (02:11:34):
1877. That's a long time now. Yeah. Wow.
Rod Pyle (02:11:36):
But the thing, my favorite thing about it is it's the little cluster of, of objects that was featured in the movie. It's a wonderful life. When, when it was the Chauncey chunk,
Leo Laporte (02:11:45):
Are those the angels getting their wings?
Rod Pyle (02:11:47):
Yeah. When they're talking and they're kinda, well, no, you're gonna have to go down, but do I get my wings now? So it's that group of people.
Leo Laporte (02:11:54):
That's where the angels live. Yeah. So we're gonna do a live stream along with NASA seven 30 Pacific, 10 30 Eastern on Tuesday. You and I will we see beautiful pictures? I mean, first of all, they have the pictures already don't they?
Rod Pyle (02:12:12):
At least some of 'em. Yeah. And they're processing,
Leo Laporte (02:12:14):
They take a while download.
Rod Pyle (02:12:16):
Yeah. And they're gonna be smart about this, you know, they are gonna make sure these things are visually spectacular, cuz it's a lot of money and you want that money to keep coming. So you keep the taxpayers happy.
Leo Laporte (02:12:25):
So there'll be some cool to, and there'll be, would you think there'll be any science, like real valuable science
Rod Pyle (02:12:33):
What they can do in that period of time? I mean, you gotta figure, they've got large teams working on this stuff immediately as it comes down, how much they'll give us right away out it's early because it does take a long time. Yeah. And it can take, I mean, as we're seeing some of the stuff, some of the stories I'm giving you, I think the thing from from a Cyrus Rex was like, I don't know, many months or a year ago. So it takes time for team through this. This is
Leo Laporte (02:12:57):
Like the ribbon kind of ceremony where's or the groundbreaking, the telescopes there it's taken pictures. We're gonna get our first images on Tuesday. And I think over the next few years we're gonna get some very interesting science from all of this. I hope so. Rod pile space, 2.0 editor in chief at Astra. We are one day, 17 hours, 47 minutes and 53 seconds. <Laugh> thank you.
Rod Pyle (02:13:22):
Thank you.
Leo Laporte (02:13:29):
I wanna thank you for letting me be your tech guy. Once again, on the radio. Thanks to professor Laura musical director spins those discs for us to Kim Schaffer, our phone angel who is ready to go out in the 90 degree weather and enjoy yourself. And of course, most of all, thanks to you for listening and calling and making this possible. Couldn't do it without you time for I think a couple more calls before we wrap it up for the day Micah in Maine airplane, pilot geek, I can always get it wrong. What is it?
Caller 7 (02:14:08):
Airplane
Leo Laporte (02:14:09):
Geeks.Com. Airplane geeks.com. Hello Micah. <Laugh>
Caller 7 (02:14:12):
Hi, you look Leo. I know I just spoke with you yesterday, but you had a caller calling about Thunderbird and Gmail and I think I have the solution. Oh,
Leo Laporte (02:14:19):
Good problem. Yes.
Caller 7 (02:14:20):
I love Thunderbird. I use it for everything by use it for my hover account. I use it for my Gmail account, got a couple of Hotmail and Yahoo accounts with it. The problem with the Gmail and I, the only reason I use Gmail is because it's ubiquitous and it's easy and I can depend on it, but I hate their file settings. They have EST strange file system. They don't set up sub directories. They have tags and that's the issue with Thunderbird. Everything transfers down and you can use it with Thunderbird. And I have a Gmail account on my iPhone and I have it on a couple of different computers, but all your sub directories because their system, their strange file system comes under a mini on Thunderbird. They have that sub directory that you see when you're on the website or on the web mail called Gmail on Thunderbird. It's a gray out italic, Gmail, and any sub director you put in there goes under that. And so I have a one for Ion's travel on my Gmail under that sub directory, but you gotta find that great out sub directory called Gmail cause they use tags, right? They have a strange VI system.
Leo Laporte (02:15:27):
Yeah. Gmail is, is fake IAP and, and that's the biggest difference. Yeah.
Caller 7 (02:15:32):
And that's the problem. All the other IAP systems, you know, like Hotmail or Yahoo or, you know, whatever, they're, they're fine. They work just great because it is real. I a but Gmail played with it, but it's there and it syncs, you just gotta find that Gmail gray out on Thunderbird, gray out in metallic sub directory and usually everything else comes in under that.
Leo Laporte (02:15:53):
Good. Yeah. Well I hope our our caller is still listening. Great tip that's you know, it's silly because Thunderbird knows Gmail is weird and should be able to handle it in some sort of responsible way. The problem is that on IMAP, there is that the route directory is called inbox. Typically in the case of Gmail is called Gmail. That's. Everything is under the route directory, but there is a, an inbox that you can look at that is above it. And I guess in Gmail, there's nothing there. Everything has a tag or something. It's just, thank you, Google for making a mess of this. I bet your hover works perfectly well. Right? Cause it's IMAP real IMAP
Caller 7 (02:16:34):
Actually hover is a bit difficult in terms of its its file system as well on
Speaker 12 (02:16:39):
The oh no web
Caller 7 (02:16:40):
Mail on the, no on the webmail with hover. It's a little fouled up, but with Thunderbird. Absolutely perfect. Yeah.
Leo Laporte (02:16:46):
Cause it's real IMAP. Yeah. I use fast mail. It's real IMAP and and Thunderbird would handle it just exactly. Right. It's a little bit though on the developers of Thunderbird because Gmail is easily the number one email program in the world, so they need to support it. Thank you for the tip, Mike. I appreciate it. It's good to at least have a direction to go for our calling. I appreciate it.
Caller 7 (02:17:09):
Have a good
Leo Laporte (02:17:10):
One. You too mark in Los Angeles. Leo Laport. The tech. Hi. Hi mark.
Speaker 12 (02:17:15):
Hey Leo. Thanks for taking my call. I've got a question. What I wanna do is I wanna do a video call with my aunt and I wanna interview her and get information about the family history. And I want to record it over a video call that way I'll have a recording of it. And just something that lasts a little bit longer than, you know, just the casual conversations I've had with her. So what's the current best option for doing a video call that I can record and that also I can just send her a link that she clicks on and it just works if that's even, I think that's available, but what do you know,
Leo Laporte (02:17:55):
Zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, everybody knows zoom nowadays. And and so one of the reasons I, I mean, there are a lot of programs. That'll do this. Almost everybody will do this, but zoom is, you know, your hand as I take it older,
Speaker 12 (02:18:11):
Older than me and I'm old too.
Leo Laporte (02:18:13):
<Laugh> so zoom is something that everybody kind of knows how to use cuz of the pandemic. Zoom has a very easy recording button. It'll record the meeting. Even if you have multiple people in the meeting, it does an excellent job of the recording. I've I've used zoom. We used zoom actually to do some of our podcasts. When our studio went down a couple of weeks ago, I went home and used zoom to record a, a round table podcast with three other journalists recorded on, on zoom. It worked beautifully. It's I highly recommended zoom has a, and you know, you get 40 minutes for free. So just, you know, and probably that's long enough for your aunt. Nobody should have to sit on a zoom call for longer than 40 minutes. So record it and you'll record it locally.
Leo Laporte (02:19:01):
It will make a file that is initially in its own weird format, but after you close the call, it, it says, you want me to convert this it'll and it gives you some choices. EG five is the most compressed, but the EG four MP four is the most compatible. So probably if you're gonna send it to your aunt, turn it to MP four. And then you could just, you can just probably what I would recommend is uploading it to something like Dropbox, one iCloud, whatever cloud storage you have and sending her a link because sending a large file is not practical in email, but send her a link and works great. Okay. Highly recommend it. I is if you're on a Mac you know, you can use FaceTime if you're there's WhatsApp. And I think almost all of these video calling solutions Facebook messenger, I think almost all of them will allow to record, but I, I view zoom and I use zoom almost all the time and it works quite well.
Leo Laporte (02:19:57):
Skype probably do it as well. I just think it seems so easy to use zoom and well, there's a reason why zoom was so dominant in the pandemic. It was just the easiest for everybody to use. And it, what was initially intended to be a business tool, ended up being the tool. Everybody used to stay in touch with family and friends while we were all locked down. So right. I think it's a way to go. And I think you're doing a good thing. When I visited my mom of course recorded a conversation. My daughter was with me and she had lots of questions about the old days and so forth. And I recorded every one of them cuz yeah, you wanna save those that's those are great. Great to have. Right,
Speaker 13 (02:20:34):
Right.
Leo Laporte (02:20:35):
Thank you very much, Leo. My pleasure mark. Thank you very much for calling zoom. You know, it's funny. I zoom really took off in the pandemic of course, as with every company in the last six months, every tech company, they've had hard, they've fallen on hard times. The stock market is a cruel master. <Laugh> you know, they reward you for the growth during the pandemic, but then the minute it slows down, as one should expect, cuz people are going back to work and can get together. Now we don't have to zoom. Each other. People freak out the stock market goes crazy. Punishes. The company people have to get laid off and so forth. It's very strange.
Leo Laporte (02:21:19):
The stock has exactly right. Big island in our chat room, says the stock has fallen on hard times, but not the company. <Laugh> that's exactly right. The company's fine. Phoenix warp says the stock market is the biggest, what have you done for me lately? It absolutely is true. I am so glad you've been here. Thank you very much. Again, I'll mention that all the links, everything we talk about on the website, tech guy, labs.com. This is episode 1910. I'm gonna miss you for a few episodes. We're going off on that geek cruise with our podcast listeners. I will not be here next Saturday. Michael Sergeant will be doing the show all by himself. Be nice. He's gonna do a great job. We'll have a best of on Sunday. That's the 17th. And then on the 23rd, Michael will do it again.
Leo Laporte (02:22:14):
Be nice. <Laugh> make, make his show a success and I'll be back on July 24th and we'll get things back underway with no plans for travel for the rest of the year. I think I'm gonna just stay home. So seeing a few, thank you for being here. Maybe if I get a chance I'll call in from the cruise ship. And if I do you know what I'm gonna say? I'm gonna say Leo. Laporte the tech guy. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next time. Have a great geek week, blah. Well, that's it for the tech eye show for today. Thank you so much for being here and don't forget twit T w I T it stands for this week@techandyoufinditattwit.tv, including the podcasts for this show. We talk about windows and windows weekly, Macintosh on Mac break, weekly iPads, iPhones, apple watches on iOS today. Security and security. Now, I mean, I can go on and on and on. And of course the big show every Sunday afternoon, this week in tech, you'll find it all@twi.tv and I'll be back next week with another great tech guy show. Thanks for joining me. We'll see you next time.
