MacBreak Weekly 893 Transcript

Please be advised this transcript is AI-generated and may not be word for word. Time codes refer to the approximate times in the ad-supported version of the show.

0:00:00 - Leo Laporte
It's time for MacBreak Weekly. Alex, andy and Jason are here and hey, good news, jason Snell actually was in New York yesterday handling the new MacBook Pro. We've got all the information you could possibly want and why it might be a little difficult to choose models. We can explain the differences. Next, on MacBreak Weekly. This is MacBreak Weekly Episode 893, recorded Halloween Tuesday, october 31st 2023.

Grayish, this episode of MacBreak Weekly is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Good news If you're hiring, you've got help ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter works for you to find great candidates fast. It's smart technology, identifies qualified candidates for you and you can invite your top choices to apply. Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/macbreakweekly. Listeners of this program get an ad-free version if they're members of Club Twit. $7 a month gives you ad-free versions of all of our shows, plus membership in the Club Twit Discord, a great clubhouse for Twit listeners, and finally the Twit Plus Feed with shows like Stacey's Book Club, the Untitled Linux Show, the GizFiz and more. Go to twit.tv/clubtwit, and thanks for your support. It's time for MacBreak Weekly, the show where we get together and talk about the latest news from Apple. And holy cow, there is news from Apple, Alex Lindsay, joined me along with Micah Sargent yesterday last night for Primetime. Scary Fast 30 Exactly Minutes Long.

So, yeah, and then you went off to your after hours crew.

0:01:56 - Alex Lindsay
And we all talk. Yeah, I'll be very curious what they said. By the way, if you're just, everybody just talked about the fact that they shot it.

0:02:02 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, don't tip my big surprise. Just want to mention it is Halloween, so you're just tuning in the video and saying I don't what's going on. What does Leo look like? An Oompa Oompa Green Bay Packer fan. It's that time of year, kids, and Alex, your costume.

0:02:24 - Alex Lindsay
My costume is a middling middle-aged man in his pile of gear that he has accumulated and it works. I was trying to find my Bain mask. I have a Bain mask, oh, that would be good.

0:02:38 - Leo Laporte
I do the whole show like Bain, oh yeah, oh really.

0:02:43 - Alex Lindsay
One of the things.

0:02:43 - Leo Laporte
I've learned over many years of Halloween is you've got to wear a costume, perform in and then you can sit in all day. This is quite, believe it or not, comfortable. Andy and I go WG BH in Boston. He is wearing orange. That's good.

0:03:02 - Andy Ihnatko
Yes, I'm wearing Joker colors, at least. Yes.

0:03:05 - Leo Laporte
Nice to see you, Andrew, and Mr Snell who is playing Valheim. I like it that you found a sweater that looks like chain mail.

0:03:17 - Jason Snell
It's just, I'm cold, leo. That's why I'm wearing a sweater. But yes, as Alex said, I am also a middling middle-aged man full of the stuff that he's collected, but with a Viking helmet on.

0:03:29 - Leo Laporte
Ladies and gentlemen welcome.

0:03:32 - Alex Lindsay
He's resisting more than I.

0:03:37 - Leo Laporte
He's fighting the middle-aged creep. So yeah, there were. I thought really. I mean, everything we heard of in the rumors were all true, by the way, except for the things like there's gonna be an iPad mini, there were Mac books and there was an iMac and there's an M3. We're gonna get to all the deeds on that, but there were two. I thought surprises that nobody knew about One black or space black.

0:03:58 - Jason Snell
Now Jason you saw it.

0:03:59 - Leo Laporte
How did you see it?

0:04:01 - Jason Snell
I went to New York and got a briefing yesterday morning with Apple and got to get my hands on them and I got to try to make fingerprints on the on the space black and all of that and yeah so I'm here. I'm ready to report back. I got to use this stuff and there was 10 hours when I knew about it. Nobody else did but those times. That time is over now.

0:04:23 - Leo Laporte
So you were in between the last week and this week you were in New York. Wow, that's awesome. Yesterday, I was in New York.

0:04:30 - Jason Snell
And now I'm back, boy, my arms tired. Yeah, it's gray, it's dark gray. I mean, like I saw a lot of people last night. They were really excited about the fact that they did a laptop in black. It's like oh man, can you imagine? It's like, yeah, well, what you're thinking of, you may like it. I mean dark. The darker gray the better, but it is still a metallic gray. It's not as dark as the midnight MacBook Air, so just don't get too excited.

0:04:52 - Leo Laporte
It's not as dark as the midnight air. No, no, not even close. So the air is the darker of the two by far. Well, I think I thought initially that this is a very smart move for Apple, because you can only get it if you get a M3 Pro or Max. So it's kind of like a status symbol. Right, oh, you must have a nice MacBook because you've got it in black, but if it's not as black as the midnight, blue.

0:05:21 - Alex Lindsay
I want Apple to come out and talk about a revolutionary process to embed Vantablack into. I'm thinking Vantablack.

0:05:30 - Leo Laporte
Why isn't it Vantablack? Why isn't? It black.

0:05:34 - Andy Ihnatko
There's no black black. Why not? I think, if they do that, they should at least be good sports and turn off that feature where if something is reported as lost, it becomes useless again because that event of black MacBook is defined to be left behind and lost. It should be like an Easter egg hunt for people who say you know what? Before I leave the Starbucks, I'm just going to be looking at the back of every seat just to see if somebody forgot a $3,000 notebook.

0:06:01 - Leo Laporte
Let me quote Jason Snell from SixColorscom. I got my greasy monkey paws on a space black laptop and can report that Apple is as good as its word, in the sense it seems generally more resistant to fingerprints and other smudges. They said they have a special anodization process on the black. Yes, but I don't want to exaggerate this feature. You can still see. Fingerprints are just not as prominent.

0:06:25 - Jason Snell
Exactly. Yeah, joanne Stern from the Wall Street Journal and I both were together. We were putting our hands on that thing and trying to get it fingerprinty. And Apple is not making a claim that they have created a fingerprint-free surface. They're not doing that. They think that people can run away with this, just like with the black where they're. Well, in that case, they're saying it's black and it's not black, it's just space gray.

Oh, I'm so disappointed, but the fingerprint thing it is better, like I have a midnight MacBook Air. The fingerprint thing they absolutely have made this new. They did something chemically in the anodization seal that repels liquid, including oil, from your fingerprints. Nice, so it's less. It's less. Still, fingerprints it's not gone. It's a little like how they do the thing where it's like, hey, we improved the glare resistance on our screens, like there's still glare, there's just less of it. This is like the fingerprint oil repulsion. Chemistry is better than it's been, but it made no mistake. You can leave fingerprints on it and you will. They'll just be less prominent than they were before which is great.

0:07:26 - Alex Lindsay
It's fingerprint resistant, not proof.

0:07:29 - Jason Snell
Yes, exactly More fingerprint resistant than in the past, and so that's nice. But again and I don't want to shame anybody if you like a dark gray laptop, go to town. This is a darker gray laptop than the last dark gray laptop. I just want to be clear that when Apple says space black, you may be thinking of, oh, the blackness of space. I reassure you now, it's just dark gray. Okay, it's not, it's just dark gray, metallic dark gray, that's it.

0:07:57 - Andy Ihnatko
I got to wonder what the limitation is Like. We've all been watching manufacturers long enough to know that white is not easy, black is not easy. Whatever you think is easy to do in the trade dress of a device, it's not easy. I wonder if that is, they made a conscious decision that they do not want this to be the cover of a SpinalTap album. How much blacker could this be? The answer is none. Or if they and that was as black as they could possibly make it consistently so to make sure that the first one is the same color as the hundred thousandth one. Or if they decide they looked at it in that sort of again, blacker than black trade dress is said. Let's take it back a couple of shades because you can't see the contours of the machine very well, and we're very proud of the look of this device.

0:08:48 - Leo Laporte
So this is not the first black MacBook, but it's the first in some, quite some time. But it's again. It's not black.

0:08:56 - Jason Snell
It's not black, it's just. I just want to be clear. There was a black MacBook back in the day. The midnight MacBook Air is pretty close to black, but this thing is not. Yeah, andy's got one, but this is not that. This is a dark gray.

0:09:09 - Leo Laporte
It's a dark metallic gray. What is that, Andy? Is that?

0:09:12 - Andy Ihnatko
the actual that's the painted black one, Pauline. No, that's like the vintage this was the most of the four.

0:09:17 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, I remember I paid 200 bucks extra for that.

0:09:21 - Jason Snell
Yeah, it's good, I love that one Matt black, no less. That's actually black. This is not.

I think it has something to do with the amortization process that Apple likes to use, that they're using anodized aluminum. They're very comfortable with it, they're very good at it. I think they feel, actually, that part of their trade dress is metallic, right? Metallic aluminum laptop is what a MacBook is, and so I think they're not going to go to a different material on, I think, maybe below a certain I don't know whether there's a physical limitation or whether they're just not happy with the results or whether they feel it doesn't feel metallic enough. But like, clearly there's. You know, they'll get a little darker. I mean, we were talking about.

0:09:58 - Leo Laporte
You know you could get a D brand scan that's black, sure, sure, exactly.

0:10:05 - Jason Snell
But for, like Apple's stock, what they want. They've gone a little bit darker and they called it black. And again, I don't think this is a scandal or anything. I just want to be clear. People are going to be disappointed if they think it's black and they order it and they get it.

That's what they're going to get is a dark metallic gray. It's darker than space gray. We held a space gray laptop up to the space black laptop and I mean it's darker. Here's what I'll say about space black. In in a well lit room, without context, if there's a laptop sitting on a table, if it's silver or space gray, I think you maybe can't tell the difference. You have to see them next to each other, otherwise they're pretty close. Even though space gray is darker, you would not mistake space black. For those other laptops it is that much darker, but it's just not black. It's you know. So, buyer beware.

0:10:52 - Leo Laporte
It's hysterical though, you're full on.

0:10:53 - Jason Snell
Darth Vader, you're not going to get it. You have to get a pro or a max to get the black, Otherwise the story of the day right Is that they got rid of the 13 inch MacBook Pro and replaced it with a 15 99 low end 14 inch MacBook Pro, which is very exciting and, I think, a great move. But to get it to 15 99, it doesn't do a lot of stuff.

0:11:14 - Leo Laporte
Well wait, it has eight gigs of Ram to get it to.

0:11:17 - Jason Snell
That's eight gigs of.

0:11:18 - Leo Laporte
Ram Eight gigs of Ram is like.

0:11:20 - Jason Snell
that's right. It's missing a USB port on the one side because it's using the M three processor, which has fewer lanes. It doesn't support two external displays it you know it is, but I would argue it has the best feature of being a 14 inch MacBook Pro, which is the screen, that promotion, bright screen is gorgeous and what it does is, although it's a lesser MacBook Pro, what it's not is that 13 inch MacBook Pro. That was from seven years ago and had a touch bar and was completely out of place in the lineup. So now it's a compromised, decontented 15 99 MacBook Pro, but it is a true 14 inch, beautiful screen MacBook Pro, even though it's got those limitations and does not face black.

0:12:04 - Leo Laporte
It is the end of the line for the touch bar. I was surprised to see from a number of sources a lament and owed to the touch bar like oh, we really liked it. We didn't admit it, but we really liked it.

0:12:19 - Alex Lindsay
No, we didn't we didn't like it at all.

0:12:23 - Leo Laporte
One guy said one guy said if you're a touch type you kept hitting it by accident, but I learned not to, and for people who weren't touch typists, it was great. Well, it's like, come on, really it was a fine it was.

0:12:35 - Andy Ihnatko
It was a fine idea. But I mean, if it became a idea, if it came away for third party developers to say by the way, we feel as though, as a human interface thing, the idea of putting bespoke function keys that are bespoke for each app directly over the keyboard, which is the one fixed part of the interface, we think that's a flexible thing to do. But from the moment that I started typing on that first demo unit and it started suggesting auto correction, like I typed th and then now the task bar says, oh, do you want to type the there? Therefore, like you're, I mean, I wanted to ask the ask. The engineers that I know are very, very smart, and I know that there's a lot of discussion. Did you really think I'm going to take my hands off a physical keyboard to navigate towards this tiny little? There was never a good reason for this thing to exist. It's one of the hallmarks of what I think is probably the worst Mac that Apple ever made.

0:13:30 - Jason Snell
Yeah, it is part of a bad era of Apple stuff.

0:13:32 - Leo Laporte
But I like the board and touch bar.

0:13:34 - Jason Snell
The most telling thing about it, I think, is like I get the impulse was let's use our multi touch savvy to build a Mac product that uses multi touch. But they put it on the keyboard plane, where you're really not looking with your eyes, ideally. And then the biggest, the truest sign of Apple's organizational dysfunction is when they ship the touch bar. The software for the touch bar essentially was never updated. The next Mac OS version came out no changes. They never changed it, so it feels. And when I say dysfunctional, I mean somebody in the hardware group thought this was a good idea, and it's clear that the people who wrote Mac software in Mac OS itself did not think it was a good idea and invested no effort in ever making it anything other than what it was at launch. And that is broken right, like, why did you make this thing if you were never going to try to improve it? And the answer is, I guess, that the people who made it had a complete disconnect. It speaks so much about how broken the Mac was in the late 2010s.

0:14:38 - Andy Ihnatko
It's a perfect example the fact that they didn't do enough testing to make people realize that even in the first generation of these Macs the escape key was also part of the touch bar. They'd done away with a mechanical escape key, not knowing how many people actually rely on that for so many of their tasks, that to make that a soft key just makes every single operation that much more painful. I mean, if we ever got together to do like a special report, I think that we should do like this to show just on that first generation of that new MacBook, because every single decision it's the George Costanza MacBook every choice they made was wrong, like, hey, here's the pro MacBook for our pro users. We decided to remove this SD card slot. Well, why did you do that? One word courage.

No, no, no, I don't think that was it, but I remember them saying that, well, we feel that the pros aren't using SD memory cards anymore. They're using Wi-Fi to connect. Are you happy?

0:15:43 - Jason Snell
Yeah Well, it's actually the same thing as saying, oh well, nobody needs a physical escape key, as if they weren't aware. Like clearly, there was a talk about your dysfunction and disconnect. They were unaware of how people used their Macs, apparently, how pros use their Macs to make these things. They were justifying weird decisions. It was such a broken time. So and again I don't want to I think could the touch bar have been made better and more useful? I think it was never going to be a great thing, but they could have tried. They never even let third parties tie into it, right? They never did anything. And that is the most broken thing of all is that they ship this thing and then they immediately essentially abandoned it.

0:16:24 - Alex Lindsay
I don't get it and the real issue was the amount of mistypes that you had with. It was so frustrating that and I don't know that was the thing to fix, because I probably would have grown to like certain things on the touch bar. But all I was up against all the time was constantly accidentally hitting something, and it was just like, you know, just like no, no, no, that's not what I wanted. Oh, how did I get? Why did that just happen? You know there's a lot of, there was a lot of like you're not even conscious to it and your computer would just do something crazy and you're just like I don't understand what just happened. And then I realized that all the things I didn't understand were just the touch bar, you know. And then you just grow to hate it and that was the. I think that was one of the issues, so moving on to the present.

0:17:06 - Andy Ihnatko
There's a lot of pent up hate about that. We're just moving RIP. These are people in pain.

0:17:13 - Jason Snell
The long national nightmare is over everybody.

0:17:16 - Leo Laporte
It is interesting, though, that all the hollering that Apple should do a touch screen MacBook has seems to have disappeared.

0:17:26 - Jason Snell
It's around, is it? I mean, I have touch screen laptops using Windows and Linux.

0:17:31 - Leo Laporte
And honestly, I hardly ever. I don't, I don't think I care.

0:17:37 - Alex Lindsay
And I think I have it. If I spend too much time on my iPad, then you have a tendency that I touch the screen, I come to the type in and I touch it and I go.

0:17:44 - Leo Laporte
I can't do that, so anyway let's move on to the present because, honestly, there's lots to talk about. But goodbye. We hardly knew you touch bar. There is a little hate for an eight gigabyte RAM, Is it? Is there any reason? I mean, I obviously you wanted to get a 1599 price point. I added, by the way, 16 gigs of RAM. Let's go back to 512 because that's fine. No, no longer the. The 256 gig option on the on the, on the base model, and they have. They were almost at pains to show dual RAM chips so that they don't have that RAM problem that the, that the older ones had. That's good. Yeah. So if I put in 16 gigs, it's 200 bucks, that's 1799. That's the real price.

0:18:35 - Jason Snell
It's still on two grand, right Like. The first thing here is their problem was they can't just say MacBook Pro, start to $2,000. And that was why that 13 was with touch bar was still around. But now they can say 1599 for a starting price, and I think they know there are.

There are probably two buyers for that low end model. There are the kind who don't care, and we'll buy it with eight gigs of RAM and you know what? The people who don't care are probably going to be okay, and then they're going to be the people who do care and they're going to give Apple a couple hundred more dollars and Apple likes that too, and so that's how they'll do it. And even when you configure it a little bit higher, you're still under two grand. So you're still able to get that screen and get a modern MacBook Pro under $2,000.

I expect that Apple is also hoping at least we'll see what happens that some of the people who are buying that 13-inch MacBook Pro because they just damn it, it had to be a MacBook Pro, whether it's people or corporations some of them at 1599 will buy the MacBook Pro and then others will look at it and go well, I could get this nice 15-inch MacBook Air big screen a little bit cheaper and it and it's good enough, right? And I think that maybe Apple is expecting they're going to spread those 13-inch MacBook Pro buyers across the 1315 Airs and this new 1599 laptop, depending on their price sensitivity.

0:20:03 - Leo Laporte
On the other end, if you max out the 16-inch MacBook Pro with an M3 Max 128 gigs of RAM and a very expensive eight terabyte solid state drive, you get up to 7,200 bucks. So that's the range 1599 to 7199.

0:20:20 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and at 7199, you're basically putting I wrote about this when the first M1 MacBook Pros came out it's like you're basically putting a Mac Pro in your backpack at that point, right Like.

And one of the stories of today that we should talk about at some point in this show is how they're differentiating the three chips, because it looks like they put their foot on the gas of the Max chip, whereas the Pro chip has sort of been turned into a mid-range chip, which is really interesting. But they know that there are. If you listened to their language last night, it was very much like for the most demanding users and I really believe that's where they're headed with that. Max chip is, you know, really like the name says max it out, make it as performant as possible, because the people are, and it's super expensive but it's also super powerful, and so the people who really really want the very best and that Mac Pro performance in their backpack, that's, they're gonna spend seven grand on a laptop and they're gonna be happy about it, but I suspect most MacBook Pro buyers will be buying the M3 Pro instead.

0:21:22 - Alex Lindsay
And I don't know if that drive is as fast as I don't know if the drive is as fast as it is in the studio, but if it's five gigs, then you wanna put as much. I used to be like, oh, I'll never get more than a terabyte of hard drive space and I really screwed up when I bought my studio that way because I just didn't realize how fast that internal drive is. And so if you're out there capturing, you know raw. You know raw 6K or 8K footage or 4K footage and you wanna edit six or seven of those. You know layers together. You do need that drive speed and you do need that power. And if you're doing it on the road, if you're a creator doing it on the road, you will need that speed and the $7,200 will not be a big deal. You know to do that, so it's great that it will scale up to that. I do say you know, like my wife does not need more than eight gigs of RAM.

0:22:13 - Leo Laporte
She doesn't do enough to you know, she probably doesn't need a MacBook Pro, she probably needs an Air anyway. Right, yeah, but if you want that, an M2-based MacBook Air is fine.

0:22:22 - Jason Snell
XDR screen right. I really believe that the screen is the number one feature on those laptops. So you're like I don't really need more than eight gigs of RAM, but I want a beautiful 14 inch XDR screen for my video watching and all that and I'm like, yeah, 1599, it's there, and also the number of USB-C connections is more on the Pro and that's a that can add, I believe, isn't it the?

same no on the low end on that M3 Pro, because it's the M3 chip it is limited by. So no support for two external displays. Right, because it's got the one built-in display. It'll only dry one. And the that extra USB port on the left side of the computer is not there on that low end system.

0:23:03 - Alex Lindsay
It's not there. It used to have. All the pros used to have Also a memory band Both sides. It's actually lower, so you're gonna.

0:23:11 - Leo Laporte
This is a. If you are specking out a new MacBook, you actually really are gonna wanna pay attention, because they've actually given up some performance in some regards.

0:23:22 - Jason Snell
Right. So the low end, the low end SKUs that have this, this M3 are missing that port. And because it's an M3, right. And it's just like on the 13 inch MacBook Pro and on the MacBook Airs, where the M1 and M2 have the same limitation. So the M3 will drive one external display, the M3 Pro will drive two, the M3 Max will drive, I think, four, like it is Up to 6K, I mean really a lot of performance.

Yeah, so it really scales. But you're right, Leo, one of the quirks like the M3 Pro chip has fewer performance cores than the M2 Pro chip did. Actually it's six performance cores and really performance scales with performance cores. So they're giving back performance and then getting it back just in the M3 being more efficient. But like they are clearly kind of like repositioning that chip as this mid-range chip. For that, honestly, most pros don't need more power than that, so they're okay with it, but you are losing that. And then, as you pointed out, the memory bandwidth is actually less than on the M2 Pro because again, the Pro used to feel like it was the Max's little buddy and it doesn't feel like that anymore. The Max is like going into the stratosphere and it's gonna be much more expensive, but into the stratosphere and the Pro is kind of like inching back toward the M3 as a mid-range chip. So they're really it's the first time we've really seen this kind of differentiation.

0:24:50 - Leo Laporte
And this is probably what it's gonna be going forward. They've decided to make a stronger differentiation between Pro and Max.

0:24:58 - Jason Snell
I think they know right. They know that the bulk of their Pro users don't need all those features of the Max, but they know that their high-end users do. And what do you do in that case? And the answer is you gotta differentiate, right? Because that high-end chip's super expensive. But some people are like seven grand for a laptop. I don't care, give me the Max performance.

I think that's the Alex Lindsey, so right, but the Pro, like most a lot of people that are kind of in the mid-range, like they want more than the M3, but they don't need a Max, right? So they're trying to make that something that is more affordable or has the right margins for Apple that they can make in bulk and that the bulk of the MacBook Pros are gonna go with that one. So I think that's why they're doing it this way, so that they can please your general-purpose Pro-ish user who wants to spend three grand, two grand on a laptop and still please the people who are gonna buy that M3 Max and let's not forget, in the $7,000 laptop. But they're also gonna buy it in the Max Studio, they're gonna buy it as an Ultra in the Mac Pro.

0:25:58 - Leo Laporte
An Ultra would be really just two Max's glued together. It's two Max's yeah, so, and I also thought it was interesting, at the very beginning of the event they showed a video and they took great pains to show the different kinds of users, and I think this is also an adjustment to the marketing, because it used to be well, there's Pro users, but now Pro users could be software development, photo editing, stem, graphic design. They even had medical imaging. They had some very interesting categories.

And, by the way, gaming is one of the categories now. We'll talk about that in a bit.

0:26:36 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I noticed they seem to be. I watch enough Apple marketing, right, leo, and you start to pick up on oh, they've got some new categories here and I feel like and they also use the phrase for the most the users who demand the most.

I feel like they're trying to create those spaces where they can say this is why the Max exist, the Max, m3 Max, not Max M3 Max exist versus the M3 Pro, to sort of differentiate them. So they're definitely trying to sort of like set the stage, for we've got our super demanding, high end users and then we've got people who just want this amazing performance, which is that approach.

0:27:15 - Leo Laporte
And then we've got the suckers like Leo who just say well, I'm gonna buy the fastest thing because, for bragging rights, seven grand please and because it's black.

0:27:26 - Andy Ihnatko
Ish Ish Ish. Benchmark tests prove that M3 is one larger than M2.

0:27:32 - Leo Laporte
Did you get to do? You didn't get to do any hands-on besides the fingerprint. You didn't.

0:27:37 - Jason Snell
Yeah.

0:27:39 - Leo Laporte
I mean how much it was limited, yeah, to fingerprints. Okay, so we don't we'll have to wait for benchmarks and so forth. Apple had its usual Right next week Oddball graphs that were actually pretty hard to interpret, In fact, they we were a little confused during the event. Anthony Nielsen was trying to figure out. Well, what, if I go back and forth, it's very weird when you look at the processors.

0:28:05 - Andy Ihnatko
It's such a bad thing that Apple is getting famous for having graphs that you just have to just say that's very, very pretty, we're putting that on the fridge. It's such a pretty graph and not really it tells us nothing. That it's gonna tell us anything, or exactly.

0:28:16 - Leo Laporte
Well, what's funny is last week Qualcomm in their best new event they're, you know we're better than M2 event Hags almost identical graphs Like this is now gonna be the standard.

0:28:28 - Alex Lindsay
Well, it's interesting that Apple Apple's gotten everyone to play in their branch. Yeah, so, and I think that I think it's gonna be interesting because Qualcomm got to do that for a week. As we said, one of the things that that-.

0:28:38 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, by the way, it was very funny because Qualcomm compared everything to the M2. And it was almost as if Apple said hold my beer and then just said, no, that's all we don't yeah.

0:28:49 - Alex Lindsay
Well, and one of the things we talked about in office hours after the show, after the show we had there, was that we were talking about who is the target market, and really I think a lot of times the target market is not the people who just bought M2s. The target market is the M1 owners and, most importantly, there's still a lot of Intel owners out there that are you know like when should I jump in? And so when those graphs that say 11 times, 11 times Intel faster holy 11 hours more battery life too.

0:29:18 - Jason Snell
I love that. It's very clear that there are lots of people out there still on Intel and we as tech nerds are like, oh, intel, that's old news and, like I know, those numbers make Apple look good. But the truth is lots of people I know, I have lots of friends who still have Intel MacBook Pros. They still have Intel iMacs.

0:29:34 - Leo Laporte
Well, especially iMacs, they're on four five, six year cycle absolutely.

0:29:38 - Alex Lindsay
And I have a stack of Mac minis in a Mac studio. But my work, my road computer which I don't do very often is still an Intel. This is the last Intel that came out. I bought it I haven't it right before COVID, and so I haven't been able to justify buying another computer.

0:29:54 - Leo Laporte
But when they say 11X, I start going yeah, maybe I should start thinking about it, but I think I'll take a little break to keep us on target time wise. And then I do want to talk about a new idea that they introduced this memory caching thing, and I want to understand what they're talking about, what that means. We are breaking it down the day after scary fast.

0:30:22 - Jason Snell
I can't say that. I talked to somebody at Apple who explained to me how that caching thing works.

0:30:27 - Leo Laporte
But if you had, you were gonna tell us what you would but I could try to explain it to you.

0:30:32 - Andy Ihnatko
You would I can't. I still, even despite that benefit, try to speculate on what you imagined and such a thing would go.

0:30:38 - Alex Lindsay
I can't say that. I talked to Andy Carluccio about it and I mostly understand it.

0:30:43 - Leo Laporte
Oh, yes, andy, who we love because he's the Zoom. Iso guy who really helped us set up Zoom. Iso writes his software for Apple Silicon.

0:30:53 - Alex Lindsay
So he was a guy I'm probably closer to the truth, so we'll listen to Jason first.

0:30:57 - Jason Snell
Yeah, and then you can clean it up for me. That'll work.

0:30:59 - Leo Laporte
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I hope to God they're only listening. That's all I can say. Yeah, I don't know if I have the most credible mean at this point with my giant Packers hat. All right, so if they were very. By the way, I said there were two surprises and we're gonna get to the second surprise, which was at the very end, they said oh, by the way, the whole thing was shot on an iPhone and we have some stills from the press release video that Apple put out and I think Alex and I and you guys will go through it one by one to see how they shot this on iPhone.

But before that, one of the very first things they talked about was memory caching. Now this is what I took away from it, and I'm sure, jason, you can disabuse me of everything I know. What I took away from it is you know, as a developer, you know this you will allocate memory as you write your program, or the compiler will, based on how much memory it's gonna need, and that's kind of written in stone, but it's wasteful because until you actually need that memory, if ever that memory is allocated is not available to any other process Apple says oh, you know what, you don't have to worry. Developers keep doing what you're doing. But in hardware, we are gonna pay attention and if there's available memory, at least temporarily, we're gonna allow other processes to use it and we'll give it back to you when you absolutely have to have it. That's kind of what I got from Apple's presentation. How close to the facts is that Jason?

0:33:51 - Jason Snell
Yeah, that's about right. The idea here with dynamic caching is the impression I get is that this was Apple looking at ways to make their GPUs more efficient and that they were supremely motivated to dig in and find other ways. So, like the GPU performance that you get in the M3 is not just better because the GPUs are better, faster in general, but one of the ways that they were able to increase performance is using this dynamic caching method, so that's one of the ways they were able to eke out even greater GPU performance as trying to be as efficient as possible.

0:34:26 - Leo Laporte
This is not an operating system level feature. This is in the hardware right. This is M3 only.

0:34:33 - Jason Snell
Simple chip level M3 only, and what it's doing is, like you said, at Compile, you can choose. If you're working on a GPU and I know this is really technical, but it's super simplified, believe me is you can choose like how much memory does each thread have in terms of the registers, literal registers of memory, how much memory does each thread get? And you set it up and your choices are to sort of like what's the peak I'm gonna need? And then you set up a peak and you take all that memory because you know that sometimes you'll need all of it but other times you won't. And then in other cases, you allocate a small amount and you think I'll try to fill it. But that's one of those places where, if it fills, you gotta delay action. It's like a bottleneck. You gotta delay action until you can clear some of it and then reclaim it.

And what Apple is trying to do here, without any recompiling there's nothing the software needs to do is Apple is watching the memory being used by threads and dynamically allocating and deallocating based on what's needed.

So what they were looking at and you saw that in their little animation is if you're reserving for the peak there are, every trough is just waste of memory and if it's the only thread, it doesn't matter.

But if you've got dozens of threads on the GPU in a really intensive activity and a bunch of them are reserved for this peak use but they're in the trough, you are wasting memory bandwidth that could be going to something else, and so the system is gonna look and say you don't need that right now and some other thread can get access to that memory and then when you need it, you get it back and likewise, if it looks like there's a bottleneck, it will increase the amount of memory allocated to that thread so it can get out of the bottleneck. So this whole system is basically it's a really different way of dealing with memory on the GPU. It's transparent to the software, it's optimized to make the memory as efficient as possible, and Apple says I'd be interested. Experts in GPUs will probably find other approaches that are similar to this from other companies, but at least the people at Apple that I talked to said this is a thing that Apple basically did. That has not really been done before because they were so motivated to improve the GPU efficiency.

0:36:57 - Leo Laporte
So this is how they did it. Do any other GPUs do this? Is this a no? This is new.

0:37:02 - Alex Lindsay
It's cause it's. So. One of the things that's happening here and what we're not sure of is whether really talking about RAM or whether we're talking about the cache. So the important thing is they keep on saying cache, and it's important.

0:37:13 - Leo Laporte
Well, the quote was allocate the use of local memory in real time.

0:37:17 - Alex Lindsay
Right, but they keep on talking about this dynamic caching and why that's important is that there's a lot of memory, there's gigabytes of memory, of RAM that's available, but the amount of L2 cache is now like I think in the new M3 is like 16 megs or 16 gigs or something. It's a no, it's huge. Sorry, it's huge.

0:37:36 - Leo Laporte
No, no, 16 megs, no no, no, oh, megs is tiny.

0:37:38 - Alex Lindsay
It's tiny. It's like this little amount of data there. So these caches are very small and so then, using things like branch prediction, speculative execution, what you can do is say look at how it's using that cache, because that's what you're using up really quickly. If something says I need 12 megs, it may only need 12 megs once in the entire time you run the show. But it says for this operation and it's not just multiple things, it may have a bunch of things that all need. When they're all stacked together, they need 36 megs of RAM, of cache, not RAM cache. They need 36 megs of cache, but they don't need it all at one time. This one needs it now and this one's gonna need it. So, looking at those branches and looking at how it's using it, what it can do is start to figure out well, they don't need that. And the worst case scenario is that, oh, we miscalculated because it did something unpredictable and it throws it out to RAM which is slower than what's there. But what it can do is actually. So it's really.

0:38:42 - Leo Laporte
I think. I think they're doing it with cache not with RAM.

0:38:46 - Alex Lindsay
We think that what they're trying to handle.

0:38:48 - Jason Snell
It's in the name, right.

0:38:49 - Leo Laporte
So it's dynamic cache.

0:38:51 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, but caching's a technique Well, but we think though, though, that, as well as the thing, it's a now-in-a-ver, it's not a RAM that's the problem.

It's the fact that the cache is so small. But the cache is way faster than the RAM. So the thing is is that the cache is super fast if you can keep it there and to remember, to go back into history lesson. We talked about this a little bit, I think yesterday and before, but there was a.

The problem in Motorola was that the G3s and the G4s was that the G3 simply was gonna double the cache that was on, the G3 was gonna double its cache and the G4 guys, the 604 guys, didn't pay attention to that at all and suddenly you ended up with laptops that were twice as fast as the, as the, than the towers, and the reason for that was because of this cache.

But the problem is because the cache is, you know, screaming fast, because it's right on that GPU. So the. So the thing is is that the. So I think that what they're doing there is they're saying well, I know that you need 36 megs, but you only need this much at one time and as you run it, we're gonna figure out how to.

You know, as you run it, we're gonna watch what you're doing and then we're gonna get spec, have this, you know, speculative execution where we're gonna start getting ready for you to do this thing and saying you only need this much so I can put be packed these other things in. It doesn't mean it's gonna crash or anything else, but what it's gonna do is dump it back out to RAM when you run out of cache. But it's more, but it can be much more aggressive about what it keeps on that cache, which potentially now for operations with tons and tons of texture maps and tons and tons of geometry, it probably isn't gonna make any difference, but for things that sit inside of that cache it could make it, I mean much, much faster, like I don't know exactly how much, but like two three times four.

0:40:31 - Leo Laporte
To confirm what you're saying. I'm looking at the pros on Apple's webpage and I think you're right because it says dynamic caching optimizes fast on chip memory.

0:40:43 - Jason Snell
On chip memory. So RAM is not on chip. Ram is a separate chip. It's in package.

0:40:47 - Leo Laporte
But not on chip In package, but not on chip. They're using LPDDR5 chips. So if you're saying optimizes fast on chip memory, it is the, it's the on chip cache.

0:40:59 - Alex Lindsay
Which is tiny, which is that's why you have to get aggressive, Like when you have all that RAM. At first, when they said it, it was like I don't understand why, why that would be that big of a deal. But when you're talking about a tiny little cache, being able to squeeze more out of it, it would make a big deal.

0:41:15 - Jason Snell
Well, and you can. I mean, what I said in my story was that they were extremely motivated to do this right, and that's the impression that I get is that they were like how, what are, what are the inefficiencies down at this cache level that we haven't addressed, that are just that are sitting there, and this is what they found right, which is exactly what Alex described the idea that you've got threads that are just gluttonous because there's a moment when they need that much and the rest of the time they don't, and so so Apple's basically saying yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, tell us what you want and you'll get it when you need it, but when you don't need it, you don't get it and, as a result, more stuff can be in the fast cache right next to the processor, and that means that everything runs faster. And, according to Apple, this is one of the reasons that graphics performance on this chip is so much better is because it's like getting a bigger cache, essentially, and a far more efficient cache. Why not put in a bigger?

cache, it's cost, it's real fast stuff.

0:42:21 - Leo Laporte
You have 96 billion transistors in the max. Seems like you might have enough to put in.

0:42:28 - Jason Snell
I mean, I know I look like an idiot but, Well, in this case they didn't have to right Like in this case, they did some very clever improvements that they're using it more efficiently, which is kind of clever, and that dynamic cache is a marketing name for a very complex concept, but like they're just trying to explain and show some pride and show their technical prowess that they did this. But that was their goal. And as we've talked about Apple Silicon all this time, it's very clear that efficiency is like a huge thing for them. They're so obsessed with being more efficient and optimizing.

Right right, they're not as concerned. They're obviously concerned about performance, but they also really care about efficiency and performance for a lot and things like that, and I think that efficiency drive is what motivates them to build a feature like this, instead of just slapping in more L2 and calling it a day.

0:43:20 - Leo Laporte
Also, that's a weak spot in Apple Silicon they don't support discrete GPUs, so all the burden for GPU performances on Apple entirely. And just as they did with the iPhone 15, they now have ray tracing and they have. What is this mesh thing they're talking about?

0:43:39 - Jason Snell
It's another thing, that is, it's another. I mean, Alex probably knows exactly what it is, but it's like these two things are techniques that are used. They're both in that iPhone Pro chip as well. This isn't new to this. It was in the iPhone Pro chip too, but you put it in the processor. The iPhone Pro chip is essentially an.

0:43:54 - Leo Laporte
M3, right, it's a little tiny M3. Yeah, it's a different node, but it's essentially an M3. It and initially you think, well, ray tracing and mesh, this is for gaming, shading, but it's also for what? Any kind of graph, ar, ar, yeah, so they are.

0:44:17 - Alex Lindsay
So the you know the AR could is definitely something that could. That'll benefit from the both of those things you know. So right now, for instance, we're limited. If you send something to somebody, you're limited about two million polygons and about 50 megs for the file. So if I, if I send you, if I text you in a US USDZ file and it's more than 50 megs or more than you know, I think, two million polygons, it will say I can't, I can't do that, even though it. But now it should be able to create, you know, increase that and the efficiency of that renderer. If you start sending heavy models back and forth, it's gonna be more efficient.

That mesh, the mesh rendering could be pretty interesting. I don't know enough about it yet because brand new, so so I don't know with the mesh rendering but the but the, it feels like when, when they showed an example and they kind of brush past it. It doesn't feel like it's exactly like nanites, but it feels like it's in the same family. You know, I'm gonna figure out a way to render. You know a lot of this. Nanites is an unreal engine feature, right, yeah, something epic has an unreal and and so which is super powerful, like it is.

A like nanites, is game-changing for you know, showing large environments and so on, so forth and so, and it does bring up a question that came up in office hours a couple times, which was I do we really think that the the vision pro is gonna come out with an m2, like they showed it with an m2? The demo units are on m2, but it feels like if you're gonna release this and then wait another two or three years, we release the next one. It feels like the M. What may be happening is that the, that the we may see an m3 in there, we may see increased frame, you know, resolution and and Frame rates and stuff like that may come in, because there's been, there's been, a little bit of confusion, because you know Apple is, you know they're, they're saying 90 frames, but there's folks that are getting requests for more, so so it's. So I think that there's, I think that that's gonna be. It'll be interesting to see what, what happens there.

0:46:10 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, and also Apple. Apple has a track record of Taking all these high performance graphics operatives and not simply putting them in places where you expect a high performance graphics mode to be Relevant. I wouldn't be surprised if you're going to. This is sort of things gonna start to power like 4k, 60 frame per second.

I message video chat, not necessarily next month, but maybe next year, and it's something that I think that has been a lot of on a lot of our minds. When you have this really really very, very different mode of video chat that happens on the vision pro, would Apple really benefit if those modes were only available for ones before Chats that happened between two users of the same $3,000, like high performance VR AR headset, whereas would you like to basically make sure that the person that you're talking to, who's in an office, who's looking at a screen, who has Halfway decent video conferencing camera, maybe they can get the benefits of that as well, so they can also get 4k, 60 frame per second, because it's not necessarily transferring, encoding and transferring video at that frame rate. It's actually creating a model that it then Transacts between these two parties. So we're gonna see this pop up in a lot of different places.

0:47:25 - Leo Laporte
I think it just also to be clear about dynamic caching, because there seems to be some confusion in our discord. This isn't why you have 8 gig, max 8 gigs of RAM. This has nothing to do with right now. I think. Do with it. It's all about GPU performance. Has nothing to do with Ram. Correct, yeah, yeah.

0:47:42 - Andy Ihnatko
I'm a little the the one place I'm really confusable. One place I'm really confused about this is they is basically the idea of okay. The one of the biggest eye-popping numbers that they put out last night during a half-hour presentation was 21 hour potential battery life and we know 22 okay and it 22.

Yeah and and and. Well know that, okay, that's under really, really good conditions. But Apple Usually has a way of saying no, no, we can actually demos, we can actually back this up. We're not simply saying that here's the here's which moon of Jupiter you need to be operating on for this battery life to happen.

0:48:17 - Leo Laporte
Let me read you a footnote on that, because it's fairly long. Testing conducted by Apple September and October 2023 using pre-production 16-inch MacBook Pro systems with Apple M3 Pro Pro yes, zoom in, will you, because it's fine print 12 core CPU, 18 core GPU, 36 gigs of RAM and 512 gigs SSD. The wireless web test measures battery life by wirelessly browsing 25 popular websites with the spray Display brightness set to eight clicks from bottom. The Apple TV app movie playback test measures battery life by playing back HD 1080p content with display brightness set eight clicks from the bottom. So 22 hours, yeah, of that.

0:48:59 - Andy Ihnatko
But yeah Well, it looks closely, it's fine friend.

0:49:03 - Leo Laporte
I know.

0:49:05 - Andy Ihnatko
And part of it is now that now they have any AV one and decoder built-in on chips. That's got to have a factor. But but they're also talking about how this new caching system is also contributing to that, that performance. So I'm trying to figure out like what circumstances are we going to get the best Benefit from that performance? Is it really going to be hey, I'm rendering out a really, really big project file or is it going to be like the typical situation that I have here, where I have I have A dozen apps open, each doing a little tiny separate thing?

0:49:36 - Leo Laporte
I've got a browser not that windows and several tabs in it, right, it's watching Apple TV At 1080p, eight clicks below, eight clicks above the darkest for 22 hours, and the web browsing is 15 hours. And, by the way, that's also on the 16 inch because there's more battery.

0:49:54 - Jason Snell
Well, the challenge with this right is that performance is what you do with it, and so, yeah, you could kill the battery real fast with some stuff, and other stuff will go forever, and what I fairly Realistic with their estimate.

0:50:06 - Leo Laporte
A lot of the other PC.

0:50:08 - Jason Snell
I know this is inside baseball, but, like we back in the day, we had a Macworld lab and some of those people work in performance marketing at Apple.

Now, right, like, and they are building it very much like they did at Macworld back in the day they are building repeatable tests that can be compared across generations, and that is so. Battery claims are what you make of them, but I think the important thing here is when Apple says wireless web, you compare last generation to this generation and the numbers, the, the tests are the same, so the numbers are comparable and that's the important thing, right, because again, is anybody gonna really get 22 hours? Probably not, but you know that that's, that is possible with this use case and that if you compare it to the last generation, 14 inch, they only said 18 hours, and so, exactly, we're efficient there and that's, that's all right. It's in the eye of the beholder because you could, I could kill this thing in five hours. It's like, yes, you can. Well, you know what to do, you can kill it in five hours, but well every use case is different.

0:51:07 - Leo Laporte
To be fair, let's look at the battery life, because the Mac Pro or the Mac, the empty pro, the m3 max is 18 hours in the 14 inch, just as it was before. However, the 14 inch M3 is 22 hours. So that's that is. I want to correct myself. It's not just the 16 inch, so the m3 is is a little bit more efficient as well Than the pro and the max, as you would expect.

0:51:33 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the next week of analysis on exactly what this new threat performance With this new caching system actually has, whether one of the all of the knock-on effects, because it seems to me as though this is not just simply hey look, fire performance in a bnc. It's like, oh, and we also didn't figure out that when you're doing when you're when you're when you're doing like a data transfers to like a remote NAS, remote NAS to do, when you're doing the high-speed, late latent cloud computing setups, how fast can you get this data in and out through the networking bus and through the CPU? Hey, wow, because it turns out that there's so many microcontracts transactions that are happening there. That's actually increasing performance of the networking by at least 8%. That would be interesting to find out as well.

0:52:14 - Leo Laporte
I don't know. Well, I mean yes, though I mean it's it's GPU performance. Does the GPU get involved in that kind of thing? I Don't know. I mean traditionally not on a, not on a PC. It's CPU bad, right, right.

0:52:28 - Jason Snell
There's a whole. I mean Apple calls out what they want to call out. But Andy's right, the sense that M3 is lots of different things. Right, it's not the M2. They do lots of little tweaks in there that affect performance in different ways in different places in the system. And when they claim like CPU or GPU or or or neural engine or Something like the AV one codec, right, which is a little thing, but it means that if you're downloading AV one from YouTube or Netflix, it's not being decoded in software anymore and that saves huge on battery, like the little tweaks here and there. We won't know until we've got our hands on it how that affects, you know, anybody's individual use case, because it will be different. Right, like every one of these chips has its own little Personality here and there that the Apple has built in like little. Well, that's the secret. Right is software means you can do anything. You can program it to be anything you want, but the stuff that is very common they try to put in the hardware so that it's way more efficient.

0:53:23 - Alex Lindsay
And this is where you know again, apple is in its own little world now, which is that they have their own ID, they have their own operating system, they have their own hardware, they have their own, you know. They have all these things all tied together and the ability to kind of take full advantage of the hardware, take full advantage, you know, and of efficiencies and so on so forth, is much more in their wheelhouse. It's not that other companies can't do it, it's just a lot harder. I mean it is. It is a lot harder for a consortium to figure this out and In agree on everything at the speed that Apple's doing it at. I think that's the real. They're taking advantage of the, but there's oftentimes a disadvantage of them being the only ones that do this. It is an advantage.

0:54:01 - Leo Laporte
If you integrate all those things together, I think Apple's made it very difficult, though, for the end user to figure out what they're getting. Look at, this is apples. You know, let's get more detailed, and this confused the hell out of us yesterday on the processors, and If you click these different tabs, they're not even comparing the same things. It's all over the place, and so I mean I think a consumer's gonna say, oh, it's 3.7 times faster, that's all I need to know. Well, it's 3.7 times faster than a 13-inch MacBook Pro with an i7.

0:54:32 - Alex Lindsay
Well, and I think that that calls towards them constantly wanting to. They're really the growth of their sales are against people who still have Intel machines that they're trying to, and they just I mean, alex, they're just picking the best numbers.

They're not, no, no, but I'm saying that that that, but I think that they're. They're specifically pinpointing what you're seeing is that comparison to a, to the Intel machines, because people like me are impacted by going, oh, 11 times faster than my laptop, you know, and and it's maybe it's not a perfect one-to-one, but the point is is that I think that that that is really what Apple is is focusing on is how do we get all these Intel folks that are still there? That's a big, there's a big pot of gold. There is a bunch of Intel users, that. How do you move them to the M series? And it's less about the M ones and the M twos and more about getting there. That's just the easiest place to dig to. That's the easiest place to dig for gold is where there's a lot of Intel folks and the, and the math is starting to get pretty overwhelming.

0:55:30 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I agree, I mean Leo. Yes, one of the reasons is it's a big number and they like that you just want you to see the purple number.

0:55:36 - Leo Laporte
That's all they want you to say.

0:55:38 - Jason Snell
It's not just it's not just, and the reason is that, although we tech nerds like to believe that everybody buys a new computer every year or two, I get the distinct impression from talking to people at Apple that there is an enormous set of MacBook Pro users and iMac users who are still on Intel and they haven't moved and they're not in the Apple Silicon world. And they are trying with this marketing and it is Marketing and they are selling something which is a new computer. They are trying to get them all Out, right, like get out of Intel. It is because the truth is, yes, it's like night and day now, from an old, even the best Intel iMac, even the best Intel MacBook Pro, is not close to what the Apple Silicon one is. And it's clear, like Apple knows Better than any of us do on the outside what they're buying cycles are like, and I think that they realize that they still got a lot of people To market to who are on Intel and they're trying to get them to come over to Apple Silicon, whereas people with M1s and M2s are much less likely to move because those are all, because, let's face it, even an M1 is a pretty great processor even now.

So but Intel, that's a ripe opportunity for them to get people who are on a Four-year or five-year cycle, who've got a 2016 iMac, that they're still sitting on a 2018 MacBook Pro, to get them off of it. So it's both. It is marketing, it is a big number. They like that. But I called them on it yesterday. I was like come on Intel and you know I'm not supposed to quote them, but I will just say I got the strong impression that there is still a lot of Mac users on Intel and they want to get out debating that.

0:57:07 - Leo Laporte
But I think that these slides are really designed. You know, here's, here's photo editing and If you really break it down, they're comparing it to a 13-inch MacBook Pro with i7. Yeah, m1 is the 14 inch, m1 is is twice as fast already. They don't put that number there because then it's 2.7 times for an M2 Pro and 2.9 times you know, which is 10% faster.

0:57:34 - Jason Snell
They're not selling that.

0:57:35 - Leo Laporte
They're not selling that anymore, but I understand you and you say this in your article too, and I think this is important for People who are paying close attention. People will listen to this show. For instance, what is the bump from an M2 to an M3? It's, you say, about 10 to 15. We won't know until we get one.

0:57:52 - Jason Snell
We don't know, but yeah, 15% it's not.

0:57:55 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's 10% on the phone and I think maybe some of us me anyway, and I know I don't look like this sharpest tool right now but I thought that the 3 nanometer node would show. Maybe just buy in by itself because it's a 3 nanometer node, better than 10% performance improvement over even a little too.

0:58:17 - Jason Snell
Yeah, we don't know. And they reshuffle the cores and they've reshuffled all of this. I would say what's really telling about this marketing is they're not comparing it to today's Intel because they're not interested. They're really not. They're comparing it to old Intel max because they're trying to market to people who still have.

0:58:31 - Leo Laporte
Well, and it is a good number, I mean 11 times faster than the iMac. Intel iMac is pretty good and, by the way, Lisa was using an Intel iMac until about a month ago when she bought an M1 iMac. And, truthfully, if you're, you shouldn't feel bad if you've got an M1, because, yeah, the M3 is 11 times faster but the M1's probably 10 times faster. That's a huge difference.

0:58:57 - Andy Ihnatko
But I do think I get what you're trying, what you're saying here, that like it does feel a little bit by comparing it with, like Intel based Macs. It feels a little bit like Apple is comparing a jet fighter to Do it, to a 1960 to Chevy. It's like it's not, it's not relevant. I'm not sure if it's an effective marketing message, because I think anybody who's who owns an Intel based Macbook there it's probably three, four, five years old at this point they know that a Mac that's that's five years newer is probably going to be substantially better in a great many ways and it's it's gonna be a little bit of a twist in the next year or two when they really can't do that anymore and they have to basically compare themselves to themselves.

0:59:40 - Leo Laporte
We got a guy in the IRC named Tellingly power Mac 8500 who says the Intel systems are just fine and people don't want to be forced to the new OS versions that make everything vastly different and even M1 even breaks some software that people use Mr Fancy pants flexing that he doesn't have a sixty thousand processor power.

1:00:00 - Andy Ihnatko
Mac 8500 some of us are more efficient than you, sir. This is. This is a slide, though.

1:00:05 - Leo Laporte
This is a slide that everybody will look at and go and gasp the. This is MacBook Pro 14 inch 3d rendering in Redshift 49 times faster than an i7 and a MacBook Pro. That's a big number. That's a lot, that's a big number and, by the way, more than twice as fast on the M3 max and the M2 max. So that's probably their best.

1:00:30 - Jason Snell
That's probably their best test, so you got to show the best test. But but yeah, I. I think the interesting thing here and Andy touched on it is these are people who haven't gotten the Apple Silicon Buzz. I mean, they know that they've got an old laptop, but you can see Apple here being like hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, come on, come on, get off of Intel now already right, like it's time, get get going. I think, it serves those two purposes pretty well. Right, it's a great number. You got a lot of 49x.

And they know that they've got those people that haven't made the plunge yet. Now we're in the third generation of these chips and they're like make the move already.

1:01:09 - Alex Lindsay
Okay, and get over here and definitely making sure that they know what that number is, what that multiplier is. I think, using that number as a you know, as this constant reference, because there's still millions and millions and millions of millions of people that are still sitting on Intel chips. I am, I have computers that are still sitting on Intel chips. I have a lot. Most of my computers aren't now some version of an M series, but I still have, I don't know, half the computers that we have it on. I know are still Intel and so so we're still. You know, when you start looking at those numbers, you're like, oh, I got to get rid of those computers.

1:01:39 - Leo Laporte
There is. I mean the top line performance bumps are pretty good to 80. This is from the front page on Apple dot com 80% faster CPU Multi-threaded performance than a 16-inch MacBook Pro with an M1 max. So you know that's a, that's a lot of max see.

1:01:56 - Jason Snell
That's what I was saying about the max being the place where they're putting the Pedal to the metal, like that's where you're gonna see the Real performance boost is that they increase the core count, a CPU core count, performance cores. They increase the GPU core count. That max chip is really fast and that's the number that I noticed was. The most impressive to me was how much faster the m3 max is, then the M1 max that's in my max studio.

It's a lot and that's part of that Differentiation that they're doing, where they're trying to say like, look, if you want it dramatically faster, we put that in the max because that's where it matters. And the other ones they're kind of like managing it for price and for they're a little bit faster. They could make them faster but that would make them more expensive and they're not trying to do that. I you know. So that's that's where you really see. At that high end is where you'll see the ultimate sort of like judgment of this generation of chip is how much faster is that fast chip, even though that doesn't really affect you if you're just an m3 buyer or an m3 profile fire 80% faster and 80% more expensive I'm.

1:03:04 - Leo Laporte
The m3 14 inch base model is 1799. The m3 max 14 inch base models 13199. Now, admittedly, there's some other benefits to that, like 36 gigs of memory, but still yeah. So you're paying a lot if you want a max and you know who you are.

1:03:29 - Alex Lindsay
Right, I mean again, you do the math around time, like how much time, what is your time worth and what are you doing with it. And if it's something that you're sitting there watching, I mean I we were talking again about this earlier today. We were when I was at ILM. I wrote a three-page paper about why 64 more megs of RAM would this is how much you're paying me to watch my screen, right, and this is how, when it'll pay off, it'll pay off in like four months and then every four months after that it keeps paying itself off. And so, as a, when you're talking about that kind of performance, it should be either someone who just has a stupid amount of money that's just buying things because they can.

But for the most part, the people who are buying these maxes are doing that calculation like how much do I get paid? How much time do I lose? You know, not having it ready to go and and even just a little rip like that redshift, test that 49 times faster. That is a big deal. When you're sitting there going, how does my? I got to render one frame to figure out whether my lighting is okay. Yeah, I have to render a couple things to see, you know whether this is colliding correctly or this particle system is doing what it's supposed to do, and me sitting there for 50 minutes instead of one minute is a big deal, like you know, and and and. So those are the kind of things. And because, again, the people who are using redshift and looking at that, you know the you, they're the people who never will finish their project. They'll just run out of time. I like their project will be as good as they had they had time to execute against, and so Time really is money at that point.

1:04:55 - Leo Laporte
Do you think that the people who are buying these MacBooks will get the information they need, will be able to make the decision based on the information apples provided on there and they're storing on there?

1:05:06 - Alex Lindsay
Mostly you look at it, go wow, it's a lot faster, like you know, like, and it's, and again, if I think, if you have an M2, you're gonna, you know, like Someone's on a cadence and they'll go what? This is the opera. Usually what happens is you have to keep releasing these and you have to Keep on showing those numbers, because all of us have been conditioned to wait to buy something until Until the new release, right?

1:05:25 - Leo Laporte
like you're always. When you now's, when you make that cow, you calculate.

1:05:28 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, you, you, you, you let it go out. I mean, the perfect time in my opinion is about two months after the release, because the If there's any idiosyncrasies, if they don't change the, the model and all they're changing is the chip, then you can do it right afterwards. If they change there, they change some stuff, they made it look different. You.

You're like maybe I'll let it go a month or two of them, like quirky, because there've been a couple times when apples released not released a new version, but Obviously some, some parts of the manufacturing got better after the first month or two. So so you know, if it's a new form factor, then I tend to wait a little bit. If it's not a new form factor, then you can buy it immediately and that's when you're getting the biggest bang for your buck. Theoretically you know. And then then you wait until the next upgrade Shows enough improvement that you've decided that it's time to buy another one. And usually that's for most professionals, it's for that are for max buyers that are actually using this for hard for work Every two or three years, every two or three years, you're gonna go.

1:06:29 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, you don't really have to think about that, you just wait every few years.

1:06:32 - Alex Lindsay
And then what you're waiting for that release and you're waiting for those magic Graphs and you're saying, okay, now is the time to buy the new computer.

1:06:39 - Leo Laporte
So One thing that was interesting this is the first time Apple with it Apple Silicon has released all three base model, pro and max at the same time. In the past they've Kind of stretched that out.

1:06:51 - Alex Lindsay
I I still am gonna keep on saying this it's weird to have M3s on the base models and not have M3s on the pro in the studio, like it's just, it's weird.

1:07:02 - Leo Laporte
I get that well they will do you and the pro they will. I know now what they'll be too. We don't even at that point.

1:07:08 - Alex Lindsay
It's this chip with form factor differences but they're gonna release it in June or something or March and it's just weird to have six months of of. I have a computer that is theoretically slower than a laptop, you know, and it and I get that it's small percent.

1:07:20 - Leo Laporte
I know my max. My next studio is now much slower yeah.

1:07:24 - Alex Lindsay
So the thing is, is it's like it's? I just think that Apple is going to have to eventually sync these up. I know that they're they're different, but I just can't.

1:07:32 - Jason Snell
Apple is not capable of revving every single Mac at once. They're just not because of the way, the way that they have their, their design team structured and their engineering team structured and the factory Structured, they cannot turn every single Mac model over at once. They have to stretch it out, and so they stretch it out over this.

1:07:49 - Alex Lindsay
I feel like the pros should come first, like the pros should be. I've always feel like the pro, the pro version, should be the high performance, the highest performance.

1:07:58 - Jason Snell
The most important pro product Is the Macbook pro, and it got it this time, which I think is better right.

1:08:07 - Leo Laporte
I think ultra still is new generation for the low-end.

1:08:09 - Jason Snell
Only this is not.

1:08:10 - Leo Laporte
We didn't get that They'll be Mac studio and Mac Pro with ultra, with the M3 next year sometime. Yeah, yeah, I know.

1:08:17 - Alex Lindsay
Alex wants it now, but like no, no, it's just, it's weird to be sitting on top of a Mac that you know is is like the laptop is faster than my computer that I spent X amount of Dollars on. You know it. Just I feel like it.

1:08:29 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, it's not a great user experience, that's also, there may be an issue with availability chip availability right, I mean.

1:08:35 - Jason Snell
I suspect that's a big Reason, even if there was you would still go well into ultra, like.

1:08:40 - Alex Lindsay
I feel like the low volume is the pro ones and I feel like the pro anyway. I just feel like the pro ones eventually have to be. Here's the m4 and they're on the on the Pro ones and the other m4s will come later when we can make more of them, you know.

1:08:54 - Leo Laporte
That you remind me of. I always crack up when I see on reddit people with like the finder should really look like this. Here's my redesign. Like Apple's gonna pay any attention at all, I just I.

1:09:06 - Alex Lindsay
Know that they're not paying attention. I'm just saying that it's. I know what you want. I know you want it's. No, I just feel like I don't really care. I mean, my, my studio is as fast as I need to be here's.

The reality is that I don't do the kind of work I used to do. Yeah, mine is. I can, I have time, I have a studio max and I'm quite fat. I'm quite happy with it. It's the best computer I've used. You know, I use it all day, every day. I'm very happy with it. So I it's not that big a deal to me. I just feel like when I talk to other pros, what comes up all the times? One on a laptop just came out with a. You know that's faster than my, than the computer I just spent an incredible amount of money on, and I feel like that it just kind of it's not. Apple's usually pretty good at the Surprise and delight and that, so it's not so much what I want. It's just mostly that I think that people feel a little you know there's a little tweaking there that that happens. That is not an usual Apple experience. Yeah, you know where's usually you?

1:09:56 - Andy Ihnatko
Where's our, my, usually?

1:09:57 - Alex Lindsay
if you're, if your global services, you you expect to get on first right. You know that. I think that's the deal.

1:10:03 - Leo Laporte
Are you happy about the hardware rendering the eight? Then they've added AV1 decoding what is a? Good one.

1:10:10 - Alex Lindsay
Well, av1 is a is that's the next generation of Of what we're doing for compressed audio, I mean video. So you know, instead of a TVC, you know a lot of is Apple TV using AV1? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's using it, yeah, but it's. And again, most of the processor is capable of AV1 right now. You can.

I'm a Mac and can do it, but it's now using up some of its processing time right, and it's more battery intensive for to use the GPU and CPU. So having a chip that's dedicated to it means that if you're Watching AV1, which is gonna roll out on YouTube and roll out a Netflix and roll out an Apple TV and everything else You're gonna, it's gonna take less battery To watch it. So when you're watching that stream on your laptop, on your lap, sitting somewhere in your living room at a last longer, the also zoom, you know, and other things will probably support AV1 over time and so you'll start getting AV1 streams and you know these will either be Lower bandwidth with the same quality or the same bandwidth with higher quality. You know, because AV1 is about 50% better than the nature VC and roughly 30 to 50% 30% better compression ratio, according to gumlet, and 43.9% better resolution, so so you'll either either you make it, and for companies like Netflix, it's either cheaper to stream.

This AV1 is really important to the streamers because You're now you're no longer buying a video and then watching it. So when, when you pay $15 or $29 or whatever, you're paying to buy a video from you don't download it yeah but, but.

But the point is, you did pay something up front to watch it, and so then the caught the $1 it takes or not $1, but the 20 cents that it takes to send it to you. It's not a big deal and they can make it a high-compress, you know, really high quality and everything else. But when you're paying 10 bucks a month or 20 bucks a month and you're downloading, watching hours and hours and hours and hours of content, does that actually pay off? And so getting that bandwidth to be less expensive at the same quality is super important. Like you can see it, like, for instance, netflix doesn't do it.

I don't think Netflix does a very good job of this. They keep their bandwidth really low so that they can Save money, but then they they're, you know, you watch gray man, like watch some of the bar scenes in gray man. It's like macro block city, you know, and it's because they've they've cheaped out on it, because they can't afford for you to be downloading, you know, a 20 meg streams. So they're trying to give a two and four right you know.

1:12:47 - Leo Laporte
And there's another advantage, which is that if you one gives you the advantage, hevc has a licensing fee and AV1 is unencumbered right, it's real that's.

1:12:54 - Alex Lindsay
That's the big deal. I mean, that's, it's more. It's not only more efficient, but it's more like. So H.266, or whatever that they're working on, is gonna have another licensing fee. It's gonna be more efficient than H.265, but it's gonna have licensing and nobody wants to pay that license anymore. The business has gotten too big and peg lost the thread Like they. People have been frustrated. I mean the delay of rollout of H.264, and then H.265 has all been about money, you know, and, and YouTube does not want to pay that money, and neither does Facebook and neither does you know, like lots of things, and so, and neither any of the streamers, and so it's. It's really been the only company really willing to pay. It has been Apple, because it's allows them to differentiate their, their product and they can afford it.

1:13:35 - Leo Laporte
The negative on AV one is it takes about three times longer to encode.

1:13:40 - Alex Lindsay
Three times longer, three times more processor, cpu, more processor. So it's very, because when you want to compress it, really, when you want to get that extra quality, you need more, you need more processor time. It's still coming out real time or it's coming out at whatever speed it's coming out at, but it's, it is, but it's the processor time.

1:14:03 - Leo Laporte
Do you wish they had an AV one encoder in the new chips.

1:14:07 - Alex Lindsay
Well, you wish, they have you know, I wish I had a pony too, but I you know like it's, you know like it's, but it's, you know. The question is how many people are actually generating that? I think eventually having an AV one encoder makes a difference. When you companies like a zoom have, when they start to do AV one for encode and in real time both ends, that becomes really important because that means that you're using a lot less. That means your laptop will last a lot longer through zoom meeting, so on and so forth. So that makes a difference. But for most people aren't streaming, so having that AV one capability is not as important. But you have to remember that. Like, for instance, the stuff you see on Apple TV, like when you buy a video or even when you get it from Disney plus or whatever, then the amount of time it takes to encode that is two or three days, like it is, you know it's. It's not multi-pass, it's like they only do it once.

1:15:00 - Leo Laporte
I mean this is this makes sense. You do it once and then you play it back a million times.

1:15:05 - Alex Lindsay
Well, they do it a hundred sometimes, like because they're the number of the number of times they have to build it out is way different, but the point is is that it is there is like it's not just real time encoding and all these aren't made equal, and AV one is going to make a huge difference, but eventually we need to see encoders. I bet you in by 2025, will have dedicated AV one encoders on the computers as well as decoders, but right now, all you need is really decoders, because you're watching streaming and that's what they're on and Carl Lucho's in our discord.

1:15:33 - Leo Laporte
He says that zoom is in fact rolling out AV one. They've joined the alliance for open media, so I didn't know.

1:15:40 - Alex Lindsay
I didn't know what I could say yes, well, he is setting.

1:15:43 - Leo Laporte
So it's okay now I can repeat it. There's actually a press release, so it's it's public knowledge now. So thank you, andy, for giving us the. The insight he says this is he says he's excited for what this will do for zoom, iso decoding out AV one to production systems. We'll get the benefit of that here.

And I guess we're gonna have to buy John a bunch of M three max Mac minis when they come out. God, I'm some very happy people behind the camera they're jumping up and down. I want to take another break. We have lots more to talk about. It's a big night. They got a lot done in 30 minutes. It's taken us an hour and 15 to kind of even begin to parse it. But we will continue in just a moment.

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1:18:20 - Alex Lindsay
Oh, that's not, that's a crane, that's a techno crane that is a much more expensive version of a jib Like jib. You know jib, jib, jib like of that size is, you know, like a $20,000 arm. You know it's not a big deal. A techno crane that's like a quarter million, half million dollar techno crane Like that is a expensive, very expensive technical uh arm. It's really cool. That's all I'm saying.

1:18:41 - Leo Laporte
And it looks like it might extend out to be even as high as Apple, the Apple campus.

1:18:46 - Alex Lindsay
It probably doesn't go that far, but it's probably a. It could probably spend, expand out to 40 feet, at least 40 to 50 feet, and it's. It's a um, uh in what you saw. By the way, to go back to the, the jib there. So are the, the, the there's a dolly on the left right.

Well, also notice the teleprompter that. So the, the iPhone is in a teleprompter that he's reading. You know there, right. And then you have these big I. Those are probably airy sources that are there, so there is, and they didn't show it.

1:19:15 - Leo Laporte
But another part of the video shows there's a big softbox above him too. That's not in the shot right now. So they shot this almost day for night. I mean they did. It looks like they did shoot at night, but that. But there's a lot of light, and then they made it darker.

1:19:29 - Alex Lindsay
I would guess, and then the, and then there's a. There's some other stuff there that that on the last one there that is, and that's a softbox with, you know, an egg crate on it to that's kind of directional lighting. Um, what we saw in the last image there was a. Uh, there's also hidden there as a Teradek Ranger that's sitting over like oh, and they made a big deal about that.

1:19:46 - Leo Laporte
Yes, Now that you can record via the USB-C port to an external drive we can well, that's a, that's a most likely.

1:19:53 - Alex Lindsay
It is going out HDMI out of that phone and then it's going, it's getting transmitted to the Teradek Like you can see the Teradek Ranger, you can see the antennas. It might be a bolt, but it's a bolt that has a thing on it, so it's, it's a. It's a lot of gear. That's, that's in there.

1:20:11 - Andy Ihnatko
Do you think that that kind of the this kind of behind the scenes kind of undermines like what they were saying at the very, the very? It was? It was a fun. It was a fun flex I think all of us expected. Of course it wasn't just some dude holding the iPhone with maybe like a $10 LED, but it's like look at this.

1:20:27 - Leo Laporte
What the hell is this gimbal that it's on?

1:20:30 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, yeah, so that. So what that is is that's a, that remote head I'm not sure the brand of that head, but it but what it does is it allows you to change on the X, Y and Z axis so you can roll, so so that's a rolling.

1:20:42 - Leo Laporte
And this is the shot where they pan through the room and there's a guy playing a bass and a woman on the floor with her MacBook and so I think that's why they wanted all these axes right, so they can kind of zoom through that.

1:20:55 - Alex Lindsay
Exactly and so that and it also lets you level it as you turn. And then we think that that is a that the the cases made by Beast Grip. So in the last behind the scenes that they showed they were using a small rig, that's the, the Rodrigo video that they have made by the phone.

So, it feels like they're kind of. They're either it's the filmmaker that makes the decision or it is a or they're spreading the wealth a little bit. But they showed a small rig on the last one, but a beast grip on this one and beast grips or beast grips are really nice.

1:21:26 - Leo Laporte
They brought in a third party to shoot this and the director is Brian Oaks, who's apparently a well-known documentary and he did Jim the James Foley story and living with Lincoln, and they brought in a third party to record it. There's Brian, he's with radical media, but that's, that's typical right For Apple. They don't. They don't use their own in-house. Everybody does. Yeah, I mean, you know this because you're one of the companies that people hire.

1:21:56 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, apple, they have a lot of their own in-house capacity for some of their commercials. They definitely because it allows them to keep it secret and keep it safe, right? So anyway, but I recognize that.

1:22:09 - Leo Laporte
I recognize that AJA box on there. We have a few of those. That's an HDMI decoder, right?

1:22:16 - Alex Lindsay
Or no, right, so it's. It's most likely there. That is a HDMI to SDI, maybe it could be, or fiber they could be converting HDMI. See, I can't quite make out, if you go that looks like a high five. It could be. It could be fiber as well, so they could be converting from HDMI to SDI and then SDI to fiber, so they can see it somewhere else. I can't quite.

1:22:38 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, because they had a bunch of taps, not just that tap on the camera, but for the producers they had big screen taps.

1:22:45 - Alex Lindsay
So Right, they have to be able to see it somewhere, and so that's what they would probably do is send out. There's because now you have the USB-C to HDMI, so you give USB-C to HDMI and then you're. Then you're able and here's the crazy thing is you can go USB-C to a breakout so that you get you get the HDMI out of it, but you also get you go to the drive so you can record to the drive and and I thought it was amazing is to get the full quality out of the out of the phone. Now, like when you turn your phone all the way up, now it goes hey, you need an external drive to even like you to go 4K 60, you need an external drive connected. It's required on the phone to get that frame rate. So it's a really yeah, it's interesting.

1:23:27 - Leo Laporte
So it's Apple's John Carr, a pro workflow video specialist who worked on Top Gun, maverick and Terminator Dark Fate, and Jeff Wozniak I wonder if he's related who worked on Transformers, avatar and Iron man 2, consulted. It must have been fun to work on that team. To get all of this attention they they apparently use the Black Magic Camera app and the tentacle sync.

1:23:55 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, yeah. So the tentacle, sync, is the getting the time code in. So it's, it's being able to add the time code to the system so that you can sync all those bits and pieces up the there's a hard drive. Look at that, yeah, right now the Black Magic Camera app is the state of the art as far as how do you squeeze the most out of the phone. You have all the control. That's what we're seeing there, right there.

So the one thing that I have to admit. Even I looked at it and was like what, the what, like everything was kind of like so this is this actually looks like. So the fact that he was using the, so they were using the follow focus here. That's the, that's what he see, that that wheel is a follow focus and he's turning it. If you, if you just kind of go through that a little bit, he's turning it and it's changing the focus we don't have.

1:24:41 - Leo Laporte
We can't play the video. Apple tick a stone.

1:24:44 - Alex Lindsay
So, anyway, when you watch that in the behind the scenes, he's turning that and it's changing the focus on the phone. So he's using a follow focus on the phone and even for, even, for, you know, and I think, I think what's happening there is that the Black Magic app may be actually able to see the Black Magic follow focus because there's a Black Magic piece of hardware. I can't quite make out that control. But that was the one moment. The rest of this was all like, yeah, I understand, I understand. And then when they showed the follow focus, I was like what, the what, like, what, what is going on there? And so they're actually doing that. That's a major flex, in my opinion, and that does look like, I mean.

1:25:23 - Leo Laporte
This is so subtle.

1:25:24 - Alex Lindsay
None of none of us noticed that, but of course somebody who's I mean the rest of it was like you're putting a camera, like the rest of it, I was kind of like you're putting a camera on a GIP, I mean on a Technocrane, and you've got a head and you've got a thing, and those are all things we know. The idea that you could use the follow focus on the phone was like really like whoa, you know, like I was that kind of blew me, blew me away.

1:25:46 - Leo Laporte
The other flex was. They shot this at night and it's dark and typically a phone is not good in low light.

1:25:53 - Alex Lindsay
I wondered whether the whole reason they shot it at night was specifically to show off, to show off the fact that they're show, they're able to shoot in the dark. You know, I think that, although again.

1:26:04 - Leo Laporte
I suspect I mean this shot you can see it's much lighter. I suspect they kind of shot day for night for a lot of this that you know you, you shoot it much brighter. They were using I don't know, it's so dark, I don't even know what I'm seeing here, but they so I don't know how bright it was, we will, we will never know. They could easily have shot it with a full bright and then just dimmed it, right. I mean you want to get as much light as possible.

1:26:33 - Alex Lindsay
I mean I think that they were oh, and, by the way, the I did finally identify that that is the, the head that they're using, the big one with the rotating head. There is a, is an M7, ebo or EV, evo. That's made by Chapman and that's the. That, that head there I finally saw like a little thing on it. I was like, oh, I know what that is, that's what it looks like Chapman, so anyway, so so MV, mv7 EVO is what they're using there, the. I think that they a lot of it. They were showing off that they could shoot. Now they again. The subjects were lit extremely well, you saw, yeah.

1:27:08 - Leo Laporte
Let's show some more images. We have, we, we, we still have a bunch of images out there. Look at all that light. That is a lot of light.

1:27:14 - Andy Ihnatko
That's not dark it's more light than I have in this studio right now. That's why. That's why I wanted to ask you, alex, is this is this mostly a demonstration of ProRes, rather than the hardware basically saying that under the ideal circumstances, it can dump, it can dump video to an external device? That is this professional quality I mean it's not.

1:27:35 - Leo Laporte
It doesn't seem like the demonstration of the lenses. Well, something about the sensor and lenses.

1:27:40 - Alex Lindsay
Well, yeah, I'll agree with Andy to some degree that basically what you're showing there is that, but what they really are flexing is you can use this for production and now we'll you make the next?

We'll Christopher Nolan take this on? Probably not, you know, like he's not so, but it is, for I mean, I think that there is a huge market for Apple to really own and they do own right now the creator market when it comes to people, you know, shooting a lot of these things, and so I mean, apple's Number one competitor right now is Sony, right, like the Sony cameras. And so, when it comes to creators, and so the thing is, is them showing how far they can push this and the fact that you can shoot, log and the and there's a lot of cameras out there for creators that you can't shoot, log on, you know, and so they also mentioned aces in the press release, uh, saying they're the only smartphone to support the academy color in coding and that's a not a minor thing and it takes an enormous amount of work to become, you know, to get into that aces, um, you know system and so, uh, that's for color, right, yeah, and here you can see that that's the black magic app.

That's there. That's, you know, um, and the interesting about the black magic app is it really runs a lot like the black magic camera. So you're really not for someone who's using black magic already, it's not a huge, um, you know, change in hold.

1:28:55 - Leo Laporte
I like the Thunderbolt 4 cable they're showing attached to that.

1:29:02 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, I think that's a little uh L converter there. For that, thanks to Anthony.

1:29:07 - Leo Laporte
Nielsen, who took all of these stills out, knowing we could not show the video. We were able to do this. There's a nice little dolly shot.

1:29:15 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, and that's a Chapman, I think A Chapman dolly, which is a really, you know, high quality dolly, um, and what I think that they're. They're from an aspirational perspective. That's Brian Oaks, by the way, the director Right, and then this is your full. This is a DaVinci resolve which, by the way, a lot of Final Cut folks noticed that they said edited on a Mac, they did not say edited in Final Cut, um, and that was, I think this is very interesting Apple is giving equal pride of place to Premier and DaVinci, uh as it's like they're saying okay, use whatever you want, we don't care anymore.

Well, there's a lot of love for. Third, I think Apple needs to spread it out a little bit and I think that you know the there's a lot of resolve love here. There's also some Cinema 4D stuff that we saw. What is he using?

1:29:55 - Leo Laporte
an iPad to control that. What is going on there?

1:29:58 - Alex Lindsay
That's a. That's a Mac MacBook Pro. It looks black. It's a MacBook Pro. Yeah, Um, it might be a black one, a dark gray one or whatever, but and I don't know how much you would actually I mean, it's a great photo I don't think that they would actually do any work with the last one that you saw, with all the controllers. That's more what you would use when you were putting this together.

1:30:19 - Jason Snell
Come and sit down. Yeah, he's looking for reference. For reference, I'm going to look here and see where that thing is on my actual thing. That's over there, yeah.

1:30:27 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, exactly yeah.

1:30:29 - Andy Ihnatko
See, that's just what. That's just what bothers me about this. I don't I'm not saying it's not impressive, but I'm saying that look at all of the other stuff they added to that $1,200 camera to make it. This is why I think it's more. It's more impressive to say that here's the output that this thing can generate, that even that under the best can, that, if that this is what it's capable of, you will not have the resources to do a shoot of this level. However, you know that the limitations of the video that this thing can record for your project, be it a creator content thing, or whether you're actually just using, even using this as a B camera on like an indie shoot this is the best that you can get, and the best is not limited by what you'll be able to do with this camera.

1:31:09 - Jason Snell
Right. The idea here is that you could throw all this money at it but still have an iPhone at the center of it and it'll look great. And now you don't have that money, but it does Like the iPhone is not going to be your problem. I think it's kind of the message here Right, it is now as capable as I mean. I know it's not as capable as some other hardware, but it's like. It's basically as capable as you want it because we even used it. It's a great. It's great marketing right, because in the end, nobody's I mean a very small number of people are going to use it for this. But it does send the message to other people that if you buy an iPhone Pro, like, yeah, that camera is that good.

1:31:42 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, Like the message. Like I feel as though the message is not to people who are considering buying like an $18,000 red camera, is to people who are, I think, with Alex Luthor earlier, people who are considering buying a $2,200 Sony Sony Alpha.

1:31:55 - Alex Lindsay
Well, and it also means that you're. You end up with a lot of film people buying iPhone 15 Max's because they know that they can do pickup shots with it, like they're like, well, I can, you know I can intercut this with other things if I wanted to. Yeah, I mean, we have to remember that the creator which that came out was all shot on an FX3. Like that's, like you know, and the reason that that Gareth Edwards did that was he said you know he could put it on an R. You know a handheld like a. You know an R2, an R3, you know DJI, and so these are, you know, being able to shoot lightweight. You can see how people might use this for some of the scenes you know, because they can go to places like for it.

1:32:33 - Leo Laporte
In my day, it used to matter that you would want to use the same make of camera for all of the shots, because it's very hard to match. Otherwise Does that matter anymore. And thanks to ACES, well, the.

1:32:42 - Alex Lindsay
ACES is a big piece of getting those all in the same in the same ballpark. Okay, they're still all going to have slightly different. Now, intercutting between two cameras in the same scene complicated, yeah, but it's not unusual to change camera systems when you are going to a different scene.

1:32:58 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, If you went from a tight shot of Tim Cook to a drone shot. It's okay if those are different cameras or or or, by the way, I want to go before we go too much further. Correct myself that was not Brian Oaks, that was Stefan Sonnenfield, who is the CEO of Company Three, and I'm presuming Company Three was the production company.

1:33:16 - Andy Ihnatko
Sonnenfield. Is that any any relationship to the the other right, barry Brian Sonnenfield, barry.

1:33:21 - Alex Lindsay
No, no, actually Um the uh, but you know like we can't see anything's intercut, you know. You know what the funny thing about Nepo-Bady maybe is that 100 years ago everyone was in Nepo-Bady.

1:33:30 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, that's right.

1:33:31 - Alex Lindsay
Whatever they were doing whatever your parents did. So, anyway.

So the so anyway, but the um, uh, the, the thing that that you know, when you see that it does change the flavor, you can get close, like if you watch the Matrix, the fight scene that's in the you know, I know Kung Fu kind of fight scene. They're jumping from high speed cameras to regular cameras and you can totally see the flavor changes. Yeah, you can change the flavor of the blacks and everything else, and so those things happen all the time in filmmaking. But the um, but I think you can see how you might be able to do some pickups. And, more importantly, it is showing creators, which is a much larger piece of that pyramid.

Hey, you can shoot something really high. You're only limited by the hardware you're willing to put around it, but you can shoot. You can keep scaling with this product up to something that is, uh, you know, pretty amazing. So it's. I think that most of us who saw that the, I felt like they buried the lead, like we're like, hey, that's great that you and dude did this. But like, if you, if you looked at Twitter, like everyone was like, yeah, the new computers are fine, but they shot it on an iPhone. Like, got a guy.

1:34:33 - Leo Laporte
Everyone was like what you know, and so so I think that was the big thing it was. It looks like this is an ethernet connection, so it probably is SDI uh in the still I have uh here Ethernet. Isn't that ethernet? That's not fiber. Looks like, yeah, that's an ethernet connection.

1:34:52 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, but I don't know what that, that ethernet connection. Who knows what it's connected to NAS.

1:34:56 - Leo Laporte
Is it a? What's a double dragon? Is that? Uh, actually don't know. Maybe that's the name of the shot, I don't know.

1:35:02 - Alex Lindsay
It's probably the name of the kit that they built there. Oh, okay, Um, but this is, yeah, video ingest. So they're, they're probably, but they could be just pulling all those drives so that ethernet could be going to a NAS, Right that is.

1:35:14 - Speaker 2
That is pulling the that's pulling all the drives from that, so that might be what's happening there, but it's yeah, it's a lot of data either way.

1:35:21 - Alex Lindsay
Um, but I do think that it's, you know, like, I think, when we look back at like movies like tangerine, you know, is, uh, you know, that was the first movie that was made there and a lot of us saw it coming. I mean, I think that, if I think, I reposted my Mac break where I did a, the 2g, the 3g s put it. I put it back on YouTube, on my, on my channel. But, like we were excited about that 15 years ago, this is, this is the camera that, this is the, this is the iPhone we all thought would happen in 2015.

1:35:47 - Leo Laporte
Looks like they're looping audio here. Is this? Is this a looping audio? Uh, they could be. I don't know what's going on there.

1:35:56 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, I mean, they could definitely, they definitely could be looping audio there. Yeah, um, uh to to get it just right. Right, it's very interesting, which is often ADR is a pretty common, uh, common thing to do, cause you have a lot of stuff going on in the, in the scene, when you're shooting it.

1:36:13 - Leo Laporte
So replacing it again, right, not, that would be pretty cool, that's the Apple VP hardware Uh, is a Katie Bergeron, um, and I think she's in both of those shots, so it must be looping. I don't know what's going on there. It looks like it.

1:36:28 - Alex Lindsay
Cause I think she has headset headset on the second one. Yeah, yeah. Exactly so um, it does, and they're not.

1:36:34 - Leo Laporte
The mic is not right in front of her, so they're trying to make it sound right Like she's in a room.

1:36:39 - Alex Lindsay
Right, you're trying to get the same same, the same residents that you had before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:36:44 - Leo Laporte
Anyway, fun to watch. It's uh, it's in the Apple newsroom. If you want to look at applecom slash newsroom you can watch the entire and you know I don't have they ever done a behind the scenes before? It's nice to see a behind the scenes of how they do these.

1:36:56 - Alex Lindsay
They're starting to integrate them. So, like the Rodrigo movie actually the Rodrigo video was actually the commercial is made with the iPhone. Yeah, it's just showing you behind the scenes. Yeah, I love that. I think I think Apple could go a lot further.

1:37:07 - Leo Laporte
I mean this there's a steady cam. Look at this. Here's a steady cam with an iPhone on it.

1:37:13 - Alex Lindsay
It's a, it's a, that's a DJI. I mean it's not exactly a steady cam, but it's a. It's a gimbal, it's a, it's a gimbal head. Yeah, because the steady cam. That is actually super hard to do on a steady cam because there's not enough weight so you need to balance the weight.

1:37:27 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, and steady cam operators have all these counterweights sticking off of them.

1:37:32 - Alex Lindsay
I got my brother I had it my brother's a steady cam operator and he we put a little black magic production studio. You know like the little tiny one fell over in his face. It was so hard for him to balance that camera. Like it was just he was like oh my gosh, we have to find a bigger camera, Like it's too small.

1:37:47 - Andy Ihnatko
It's too tiny. The phone would be even. You need the accessory Harder yeah.

1:37:51 - Leo Laporte
Do you think they use DJI drones? They must have huh.

1:37:54 - Alex Lindsay
They did Well they. I saw a DJI, the R2 was in one of the shots, so I don't. They may have used the drone for that. It won't be the drones that you think of.

1:38:02 - Leo Laporte
They're going to the deep they have because DJI has their own cameras, so there are other drones. Yeah, it looks like a pretty big gas. There it is.

1:38:09 - Alex Lindsay
That's a big right there. Yeah, that's the R2 Ronin. I think I was at the. Is that the drone? I think that's not. I think that's a, just a. That's a.

1:38:17 - Leo Laporte
I think they showed it taking off, didn't they? Or maybe I'm wrong.

1:38:19 - Alex Lindsay
I don't think. I don't think that one is. Cause that's a Ronin head, but but the? Yeah, I didn't see any of the drones taking off, but DJI makes a larger drones that they probably use for this so that they could cause. What they're, those bigger ones are designed to do is put on custom cameras. You know like you know. So they're, they're bigger, they're like octacopters.

1:38:37 - Leo Laporte
In a way, this is even bigger flexed. It's not just that they're doing it with the iPhone, but that they're letting you see how they do it.

1:38:44 - Alex Lindsay
It's pretty. They could produce a two hour video about how they shot that with all the behind the scenes and, I think, apple should.

1:38:50 - Leo Laporte
I think, they should.

1:38:51 - Alex Lindsay
They should teach people how to like. Here is how you do production with a phone.

1:38:55 - Leo Laporte
It's not just about boasting, it's to show you how you do it.

1:38:58 - Alex Lindsay
That's right. So I think that they hopefully they'll put more out, but when they do these, I really would love to see them do much bigger. It's really great yeah.

1:39:08 - Andy Ihnatko
I just, I just like to imagine that part part of the PA, whether there's probably a whole PA on the job on the set whose entire job is to make sure the phone there is actually a phone at the end of that enormous boom. That's like wait, wait, wait. You did all those moves and the phone wasn't actually there. No, couldn't see it.

1:39:26 - Leo Laporte
Ah, we are gonna see we got there's other Apple news. I don't really care about it, but there's other Apple news. We got 17.1 since we met last, which fixed a bug a long standing bug in a privacy bug with the IP address, and added some new features. 17.2 is gonna add the journal and some new beta stickers which you didn't like so much. You give it a thumbs down, jason.

1:39:55 - Jason Snell
No, it stinks. This is one of those things where they announced it. It stinks. Wwdc, they said in 17, this is coming, and the idea here is that for years they've had those six tap back icons and every other messaging system in existence has let people react to messages with emoji and Apple's like yeah, six tap backs is enough. And finally they're like all right, fine, but what they didn't do is give you emoji.

They gave you stickers and said you can make an emoji a sticker, and then they built it using I would say like it seems like the minimum effort required to do this feature, where, if you do the double tap feature, you don't get to see it. You have to tap and hold and then tap on sticker and then it's using a different sticker interface. That's not the usual sticker interface or not the usual emoji interface. You can't search for an emoji, you have to find it and when you send it, it sends it as a sticker and places it over the bubble. You're reacting to obscuring the text. So it feels very strongly like there was an internal debate at Apple and somebody finally just ordered the group responsible to do this feature and they responded by saying fine, I'll give you your stupid feature and it is done in. It is just terrible.

1:41:15 - Leo Laporte
It is such a bad job. Compliance version of emoji stickers.

1:41:20 - Jason Snell
And so, like the short, how do they fix this? It's just a first beta, so they've got a little time, and if I was begging them to do something, first off, when you double tap to do a tap back, you should have the option to do a sticker right there and you don't. Second, they should make sure that the sticker doesn't cover the text that you're responding to, so that people can't read the text. That's really bad. And then in the long run, you should probably show recent stickers that you sent in the tap back interface so you can get to them conveniently. And really what it should be is that those emoji or sticker reactions should appear like the tap back offset. Very nicely, because that is a well-designed interface. It just only has six things that you can use to express your feelings and guess what? There are lots of emojis. There are other feelings.

People have learned and I've heard from you. You're like well, why don't you just respond with it? And it's like have you used Slack or Discord or Signal? Even Like everybody lets you react with an emoji. It's a fun feature, people like it, and this feels like a feature that was implemented by people who hate it. They really like tap backs. They don't ever want to do anything but tap backs and so, fine, here's your stupid stickers. And it's actually shocking how bad it is. And it feels like a feature from people who don't care and don't like it and don't want people to use it, and I hope they fix it. I hope that the criticism that they've gotten from a few of us might shake something up inside, because it's just, it's bad. And this was the feature that I was maybe most excited about in Iowa 17. I was like, finally, emoji, tap backs. It's like, nope, it's stickers. And I'm like, okay, well, that might still be okay. Nope, it's not. It's bad in multiple ways.

1:43:03 - Leo Laporte
So, hey, 17.2 also brings the announced, but not long-awaited, journal app to iOS, and it looks pretty simple, basic right, what? I do like though it's got an API which means day one which is the better choice will have all the capabilities of the Apple Journal app right, right.

1:43:27 - Jason Snell
So, first off, it's great that Apple, like Apple, makes things for the 90% of people who've never used a journal before. Right, they're not trying to kill day one or anybody else. They're trying to maybe even be a gateway to something like day one, but something that has got basic features. But yeah, the way they built it is so good, because we have talked about a lot on this show, apple's tendency to launch a thing and it only works with Apple stuff right, like, and you're like hey, wait a second, apple, play fair. This is a great example of them playing fair.

They built this journal app, but the way that it works, it's got suggestions based on things that are going on on your iPhone music, you've listened to people, you're hanging out with Phone calls, you've made photos, you've taken. All of that is in this activity API. You have to turn it on and then when you add it to the app, it asks you. It like slides up a sheet, basically, and lets you pick what activity you want to add to the journal. The journal app doesn't see any of the activities that are suggested. Only when you choose to add it, like adding a photo somewhere, does that app get it.

And because they built it that way. Not only does Apple's app not see it, third parties can use this feature, and it's the same thing. It's private until you choose to share it with a specific app and, using some of the existing APIs, apps can contribute to the activities as well. So if you're like you're using call kit to do a phone call on Skype or something, it will show up as in your list of calls that you've made. So I think they're playing fair with this app in a way that maybe we haven't seen in a while, and I think it's a good sign.

1:45:01 - Leo Laporte
The way they pitched it was turns out. It's good for your mental health If you journal and you could keep track of how you feel on any given day, and we're gonna make a simple way to do that. I just love it that there's an API. I didn't realize there was an API in as well as an API out, so that's really cool.

1:45:16 - Jason Snell
Well, it's using existing APIs and I'm skeptical, like I don't think your Spotify music is gonna track and it really should right, like anybody. But like call kits and examples. So some of these, like, if you use these generic kind of like kit interfaces that they use, all of that rolls in, but I'm not 100% sure that, like everything is rolling in there.

1:45:37 - Leo Laporte
Okay, anything else before we take our final break that is worth mentioning. I mean, we're excited. Did you, alex? Did you order a new Mac book or a new iMac?

1:45:50 - Alex Lindsay
No, I have to admit I probably would, but I'm saving money for the Vision Pro.

1:45:55 - Jason Snell
I'm definitely getting one, and I was like, oh, I gotta save my ducats.

1:46:00 - Alex Lindsay
And so I'm putting the money away because I have a feeling that it's not gonna be 3,500 when I'm done with it. Like I'm feeling that I'm gonna get like a couple extra things and before I know it it'll be five grand. And so I'm kind of holding off and I don't really need a new laptop, like I still I have an old one. I haven't Intel. Apple hasn't broken the wall yet. I just only I have to charge it every time I'm like going to LA or going to something. I just never use the laptop. So I don't really I'm not, I don't need it. I've got lots of Mac, mac minis.

1:46:28 - Leo Laporte
So I'm good. How about you, Andy? I'm figuring you probably didn't order a Space Black MacBook Max.

1:46:36 - Andy Ihnatko
No, but now it's got me thinking oh, now I can't buy a Mac mini until they get the M3.

1:46:42 - Leo Laporte
Oh see, that's a disadvantage.

1:46:44 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, I've had this money like taped to the underside of my desk, like figuratively speaking, for five years now, and every four months there's another reason for me not to pull the trigger on it. But right now it's like oh, I think I want a really good M3, mac mini. At this point, that would be. That would satisfy my hunger extremely well.

1:47:01 - Leo Laporte
Mr Snell, did you bring anything back from New York other than banana chips? No, nothing nothing.

1:47:07 - Jason Snell
No, loner, I'm a MacBook. No, they didn't give us anything, which is good, because then you have to find a way to get it back home and an iMac is not going to fit in the overhead Right.

1:47:16 - Andy Ihnatko
So Can I ask a semi-serious question what were the snacks like at the condo? Like what kind of a minute I've been to? I've been to, I've been to briefings where, like, they just take a hotel suite, like for a couple of days, but like this is, this is, this is I assume I was at, like the Apple Lone condo, like I'm kind of wondering what the amenities are like when they have an event there.

1:47:37 - Jason Snell
Honestly, I was offered like coffee or tea or something, but I had already had my breakfast so I didn't even look at the table. Sorry, I shirked, I shirked.

1:47:45 - Leo Laporte
You know you got. You had one job. I know I know I, unlike you, fellas did in fact just spend a ridiculous amount of money because I care about you, our audience to get a space black MacBook Pro with a max in it. We will get it next Tuesday. So that's one of the nice things about this. They are shipping them right away. You could order immediately after the event and they're shipping right away. And I got 64 gigs of RAM and I got, cause Lisa has an M2 max with 64 gigs of RAM and I have to benchmark. That's it. I have to benchmark them. Anyway, we'll have that, probably not for the show next Tuesday, but if I do, I'll whip it out and we will do. We'll run some numbers on this thing, because I think it's really gonna. You know, honestly, even with 11 times of performance 90% of what you do the computer's faster than you anyway. Yeah.

1:48:54 - Andy Ihnatko
For a couple of decades now. Basically, the speed performance boost means that, wow, now it's doing a whole bunch of other things waiting. Basically, now, when it flashes the cursor away from you type the next key, it's actually doing a whole lot more of nothing.

1:49:09 - Leo Laporte
And Alex is gonna yell at me cause he said you should. He said, Leah, why would you get the 14? Well, cause I want it to be portable. I would like to have. But so basically, I have a rocket ship in my pocket, is the idea, or in my head there's enough room in here.

1:49:24 - Alex Lindsay
You're gonna work on it Unless you're very small hands. It's just so tiny, it's like tiny little. I like a smaller, I like a smaller. I just find, I think, that part of the reason that I don't need a new laptop is because I have a 14. Because I just like, I just don't like, hate it.

1:49:40 - Leo Laporte
This is a kind of bike that I need it.

1:49:44 - Alex Lindsay
I'm like, oh, like.

1:49:45 - Andy Ihnatko
I'm actually curious about how.

1:49:46 - Leo Laporte
Windows runs on and on parallels, for instance, especially since Windows on arm is really held back by the current generation Qualcomm chips. But here comes NVIDIA and AMD and Qualcomm with better desktop class arm processors Be very interesting. Right now, the best processing for Windows on arm is an Apple Silicon chip, and I suspect it's gonna be that way for some time to come. So that'll be another thing I'll try. And then, okay, Baldur's Gate. You know gotta play Baldur's Gate 3. They showed it.

1:50:23 - Andy Ihnatko
Yeah, that's what made it interesting that they updated the 24 inch iMac Cause now. Okay, now I get that, the idea that this could be like a gaming machine for the kids, like in the rec room.

1:50:36 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, if the games come out for it. But I think they're really making a strong argument for the GPU on this thing. All right, I think we've talked enough. Let's take a break and come back, and you still have a job to do. My friends, the picks of the week are coming up next as we continue with MacBreak Weekly.

But first a word from ZipRecruiter. We love these guys because I'll tell you what and people move on when you have an opening at your work or maybe you want to hire to expand. It's hard, it's really hard. ZipRecruiter makes it easy. There are a lot of people we thank for making this show happen. For instance, anthony Nielsen. Thank you for all those stills from the Apple video. Thanks to John Ashley. He's running the board, then edits the show, produces the show. Jammer B, who keeps the studio running. You know these people are Twit. Your employees are the company. It takes a team of people to make this show work. It takes a solid team to make any business successful. So if you're hiring, it's important you hire the best people. How you do it? Well, this is how we do it ZipRecruiter. Right now you could try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com/macbreak. You'll be so glad you did.

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That's ziprecruiter.com/M-A-C-B-R-E-A-K. ZipRecruiter. We love it and I think you will too. So give it a try. ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. We thank him so much for supporting MacBreak Weekly. Mr Jason Snell, did you have a pick this?

1:53:15 - Jason Snell
week I do believe it or not, I managed to figure one out. I'm gonna pick the Ufi C120 camera, which I bought a couple of, and it's about $40 on the Amazon. It's cheap. It's cheap. I got it for 28 or something like the go on sale. It's a 2K indoor webcam, so powered, you can use their service but it's not a webcam, it's a security camera. Sorry, it's a security camera. Yes it's a home live camera. We used to call all cameras on the internet webcams by the way, because that's webcam.

But you're right, home security camera does up to 2K resolution. The things I like about it one, it's got an SD card slot so you can have it record just to the SD card if you want to. Two, it'll work with your home like home server, so it'll just write to your home server's hard drive if you want, which is very convenient because then you're not paying a cloud fee and you've got it locally and you've got as much as you want. You can use Ufi's service if you want to, but they support HomeKit secure videos. So if you're an iCloud plus subscriber, if you've got the Apple One bundle, you have a certain number of cameras I forget what the exact number is That'll do 24, seven recording encrypted to Apple's servers so that only you can see it, and you might trust Apple maybe better for that than Ufi and you may also trust Apple and have already paid for this feature that you're not using and so like to get for, like I said, I found it on sale for like less than 30 bucks a an HD home security camera to watch my dog when we leave her to see what she's doing, which is some bad stuff, let me tell you.

She jumped up on the dining room table. Who knew? Now I know. So anyway, yeah, like if you're looking for an indoor camera to put somewhere. I didn't do a comprehensive comparison, but I did find this camera and it's cheap and it works with HomeKit secure video, which for me is super convenient, because then I'm not paying for another subscription and it's already part of my Apple One, but I could also save it to my server at home or just use it on an SD card. Very nice.

1:55:23 - Leo Laporte
Very nice EUFY. This is the anchor brand's cameras. Yeah, yeah.

1:55:30 - Jason Snell
And somebody mentioned to me, when I mentioned that I had these, that they had like a thing where they weren't encrypting everything. They said they were and they did a software update and they are now. But my response to that person was basically, yes, but HomeKit secure video is. Homekit secure video. You flip it over and then you're not using their stuff anymore at all. You're just connecting to Apple and HomeKit.

1:55:53 - Leo Laporte
It's two good things, because yes, it's HomeKit and yes, eufy has over the air updates and is paying enough attention to fix it when there's a problem. So I appreciate that on both and boy the price is right.

1:56:08 - Jason Snell
Yeah, I didn't believe it when I saw it. I'm like, okay, I'll buy two. Why not buy two?

1:56:11 - Leo Laporte
You know, I think you can think wise for really putting the screws to all of these companies and saying you know you really can do it a lot less. Eufycom, the indoor cam C120. Andy and Ako, your pick of the week.

1:56:26 - Andy Ihnatko
I've been kind of, as you might have told me, being able to tell by my intellectual level, my energy level and my voice I've been sick for the past two or three days, so I just not the big one. It's just, you know, a kid getting sitting behind me on a commuter rail train was coughing a lot and I caught it. So I don't have a software or hardware, but I did. So it's a good chance to talk about A. It's a great pumpkin. Charlie Brown on Apple TV Plus. Yes, they're horrible. Yes, they're fascist. Yes, they're committing crime against our cultural heritage by taking this beloved Coliseum classic and putting it behind a merciless, late-stage capitalistic paywall. However, some of us do subscribe to Apple TV Plus and so therefore, right what may as well watch it, as on Alex Lindsay approved streaming quality and on 5K and all that sort of stuff.

The other thing is that you've heard me recommend Joyce T Donato's master opera master classes before. She is probably one of my five favorite like performers at opera today, but one of the things she is amazingly talented at is doing these like one-on-one master classes. She does them like every year at Carnegie Hall, while she's usually booked at the Metropolitan Opera, like in October. So when her run ends, she does like two or three days of these master classes with four or five different students. Each day's worth of video lasts about two hours and it's an amazing thing to have like in the background while you're working. And I guarantee you that at least two or three or four times an hour, something you'll hear will like captivate you, because it starts off with they sing an aria that you probably never heard before. This. Oh my God, one of the most beautiful things you ever heard. And, like my God, this beautiful is perfect. And she's not tearing people down and saying that's not how you do things. This is not how we do things in the opera. It's more like walking them through, not just the technical stuff, but also the emotional stuff and the performance stuff of here's why this composer put this note right here and why you really have to stop here and give it that kind of attention.

So if you've not, people often ask me like hey, I want to get it opera, how do I do it? It's not really go out and see an opera, although that's really great. I think that if you watch a couple of these master classes, you will start to understand exactly how beautiful the music is and exactly how difficult it is and how much work goes into not just the technical stuff of somehow making a human voice produce these noises, but also all the thought that goes into every single note and every single measure. It really is one of the most creatively inspiring things as a writer like. There are times where I'm like I don't have it today or I don't want to do it today, or I'm just bored with my work. Oftentimes I'll spool up one of her master classes from this year, previous years, and it just gets into.

You know what? Creativity is never a solved problem. You did it great this time last week. That doesn't mean that great. All to do is repeat that every single time. Nope, every single time you have to solve if you should solve the problem again, or else why are you trying to be a creative person? So it's just really really great stuff. So high recommendation.

1:59:20 - Leo Laporte
So yeah, I mean, is it true that you want to sing a baritone at the Metropolitan Opera next year? Is this not for people who want to become opera singers? No, no, no, it's. I guess it's not well, yeah.

1:59:32 - Andy Ihnatko
Well, the master classes are like students from like people who are 20 years old and still like in their undergrad training to people who have been working like internationally for like a bunch of years now, and it's a competitive thing. That's not old. Although I can't imagine exactly how badly things would be going at the Metropolitan Opera that they would actually let me make noises other than applause and random hooting from the audience, although if they were to slip that up, then, yes, I would definitely like if they left a side door unlocked. Yes, I would definitely take advantage of that opportunity.

2:00:08 - Leo Laporte
Could you? I think you have a very nice voice.

2:00:13 - Andy Ihnatko
Oh, my God, can I just say that you sing in the shower and you think that you know what this one. So I sing the Pirate King, like a bunch of Gilbert and Sullivan, and I think that you know what. I'm pretty good at these two or three songs. But then you say okay. By the way, this is a 4,000 seat theater. There is no microphone, there is no amplification.

2:00:31 - Leo Laporte
They don't do any amplification even today?

2:00:34 - Andy Ihnatko
None, wow, not on any opera stage, really. Like. The only time you see like someone have a microphone is when they're streaming live in HD, and even then that's not being amplified for the live performance, it's just being for the recording. So you imagine that, and not only are they filling a 4,000 seat auditorium, they're singing above an orchestra. Okay, that's also like they're outnumbered like 40 to one by this orchestra, and still they have to make every single note clean, perfect and precise, to even people like me in the $40 cheap seats way, way, way, way up top.

2:01:09 - Leo Laporte
I'm going away. You know, broadway. Of course they have microphones hidden under their hair and they have amplification. But an opera was originally designed for an unamplified 19th century theaters, but I'm surprised they're still not doing any amplification. Yeah, this is why. This is why, like these, it takes.

2:01:31 - Andy Ihnatko
I will stop this rant. But, like one of the things that I love, opera, for the only reasons that matter, is the most beautiful, the most beautiful music and it provokes like an emotional response in me that no other form, like routinely, can do. But I'm blown away by the fact that if you do 10 years worth of study okay, they typically start at 16, 17, 18,. They study for 10 years at their own expense, they travel for competitions, all this sort of stuff. At the end of the 10 years you are kind of technically, you are technically capable of singing this song, these, these, these, these roles. However, now you probably have to go for another 10 years just to learn how to actually perform it. Like, okay, great, you can hit these notes, you it's, you're on key and on tempo, you are singing it very, very pretty.

But and this is something that Joyce Inonato says a lot like during these master casts it's not enough to just sing it pretty, you have to be like, you have to be, you have to be creating something every single time. You have to be understanding what this character is doing in this moment, why they're singing this, why the composer decided to put this, these notes, right here at this time and what the emotional intention of this thing is. They're times where like again, I'm about to go off for another hour along tangent, but I just, I just really, really enjoy how much work goes into it. There's nothing, there's nothing wrong with the, the much more work that people in musical theater and Broadway put into it. That's also an amazing amount of work that I'm incapable of doing.

But when you one of the benefits of opera is that when you hear, when you hear when Joyce Inonato she just completed her run in in Dead man Walking, and it's not that she gets booked for this one performance she learns that she does the blocking, she sings, that she moves on. This is the fourth or fifth time she's sung this role in 10 years. She debuted this role in New York at a different opera. And so you have these performers who spend 10 years thinking about and working on these roles and by the time they hit that stage they're not making anything up, so to speak. They are really in the moment. They're not just simply, they're really, really. So you sing the residue of a lot of work and a lot of thought and a lot of artists and a lot of artistry and a lot of creativity and it really comes across.

2:03:44 - Leo Laporte
Now you've inspired me, can I wear this outfit to the opera?

2:03:49 - Andy Ihnatko
You know what? There is no dress code. I.

2:03:52 - Alex Lindsay
I, I test, but in your case they might Exactly, they might they might, they might institute one.

2:03:57 - Andy Ihnatko
I, I, actually, I actually like two. Two seasons ago I happened to be like in New York and I was had tickets to see another one of my favorite sopranos, like, and it was like Halloween weekend, and so I did attend in a Boba Fett costume.

2:04:10 - Leo Laporte
However, I remember that very well, if I have a step, if I've established that that was a nice costume, though I mean it was fairly dressy, it was it was.

2:04:20 - Andy Ihnatko
I paid $140 for these nice tickets. I didn't want to be thrown out Just a version of a Boba Fett costume. It was a subtle, very credible Boba Fett Exactly. I'm very proud of it. It was a very considered costume. But, yes, but again, I I've. I've seen people in like baggy shorts and flip flops and again they're like your money, your money is good here, sir, thank you for thank you for supporting the opera. It's you will. They will be keeping you far away from the dress circle crowd. There are people who are spending the $400 who are in this and the huge, huge gowns and huge, amazing Bianca, bianca Lago, or whatever good stuff. But yeah, nope, there's, there's no dress code. They might, they might ask, sir, to remove the enormous hat, unless you're sitting in the back row, which I think is not.

2:05:03 - Leo Laporte
You do, you do wear your big hat, don't you? But you sit, you put it on your lap during the performance.

2:05:08 - Andy Ihnatko
Well, it's a special opera version of that hat where collapses down and folds under the seat.

2:05:13 - Leo Laporte
Oh, they actually call those top hats opera hats. For that reason Exactly.

2:05:18 - Andy Ihnatko
That actually that well, there was a time when everyone wore those hats and again they had the col. They invented the collapsible opera hat specifically so that, like you, could do something with it and stuff All your, all your, I think, there. I always wanted one of those, one of the many technological contributions that opera has. Opera has made to science and industry over the past.

2:05:35 - Leo Laporte
My college roommate, Bill Keen, had a collapsible top hat, an opera hat, and he loved going on his wrist and it would oh fuck, it would pop out it is pretty cool.

2:05:47 - Andy Ihnatko
It's pretty cool.

2:05:48 - Leo Laporte
I would own one in a minute. I don't think he ever went to the opera in it, but he owned it and that's the pity, that's the main thing. Alex Lindsey, your pick of the week.

2:05:58 - Alex Lindsay
I have this little thing that kind of looks like a pill here and this is a. So what it has here is it's got ethernet. It's got ethernet on one side and USB-C on the other, and the reason that this is so interesting is this is made by Audinate and this is a Dante AVIO. It's a two channel USB-C IO adapter, but what it does is it allows you to take your Dante network and push it straight into your iPhone 15. So now, so basically you have your ethernet and you have your USB-C, and this USB-C then goes into, you know, this whole little string here goes into the end of your, into your 15, and now you're getting studio audio and the phone, when you plug it in, the phone just goes, hey, is this headphones? And you go, yeah, yeah, it's headphones, and you go okay, and it just treats it like a headphone jack.

Now, we used to do this. The reason that we would use these is for things like if you really wanna be on a phone call and blow everybody away, you can now have a studio mic and push it straight into your phone. If you're doing a show, so if you're using something like Twitter X, whatever, or Clubhouse or any kind of other thing, that's audio only. Some of these require you to use your phone. They will not let you use a studio setup or whatever so like. For instance, if you're going to Instagram and you need to use the Instagram app, you can now have a full-on mixer. So you could have a you know a Neve board if you wanted to, and output the whole thing and just plummet right into your phone and you would get that high quality audio back into the phone. So it is a you know. It's a great way, it's not perfectly.

2:07:46 - Leo Laporte
Let me understand how this works. Which end goes into which thing.

2:07:52 - Alex Lindsay
Yeah, so the USB-C goes into your phone. Your phone, okay, and then?

2:07:56 - Leo Laporte
you put it in the jack end and it's seen by the phone as an audio device.

2:07:59 - Alex Lindsay
It just looks like a headphone jack. It's like, okay, you know, just so, the phone just thinks it's a headphone jack, but what it's doing is it's using Dante. Dante is a network audio over network, audio over IP. So Dante means in my world, whole studios, events, everything also running on Dante, so you can have hundreds of channels moving around. You could, but in this case you would have it go into your professional mixer. Your mixer would then send it to Dante as a stereo track. So you have, you can have 80 channels going into your mixer and then it. You do all the mixing and then you just plummet back out and it goes into. You know, it goes out of Dante over an ethernet just into your network and then this is, this is doesn't it require to be PoE? I did notice that it does charge your phone while you're connecting to it, but it is PoE and it goes out into your. You know it basically converts that audio over IP back into the USB-C as a headphone. So you can now tie again if you're an artist who wants to play great music and have the power of your mixer, so you're not just using the iPhone's audio input to play your music, or if you're someone who wants to again use a studio mic for whatever reason, for a phone call, these are ways to get.

We've used Bluetooth in the past. I have another one, that's Bluetooth 2, that does the same thing. It shows up as a headphone jack, but it was a little. You know it's Bluetooth, so every once in a while it didn't work. This is just a hard line straight into it to do that, and you can push it, of course, into a breakout so you could have you know again. The phone now is becoming this entirely new thing. You know. You could have professional audio going in, you could have a capturing high quality video. All of those things could all be tied back together.

2:09:37 - Leo Laporte
So it's kind of a great deal so the ethernet jack then goes into some form of Dante enabled audio network.

2:09:44 - Alex Lindsay
It's just yeah, just Dante over a network, Right and for simple Dante, you can just literally start plugging devices in what's the cheapest Dante kind of mixer or inject I guess an injector of some kind.

Well, you can have. For instance, you can have, you can put Dante virtual sound card onto your Mac. Oh, so you could do it from a Mac. For 30 bucks. Oh, so now you can send your Mac audio into Into your iPhone. Into your iPhone? Yeah so, and you could you know if you have audio going into your Mac? You're like your voice, you could be mixing your voice with anything else that's going on in your Mac and you know, all of those things could be mixed down oh, that's interesting Again in your Mac and you could use software, something like you know there's like, I think, sound Deck, which is another thing there. So, anyway, so there's a lot of different ways. Anything that takes Dante, which is a lot of things, can now just feed that audio full quality back into your phone, which is that is really interesting. A lot of us have tried to do this for a long time. It's been, you know, getting good audio into it has been a thing.

2:10:50 - Leo Laporte
So this thing has is brand new. It hasn't been around before.

2:10:53 - Alex Lindsay
It's no, it's been around, oh, but new.

2:10:56 - Leo Laporte
The USB-C interface to the phone has, yeah, the USB-C.

2:10:59 - Alex Lindsay
We were doing this with our iPads and with lots of other things, but the fact that you can do it to your phone is exciting and new, interesting. It's not new itself.

2:11:08 - Leo Laporte
It's just Now. Remember that many phone calls are seven bit sound, so you might be sending very high quality audio into.

2:11:16 - Alex Lindsay
Well, yeah, I mean again, it's probably more more likely that you would use it For Zoom or something like For Zoom or for other things that you might want to sound a little bit better. I know that the when I use the other one, the Bluetooth one that I was using before this because we didn't have a USB-C, I jumped into a clubhouse, you know, and I, just because it was just the easiest way for me to jump in, Right, I jumped into a clubhouse I think they were talking about renewable energy or something like that and I was just listening. And then I was like, oh, I want to say something, and I asked a couple of questions and they, the first thing they said, is what are you doing with your mic? Why do you sound so good? Because I had this mic.

2:11:54 - Leo Laporte
I had this mic and I was going into a phone.

2:11:56 - Alex Lindsay
Like everybody else had that and you know it's. You know the I always. You know your audio and your video nowadays is your suit and tie, you know. So if you want to look and sound a little bit better, you know that's probably more important than what you wear at this point.

2:12:15 - Andy Ihnatko
It kind of gets back to what we're talking about the iPhone being used to record that event at Apple. Like it's amazing that this phone is basically just a cartridge that you insert into all kinds of other hardware, because it's just a cartridge that contains a CPU, a network interface, a data bus and a way of writing data to an external device. And that just okay. Just unplug the cartridge, plug it into this amazing huge Voltron robot at the middle of it. That's the. It's just a tiny little phone I love it.

2:12:48 - Alex Lindsay
And the funny thing is that it all came back to that head that you saw at the beginning. An older version of that is really where you know how all this happened. Because if you look at this camera, the camera that you see out of focus here, the 950, you can pull the optical block out of that 950. And the reason that that's important is that ILM asked Sony. They were like we need to go and we need it lighter so that we can put it on a motion control arm, and so, and then that's why when you see all these little box cameras that all came because they were because Sony figured out how to take the optical block out of the camera for effect shots, and then everyone was like that's all we need, like why are we building the rest of this camera?

2:13:21 - Leo Laporte
Yeah, go ahead. I didn't even think of this, but Apple, did they talk about how their audio worked on that on the event? No, it was just video. I'm sure they're not using the iPhone.

2:13:31 - Alex Lindsay
To the audio. Yeah, I mean pretty common for any of those shoots to record the audio separately anyway, so that you would never, very rarely, would you, plumb it.

2:13:38 - Leo Laporte
They're gonna use some sound design's device and then that just and editing. They'll just pair it up. Yeah.

2:13:44 - Alex Lindsay
And you sometimes pipe it back in or you use. You just let the mics capture whatever they're gonna capture so you can use it to re-sync. But that's also when they talk about the tentacle sync. That gives it time code so that allows you to sync it. The tentacle sync would allow you to sync it back to the audio records that you had on your Scorpio Just because Scorpio reads time code. Or generates it, or generates it it could, it would probably. You probably jam the tentacle to the Scorpio.

2:14:12 - Leo Laporte
Gosh, there's a sentence. I didn't think I'd be here in any time soon. Thank you, Alex Lindsey. You know you like this kind of stuff. This really floats your boat. You should go to office hoursglobal every single day. Every single day, there's something exciting. They probably have said jam your tentacle into your Scorpio more than once.

2:14:31 - Alex Lindsay
Well, you know the Shut up title. Yeah, the tomorrow we're gonna actually be doing a lab and it's probably the most complex audio on a Mac that I've ever seen. So Chris Fenwick, who is regularly on our panel there's a video on our YouTube channel where he explains the pipeline that he uses to control, using Sound Desk and Loopback and all these other things, and he built this like 10 minute video and what we decided to do is put the 10 minute video out and you should go watch it. And then we're gonna just have a lab where we just kind of hang out and talk about it in a second hour Is that on your YouTube?

channel. It's on the YouTube channel right now. It's featured, so it should be really near the top. But if you just look for the, you know the Sound Desk Loopback. I don't know I can't remember what the title was that we put on it, but it's right at the very top and but it is an incredible outline of how it all works. And so I would highly recommend watching that video and then checking watching the live tomorrow, because we're gonna just we're experimenting with kind of a new format, which is kind of just these labs where we're not really trying to make it a show. We're just gonna hang out and play with the hardware and software and talk about it and answer questions. So a little bit more informal. So we're gonna be doing that in the second hour. So I would highly recommend checking out that video. It's really cool. And then and then come join us tomorrow. We're gonna talk about the. We're gonna walk through it. He and I are gonna. I have all the pieces that he has, so do it together and figure it out Office hoursglobal.

2:16:03 - Leo Laporte
What's the YouTube type? Cause there's another.

2:16:05 - Alex Lindsay
Office Hours. Office Hours Global Office.

2:16:07 - Leo Laporte
Hours. Global is the key. Okay, yeah, cause there's others. Yeah.

2:16:13 - Alex Lindsay
I didn't, you know it was only supposed to last.

2:16:15 - Leo Laporte
I know he told us it was gonna be two weeks. This is for COVID, right? I know yeah.

2:16:20 - Alex Lindsay
So I was like. I was like, oh, this is a lot, and I didn't expect it to turn anything. I was like I'm doing office hours for a couple months so that to help people do whatever they're gonna do. I didn't expect all these cool people to show up and I didn't expect it to turn into something. Yeah, it's not. I would have picked a different name if I thought I was gonna laugh.

2:16:36 - Leo Laporte
No, it's a great name, are you kidding? It's a wonderful name Office Hoursglobal, Both on the web and on the YouTube. Yeah, so what's your name? I'm Brian Ako.

2:16:47 - Andy Ihnatko
G-B-H Week. After next 12.30 Friday at the Boston Public Library. Go to WGBHnewsorg to stream it and audio Go to WGBHnews channel on YouTube to see it.

2:17:01 - Leo Laporte
I always hate it when Halloween falls on a show day, because then this happens, and so you're lucky you didn't have to go to the Boston Public Library dressed as a goon. I try.

2:17:14 - Andy Ihnatko
Well, I always do anyway. That's kind of my default setting. However, I did try to help you out. Here I am wearing one of my favorite cosplay pieces that, if I put together another like Metropolitan Opera safe costume that I wasn't able to use this year because I planned it in advance and it turned out there was nothing going on like Halloween weekend that A I wanted to see or B it would have been appropriate to show up dressed in a costume. But so I'm here, I'm helping you in spirit.

2:17:43 - Leo Laporte
You're kind of turning into Dr who before our very eyes. I might add.

2:17:48 - Andy Ihnatko
I'm very pleased. I was the best and probably the only cosplay I've ever gotten. About how I dress was from someone at a Comic-Con who asked me I was dressed up what I thought was nicely, because I was interviewing people on stage all weekend and so, oh, what are you dressed as? Oh, this isn't a costume, just wear a dress. Oh, I'm sorry you dressed like a time lord. I'm saying thank you very much. That is codifying all of my fashion sense for the future. He dresses like a time lord and that will do me fine, that's a good aspirational thing.

2:18:21 - Leo Laporte
I think, yeah, thank you Andrew. Thank you very much. I don't know what I'm dressed like, but it ain't a time lord. It ain't a lord of anything. Mr Jason Snell is at sixcolorscom. He does so many shows. He is a Viking today, but who knows what it'll be tomorrow? Go to sixcolorscom, slash Jason. Anything in particular you'd like to mention this week?

2:18:44 - Jason Snell
No, just stay tuned to sixcolorscom. Right, that's. I got my big piece up there about the announcements from yesterday and I'm sure you know there'll be a man-affectating thing going forward.

2:18:53 - Leo Laporte
It really informed actually everything we did today, because when I read that I said Jason, not only Jason has nailed it, he also had his hands on it.

2:19:02 - Jason Snell
So I got my fingerprints on it a little bit, yeah, so this is absolutely must read.

2:19:09 - Leo Laporte
Piece sixcolorscom. Thank you, jason, andy, alex, thanks to all of you for joining us. We do this show every Tuesday, 11 am Pacific, 2 pm, eastern, 1800. Well, never mind, forget. I said 1800 because it's not, it's gonna be. Oh God, I should have done the math ahead of time. Sunday we go back to a standard time and that means, because GMT UTC does not change, we're falling back, so we'll be UTC minus eight, so 1900 UTC. I don't know, you figure it out, it's so complicated. 11 am Pacific. That's the benchmark, right? You figure it out from there and you can watch. The only reason I mentioned that you don't have to watch this live, but you can at livetwittv. There's audio and video there. If you're watching live, do join us live.

In our club twit discord you can talk about the days events. Club twit is how we are funding a lot of what we're doing and, frankly, towards the end of the year I have a feeling we're gonna have a little bit of a I don't know a come to Jesus moment, because ad sales have really dwindled, not just for us, for all podcasts. I don't know if it's because there's so many podcasts or because advertisers have decided that YouTube influencers are a better deal. I don't know what's going on, but as a result, we are turning to you, our audience, for more and more of our funding. Now, the good news is it's not expensive Seven bucks a month, $84 a year. There are family plans and corporate plans. You get ad-free versions of every show, which is nice, plus shows we don't put out anywhere else, like Hands On Macintosh with Micah Sargent, hands On Windows with Paul Therati on titled Linux Show with Jonathan Bennett, giz Viz with Dick D Bartolo, scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks. Those are all paid for by club members.

Thank you, club members. And then the Discord is just a little icing on the cake, a wonderful place to hang. We thank you for joining. If you can afford it, we appreciate it. At twittv slash club, twit Now on-demand versions of the shows, ad supported, are still available for free at twittv slash mbw. And you can still subscribe in your favorite podcast client. And there's still a YouTube channel even more ads If you're not a YouTube premium subscriber. There is a Mac Break Weekly channel so you can share little clips with friends and family and that kind of thing. In any event, we're glad you're here. We hope you'll be back next week. Unfortunately, it is my solemn duty at this point to tell you get back to work because break time is over. Bye-bye.

2:21:54 - Mikah Sargent
Oh, hey, that's a really nice iPhone you have there. You totally picked the right color. Hey, since you do use an iPhone and maybe use an iPad or an Apple Watch or an Apple TV, well, you should check out iOS Today. That's a show that I, micah Sargent, and my co-host, rosemary Orchard, host every Tuesday right here on the twit network. It covers all things iOS, tvOS, homepodOS, watchPS, ipadOS it's all the OS's that Apple has on offer, and we'd love to give you tips and tricks about making the most of those devices, checking out great apps and services and answering your tech questions. I hope you check it out.