MacBreak Weekly 453 (Transcripts)

Leo Laporte: It's time for MacBreak Weekly, we've got a great show for you. The watch is here, now here come the watch accessories. We'll talk about what companies can and cannot do, and show you some bling that you might want to add to your Apple Watch for a mere 2,000 Pounds, it's all coming up next on MacBreak Weekly.

(Intro begins)

Announcers: Netcasts you love, from people you trust. This is TWiT. Bandwidth for MacBreak Weekly is provided by CacheFly. That's C-A-C-H-E-F-L-Y dot com.

(Intro ends)

Leo: This is MacBreak Weekly, episode 453, recorded Tuesday May 5^th, 2015.

Let the Wookiee Wear the Watch

Leo: MacBreak Weekly is brought to you by Lynda.com, the online learning platform with over 3,000 online demand video courses to help you strengthen your business, technology and creative skills, for a free 10 day trial visit Lynda.com/macbreak. That's L-Y-N-D-A.com/macbreak. And by Gazelle. The fast and simple way to sell your used gadgets. Find out what your used iPhone, iPad or other Apple product is worth at Gazelle.com. And by Harry's, for guys who want a great shave experience for a fraction of what you're paying now, go to Harrys.com. Get $5 off your first purchase by entering the code MACBREAK when you check out. It's time for MacBreak Weekly, the show where we cover the latest Apple news. With the great Andy Ihnatko from the Chicago Sun Times.

Andy Ihnatko: Howdy.

Leo: He's not pixelated my friends, he just plays a pixel on television.

Andy: I have this low resolution background so that my face looks like it's even higher definition than you.

Leo: It's so crisp, it's so perfect. It actually, it... you know what I think the background probably works really well with the encoding, I just thought about that.

Andy: If it helps with bit rate, anything if you've got like home broadband it's like... sometimes you're lucky to say “Is it in color? Good. Is it stable? We'll take it.”

Leo: We'll take it. Also here from Montreal, it's Rene Ritchie of iMore.com, hello Rene.

Rene Ritchie: Hi Leo, there's sun outside, it's shining, there's all this green stuff on the ground, it's a fabulous day.

Leo: Oh, how do you handle that?

Rene: I stay inside.

Leo: You know we had your buddy Georgia on TWiT, she was great by the way, on Sunday.

Rene: She's fantastic.

Leo: I neglected to say that she was two time Canadian National Champion in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Rene: Yeah she wears the belts like Hulk Hogan style across her shoulders, it's... intolerable.

Leo: Oh my god, I'm so glad I didn't piss her off.

Andy: Even when she's shopping at the deli? Just...

Leo: Do not mess with me.

Andy: You'll have to deal with these 24 inch pythons!

Leo: Did you get into Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu because of her or did you get to know her because of that, or...?

Rene: So we were doing Chinese martial arts and we did that for like ten years and then she said “I'm tired of this, we're going to go do something else.” And we all said “Okay you're the boss, we'll do it.”

Leo: Oh okay, so you've known her for ages.

Rene: Yeah. And she's really good at knowing, you know, what the next course of action should be.

Leo: She's a leader.

Rene: Yes.

Leo: Speaking of leaders, verso is here, @verso, Kelly, I've known Kelly Guimont for a long time I just didn't know her name.

Kelly Guimont: (laughs)

Leo: @verso on the Twitter, hi Kelly, first time on MacBreak Weekly, welcome, welcome!

Kelly: Yes, I'm super excited to be here.

Leo: From MacObserver.com, you may remember her from Engadget and elsewhere. And App Camp For Girls.

Kelly: Yup.

Leo: Nice, are you a councilor?

Kelly: I am.

Leo: Oh fun.

Kelly: I've been a counselor, I've also been MC, it's for me to keep time and let everybody know what's coming up next, so... yeah.

Leo: Fun. Of course the great G. McDonald also participant and that's really great. We're going to talk a little bit about that, you told us some great stories from that, and they actually have their first app.

Kelly: Yes.

Leo: From App Camp For Girls. We'll talk about that in just a little bit. I suppose we should talk about, there must be some Apple... news.

Rene: Eh.

Leo: (laughs)

Kelly: I don't know.

Jason: As producer of this show I can safely say eh.

Leo: Eh.

Jason: There's some stuff.

Leo: Eh.

Andy: You act as though this panel is not four dynamic personalities that can have an entertaining conversation about practically any topic.

Leo: Well that's a good point.

Jason: I'm banking on that.

(laughing)

Andy: And maybe we're about to prove that today.

Leo: You already proved it, I came in and I heard all this going back and forth about what people were wearing and I thought you were talking about Age of Ultron, the new Avengers movie. It turns out you're talking about the Met gala.

Andy: Because... like Mashable has almost the complete red carpet, like all of the men and women and their fancy dress.

Leo: Ah.

Andy: And I was curious to see, I wonder if any of these people have an Apple Watch and decided at this ultra ultra ultra fashionable event, I'm choosing to wear this watch because I see it as a very very fashionable thing, and I have not seen it anywhere, certainly not... none, definitely not on any of the womens wrists, the men... they're doing that weird thing where you don't like roll up the sleeves of your tuxedo to leave your hands free for smartwatches.

Leo: Right.

Andy: So I don't get fashion, but... not that this is a bad thing for Apple that none of them are wearing it, but it's the other way around, it would have been... what a coup it would have been for Apple to have people who are wearing this $18,000 gowns that they know they're going to be photographed in and they know that every detail is going to be looked at, and if they said “You know what, I absolutely want to wear this Apple Watch, because I do believe it to be wonderful and fashionable and this is part of the statement I want to make.”

Leo: Oh my... whoa, did you see... sorry. I forgot that there was...

Rene: Unsafe for work Leo.

Andy: This dress brought to you by spray adhesive!

Rene: It could have been embarrassing, like...

Leo: Where would she put an Apple Watch I guess would be the question. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Rene: They're always a mixed bag because we saw again this weekend with the... I forget how to pronounce his last name. Manny Pacquaio with the boxing where they were doing all these Samsung photos and the minute the match is over he's tweeting from his iPhone, and you could just see a bunch of people wearing Apple Watches and then at the thing, right after it's over they're tweeting from the Pebble, and you just never know what's going to happen.

Andy: Yeah. It's like, I saw Age of Ultron over the weekend and I'm not completely convinced that Tony Stark uses Samsung tablets.

Leo: (laughs) But he does in the movie, huh?

Andy: He does indeed.

Leo: Wow.

Andy: It's like, it's amazing because you're inside his lab and he's showing these amazing like huge immersive 3D glowing data representations and then he's like “Oh I've got the data right here.” And he hands over like a commercial Galaxy Tab 10 with the Samsung logo on it. Like, I'm guessing you have something better than that and it might have an Apple logo on it.

Leo: I just... this is why product placement sucks because if it's unnatural like that... in... wasn't it in House of Cards?

Rene: Yeah.

Leo: That just kind of in a random moment they're talking to the FBI or something and the guy says “Wait a minute, let me throw this to the screen.” He's got a Samsung tablet and he goes like this, and it goes to the...

Andy: Yeah...

Leo: It was like an ad! It was like the middle of an ad!

Rene: Hawaii 5-0 has been doing that a lot lately. Just this week they had a whole prolonged conversation with Cortana, and they kind of made fun of it like the guy's only friend is Cortana which is not a good message.

Kelly: Oh, it's bad.

Leo: Oh no.

Andy: Yeah, I thought it was hysterically funny that like on Parks and Recreation it's like... only 2% of the population owns a Windows phone but it seems like all of them are sold to people in Pawnee, Indiana because the only phone anybody ever uses is a Windows phone device.

Rene: And they don't just show it to you, they try to teach you, like in one of the scenes it's like “Let me show you how to send a quick message,” or how to share a photo, and it's...

Leo: Mhm.

Rene: It just takes your head out of the show.

Kelly: Yeah, well sometimes they say no though. Like the latest news from the James Bond movie, the new James Bond movie that is coming out in November that is called Spectre that I am ridiculously excited for, I don't know if you've noticed.

Leo: (laughs) Did you take a breath in there at any point?

Kelly: I did not. Because James Bond, and it makes me want to talk with my hands.

Leo: James Bond! Is it still Daniel Craig?

Rene: Yes sir.

Kelly: Yes.

Leo: I actually like him.

Kelly: I do too.

Leo: My wife says you can't be a blond Bond.

Kelly: See... Mr. Kelly says that, and I disagree.

Rene: The best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be.

Leo: I love him.

Kelly: But they said, Sony wanted Daniel Craig to carry some sort of Sony smartphone and Daniel Craig and Sam Mendez said “No, no.” Because James Bond would use the best.

Leo: Oh, ouch!

Kelly: Like, that's a public quote from Sam Mendez.

Leo: And it's a Sony Pictures production.

Kelly: So that's why they were like... “You know...” And it... no.

Rene: They had all those awkward Symbian phones on Batman and on Iron Man for a while where they would have like their hologram phone in one scene and then the most ancient possible Symbian Nokia phone in another one.

Leo: Oh please.

Kelly: I know.

Leo: This is my favorite dress from the gala. Don Johnson's daughter Dakota wearing what looks like mirror... metallic mirrors, it's a Chanel. But I don't see, you're right... oh I went backwards, that's why. This... I don't see any... did you find, did you guys find any Apple Watches anywhere?

Andy: No, I didn't see any. And like I said...

Leo: But you're not carrying a phone. You're probably not carrying a phone, right?

Andy: Well, also yeah I mean... it's... it would probably be on... I'm guessing that they'd be on...

Leo: What is this guy with the gong?

Rene: It's a Chinese theme Leo.

Leo: (laughing) What is...? What is... excuse me, but sir what's the deal with the gong? Is that your outfit? Maybe that was... it looks like Ben Stiller.

Rene: I think it's a staff gong.

Andy: Maybe he's like judging the dresses as they walk by.

Leo: Gong.

Kelly: Oh there you go. And if you get gonged you have to go home and change.

Andy: Like a classier version of Sandman Sims, nope, I'm sorry. Insufficient butt coverage.

Rene: He will gong you in and gong you out.

Andy: Your party is at the McDonald's across the street.

Leo: Just this picture, it feels like it really is all about butts and gongs.

Kelly: Yeah.

Andy: And we have a show title.

Kelly: There it is.

Leo: (laughing)

Rene: 31 minutes in.

Leo: Alright, and we haven't talked about Apple at all.

(gong noise in background)

Leo: There we go. See, he's doing his job. But the context of this was, and talk about a long way around, we were looking for Apple Watches.

(laughing)

Leo: You guys. You know, I really don't think we're going to see a lot of Apple Watches in the wild. I think... I just... okay, I know I'm kind of beating a dead gong here, but I just feel like there's not a compelling story yet.

Rene: I was going to say they can't ship enough.

Leo: I know.

Kelly: That's what it is.

Leo: But what does that mean? That just means that... there's going to be millions of Apple faithful, you know. 5 or 10 million that are just going to buy buy buy, and they're going to buy right away, they're going to buy sight unseen, they don't care. But I think that it's going to trickle out into the world a little bit and people are going to go “I don't really see the real need for that.”

Andy: Well I don't know about that, but it is a significant data point that almost everybody who has one on their wrist right now is someone who had never touched one.

Leo: Right.

Andy: Had never had... absolutely no experience with any of the software on it, had no idea of what the apps would be, they did buy this on faith and that's not a bad thing. That does indicate that there are people who are early believers saying that I believe in this concept so strongly, and also I feel that for me personally Apple has such a strong track record of making things that I like that I'm willing to gamble $350, to $400 to even $1,000 on it. So that has to color a lot of what people are saying about it right now. Though the real challenge comes, I do think that in the summer when the taps get opened on the production line and now you can walk into an Apple store, place an order, and have in the next two or three days. Those are going to be like the more regular people. It's like, there are people who are fans of James Bond, there are people like me who are fans of Raiders of the Lost Ark and Star Wars and these movies and we're not the people to tell you how awesome it was to see a new Star Wars movie after 20 years because we're probably going to like Episode I for many reasons that have nothing to do with what's actually there inside the movie theater.

Leo: Yeah.

Rene: Yeah, I'm going to go back to Jim Dalrymple's metric word, it's not so much how many people... sorry Kelly.

Kelly: No, sorry. I just... I have no reasons to like Episode I so I was curious what they were.

Leo: (laughing) Back to the geek talk.

Andy: I had... I had to see it a second and third time before I was even able to process it as a movie that's telling a story with characters. The moment that I'm sitting there in the theater and I hear the Fox fanfare and then I  hear the Star Wars fanfare and I see the yellow crawl and I realize that “Oh my god, I don't know what any of those words are, I'm going to actually have to read this. Okay that was good for the next 45 minutes.” And then it's only on the second or third that I realize that just the novelty of seeing a new story set in the Star Wars universe, I've finally burned that off and was able to say “Okay, I like these parts of it. Really didn't like this, and I really hated this part of it.” And I think that Apple Watch is going to be a little bit of the same thing. It's going to take a while for Apple fans and people who are just fans of new things to sort of burn off their expectations of “Wow isn't this cool? Isn't this novel?” and finally... I guess this shorter way of putting this, I like the Pebble watch. I enjoy the Pebble watch, I reviewed the Pebble watch. After 30 days however, I found that I was only using it as a timepiece. Like I was only using it to find out what time it is, I wasn't using any of the features and at that point it went back in its box.

Rene: Yeah that's sort of...

Kelly: The thing that I... go ahead Rene.

Rene: No I was just going to back to the Jim Dalrymple metric where he said like he's most curious about who's going to wear it a week in, a month in, three months in, and that's when you start to see... based on the use, not just who's buying it because you can buy anything.

Leo: But who still wears it.

Rene: But who's using it over a long period of time.

Leo: Here, somebody in the chatroom gave me this Tom Gauld comic from the New York Times Magazine, The Amazing New Thing. Panel one. “What is that thing?” “I don't know, but I really want one.” Panel two, what people are saying about the amazing new thing. “The amazing new thing has changed my life.” “I thought the last amazing thing was amazing but this new one is even more amazing.” “It's a ridiculous trinket for overpaid hipsters!” “Why can't everything be this amazing?” “I hear they're working on an even more amazing thing, I'm going to wait for that.” This is all true.

Andy: Can I stop you there? Let's alternate panels, we'll make this like love letters.

Leo: Okay I'll do one, you do one alright? Delivery day: “Ooh.”

Andy: Your turn.

Leo: No, your turn.

Andy: “Amazing new life, here I come.”

Leo: Feedback: “Would you like to give feedback on my amazingness?”

Andy: “Sure!”

Leo: “A, completely amazing, B, kind of amazing, C, barely amazing, D, not amazing at all.

Andy: “B.”

Leo: “B? Really?”

Andy: “Sorry.”

Leo: “It's fine. Totally fine.” A few months later... you start.

Andy: Rene and Kelly.

Leo: Rene and Kelly can jump in as well. (laughs)

Andy: Rene you start off.

Rene: “Where am I?”

Kelly: “I wish I knew.”

Leo: “We've been here for years.”

Rene: “This must be a mistake, I'm sure she'll be back for me soon.”

Kelly: “She picked me up once, but all she wanted was my batteries.”

Leo: Elsewhere...

Andy: “Ooh!”

Leo: The news!

Rene: Such a Toy Story moment.

Leo: (laughs) Ooh! Nicely done.
Rene: There's some truth to that though because like we notice...

Leo: The MacBreak Weekly players everybody, yeah! (clapping)

Rene: Radio theater.

Andy: Brought to you by (indistinguishable) cigarettes, the smooth draw and the smoky finish that doctors...

Rene: Maybe something though like, when I get a new iPhone, I stop using the... the new iPad comes out, I start using that a lot more than I use the one that I had two days previously, a new iPhone comes out I start using that a lot, and I go back and forth because the new thing always is interesting and compelling and there's always new discovery, it feels like why we climb the hill and cross the river.

Leo: Yeah, I don't want to be a grump. I mean... this is, I mean... it's really, there's a lot of, you can tell a lot of energy went into this watch. It feels like the software has been... they've been working on it for years, there's a lot of fine tuning the hardware. A lot of fine tuning. I'm not saying that.

Rene: It moves everything forward. Everything's going to get better now.

Leo: Yeah, see I disagree... my feeling is...

Rene: Well no, but I mean Apple entering the market and putting this down means that Apple is going to make a version too and Google has competition for Android Wear, Pebble is doing... it just makes the entire market more interesting for everybody.

Leo: My questioning is not the Apple Watch, my questioning is the category itself. Is this... I don't feel like this is... you know, I mean look at Apple's trying to get, everybody's trying to repeat the success they had with the iPhone. The iPhone, which did not sell very well at first, relatively, is a phenomenon that changed the company. It's their business now. Everything else is a minor part of their business. And of course it's their job to come up with the next iPhone. Do you think this is it?

Rene: Nobody, there's no other product, there's not even another phone that makes money like the iPhone does. The iPhone is a singular phenomenon that I don't know if anybody is going to reproduce. Samsung certainly doesn't make that much money. Motorola, all the phone companies. It's almost unique. I don't want to call it an accident, but it is so far unreproduceable so I think everyone is trying to get more legs on the table. Like more iPod businesses, more iPod original businesses, more Mac businesses, just a bunch of other things taken together will make significant income.

Leo: Do you think that Jony Ive was right, that Swiss watchmakers should be worried?

Andy: No. What a dope.

Kelly: No.
Andy: That's the... there is some, there are some times when even brilliant people say things that make you think “Oh. Sweetie, it's so adorable that you think that.”

Leo: (laughs)

Andy: We're going to put that on the fridge, because Swiss watchmakers should... oh that's absolutely...

Rene: Although I do hope that the Swiss watchmakers adopt the easy to change straps and the easy to size straps.

Leo: I do like that, yes.

Rene: Apple made a lot of advances in the category of straps, and like telephones, that had been an industry where they had decades to do that and nobody did and now maybe they'll start moving that forward too.

Leo: They had those really ridiculous pins. In fact, I'm getting a new Android watch tomorrow and it's 22mm which means I have to use my little pin hammer and my little pin tool.

Kelly: Oh, mhm.

Andy: Realize that that's not really an Apple innovation, the reason why watchmakers haven't done that before is because for $400, $350 which is the minimum buy-in for a watch, you can have several watches and not have to buy a separate band because you put so much money into this face.

Rene: But sizing them were a pain, you had to take them to a jeweler or get a special tool set. Like with mine I had to get a special tool set...

Andy: I'm saying that if you look on the top of someone's dresser you would see three or four watches. One expensive one, one more sporty one, one that's a more fun stylish one. I had an uncle who was vice president at a bank who would wear these very expensive suits, but with his free orange Florida Citrus promotional watch because it was the one he liked.

Leo: (laughs) There's another thing, you kind of hit the nail...

Andy: It's nice that there are these interchangeable stuff but...

Leo: You kind of hit the nail on the head inadvertently I think which was that watches were sold by jewelers and watchmakers needed jewelers, jewelers were a big part of it, so the fact that you had to go to a jeweler to get a different band or to get a link removed from a band was a part of the, I think part... there was no incentive for them to take that out, that was the business that brought you back into the jeweler right?

Rene: It's why every kung-fu teacher was a chiropractor Leo, day in day out business.

Leo: Yeah. Exactly. So accessories... this is, I just took the strap off mine, you see how easy it was to do and I guess these are standardized across the whole thing, right?

Rene: And the link bracelet you just pop a little button on it, you take links out, you re-size it.

Leo: I love that, yeah.

Rene: It's so... like anybody can do it. And the modern buckle, my mom went for the try-on and she's... she's a senior and she has arthritis and she has trouble with jewelry but the modern buckle is actually magnetic and she had a super easy... for her it was an accessibility feature and no other jewelry offers her that.

Leo: Well in fact that's why I got this, because it's accessibility and sizing. I got the Milanese because it's very easy to put on.

Rene: And I think this is the kind of thing that Apple are entering this market hopefully will get other brands and other people doing... if not exactly the same thing, then the same idea.

Leo: Right.

Kelly: Mhm. Well it's one of the things that I think sometimes gets forgotten when Apple announces a new product like this which is something that they hadn't done before, there were mp3 players before there was an iPod, and there were phones that could give you email and had web browsers before there was an iPhone. And there are watches that will show you notifications from your phone before there was the Apple Watch. So I think there's a certain amount of that that sort of gets lost in the new of it, but I'm hoping as supply lines loosen up you are able to walk in and get one, or at least if you try to order one today your ship date isn't the middle of July.

Andy: Yeah.

Kelly: When we get to that point, I think there will be a lot more of it and I think once... sort of once the novelty of it wears off because a lot of more technical people know about the Pebble and got in on the Kickstarter and that sort of thing but I think there were a fair number of people who probably don't know anything about it and didn't realize there was anything like this that came before. And once those folks are able to try one on and go “Yeah, I'd like to buy this.” And then have it in a day or two, those folks, I think that's when we're going to start seeing this take over, and see a lot more of it out and about, and by then it won't be new anymore so it's not going to be a thing, it'll just be something that you notice. Like now you notice when somebody pulls out their iPhone at... on a red carpet, or at some sort of event. Like you see a lot of celebrities with iPhones  and it's not a big deal anymore because there's been an iPhone for a long time. I think we're going to have that with the watch as well.

Andy: Yeah. It's... Apple has such a big challenge ahead of them, as does Android, Google, as does Pebble. I think that, I really do think that people who have made a watch decision that they're very very comfortable with either they've decided that I don't want to strap something on my wrist every single day, I don't need a watch, or they decided that I love this watch, it's not just simply a timepiece it's  a piece of style that I just really really enjoy, and when you talk about something, a device that has never really existed before, that they maybe don't even know somebody who has a smartwatch, what does it take to bust that... bust them out of that existing habit? What gets them to take, stop wearing their grandfather's watch that they got after their father died two years ago, and replace it with a gadget? So the message, I... it's been said that NASA spent more money on the simulated moon landings than Russia spent on their entire lunar program back in the '60s and it seems as though however much money Apple spent on the design and the manufacture of these watches, they should spend just as much just educating people and getting the message out there. Here is what it will do for you because until millions are out there and until everybody knows somebody or even has somebody in the family who has a smartwatch, I can say “Hey you have an Apple Watch, you have a smartwatch, how do you like it?” and get a positive answer, that's a really high hill for Apple to climb.

Leo: One of the things that the iPod fostered was... and the iPhone after it is a massive accessory movement. In fact, MacBreak Expo became about the accessories, it was like the Apple accessory expo.

Rene: Well CES is still like matrix shelves of cases everywhere.

Leo: Yeah there's a whole... yeah, pavilions devoted to accessories for the iPhone.

Kelly: Oh, yeah.

Leo: So we are starting to see people announce that they're going to do something. Jordan Kahn had the story in 9to5 Mac, I don't know... I think now it might have been discredited that, or at least Apple says “We're not going to allow people to do this.” Some accessory makers want to access the hidden port to put a strap with a battery in it. Now can that happen?

Rene: It's not a hidden port... so there is something very closely akin to a lightning port on the Apple Watch.

Leo: I'm looking for it, where is it?

Rene: So if you take off the straps, Apple actually in the production models, development models it's open but in the production models it's glued over.

Leo: Oh yeah, there's a little piece of metal over it, you're not able to get...

Rene: It's really hard to take off and you probably don't want to do it. It's really meant for Apple to take off and do diagnostics on it.

Leo: At the store, yeah.

Rene: Yeah absolutely and you don't want anyone accessing that and Apple had just last night in fact released, if you go to developer.apple.com/watch/bands they created the made for Apple Watch program.

Leo: They have a new certification program.

Rene: They released it yesterday. Yeah and that specifically says you can't do this sort of charging thing and Serenity did an article about it earlier today but there's a lot of reasons why you don't want a piece of metal that can get hot, with charging, with... there's all sorts of danger signs that go with human flesh contact and any sort of charging.

Leo: I am encouraged though that Apple will offer, will allow third parties to offer bands, that's good news.

Andy: Yeah that's...

Rene: And they're going to provide the lugs for you. So you just have to provide the band and they'll provide the lugs.

Andy: The lugs are the not... the lightning connector, the thing that you can't manufacture, I'm not sure if you can manufacture it without violating some intellectual property. I would like to see a demonstration of that...

Leo: What's the lug?

Rene: The metal part that slides in.

Leo: That, only Apple can make a lug?

Rene: No, they'll provide them to anyone who wants to make the straps. I think Greg from Luma Labs was talking about like it's possible to make them but it's a heck of a manufacturing process.

Leo: Oh how interesting.

Rene: If you just want to make straps and you're not set up to make high precision stainless steel lugs, you don't have to do that if you don't want to.

Leo: By the way this is a very powerful magnet on the Milanese loop, do not swallow it kids.

Andy: Yeah. I'm looking at the, I'm looking at the actual developer document to look at all the requirements, I'm kind of interested that they have made a... it says bands must not prevent the users skin from maintaining a direct contact with the Apple Watch heart rate sensors and back up Apple Watch.

Leo: That makes sense.

Andy: Well, I was thinking...

Leo: You lose the heart rate sensor.

Andy: No I was thinking about that this morning. There are some people that have like a... they...

Leo: They want to protect their skin from it.

Andy: No no, I'm saying... I'll just go ahead and say it even though, if it might be incomplete, I know a lot of people for whom the big attraction was that the Apple Watch can use a heart rate sensor that is not on the device itself, they do a lot of training so they can have a wearable sensor and for them, look I've already got a heart rate monitor already connected to it, I would much rather have this on like a neoprene band that is not going to interfere with me as I work out with it, I would much rather have it on another stable deck, or maybe even would much rather have it be able to take it off and put it on a workout device that I have because for some people, you've got hairy wrists or some people for instance with the steel watch, they have an allergy to the nickel that's inside the metal and they have to sort of figure out if their skin can actually deal with it. Given... it's interesting that that is an absolute requirement given that they can get heart rate data without actually having content with it. Or even just for the idea that... look this is my watch and I want to wear it the way I want to wear it, and you know what, I really like these gladiator sort of style bands. I don't care that there's leather underneath it because I don't actually use the heart rate monitor features of it. So it's interesting, I was very pleased to read through it and see that there was absolutely nothing related to actual style so that Apple is not... doesn't seem to be reserving the right to say “Yeah that's a really ugly band, no you're not allowed to put that on our watch.”

Rene: Like Tony Stark, right in the chest Andy.

Leo: By the way somebody, Curtis B in the chatroom says the other reason you don't want to lose skin contact is because of Apple Pay, remember that's how the watch says “Oh yeah you already certified this with your thumb print.”
Andy: Yeah but that's a feature, but what if I don't use Apple Pay?

Leo: What if I don't care, right. So the six pin diagnostic port, apparently can be used for charging, good luck getting it. Getting to it. You'd probably have to bring it somewhere.

Andy: That felt like a dumb idea to begin with because almost any... it's like “Welcome visitor from another world who has never dealt with Apple before.” You realize that as soon as you spend half a million dollars to tool up for this, Apple releases a software update.

Leo: Right. And breaks it.

Andy: And says “Oh, I'm no longer going to allow you to charge from this unapproved device.” And you're out of business.

Leo: And to be honest, I haven't had any problems with battery life on the Apple Watch so I'm not...

Andy: You are addressing a worry that people don't need to worry about.

Rene: I'm about 30, 40% left at the end of the day and I'm a pretty heavy user.

Leo: Yeah, it survives the day no problem.

Kelly: Mhm.

Rene: And also, all it takes is for one of these to be badly made and then there's a class action lawsuit against Apple so they've become incredibly cautious over the years.

Leo: Do you really want lithium-ion batteries wrapped around your wrist?

Rene: Charging them too. And it gets hot, too.

Leo: It gets hot!

Rene: One of the reasons they didn't do radio, at least in my understanding one of the reasons they didn't do radio in the first generation is because of the heat issues and they were sensitive to... well they were sensitive to the sensitivity in peoples skins early on.

Leo: Somebody at...

Kelly: Yeah.

Leo: Also in the chatroom also says that Kickstarter, there is on Kickstarter an already funded Apple lug project.

Andy: (laughs)

Leo: So there you go. Chug a lug? No. Jug lug? No. I'm sure I'll find it... lug nuts? No. Lugabug Child...

Andy: People with lug related products really know SEO.

Leo: Let me tell you. There are lugs everywhere on Kickstarter, good luck finding the lug. No... no... maybe if I put Apple Watch. Hey let's search for Apple Watch on Kickstarter, do you think there will be anything there? Click, the first watch band adapter for Apple Watch. Oh there it is, that's it. Click lets you use any 22mm watch band with an Apple Watch. So defeating the entire purpose.

Andy: But Rene makes a good point. There's a difference between manufacturing something that will fit in there and will work for a couple of days, and making something that a month or two later won't break off, will still be a happy experience.

Leo: This is nice, look at this, it's a nice little stand and charger for Apple Watch, takes your phone and your watch and...

Rene: Yeah that's a nice charging stand.

Leo: I know Gryphon just announced one right? Just released one.

Andy: Yeah.

Rene: Yeah.

Andy: That's a no-brainer.

Leo: This one's nice, the problem with the Gryphon one, I don't think it would work with my Milanese loop because it looks more like it's for the clasp watches. Boy, so that's... this is one I'd like to get. They got... they raised $202,000. 616 backers, so I guess they're funded. So now you're going to have to go to Shopify to get this one. I like that.

Andy: Every time I see a successful Kickstarter page I always think about that scene from The Producers, “How much of the show have we sold?” “Max, we've sold 530% of the show.”

Leo: I know!

Andy: “How many percent can there be?” “There can only be 100% of anything Max.”

Leo: (laughing)

Andy: “What happens if the show's not a flop?” “We go to jail Max.”

Rene: One of the things this reminds me of is there's a lot of people who are real watch aficionados, like my boss is like that. He has six or eight high end watches, and he has special cases for all of them, and sets of tools that look almost like little... I want to call them toy tools, but they're so tiny. And it really is this whole lifestyle thing, and now we're seeing like these accessories not really for watch-y watch people but now you can have a stand for watch and this little thing for your watch and it's interesting.

Leo: You want to get a headache? Here's a simple keyboard for Apple Watch and Android Wear, so you can type right on.... you want to get a headache? This is my biggest complaint about the watch, and one of the reasons I'm not convinced the category, not Apple Watch specifically but the category in general is for everybody is that it's just such a small unit that it's hard to have a good UI on something like this.

Andy: Yeah. Believe it or not there is a keyboard on this. So like on Microsoft bands, so...

Leo: I know, on Microsoft, yeah...

Andy: It's like, for God’s sake! I'm fascinated by people who don't understand that something that has a screen is not necessarily a desktop PC.

Leo: Oh here's another one, this is kind of a cute one. And they have a long way to go. The unified dock by Andrew and Kyle. (laughs)

Rene: Hi Andrew, hi Kyle.

Leo: Hi Andrew, hi Kyle. This one is also... everybody seems to want to make a unified thing. Look at all of these.

Kelly: Well because a lot of people have something on their nightstand now to charge their watch over night and so this is just a way to charge everything at once.

Leo: Oh this one comes in gold.

Andy: (laughs) A gold one, oh my god.

Leo: This one's in gold to match your watch.

Andy: That's not gaudy at all.

Rene: Don't spray paint it.

Leo: We are, by the way, on the new Screensavers on Saturday, Kevin Rose is going to be co-hosting, you know he's watch-phil, he's really into watches, so we're going to do a thing on watches. And then we're going to... there is a project that will... for just $400 I think, gold plate your watch. So they're going to come in and gold plate my watch.

Rene: It looks awesome.

Leo: What could possibly go wrong? Takes a few hours. Is that... is it only the aluminum watch you can gold plate?

Rene: I thought it was the stainless steel but I'm not positive.

Leo: Oh good, maybe I can get it gold plated. Here's WatchDock STEEL, a colorful charging dock for the Apple Watch. This is all on Kickstarter. So I guess we... I guess to answer my own question, yes. We're going to say a massive accessory movement. Here's an interesting story, Pebble Time's Kickstarter orders tripled after the Apple Watch was announced.

Rene: Yep.

Leo: Because people go “Oh.” So you were right, this does jump start the category. Alright, 7.5 million results for Kickstarter Apple Watch. (laughs)

Rene: Well there's going to be a lot of people who see an Apple Watch, think that's a good idea, but for... either they don't have an iPhone that's compatible or they just don't want an Apple Watch, but they see that there's alternatives like Pebble or Android Wear or the Garmin and they want, they want on-board GPS for example, so they go with the Garmin.

Andy: By the way, I just really like the idea that we have three or four different makers with not just competing products, but three or four completely different approaches to the concept of a wearable, of a wrist top computer.

Leo: I love that.

Andy: And that's what's really really important.

Leo: I agree with you. I ordered the LG watch, the Urbane, which is round faced. It should come tomorrow, that's the newest Android Ware with Wi-Fi built in. So I'm very... I think what you're going to see is this great race. Horse race.

Rene: Well that's it Leo. Like they might not take off, like you might be right whether the product category is top but I like that all these smart people are working on it because that gives us the best chance of actually getting it.

Leo: Best chance of it. And I think that to your point, Kelly, in the past Apple, and I've mentioned this before but in the past Apple has taken existing category and twisted it and made it take off. I don't get that feeling about this, I was with... waiting to see if Apple found some magic sauce in here that made this watch extra special.
Rene: That was the worry within Apple. A lot of people there, when they were working on the Apple Watch project, they had years of looking at Windows tablets and years of looking at smartphones and years of looking at music players, and they felt like they really knew what the problems were. This you're dealing with a product that's traditional, it's got decades, if not a century of people being deeply attached to their watches, but also not a very long time of smartwatches so you don't have as much time to see the problems and see what people really want to do with them, so it makes it a more challenging problem for them to enter, and not the same way they usually enter categories.

Leo: Right.

Andy: I said this at the Yosemite conference in my talk a couple weeks ago, that Apple is like the Emperor in Star Wars. He is fueled by... they are fueled and powered by hate.

Kelly: (laughing)

Andy: If you show them... because when they designed the iPhone, it was based on all of these engineers and designers are carrying around Windows phone and Palm phones, all these phones that they hate and now they want to build a phone that they don't hate, and in an interview with I think it was Jony Ive and I want to say Wired, he was talking about how by contrast though, we love our watches so we wanted to make a watch that reflected all the things we love about our watch. And I'm like “No, no! No no!” Tell you what, we'll give you a really badly like buy a bag of hundreds of them for $5 off of Ebay wrist watch, that will show you thing you hate about design and ways to design a really great watch. Don't design it based on something you love!

Rene: Your hate will make you powerful!

(Leo and Kelly laughing)

Andy: Yes, I can feel you wanting your wireless charging point now. Because you can't stand the Samsung cradle that required their device.

Rene: Yes, the failure is now complete.

Kelly: (laughing)

Leo: Kelly, if you laugh at them, it just encourages them.

Andy: I feel encouraged, how about you Rene?

Rene: I am encouraged, Palpatine for everybody.

Kelly: I spent all of yesterday wishing everybody Star Wars day and assuring them that it was not a thing...

Rene: You had the best shoes Kelly.

Kelly: And I got the Darth Vader pair too, that was the sale was buy one get one half off. So I now have two pairs of Star Wars Vans, I'm so excited.

Leo: Aw, man. You want to show those to us.

Kelly: I would but they're upstairs.

Leo: Okay, it's on your twitter feed.

Kelly: Yeah. And they're stupendous, so I'm super pumped about them.

Leo: Awesome. I'm so happy for you.

Kelly: (laughing)

Rene: Everything is going according to my plan...

Andy: You know, I was actually looking... since we're talking about like these things are just sort of being turned into gold, there are... AMC or whatever company was making like the Star Wars model kits, they were like losing steam and here it is... they were losing steam on selling these things that they decided to like start, what if we took like the same like old molds and we just like start plating these things in solid Gold. It's a lot...

Kelly: Oh, yeah.

Andy: Here is like X-Wing edition.

Rene: (laughing)

Andy: This is how you make something special.

Rene: It's huge in the Emirates Andy. It's huge in the Emirates.

Andy: Plate the thing in gold and you've got a new product.

Leo: Look at this, this is gold genie, a UK company. The Apple Watch spectrum collection, they have managed to take something beautiful and make it truly ugly.

Rene: Are they the ones that make the gold and gem encrusted iPhones?

Leo: Yeah. 24 karat gold, rose gold or platinum with Swarovski style crystals and a choice of exotic animal skin straps.

Rene: It's like a chocolate-y popsicle, it's not chocolate. It's chocolate-y.

Andy: It's the classic never-ending battle. Apple tries to drag gold colored Apple things into respectability and elegance, this company tries to drag all the way straight back into tacky.

Leo: Back to tacky with the new alligator skin, 24 karat gold Apple Watch elite.

Andy: And can I have the initials YOLO embedded on there in like crystals?

Leo: (laughing)

Rene: Yolo!

Leo: So I guess they take the stainless steel and they plate it. Brown crocodile, black crocodile, natural python.

Andy: (laughing)

Leo: Orange python, turquoise python, red python, Cerise pink python, you know you want it ladies.

Rene: Cerise.

Andy: I want to show off how much money I have, I'm buying the watch edition but then sending it to these guys to have it gold plated. I'm going to buy rose gold and have them plate it normal gold.

Leo: It's only a thousand pounds!

Rene: Cerise is cherry but in French so you know it's fancy.

Leo: Yeah, fancy. It's only a thousand pounds. I don't know if that includes the watch. Oh wait a minute, no sorry. That's a little misleading. That's your deposit.

(laughing)

Kelly: Oh, jeez.

Leo: It's actually 1,997 pounds so it damn well include the watch.

Rene: Which is like a billion dollars Canadian.

Leo: Yeah, sure. It's a billion dollars Canadian.

Andy: I think I'm understanding why Apple wanted to capture this market, saying if someone is stupid enough to spend that much money, we want to get that money.

Rene: But now we know why they weren't wearing them with the dresses, they were all busy getting this done to their Apple Watches, they just didn't have them ready in time for the gala.

Leo: Look at the crystals...

Kelly: Oh, see. That's why nobody... that's why we haven't seen them yet.

Leo: Yeah, you didn't have enough bling.

Kelly: Mhm.

Leo: Wow.

Kelly: I think Rene nailed it.

Rene: Yep. J-Lo's going to show up with this next time.

Leo: Well there you go, goldgenie.com if you want it.

Rene: Let's take the site down TWiT army.

Leo: Take it down, let's take it down. We're going to take a break, come back with more. Somebody's asking in the chat room “Did you get your watch?” Yes I did, so Apple shipped early. Which was nice, I got it last week. So Lisa has hers, I have mine. The much anticipated benefits of being in a couple with matching Apple Watches, materialized briefly.

Rene: Watches with benefits?

Kelly: (laughs)

Leo: And I sent her heart beats and she sent me heart beats, and that's... that's the end of that. We haven't done it again.

Rene: My sister's arrive during the show.

Leo: Really? That's sport?

Rene: Yeah, she ordered the... well we got it, my mother and her got it for her for her birthday.

Leo: Oh, isn't that sweet.

Rene: Well I told this before, she works in a hospital and she was... their paging system is on Apple push notifications and right now she's using a Pebble.

Leo: Oh this would be perfect for her.

Kelly: Oh this is awesome.

Rene: Yeah but it has limited range and because this can be on the same wi-fi network and she can get all the pages it will be much easier then, because women suits again don't have pockets typically and you put it in a lab coat it's heavy, so she's going to... I think she's going to like it.

Leo: Nice. Our show today brought to you by Lynda.com. My good friend Lynda Weinman who has created such a great site for people who want to expand their minds, who want to learn. Who want to just kind of grow their skills at work and at home. If you're curious, if you're a problem solver, if you just want to make things happen. I want you to go to L-Y-N-D-A. Lynda.com. Whether you want to create an iOS app or watch app, redesign your website, master Excel, sharpen your photography skills. Everything you need is there for your curious mind. Some of the newer courses, Final Cut Pro 10, 10.2 Essential Training. Getting started with video production and editing, making your site Retina ready, please everybody take that now. I'm waiting. Up and running with Light Room 6, that just came out. Just came out. But that's the neat thing, Lynda works with the publishers, the software publishers so that when the new version comes out, they've almost always got a course ready so you can learn the new features and so forth. There's so much new stuff in Light Room 6, I think I'm going to have to take this. There's a Light Room CC class as well, a new installment of Code Clinic, focusing on Swift. Lynda.com. It's almost, it's an embarrassment of riches. You look at this and you go “I don't... this is cool, I want to learn this, but wait I want to learn this, but I want to learn this and I want to learn this.” It is so much fun, just if every night instead of watching Gilligan's Island reruns you watched one Lynda.com course, think how much smarter you'd be.

Leo: You're learning from the best to top experts in the field, but they're also great teachers. You see there they have transcriptions so you can search right within the text, find exactly what you're looking for. Stream thousands of courses on demand, there are more than 3,000. Learn on your own schedule at your own pace. They're structured you can watch them from beginning to end, or in bite size pieces. I love this stuff, should we define this new behavior as a property or define it as a method? Quiz time. Browse each course transcript, take notes as you go, download tutorials and watch them on the go, including accessing your iOS or Android device. So when you pay the monthly... this is so much fun, I want to do this right now. When you pay the monthly, the Swift course is what I'm looking at. This is really awesome. When you pay the monthly fee you get unlimited access to all of the courses, right now we're going to give you 10 days free so you really, I mean that's enough time to really get a sense of what's in there. Lynda.com/macbreak. I'll take the Swift course, Jason Howell take the audio production course, Jeff Needles will take the building a resume to get a better job course. It's all in there. Lynda.com/... that was a cheap shot. /macbreak. Try it today, 10 days free at Lynda.com/macbreak. Here's the Apple Watch. What?

Andy: In this economy cheap shots are definitely your best shot value.

Leo: I don't want to spend a lot of money on a shot, I want to go with inexpensive shot.

Andy: Just go to the warehouse store, get the off brand, the store brand shots.

Rene: No if you say them on air they're deductible Leo.

Leo: Every shot's deductible.

Rene: Yup.

Leo: Absolutely. Everything I do is deductible. Basically. Because I'm on air all the time, right? Bow ties? Deductible. Watches? Deductible.

Rene: It's deductible.

Leo: It's deductible! So here is... these guys, chipworks did... or actually I guess it's ABI research did an S1 de-capped. They took the chip, the system actually, it's the system on a chip in the Apple Watch and they stripped off the plastic packaging to see what's inside. It is, you know...

Rene: I've been cautioned about this. A couple times.

Leo: What, why?

Rene: Both this and the iSupply stuff because Apple is doing so much custom...

Leo: So custom, I understand.

Rene: That it's really hard to properly identify the components and price the components that they're using.

Leo: Yeah I don't buy the 87 box figure.

Rene: Some of these might not be accurately named I what I heard.

Leo: Right, right. Okay. Because you notice there's no... there's markings on some, but few. Not all of them. So the ones without markings, it's a good guess I guess. And boy it looks like they really destroyed the memory on the right there when they opened it up, I mean look...

Rene: It's all SRAM, there's no DRAM on this thing. It's nuts.

Leo: It's all SRAM, there's no DRAM. What does that mean?

Rene: I can't think of a computer that's had SRAM... SRAM as main memory before.

Leo: That's the static RAM that doesn't need to be refreshed.

Rene: It's just they rethought... I don't think Apple's, like Apple's hardware team gets a lot of credit. I don't think that their platform architecture team gets enough credit, because when you look at thing like the A8X and you look at... things like the S1 chipset, their... Apple was not a chip company very many years ago, and then Steve Jobs basically did what he did with a lot of things and said “I just want the best, just get me the best guys.” Didn't really know what they were going to do yet, but just said “I want the absolute best chip people.” And they hired a lot of really good people from AMD and other companies, and with the last year's iPads and iPhones and now with the Apple Watch, we're seeing some really innovative, really interesting, really powerful chips and the nicest thing is because they don't sell chips like a Qualcom or another company does, they don't care if they make money on the chip or not. There's no incentive to keep costs low or be profitable on the chips, they just want to make money on the whole package, so they are throwing unbelievable amounts of resources behind this stuff, and we get results like this which is really cool.

Leo: I mean think about this, this is a you know, 38mm, 42mm square on your wrist that contains, and admittedly maybe the name brands are suspect, but what the actual function of these things is is real, you got your Wi-Fi Bluetooth and NFC chip, you've got an accelerometer and a gyroscope, you've got an NFC signal booster, an NFC controller, as you said, 4 gigs of static RAM, not dynamic RAM. That means... that probably helps with battery I would imagine, you don't have to refresh the RAM. The main processor is right in the middle there, there's a PMU, a memory manager. The touch controller. The wireless charger, that's on the bottom there. I don't know what NXP is. And then 8 gigs of flash memory, it's pretty remarkable in a thing the size of a postage stamp.

Rene: It's a computer on a chip. Which is a wonderful idea too.

Leo: What a world we live in.

Rene: Yup.

Leo: It's miraculous. You know, you've just got to admire that.

Rene: And you see like... you see the results with that because people originally were like “Well why are you going to 64 bit, it's meaningless? There's no 4GB of RAM but they get the faster instruction set, they get hardware accelerated encryption, we get all these benefits and then they get to produce stuff like this because they're making so much RMIP. It ends up being a virtuous cycle for them I think.

Leo: Chipworks says that the accelerometer gyroscope is six axis.

Rene: Mhm.

Leo: I don't know... I mean, obviously that's two better than four axis.

Rene: It was always six axis but my understanding is that it's more integrated now than it used to be.

Leo: In the iPhone 6 and 6+ there was a six axis sensor and a Bosh 3 axis accelerometer. But here it's six axis all for the single component for both. This is amazing. And of course battery life benefits too when you get this kind of tight integration. You don't need as much power.

Rene: That's all Jony... the other Johny, Johny Srouji's team which is really good.

Leo: Yeah, wow. You know the only thing that has markings, the Broadcom radios have markings, it looks like the accelerometer and gyro sensor have markings. The... you know, not much else. The Apple chip has a marking. APL 0778. Flip chip bottom. So we're looking at the bottom of the chip. Wow.

Rene: Yeah it's great design work.

Leo: It's just... it's neat to see this.

Andy: Yeah, it's... I... this is the sort of stuff that gets me really really interested, not the chamfer angles, and not the...

Leo: Right.

Andy: The lab in which...

Kelly: Mhm.

Andy: It's like... and so much of this is based on extensions in printing technology believe it or not because they have to find a way to deposit things on a surface on a really really really fine scale and was years ago, like five or six years ago, but someone in the chip making industry was telling me about how they feel as though... they are people who work in this business that feel as though they have a direct line to photo engravers, people who design money, people who even the back to Gutenberg because it's all about how thin a line can be lay upon a surface. And apparently there are people in two communities that feel as though there's a lot of overlap between the two, and just you think about how many transistors are on that one square of metallic gray in the middle of that.

Leo: It's amazing.

Andy: And you just, you're looking... you think that you're a caveman trying to figure out but that's not really possible.

Leo: Oh yeah. I can't believe humans can do this.

Andy: This is an aerial, this is aerial look at a...

Leo: It's a city.

Andy: At a city. It's kind of... this isn't the...

Leo: It's amazing.

Kelly: Mhm.

Leo: Do you have one Kelly?

Kelly: I do not.

Leo: So it's just me and Rene here, sitting here with our Apple Watches.

Kelly: Yes. It is not for lack of desire, I... it just turns out that I'm a unicorn by being a Mac user on a budget so...

Leo: The only one, huh?

Kelly: I'm the one, yeah. I just got a new laptop, I have... I went for the 13” Retina with the force touch.

Leo: Yeah, I bought one too, I love that.

Kelly: And the force touch makes me so so happy.

Leo: Yep.

Kelly: And so I have that, and then at my house it's alternating years for cell phone upgrades so I'm in line later this year I'll get the 6s or whatever it ends up being.

Leo: You're going to be glad you waited, because a 6s is going to be so good.

Kelly: Yeah.

Andy: Yeah.

Kelly: Yeah I'm on whatever...

Rene: That's what the “S” stands for.

Leo: So good.

Kelly: So good! I'm on whatever the track is called, some people call it the evolution track, as opposed to the revolution track.

Leo: I like it.

Kelly: Or on tick-tock I'm on the tock, whatever you want to call it. I'm on the S Track so I got a 4s and then you know, and then I ended up on the 5s and now I will be on the 6s so... and it's mostly because I see the camera being the big improvement and I use my camera constantly. So I decided to eventually switch to the S Track. But there's always one at my house, so if I need something off of 6 for whatever reason, Mr. Kelly's got one, I can always pick up his and try something if I need to, so...

Leo: Do we think there will be force touch on the S?

Rene: That's a rumor.

Leo: Boy I would love that. That would... that wold make me say “Oh crap I have to upgrade.”

Andy: It's such a... a year from now we'll look back on everything that Apple released in late 2015 and 2016 and say “Yep, we should have seen that when we saw the first force touch device on the Apple Watch, how they could apply that to damn near everything else.” It really is one of the most exciting things that Apple is doing for the past five or six years that's hardware related.

Leo: It's almost as important really as multitouch.

Rene: It's multitouch made multi-dimensional.

Kelly: It's... yeah.

Andy: We're also facing the dilemma where we have to start to figure out what does force touching mean? Because we understand what a tap means, we understand what a tap and hold means, we understand what a double tap means. We have to all agree that when you tap and force touch on something, that means one thing and one thing only.

Rene: You're angry Andy.

Andy: Because if you have to learn... if we have to learn what force touch means on every single different app, that's a feature that we won't be using. I was looking at a message thread about... now that the early people have had their watches for a couple weeks now, now they're finally discovering things that they weren't able to figure out at the very beginning, and most of the time when someone tells, “Hey did you know that you can do this?” “How do you do that?” “Well you have to hold, and then force touch.” Like people are not discovering what happens when you force touch something, and that might indicate... that might point to more education or Apple needs to create a standard of here's why people... here's what people expect to happen when you force touch on something.

Leo: I confess, I was a little confused. When I first started sending my heart beat to Lisa, I would press too hard, I don't... I thought like oh you have to... here I'll do it.

Rene: Long press versus force touch is an interesting interface, clearly.

Leo: Yeah. I thought oh you have to press hard to get your heart rate into there. And so I was pressing hard, and what I was getting was an interface and no, I don't want that. So you have to re-learn that you just... you just put your hand on there lightly.

Rene: On the Apple Watch it's a right click, but on the Macbook they do a lot more with it and because it's a bigger surface and the iPhone is theoretically a bigger surface and the iPad is an even bigger surface, you'll probably have a lot more options as well and it becomes those things almost... it becomes interface depth where you want to put the stuff that's most important for everybody at the top where you need almost no discoverability. Like the most important information on a website. And as you go deeper, the features are still important, otherwise they shouldn't be there. But they're not necessary to the interface because fewer people are going to automatically discover them. Almost like the second tier of information on... again on a website. And you want to sort of build that feeling into people, so like for example you can force touch on the emoji to change the face from yellow to red or to change the heart from red to blue or purple. It's not a necessary thing to do, but if you one day push too hard because Fitts's law which means people are going to automatically press harder than they need to sometimes, you will discover that. It's a nice bonus. Almost like you got a prize for playing around with the interface. Whether that works again like to Andy's point about what that means on a trackpad or on a bigger device, I don't know but so far I think on the Apple Watch, being able to just do one thing, that right click, I think people will learn that. Not easily, but they'll learn that over time.

Andy: Yeah.

Kelly: I think it's also going to become... go ahead.

Andy: Go ahead Kelly, I'm sorry.

Kelly: Well it's going to become... it's going to have to become something where what that means gets sorted out. Because like right now there's not a lot of apps available that are using force touch, even on the Macbook. For me the greatest upgrade, I keep looking over there because it's right over there, for me the greatest thing about it is that because the entire thing presses and it's no longer the diving board of the really impossible pushing at the top and all of the clicking really has to happen at the bottom of the trackpad, for me with my teeny hands it's been really nice because I am able to leave my hands on the keyboard and navigate with my thumbs and even click right up using the tippy top of the trackpad, which is even more convenient.

Rene: Yeah.

Kelly: So...

Andy: Yeah.

Kelly: Because I started on... the first Apple laptop I had was a Powerbook. And on the Powerbook there was this whole vast no-mans’ land between the trackball, which had the button at the bottom and then the keyboard up at the top, so I got used to sort of having to maneuver that and it's so much more convenient now and I can get so many more things done, it's just that with the force touch, there's not a lot available in force touch right now, so as people sort out... like Rene is talking about what those interactions are going to be down there on that second click, that's when it's going to get really interesting, sort of like when it turned out that right click was becoming more common in Mac OS and people had to sort out like what do you put in the right click versus what goes up in a menu command and what sorts of things do you want to be able to interact with while you have the mouse right there on the thing? So I think there's going to end up being sort of an evolution of that interaction and on the watch it's pretty straightforward because there's a little bit more limiting factor of the tiny screen.

Andy: Yeah.

Kelly: So if I could force touch the home button on my iPhone and program that to be something, that would be awesome.

Andy: Yeah, and it's interesting to look at how, again the difficulty of educating people on a brand new thing. We often praise Apple because they're really really good at having a really good first flight out of the box experience, but there's also the need to have some depth, things that are... it needs to also be easy to use two or three months after you have it.

Kelly: Mhm.

Andy: And it's bad if you take away features for the sake of simplicity without adding depth that people can discover later on. It's okay to tell people that here is a video, here is an instruction manual, here is nine books you'll be able to download for free that walks you through how to do things because they'll be... you'll be... they'll be confused for the first couple of days but it will result in a much richer experience. And then going back to the first Mac, you think... and that's a good example about what does the... what does the right button do? It was a very explicit choice when they were designing the lease in the Macintosh, that mice before then have had lots of controls and lots of surfaces on them, no we're going to cut this down into just one button because people have never used a mouse before, we're just going to confuse them if we put lots of buttons on it, famously this was a keyboard that didn't even have any cursor keys because well you've got the mouse, and plus we don't want to clutter it with lots of keyboards. But then soon enough, you start to have the ability to right click on things and soon enough you start to add function keys and cursor keys because this is the sort of stuff that leads to a richness of experience. But I do, at the same time, think that I don't think that people would have figured out the Mac as well as they did in the first year if they... if they had been forced to swallow the idea of here's what a graphical user interface is for the first time, here's what a mouse is for the very first time. Here's what icons and overlapping windows do for the very first time. So it's interesting to me to think about what they will do, not... certainly not this year, but next year. Not only will there be new Apple Watch hardware, but they might decide to say that now that we have a generation of users who understand how to use Apple Watch, we might be able to add some stuff to it that won't confuse people on their first day, but now that we look back on it we can add some more richness to the experience by adding this one extra standard control that can pop up pretty much everywhere.

Leo: How is force touch different from just pressure sensitive?

Rene: It's a form of pressure sensitivity, with typical pressure sensors like a Wacom tablet, there's sort of an intermediary layer that some people think gets in the way of the display, it's debatable. With this, it's a different sort of technology that is detecting it. It's again, it's based on that sandpaper sort of forced feedback, and it lets them do different... so you can assign very different values to it, but because of the taptic engine working with it, it can also provide different kinds of feedback. Where a pure pressure sensitive engine isn't...

Leo: You need both.

Rene: Yeah. Isn't giving you tactile feedback to describe the sensitivity.

Leo: Look at this, this is a couple of parents who shared their newborn baby's heart beat using the Apple Watch with family and friends. It's pretty amazing.

Rene: To Andy's point too, I mean...

Leo: What a birth announcement huh? That is... that is kind of, I'm going to tear up a little bit here.

Rene: It's so sweet.

Kelly: Oh great.

Leo: Or maybe it's just creepy, I don't know.

Andy: (laughing)

Rene: To Andy's previous point too, OS 10 has a terminal. You know, most people never have to see it but if you want it you can go there. Apple Watch has a home screen and it's not the primary interface, they take you to the watch face instead, but if you're used to iOS you can go to the home screen. Some of those might get deeper as we go on, some of those might be training wheels that they shed because now you're used to newer... maybe natural language gets so good you never need them anymore, maybe they figure out some other interface but...

Leo: I do find I use Siri more than I do touch because... it's... you know. Interface with a little mini icon, it's just too crazy for me.

Andy: That's absolutely my experience on Moto 360 too, I use voice for pretty much everything that I want to do with it.

Leo: Yeah.

Rene: It's a safety valve that's there in case you need it, basically.

Leo: Yeah.

Rene: You can go back to using it like an iPhone if you really need to. Same way you can go back to using a Mac like a command line if you really need to.

Andy: Yeah.

Leo: Yeah.

Andy: I reminded myself of something I did want to say in response to what Kelly was talking about, that we all too often ignore the fact that this is still a $350 gadget for the cheap one, for the least expensive one of these is $350, and that's a lot to ask for somebody to take a complete flutter for something they haven't tried before and mean I wouldn't even say that Apple has a problem compared to other ones. There's a Mother’s Day promotion on Motorola.com where if you want to buy a Moto 360, it's $70 bucks off, but even with that it's $170-$180, which is a lot of money to spend on a gadget that people aren't convinced they need yet. So, I mean, this extends to laptops, this extends to phones, this extends to tablets, and it's something that's important not to lose sight of that we can say that the iPad Mini is a really superlative piece of technology, it's a wonderful thing to have, but at $400 a lot of people have to ask themselves, “But what the hell am I going to do with it and what kind of results is it going to deliver to me for $400 that I won't get off of a $70 Kindle, or even just simply not having it?”

Leo: On the other hand, if you've got the discretionary funds...

Andy: Yeah, no, I mean no-

Leo: I think Grueber said it right, let's no knock it, it's fun, it's a toy, but it's a fun toy.

Andy: But who's knocking it?

Rene: It's a watch!

Leo: I'm knocking it. I'm just saying.

Rene: The iPad is my mom’s main (unintelligible)

Leo: Like you said, it's not a necessity, it's a luxury.

Andy: Part of the long conversation we should have about all technology is accessibility.

Leo: Yes.

Andy: And I would like to think that I'm broad minded enough, I'm speaking for myself, to not only appreciate how well designed the 12 inch MacBook is for $1300, but also to appreciate that Samsung and other makers are making hella great notebooks for $200 and $250, and it bums me out sometimes when I see certain people or certain blogs or certain places say “Oh look at this, it's made out of plastic and it only has a Mobility processor and hey look, nice clunky VGA adapter on there you piece of junk!”. You know, it's about the race to the bottom for these people, they don't understand design and elegance like, yeah but there's people that don't have $1300 or don't have $900 for the cheapest portable Macintosh, no matter how well it's designed, no matter how much it earns every dollar of that, and I do feel as though the $900 MacBook Air does earn every dollar of that. I'd like to have it, I can't have it because I don't have a $900 to spend on this but it's nice for people that do have $200-$250 to spend, what's wrong with them having a nice notebook too, they don't care if it's made out of plastic.

Leo: Yeah.

Kelly: Well, I've talked about that too a number of times, and that's technological honesty in the fact that a lot of people, once you get away from sort of the “on paper” kind of specs, what you end up with is a lot of people for whom an iPad would be a really great computer. They don't need an iMac necessarily, and may not even need the full keyboard and everything of a MacBook if it's the occasional email that they're sending. A keyboard case even, for a lot of people, is all they really need. Like my dad’s primary computer now is a tablet.

Leo: Yep, my mom too.

Kelly: I don't even remember what it is-

Rene: My mom too.

Kelly: -my mother in laws Windows XP laptop that I kept running for her as best I could, is no more because a couple of years ago we got her an iPad for Christmas and it makes her so happy because she can do things on it she couldn't do on the laptop because with Face time she can talk to her grandkids in Alaska, and she can do all kinds of things that she was doing before and it's so much more portable and it's way easier for her to use, and she doesn't have to call me near as often because something is going weird with it. So it's really nice to have that, and I know a lot of people who once they sat down and went, “This is really what I need out of my computer”, it turned out that an iPad was fine.

Andy: Yeah.

Leo: Or a Chromebook, I sent a lot of people to iPads and Chromebooks.

Kelly: Yeah, like a Chromebook is a great way, and if you're somebody who does in fact need the keyboard, for whatever reason or it's just a strong preference, like a Chromebook is a really good way to go! That was part of the, one of the contenders when we were looking at getting my mother in law something new for Christmas was “Well, do we just get her a Chromebook because she's used to having a laptop where you open it up and there's a screen up here and the keys down here?” And I said, “You know, an iPad might be easier”, and it turned out that that was the way we went, but it could have turned out the Chromebook way and I get the feeling that more of my family, as their computers hit the decade mark or more, when those things finally give up for whatever reason, I think that they're going to end up on something like a Chromebook or and iPad just because they sit down and go, “This is what I do with it, and I don't need all of that stuff.” Sort of the megahertz race is over now for a lot of people and if they sit down and really go “This is the thing I need”, then they really end up with something that makes them totally happy but you know maybe five years ago wouldn't have been the same decision because they would have gone, “Oh, I need the computer because I need all the gigahertz, and there's got to be the ram, and I need hard drive, and you know, whatever.”

Leo:  Yeah, nobody talks about that anymore do they? That conversation is over, thank God.

Kelly: Yeah, and it's so much nicer now as a result.

Leo: So what is Kelly's next phone going to have in it? It's going to have, so we Force Touch, it's going to have a little bit faster processor, do we know anything about the camera, like how much better the cameras going to be, is it?

Rene: There's the Linx rumors, you know Grueber talked about it a few months even before the Linx thing was announced that they were going to start doing-

Leo: It's kind of like a ray tracing?

Rene: -I don't know if it's exactly like what HTC.. No, it gives you depth because they're off set lenses so it gives you depth information and once you have depth information you can start doing a lot of interesting calculations.

Leo: Ah, I love that idea although it never materialized-

Kelly: That would be fun!

Leo: -in the M8 or the M7 (unintelligible)

Rene: No, they tried though, I give them points for trying.

Leo: They tried.

Rene: Yeah.

Leo: But of course, I think that if Apple would do something with that I-

Rene: They have a lot of camera freaks there, they even hired a Nokia camera freaks so (unintelligible)

Leo: It's all about software.

Kelly: Yes!

Andy: That's part of like what they're getting by having such a hefty processor inside that machine. They don't have to necessarily beef up the lens, they don't necessarily have to beef up the sensor, they could just simply say, we have enough, we can take five pictures in a really fast period of time, and then we could combine them in interesting ways that will totally remove all forms of iSO grain. We can do synthetic sharpness, we can do  synthetic wide dynamic range. There is so much they can do, I mean there is a, my Android phone is not a particularly good, it’s not a bad one but not a particularly good one, the camera is very average, but then Google pushed out an update to their camera app that really turbo charged their HDR mode, so that it doesn't look like HDR at all. It's fast enough that you can use it as your default camera mode, and now I find that it's good enough that it will take a picture that is at least in the same ballpark as what an iPhone will take and it's even better when you take it back and put it into the Photos app, or put it into Lightroom, and do a little bit of tweaking to it, and so that is really where the meat is. I like my, the Lumia 1020, I thought the 40 mega pixel image sensor with the real flash were wonderful, wonderful things but it's starting to look very clear that all you need is a decent sensor, probably from Sony, and then just simply add as much of the back end of that as possible, because it doesn't matter what numbers come off of the image sensor, what matters are the pixels that you put onto the screen afterwards.

Kelly: Mhm.

Rene: Such a nice camera.

Leo: Still 8 mega pixels-

Kelly: I'm so excited.

Leo: -or will they...

Andy: Yeah, I love it. I sometimes carry that yellow camera around just because of the mega pixels.

Leo: That's 41 mega pixels.

Rene: Yeah, it's huge.

Andy: And it works, the damn thing works, it's not like a gimmick!

Leo: I still think my Galaxy s6 beats it.

Rene: Well, the sampling is great because you're taking all of those mega pixels but no one really needs that big of photo, they just use all the information to down sample. Yeah.  

Andy: Well, but again even that was an interesting tweak. They weren't necessarily promoting it as a 40 mega pixel camera, they were promoting it as, here is a 40 mega pixel, basically, how about if you had a digital zoom feature that actually worked, where you could cut out an 8 mega pixel section of this that is as good as what an iPhone would shoot natively, although you didn't have to get quite that close to the lions cage at the zoo to get that picture.

Rene: Safety from lions on the new iPhone.

Kelly: Well, and I'm always excited about the new camera, because whatever they do with the camera in every new phone always ends up being better in low light, and I like to take a lot of pictures that are not necessarily in the full sunshine of day, and I live in Portland, where there is not a lot of full sunshine, period. So, for me, that's the thing that's always exciting is the low light stuff, and being able to get a picture, still get a useful photo, that I would not necessarily have been able to get before.

Leo: S6 does that-

Kelly: -And now that I've had enough of these phones-

Leo: so well.

Kelly:  -I can scroll back through my iPhoto library, because that's where I was keeping them, and I can see like, oh I took that picture with the 3G,-

Leo: You can tell, can't you.

Kelly: -like I can tell immediately which one that was.

Leo: Yeah, yeah.

Rene: And for Apple, I mean, the camera's what draws upgrades, if they want people to upgrade iPhones faster. I mean Tim Cook said it-

Leo: That's just Apple. I think everybody now, this is the smart phone, we might as well call it a smart camera with some phone capabilities.

Rene: Well, camera's a primary use for it, so, yeah.

Kelly: Yeah, it's a camera that makes phone calls, like, that's all mine is.

Leo: Yeah, well I don't think you're alone in that area.

Andy: I will say though, that I think that Apple's now at a point with the iPhone where they have to increase the mega pixel count. It's because there is no shortage of other phones that take much higher resolution pictures that are equally comparable to what an iPhone can take, only with the iPhone, you don't have the ability to crop it in a meaningful way and still have something that can fill a screen. I don't think it's a bad camera, I don't think it's a chintzy camera, but there was a time where there was an aggressively correct statement to be made that, “Look we're not in the mega pixel wars, we're in the take great pictures wars”, but now everyone else seems to have caught up and now you're getting 12 and 16 mega pixel sensors that take great pictures that if you put them side.. If they're not necessarily 100% as good as what's in an iPhone 6, they're so good that if you took a series of 10 pictures in 10 different locals, the iPhone would not necessarily win every single blind comparison test, and so it's starting to look as though it'd be nice to have more ability to crop down, and more detail in these pictures.

Leo: Let's take a break, when we come back lots more to talk about. It's really fun to have you here, Kelly, thanks for joining us.

Kelly: Sure!

Leo: From Kelly Guimont, Guimont. I don't know how to say it. @verso, that's all I need to say, macobserver.com. Her first time on so please be gentle! I'm just teasing. Rene Ritchie, who is never gentle, in fact he almost strangled me the last time I saw him.

Rene: That was completely voluntary, Leo, I had full consent.

Leo: I did, I volunteered for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu training.

Rene: And if I recall, I think you were choking me.

Leo: I think it was the other way around, in fact, I remember your friends saying, “How could you let Leo do that incredibly dangerous hold”?

Rene: I have trust in Leo.

Leo: You did, because I, you know, you tapped, you said “If I tap you, stop.” And you tapped me and I almost didn't stop.

Rene: You stopped a good 5 minutes after I tapped.

Leo: I almost didn't stop, so! I would have felt bad!

Andy: Welcome to this special episode of 50 Shades of Twit.

Leo: I would have felt really bad had I killed Rene Ritchie on our New Years Eve special, that would have been bad. Also with us, Mr. Andy Ihnatko, of the Chicago Sun Times. It's always a pleasure to have all of you here for MacBreak Weekly.

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Leo: I want the new iPad soon, but I guess we're going to probably wait till fall. It'll be like the normal release.

Andy: Yeah, slowly.

Rene: So, my boss just messaged me that he's shaved his arms to take photographs of his Apple watch because he's sick and tired of everyone with hairy arms taking photographs of their Apple watch.

Leo: I know, it's kind of gross! All of these hairy arms!

Rene: But I don't know if the idea of shaved arms is any better!

Leo: That might be.. And by the way, kudos to Serenity Caldwell who was the first to identify the tattoo issue, which Apple has acknowledged. And everybody quoted her research without giving her credit!

Rene: Well, the thing with Serenity that I lo, that I find is awesome is a lot of people would just report that and say Apple doesn't work with tattoos. She actually went out and tested it and said “It will work with these, not with this, this is what you have to look for, these are the work a rounds”.

Leo: She did the work.

Rene: Yes.

Leo: Is she sleeved?

Rene: No, but her boyfriend is.

Leo: Ahh.

Andy: Yep.

Rene: She had a high availability tattoos for testing.

Andy: She had a great tweet and says “Honey, let me, can I put my watch on my wrist and take pictures?” These are the costs of dating, of dating a high tech journalist.

Leo: Can I borrow your wrist? Does he, did he shave his arm for those pictures?

Rene: No, I think he's like that. But Kevin just told, I'm going to check his Instagram feed in a minute, but he's just shaved his arms so.

Leo: Wow.

Rene: There, the picture started, alright.  

Leo: Alright, what's his Instagram?

Kelly: He should really upgrade to waxing his arm, he's going to be better off, I guarantee it.

Rene: Kevin Michaluk.

Leo: Kevin, K-e-v-i-n M-i..

Rene: M-i-c-h-a-l-u-k.

Leo: M-i-c-h-a-l-u-k.

Rene: Yeah.

Kelly:  I tell you what, he may be okay with it now, but in two days...

Leo: OOo, It's going to itch.

Kelly: It's going to itch so bad.

Leo: I know how that is, don't you? He didn't shave his arm, they're all hairy!

Rene: I guess maybe that , that one hasn't maybe uploaded or not yet, but I'm staring at his latest picture and it's, it's I don't know.

Leo: Oh, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin.

Rene: It's more aerodynamic now I guess.

Leo: I think he needs to go with laser treatments.

Kelly: Oh, that would be a good way, too.

Leo: Yeah, be nice and smooth.

Rene: Or a sandblaster. Well, he's a big watch fanatic, like he has a bunch of Panaris, and Omegas, and Dayton, and like Rolexs and..

Leo: So, I'm following Kevin Roses Watchville on Instagram, and I think a lot of these wrists are, I'm going to ask Kevin if he's going to shave his wrist.

Rene: Oh, he said he just posted the picture of his wrist.

Leo: Alright, I'll go back. See, these are beautiful watches, but I agree you get a little bit distracted by the hair, by the hair. Although it looks like Kevin's like wearing, no, see that's kind of gross, that's kind of gross. I don't wanna see that. Yeah, yeah, closeup of hair. There, somebody put it on a leaf. Problem with the Apple watch is you have to have it on a wrist otherwise, you know, it's non-functional.

Kelly: Mhm.

Leo: Well, it's not non-functional but it, but it...

Rene: You got a pin code..

Leo: It asks you for a pin code every three seconds, yeah. Here's Kevin actually assembling a Audemars Piguet watch. He's going to be on the Screen Savers this Saturday, the new Screen Savers,  talking watches. Alright, so your Kevin has, let’s go back.

Rene: Yeah. A lot of Kevin's in watches, I wonder if that's a thing?

Leo: Ah, must be. If your name is Kevin, there it is. Oh man, that's worse! Noooo Kevin, that was a bad idea!

Kelly: Oh, Kevin.

Andy: I'm sorry I don't have it handy, no pun intended, but a couple of years ago as like a way to get me to open a box with a PR thing, and a company sent me like a Halloween store like Zombie head, and a Halloween store like severed arm, and I gave away the head, but I kept the arm, thankfully, because now I use it every time I need to like photograph or test out a watch, it's now strapped to the severed arm.

Leo: I have just-

Kelly: That is awesome!

Rene: That is CrackBerry Kevin.

Leo: I now have decided that I prefer fur.

Rene: The chat room is asking, yes that is CrackBerry Kevin now no longer wearing a Blackberry watch.

Leo: Oh, interesting.

Rene: Yeah, sad times.

Leo: Did they have a watch, the Blackberry watch?

Rene: Yeah, the inPulse. The watch that Eric Migicovsky made, before he made the Pebble, was the Blackberry inPulse.

Leo: Oh, I didn't know that.

Rene: Yeah.

Leo: Huh.

Rene: Eric's history of connected watches.

Leo: Alright, so, I'm sorry, back to the twelve-

Kelly: Back to Wookiee's wearing watches.

Leo: -Yeah, Wookiee's wearing watches. See, if you're a Wookiee it's okay.

Rene: It's just, some of us are hairy too Leo, it's just the way it is.

Leo: We're all, well it turns out men have hairy arms. Who knew?

Rene: You need it to keep warm.

Leo: I haven't spent much time looking at it. I never thought of myself as hairy, but I am actually. Looks like Robin Williams down there.

Rene: A baby sasquatch.

Leo: Baby sasquatch. So now, I don't know, but I think it's preferable to razor bumps, don't you?

Kelly: Probably.

Rene: Well, maybe laser, I don't know. Or tattoos, get the sleeve.

Kelly: Yeah, or wax, like.

Rene: Tattoo arm hair on, that way it...

Leo: Jason Howell is flicking back and forth, a little A B comparison.

Andy: Once more, from the horn.

Leo: Please, 12.2 inch iPad available this fall, with Force Touch, right?

Rene: Yeah.

Kelly: Yes.

Leo: One of the rumors is type C connectors, that would make me really happy.

Rene: It's interesting because, as much as people don't like this idea, the lightning team was integral to developing Type C. And if you look at her, it's a very lightning like connector. And whether it gives Apple everything it wants to get out of, because the Type C connector doesn't do everything that Lightning does, Lightning is auto-reassignable and it can carry many more types of signals, so it would limit sort of the amount of data and the types of data and the versatility of what you could pull off of the iPad. But if it's big enough maybe Type C and Lightning, or maybe they could do..

Leo: That was one rumor I heard was that Type C and Lightning, yeah.

Kelly: Does anyone remember the riots in the street when they went from 30 Pin to Lightning in the first place?

Leo: Yes, that was me!

Kelly: Do you really not think this is another torch and pitchfork situation waiting to happen?

Leo: Yep, I was carrying a torch! Yep. Mhm. I was very upset because I didn't want to buy all new connectors and docks, and stuff like that!

Kelly: Well, remember we had the 30 pin for what, like 10 years, like actually 10 years or something by the time they had settled on it. So yeah, it would be a rough transition. Especially because-

Leo: Now my house is saturated with Lightning, but now I have, there's C.

Andy: They're going to have a real problem on their hands if they truly sell a 12.5 to 13 inch iPad that can only be described as one that's for professional use and they still say “By the way, getting files on and off this is still going to be a rough night in hell, unless you're trying to get files to and from another Apple device. Because we're still not going to give you access to the system, we're still not going to let you plug anything into it, we're still not going to let you have memory cards on it. That's going to be a real “So why the hell am I trying to buy this thing?”. It's nice if the only thing that I ever take pictures with is my phone, it's nice if the only place I get files from is from iCloud, but there are times where, even on my Android phone, there have been times where the fact that I could simply attach any USB device to it and get access to the files has been a lifesaver, and fortunately you don't need your life saved every single day, or every single month, but there are times in the year where you are dead unless something saves your life, and you're glad you had that lifesaver.

Leo: Which would be faster, the new MacBook or the new putative new iPad Pro?

Rene: Faster in what way? I personally think that Apple's chip sets at that low power, and that size, are more interesting than Intel's, but Intel's provides a huge amount of compatibility. Andy's point though was so exciting for me, you look at what Apple's done now and they basically have Backboard and Springboard running on the Apple TV, on the iPhone, on the iPad and on the Apple Watch and you have, I don't know if it's still called Front Row on the Apple TV, but then you have Springboard on the iPhone and iPad, and you have Carousel on the Apple Watch, but they're all the same foundation, and it makes me wonder if you can have that foundation on the iPad Pro, and maybe eventually any iPad, and have a different layer on top of a layer that allows you to do more things but doesn't sacrifice the simplicity that lets, you know, it be like our parents favorite computer ever, but for people like Andy or people who do want to make better use of that hardware, not just a file system, but like an iPad OS, the same way we have Watch OS, where whatever it's named will just be a deeper, richer experience because they cut down a lot, they trimmed down a lot for the  Apple Watch, why not expand up a bit for a larger glass surface.

Leo: It could, right, they could do that, you could give you and iOS file system and stuff.

Andy: Well, you'd have to add some things to make it a better value proposition. You can't, if Apple felt as though it made sense for them to simply make another iPad only make it a bigger one, they would have done it already, I think.

Leo: Right.

Andy: I think that if they're making a 13 inch iPad it's because here is an opportunity that we can prosecute that we can't prosecute with a 9.7 inch iPad Air right now. But it is an interesting calculus because now you're basically saying, here is a really, not just a Windows notebook with a touch tablet, but a really nicely made one, one that can really be your complete travel computer without making any adjustments whatsoever, assuming you're running Windows, but if you're on planet Earth, you're likely to be running Windows instead of Mac OS.  And here is the exact same amount of money hypothetically, here is a 12.9 inch iPad with some limitations, and you have to basically ask somebody, you have to figure out how somebody is going to be making that judgment. If it has some of the other features that are being rumored like actual true pressure sensitivity, really tight integration with a Bluetooth pressure sensitive stylus it's, there's the argument to be made that it wouldn't be a competition to anyones Notebooks, not even Apple's. It would be for the artist who really needs to communicate visually and in an analog fashion, that you can do things with pressure sensitivity in a large screen, that you could not do with no pressure sensitivity and a 9.7 inch screen. I can't think of, there are very few other products that Apple has on the dartboard right now that I can't imagine, they have so much flexibility on them. If they decide for themselves, “Here is the sort of person that we're marketing to, here is the sort of need we are trying to fulfill”, they could make that 12.9 inch tablet do pretty much whatever they want to do so it's going to be a nice surprise type thing to everybody whenever it ships.

Leo: I like the idea of both Type C and Lightning, but it doesn't feel like an Appley thing to do. And if  Type C, then they go Type C in the phones too, right?

Andy: They did, remember the Air 2 does not have the really useful mechanical switch on the side that lets you lock the screen rotation and I don't, I've not spoken to anybody with knowledge that has told me of any functional reason why they took that off. Which leaves me with at least the hypothesis that, they just thought it was a piece of clutter that was not necessary that was duplicated by software, and if it's possible to remove clutter, you want to remove clutter. So you're right in that I find it hard to imagine them willfully putting two data points that do, two data points which duplicate so much of each other's functionality that way.

Leo: Couldn't you just put in an adapter, a Lightning adapter.

Rene: Yeah, a Lightning to USB-C adapter. It's the interesting thing about the USB-C like the problem with Thunderbolt was that it's PCI architecture and iOS devices, except for a little bit of stuff in the COMMS components, doesn't use PCI architecture. So, but USB-C doesn't really care, it's not based on PCI.

Leo: It's a beautiful thing, Type C's a beautiful thing. Speaking of beautiful things, here's Marcus Mariota. I don't know, is this the first Beats ad?

Kelly: Marcus Mariota.

Leo: Mariota.

Kelly: Sorry, he's a local guy.

Leo: No, yeah let's get it right. He's from Portlandian.

Kelly: Well, he played for Oregon.

Leo: Ah, he's a Duck.

Kelly: Yeah, he's a duck, well he was a duck until he was a Titan, I think was who drafted him-

Leo: Duck to Titan

Kelly: -second overall pick with Titans, yeah.

Leo: And he owes it all to his Beats headphones, and his amazing, sculpted pecks.

Andy: Okay, I had a terrible Beats headphones experience on Sunday because somebody, the person sitting 2 or 3 seats away from me on the red-line on the T, was wearing Beats headphones, and they're cheap, and they're crappily made, and they're incredibly leaky, and I know that that person had that music turned up all the way, but I swear it was too loud for even my ears to deal with even though I was sitting two seats away and I spent like 20 minutes of that ride looking over to my left and seeing that Beats logo on the side of those crappy, cheap, leaky headphones and saying “I hate Beats, and I hate whatever company, oh damn, Apple owns Beats.”

Leo: Oops!

Andy: I don't hate Apple, I still hate Beats.

Kelly: So, here is the depth of my knowledge on the Beats headphones, aside from Marcus Mariota doing sit-ups, is that they were being made in one place, there was one particular company that had been-

Leo: Monster made them initially.

Kelly: contracted to manufacture..

Leo: Initially Monster made them, and made very good ones. Then Beats decided, probably for financial reasons, to make them themselves, and didn't make very good ones.

Kelly: See, I heard it was the other way, that they started out crap, and then people realized, I'm paying $300 for these headphones and they're crap, and then they started to suck less. So, I probably have the..

Leo: I've heard it the other way but I don't worry, I don't. Now, by the way, I talked to Neil Young yesterday, it's a good triangulation if you get a chance to watch it.

Rene: That was awesome.

Leo: And he said, when I want more bass I listen to Beats. But, I think that's a tip of the hat to Jimmy Iovine or something.

Rene: In Age of Ultron, Bruce Banner is using Beats, and I think that's the last thing you'd put on the Hulk, right. You don't want a driving bass anywhere near him.

Kelly: No.

Leo: No, no. So that's a Beats Head o'hana celebrating a Hawaiian family.

Andy: You don't want to give him good headphones that he's going to break anyways.

Leo: Yeah, that's true.

Kelly: Well, that's true.

Rene: You want stretchy, stretchy headphones.

Leo: Yeah, can you get green Beats?

Kelly: Yes.

Rene: That'll be a tie-in I hope.

Kelly: The on ear you can. The thing I thought was interesting about the Marcus Mariota ad, was that they used his friends and family as the narration.

Leo: I know, it's beautiful, it's really quite beautiful.

Kelly: The reason, it's really great, I love it.  He's from Hawaii, and he played football in Oregon. The thing that I thought was really interesting about it, was that this ad dropped the day the NFL draft started, and so this ad was already live before Marcus Mariota had been drafted for anybody, so nobody at Beats knew that he was the number 2 over all NFL pick-

Leo: Ah, they just picked well.

Kelly: -This week in sports with a girl.

Leo: Girls like sports.

Kelly: That's true!

Leo: Lisa schools me in the NFL every single day.

Kelly: Well mostly I'm a basketball girl, but he's local so there's been a truck load of coverage about Marcus Mariota. Especially because he came up to Nike, which is just over there. Anyways, the thing I thought was interesting about it was the timing of the ad because they had to go put the whole thing together, and have it ready to go, and then released it before he was picked. So everybody knew he was going to be a high pick, nobody knew it was going to be number two, but everybody figured he was going to be, for having given up his last year of college eligibility to go be in the NFL draft, I thought it was very interesting that Beats put this out, because they already had the deal with him and it didn't matter where he ended up playing, and they still were going to go with it.

Leo: Somebody in the chat room is saying that you were right Kelly, the new Beats, the new studios are quite good. It was the older Beats, the Monster made Beats that were not so good.

Kelly: The thing I thought was interesting about the headphones specifically, since this is an ad for these wireless headphones that are the new thing they're trying to promote, is that you can adjust the cord on the back of them to make them fit a little bit better-

Leo: Yeah he showed that, yeah that's nice.

Kelly: -and I have never had a good experience with wireless headphones like that so I am very curious about these now, if nothing else, I would like to find out more about the fit on those and I think, since they are Beats, they would be part of the Apple headphone try-on thing that you can do in the stores now.

Leo: Don't know!

Rene: I have a pair, but I haven't seen them in the stores.

Leo: Don't know! We're still waiting for Apple to launch a Beats based music service, although the FTC, the Department of Justice, say they're looking into the fact that Apple's pushing aggressively to get the music labels to turn off free Spotify streaming. It was the free streaming that Taylor Swift didn't like on Spotify, it was the reason she pulled 1989 from Spotify. I guess Beats won't have a free tier? What's the deal here?

Rene: I mean, the problem here is that there's just, like you can't make up free on volume. There has to be some money at the end of the pipe. And people struggle with Spotify...

Leo: Right, but see Apple's in a unique position because they sell hardware, they sell, I mean, if anybody could make money on free, it would be Apple.

Rene: It's hard for Apple to get deals, and especially hard in the post iTunes days for Apple to get deals, because everyone's concerned that they're going to come in take over the market and take control. So, the terms that they're often asked for are not always the same as other companies, and one of the things that they're pitching is that they can help you build a sustainable business because no one wants, we remember this with all the plays for Shure, I think it was called, services where they ended up just shutting down, there wasn't enough business for them. So in my world, it would be great if there was some sort of free tier or cheap tier, and then people who really want high quality or they find something, something that was value added that was worth paying for, but the overall amount. There was a lot of services where a few people who are willing to pay for more can afford subsidize everybody on that service, and if they can sort of reach that balance, that kind of an offering, I think that would be good for everybody.

Leo: I don't think it has to do with making money, well, I mean ultimately it always does, but I don't think it has to do with the fact that they can't monetize free, I think it has more to do with, if you can kill the free tier on these other networks, you have a shot at moving people to Beats that paid Beats. If they're going to move to paid, than Beats is now in the mix, and that's the problem Beats has, it's so late to the game they were not able to garner many listeners who had already chosen one of the other competitors. But there are still a majority of listeners on Spotify and everywhere else, do not pay. If you kill the free tier you suddenly free all of those people to come to Beats. I think it's a very cynical move.

Andy: Well, I don't know about cynical. It's very complicated, I've spent the past day, like, trying to find out like how they, the industry's actually, they don't believe that giving away a product for free is in their long term best interest, and they haven't been trying to kill any of the free deals that they, any of the free services, because of course they have to make those deals in order for those services to actually exist. But they're looking for something that's better. So there's one argument to be made that's simply Apple saying “We know you hate this, we don't think this is a good idea either. We can help you to build into a model that there's always money coming into somebodies pocket every time that something streams.” But you're also correct in that, Apple's got nothing, they got nothing. All they have is potential here, where as Spotify is the FM radio of a couple of generations right now and the majority of those users use that service because it's free. So if Apple were to simply take away what a lot of people feel to be is the most handy feature of Pandora, of Spotify, of YouTube, of all these other movie channels, suddenly you're basically draining the water from the tanks of every competitor so that your boat will maybe float a little higher on the water compared to everybody you're going to be shooting against in the future. So it's, the big question that would remain though, is that, okay so magically we've got your magic, the music industry has their magic wand and now it's impossible to get music for free, does that mean “Well, I guess I've got no choice but I'm going to start spending $8 a month for the Apple music service or for other paid services”. Or do they simply say “Well, I guess I'm going to spend the next 23 minutes learning how to download music illegally, oh well!”

Rene: Yeah, very true.

Kelly: And, I think that there is a really important thing here and that is that if I were a free, well I am, I'm a free Spotify user. And if free tier went away,if I were to pay for anything I would pay for Spotify because I'm already there.

Leo: Oh, ah. Okay.

Kelly: So inertia I think is powerful.

Leo: But you have an iPhone with the Beats service already installed. There's a shot. I think this is why, I call it deeply cynical because there's a shot.

Kelly: Yeah, but if I'm going to have to pay..

Rene: It would just be in the music app, I don't really think there will be a Beats app.

Kelly: Yeah.

Andy: Like someone like Kelly, if they were to simply were to sign up for Beats because it's built in, they would lose all of the equity they've built over the past two or three or four years.

Leo: Play lists  and all that stuff, yeah.

Andy: Also, they know how it works. You really have got to push somebody away from something that they've been using for a while, that they like, and that to their frame of reference, works just fine.

Leo: Beats, by the way, is bundled into a number of Android phones including, I think, the Galaxy S6 came with Beats on it.

Kelly: Yeah, so the other thing about it is that the people, first of all the people who I know do pay, are paying for Spotify. I know people who have it for free, but everyone, I think, everyone I know who's paying for it, who's paying for streaming, is paying for Spotify.

Leo: Well, meet somebody who uses Google All Access.

Andy: Yeah, me too.

Kelly: Oh gosh, okay, so that's two people! The other thing about this that I think is sort of odd is, I feel like there is a piece of this story that we're missing, because we already know that Apple has a trigger happy anti-trust monitor breathing down it's neck all the live long day. So, how something like this could even be discussed in a conference room somewhere in Cupertino is beyond me. Honestly I feel like there is an important piece of this that we're not hearing, whether it's somebody is taking something out of context, or somebody is drawing the worst conclusion and sent it to somebody somewhere else and that that's where this is coming from, because it's not a full investigation yet, the impression I've gotten from what I've read so far is that there's sort of some, we're going to come around and ask some questions and kind of see if we can figure out what's really happening, then figure out if that's a problem.

Rene: It kind of feels like, if anything shady was going on, the rainbow bridge would open and Judge Denise Cote with her gavel would appear Thor like in the middle of Cupertino.

Leo: No kidding.

Kelly: Yeah, see, and that's totally like, you know the, like, they've got the jerky hall monitor following them around looking for the slightest infraction already.

Andy: At the same time, what the investigators are looking for is not, isn't Apple wanting to change the rules for everybody, it's wanting to change the rules for themselves. So if they simply tell these, if they were to insist to the music industry that, Look, we are one of the largest music retailers, we refuse to carry your stuff unless you offer Apple better terms than everybody else, or that you stop offering this product to competitors that we don't like”, that will get them in trouble, but if they simply sit them down and say “Here is the world of music as we understand it and we don't see a future in which any artist or any label can make money, so long as there's any place where people can stream music for free. And if Sony says “You know what, you've got a point there. I think that you, and because I believe in this world that you're creating I'm voluntarily deciding that we're going to end, or start to not renegotiate these contracts.” That's a lot iffier and given, again, given that they're Apple, but they're starting from zero on this new music service, given the upside to finding it out, maybe in the worst case, finding it out in court for a little while, at worst case, that's certainly a conversation that's worthy of Apple's time.

Kelly: But they're not necessarily starting out at nothing. The service is at zero right now, that's true, but they're starting with Jimmy Iovine in their back pocket, and Jimmy Iovine is the guy with-

Rene: Credit cards.

Kelly: -with the super ultra-mega Rolodex. Like, even people who aren't necessarily music people know his name.

Leo: It's so funny how Apple people, through the incantation, there's two incantations. Jimmy Iovine's Rolodex, all those credit cards. I don't buy it, I don't think that gives him much of a head start.

Andy: Well, all of, my only-

Kelly: Oh, but it does.

Andy: You go ahead, I'm sorry, complete your thought, I didn't know I was about to interrupt you.

Leo: No, it's your turn Andy.

Andy: Well, all I'm saying those are incredibly strong assets, that Apple, and Apple is very, very good at following through, and can make, again, they're very good at having that conversation that “Here's the world as we see it, and we believe that we can all have a really great future, but here are the things that aren't going to work for any of us.” That's another factor that really really in their favor. But to the person who, “I've got my Spotify subscription, I like it, I use it. There are a limits to what Iovine can do to make that user decide, that I'm going to stop using that thing that I really, really like and I'm going to switch to something else entirely. They would have to figure out what Spotify is doing wrong that I hate as a user, that I've always wished, wished, wished that someone would come up with a service that is better in these three ways.

Leo:  If clout in the music industry made a difference, Title would be rolling over everybody, and it's not. Jay-Z has as much influence I would argue, more, than Jimmy Iovine, and he's still not able to make Title work.

Kelly: There's a certain amount of it that is just, Jimmy Iovine has the ability to get people into a room. And when they initially launched the iTunes store, they didn't have that, they didn't have anybody. They were just, we're Apple-

Leo: They had Steve Jobs!

Kelly: -we're Apple.

Leo: Are you kidding, they had Steve Jobs who had more clout than anybody!

Kelly: That's true, but he wasn't a music guy. Jimmy Iovine is at least a music guy, he can get the right people in the room together to have a conversation. How that conversation goes is not up to him.

Leo: The music industry's filled with a bunch of guys who just want to make money. They don't give a damn about anybody’s Rolodex. They're going to do what makes the most money for them. And that's why Apple can go to them and say “You guys should really not go to the free tiers, you should not allow your albums on the free tiers, that's bad.”

Rene: Although there's spiteful people who don't always put money first on their agenda.

Leo: I know, they're all so evil.

Andy: I do think there's also a factor, in that if Sony or any other music publisher felt as though they were about to hand Apple an even bigger stick that Apple can beat them with, they would say “That's not a good long term thing.” I do believe sincerely, that inside these music companies, there's conversations saying “Maybe this is actually a good chance for us to actually consider about retrenching with Spotify, retrenching with free services because if we essentially give Apple a tool that we think will help them to kill off competitors, they're not going to say, “You know what, now that we're number one and we've killed off all the competition, guess what, we're going to negotiate an even better deal for you so you get to keep even more money.” It's going to be “We'd like some input over your album art design, because they just don't look good with our design guidelines.

Leo: I hope not, I hope not. Okay we're going to move on, a couple of quickies before we get to your Picks of the Week. What do you think of this Microsoft big play last week telling iOS developers “Hey with just a few simple tweaks you can get your Apple app on the Windows Phone, isn't that exciting?”

Rene: It helps porting and doesn't offer additional value yet, so until they can show that it's really valuable for you to spend even less time porting, it's going to be a hard sell.

Leo: I don't understand why they think that Android or iOS developers will be interested. I guess because you could write a universal app which would then be, and this is, by the way, what we're going to do, then would be Windows 10, Windows Phone and Xbox.

Andy: I disagree, for certain developers there's a certain conversation you can have that is very compelling which is “Sir and Madam, there's a bag of free money on the floor right there. It's not a life changing amount of money but it is free money, all you have to do is spend exactly 38 seconds picking it up and now you will have this free money.” If you can make that choice to a cert, offer to a certain amount of people saying, if we can basically detail some people for a day and a half to suddenly have a presence in the Microsoft store. If it's that easy, it doesn't matter that they're not really adding features to it, although it's possible for them to simply to add things like Xbox Live features to their code apps. It's-

Rene: It's better for games I think.

Andy: It's better for games because, again, that's the free money proposition. To me-

Leo: Well, there's also no native UI that you have to worry about, you know, that's why Cut the rope 2..

Rene: And this split attention thing isn't as big a deal on games.

Andy: The bigger problem for me is that, you don't have the, when you basically say “Use your same code and recycle it for multiple different platforms”,  you're basically saying “Don't improve it to take advantage of what Android can do, but iOS can't, or what iOS can do, but Windows can't.” You're basically saying lets have the same sort of bland Triscuit with the off brand peanut butter on top of it, and never do something better than that. So that's the difficulty.

Leo: Remember when American Airlines gave all the pilots iPads, because the pilots were getting sore shoulders carrying around these giant bags with all their flight maps, and their manifests, and all that stuff. They were literally getting injuries. Well, I don't know what went wrong.

Rene: Well, that wasn't an iPad story. The company that makes the app that shows them the flight plans pushed bad code.

Leo: Yeah, the app was bad.

Rene: That's sorta like, like the binder had a bad photo copy job, and they shoved a bunch of bad photo copies into the binder, you can't really blame the binder, it's the bad photocopies.

Kelly: Like the ring broke is not the same thing as the, yeah.

Rene: Well, this isn't even like the ring breaking, the iPad was perfectly fine, it's the app had bad code. To the company’s credit, I can't pronounce their name nor do I remember it,-

Leo: They took responsibility.

Kelly: Uh, Jepson, I believe.

Rene: -yeah, and they fixed it. Yeah, Jepson I believe. And they fixed it really quickly.

Leo: It did ground quite a few flights for a moment. The pilots would get on and say “Our iPad's broken, so..”

Rene: Jepson said it was less than it gets grounded during a typical thunder storm but you know, I don't, it's never best (unintelligible).

Leo: But that could be hundreds, that could be hundreds!

Kelly: Yeah. But I actually, I worked with a pilot at one point who was doing this and he said at one point he was somebody who used this Jepson stuff, the hard copy version of the map information. And he said, they keep talking about putting it on-line, and this was a few years ago, they keep talking about putting it on-line, and if they were able to do that so I could put it on an iPad and I didn't have to carry this Windows machine around with me, and all of the paper, then I would do this in a heartbeat. And so then I said, you know, if they're giving you a PDF, you can read this in your iPad here, this is how you do it. And so then the next day he went and bought an iPad and he was like, I don't have to take this thing with me on the plane with me anymore, and that's awesome. So according to him, even though the Jepson app may have been bad, for him it's a better experience to be doing it on the iPad even though it wasn't, even though in this case, it was sort of a problem. But, I actually get to see some of it that, because he showed me, this is what I get to do now instead of having this Windows machine, that every time, he said, I only open it when I'm on the plane, so as soon as I hit the tarmac I have to open it up, and make sure that it's got everything updated, so that it doesn't try to restart in the middle of a flight. So, not having to deal with any of that stuff, to him, I know that if I had sent him an email, he would have told me that this was completely a legitimate trade off in his mind. It was one map for one airport. I want to say it was-

Leo: Yeah, it was Reagan.

Kelly: Reagan International.

Leo: Yeah.

Kelly: And that it was that particular map, that if you had requested it within a certain window, it was giving you trouble. So overall, at least it's not like it was every map for Reagan or anything like that.

Leo: Well, it crashed the app though.

Rene: Yeah.

Kelly: Yeah.

Leo: And actually the fix was something every iPad owner is familiar with, deleting the app and reinstalling it.

Rene: Yeah.

Kelly: Right.

Leo: So you hold down the thing and it goes jiggle, jiggle, jiggle and that is all of your manifests, everything is going away, and then you put in a new one and (sigh). Jepson is a Boeing, is owned by Boeing company.

Andy: Airport 2015, “Passengers, our Apple genius has fallen ill. Does anybody know how to repair an iPad and can come to the cockpit with me.”

Rene: The genius emergency.

Leo: Ah, that's funny.

Andy: Dammit, I quit because I couldn't stand the stress. What makes you think that I'll be able to stand up to the stress today?

Leo: I'm a genius but I'm not...

Andy: I can't answer that for you, what I can tell you is that there are 214 passengers on here that wants to know, can you reset and restart and put it into recovery mode, without falling like a house of cards. What are you going to tell them, because I don't know what to tell them, sir.

Leo: Hey, I speak the DFU.

Kelly: I was going to go with, I speak SMS.

Leo: Well, at least we're all on the same wave length. Let's take a break, your Picks of the Week coming up in just a bit. I was thinking of shaving, you wouldn't mind if I shaved a little bit here.

Rene: I could use it, Leo.

Leo: You need a shave! I want to get you some Harry's.

Rene: I will only shave with Harry's, as a matter of fact.

Leo: In case people think we're making this up, I got a tweet the other day, yesterday I think. You can look in my tweet feed, twitter feed. Somebody said, you know, I've been hearing these ads about Harry's, I finally got it. I've never had a shave this good, it was amazing. Look, we've got to shave. Everybody shaves. You shave your arms, you shave your face. Maybe we should send Kevin one of these.

Rene: Brilliant.

Leo: No more razor bumps, Kevin.

But Harry's, man, this is the place. So why is Harry's better? Well a few things. First of all, they sell direct to you. They actually make their own blades, they bought the factory in Germany. They asked when they first started, where do you get blades? We want to sell better blades. There's two factories in Germany, in the whole world, that make the best blades. So they bought one of them, they own it! Now their blades are engineered for performance, and because they're selling direct to you, they're half the cost of a blade in the drug store. Fusion blades run about $4 each. Harry's is about half that. They deliver direct to you. And it all starts, by the way, with the Harry's kit. So, and these are a great deal too. This is a Trueman kit. You can get this on-line. Oh that's a nice, I like the orange handle. They also have Winston's. Trueman Kits $15, Winston Kits $25 with a metal handle. But you get the handle, you get three Harry's blades. That's almost a month’s worth right? I change them, actually Harry's so affordable now I change my blades every few days because I love having a nice fresh blade. But you know, I'm the kind of guy that buys an Apple watch, so what do you expect? This is the travel head. I love this! You can put it in your dopp kit. They don't mention this, but I always do. And of course, the Harry's gel. You can get the cream, which I use, or the foaming shave gel. Now that's $15, but I mean that's a great deal to get you started. And incidentally we'll take $5 off when you go to Harrys.com and you use our offer code MACBREAK. So now $10 with the Trueman kit to get started, and they come in four different colors, and you can choose the cream or the foaming shave gel. I like the cream, but some people don't, so I guess you'd have to figure that out. Harry's has some new stuff too, look I just got my, this actually, we need this in the house because Lisa has Harry's too, and she keeps stealing my razor. So I have a Harry's razor holder. Look at that, it's milled aluminum and it's got my name on it so there's never any question who's razor Lisa's stealing, she's stealing mine. There ya go! Look at that! Isn't that nice?

Rene: The un-boxing is amazing, they take such care in the packaging.

This is the Apple of razor blade companies, I really think so. Look at, this is, it's an aluminum cube, it's gorgeous. And they have a little rubber ring so it doesn't slide around on your bathroom sink.

Andy: I thought I was packing the charger for my Apple watch, it turns out I just have my razor stand. I'm screwed.

Leo: Oh shoot! H-a-r-r-y-s, Harrys.com, it is the best shave you'll ever get, and I want you to start right now with $5 off when you use the offer code MACBREAK on your first order. Harrys.com offer code MACBREAK.

Andy: Kevin says he just used your code, Leo.

Leo: What? Good.

Rene: Kevin said he just used your code.

Leo: Kevin, you're going to love it, get the cream. I think for your, my suggestion if you're shaving your wrist is get the cream. I don't know why I like the cream. I think the reason they started offering the foaming shave gel is because the cream is really thick and people I think were saying, it clogs up my blades, but I use super hot water and it immediately dissolves it, you just run the head under the hot water, and then it's such a smooth shave. I did it today. I've never cut myself once.

Rene: It's like the hover craft for your face, Leo. I keep going back to that.

Leo: I love it!

Rene: It's amazing.

Leo: I love it! Okay, let us do our Picks of the Week. I think we're going to let you start, Kelly, if you're ready, if you've got one for us.

Kelly: Sure! Well my pick is going to be the app camp for Girls app.

Leo: Oh! Let's do it! So, tell us about App Camp for Girls!

Kelly: App camp for girls is a thing that Jean MacDonald started and-

Leo: We know her very well of course, she was for a long time at Smile software, and a good friend.

Kelly: And she's wonderful!

Leo: Love her.

Kelly: And she sat me down for lunch I think three years ago and said, I have this idea. And I said, awesome what can I do?! And she said, I didn't tell you my idea yet. And I said, it's your idea, that's all I need to know. So just tell me what you need. So she had a moment she went to WWDC.-

Leo: Oh, there you are Kelly, working with the girls. It's so cool!

Kelly: Yeah! So um, she had a moment at WWDC where she realized she was in a room that sat 5,000 people, and she could not see a woman from where she was sitting. And because what we do in Portland is go, well, I see a need, I'm going to go build that.

Leo: Let's fix it, yeah!

Kelly: She went and built it. So, she didn't go just sit down and write some sort of hand wringing piece about, How come there's no girls, and she didn't just sort of complain, she actually did something. So App Camp for Girls goes on for a week per session. So we do two sessions here in Portland. We do one usually in June and one in August.

Leo: It's also in Vancouver and in Seattle this year.

Kelly: Yeah, this year we have Vancouver and Seattle. There are still spots open in Seattle. And if you have a girl that's entering 8th or 9th grade this fall, then you're more than welcome to sign up and join us. If you want to volunteer, there are a lot of volunteer opportunities. You don't have to be female to help us out. Um, and the thing about it is that we spend a week and we show them how to build a basic app in x code. They get an iPod touch for the week. And the first day we build a calculator, a basic calculator app, and send them home with it. So they come into camp first thing Monday morning, we start sort of learning everybody's names, and by Monday night they have built an app and taken it home on the iPod touch to show their families.

Leo: Now, in most cases are these kids, they must be kind of geeky already, right? Or no?

Kelly: Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Sometimes we get people who would not have had any interest in iOS programming. Like, every so often there's somebody who says, I'm just here because my mom says I have to do a camp this summer.

Leo: That's so great. Ah.

Kelly: And then by the end of the week they are super pumped!

Leo: I'm going to cry, this is so good.

Kelly: And so they start with a template, and the template is a quiz. And so they have to decide what kind of quiz it's going to be. And it's a multiple choice thing. So they have five question, each question has four possible answers. And they have to determine what kind of quiz it is, what all the questions will be, what all the answers will be, and then what those answers result in. So, if you take “What Mythical creature are you?” Then each one of those answers has to go well, one of the results is big foot, and one of these results is a unicorn, and one of those results is a fairy princess, and one of those results is you know, another thing. And so they have to be able to route all of that to what the end result is ultimately going to be. So by the end of the week they have to present their finished app. It's finished on Thursday. And then they put together a presentation, and then they give a presentation to a wall of,  a panel of female investors. And they get up and they have a Keynote presentation. They walk through slides, they talk about their app, how their app is going to make money. Whether it's because they priced the app at a certain rate, or the app is free and they're going to have in app purchases, or every once in a while there is a team that says, what we're going to do is sell you an action figure or a t-shirt with your result on it. So if you got big foot, you could buy like a big foot dolly, you know, this was what I got on my quiz. So there's all different kinds of things like that, that they come up with for ways that their app will make money. And so with everybody's quiz, the icon, the artwork, all of that came from whatever team that was, because they work in a group of 4 for the week. So, with 15 quizzes in it, it's 99 cents and all of the proceeds from the app itself go right back into funding App Camp.

Leo: That is so great, I love this. Go and get it! It's for iOS App Camp. Quiz compendium by App Camp for Girls. We have a couple of cave men in the chat room that say, well what about boys? Believe me there is plenty of opportunities for boys. It's nice to have an opportunity for girls where they're not pushed aside by the boys. And I think this is the greatest thing ever.

Kelly: And that's what we hear from almost everybody that shows up is like, well I went to another technology camp, you know, some sort of computer camp or something, and all of the boys shouted over me. So not being insane, you know, trying the same thing and expecting a different result, I just shut up and I sat back and I let them do everything, and that's not a fun experience and so I'm excited to be here where I get to contribute because everyone is-

Leo: It's so great.

Kelly: -no one here is trying to jockey each other for position. They're just hanging out. And it's a lot of fun, it's a complete blast. It's so much fun to get to do this and to have that moment where somebody who maybe wasn't considering software as a career path looks at it and suddenly realizes that somebody has to draw all of the images that you see in the app that you use on your phone every day. Somebody had to come up with that, somebody had to come up with-

Leo: Yeah, it's not just coders!

Kelly: Yeah, somebody had to come up with an icon. When we give them the template for the quiz there's a bug in it, and it won't build initially, and so then they get to learn about bug testing and there's usually somebody who goes, this is great, I love getting to break stuff! And someone else, like there is someone who is always super pumped about x code, like this is so awesome, I love that when I type this thing it changes this thing over here and then when I build it on my touch it's really great. There's a step along the way where everyone gets an opportunity and there's a moment for each of them, whatever the team is, every time I've been there, on every team there's a moment when somebody goes, I just realized somebody has to draw all this stuff and I don't have to be just a coder. You know when people think about typing mysteries into a laptop, that's not, there's so much more to it than that. And so it's really exciting to give them that opportunity and expose them to it. And we don't expect that all of these girls are going to go on to be computer scientists, that's totally not it. But maybe we've exposed them to something that they think about a little differently now and demystifying some for that may cause some of them to, we've seen some of the girls to go on in high school, to be part of computer clubs and things. And I really think there's a huge place for it. There are probably some people who will go on from App Camp to something else and will do something technologically, like, long term, but there's also just the opportunity to sort of expose them to the other pieces of it because there is so much more to software development than just the person who hunches over a laptop and types mystery stuff into a black window with white text. Like there's a lot more than that. So I think it's awesome. So I'm really excited to be a part of it and I'm excited to tell anyone who will listen that the app is out and you should get it because it's a buck, and it's awesome. And it's fun to take some of the quizzes. Like, one of the quizzes became, what penguin are you, because one of the girls that was on that team really enjoyed drawing penguins. And so, she drew a little penguin wearing sneakers and just doodling while they were coming up with a quiz idea and that became the quiz.

Leo: App Camp for Girls is a non-profit, you can donate to them of course directly, but by buying this 99 cent app you're supporting them and I think thats, and you're having some fun. And I think it probably feels good for the kids, “Oh look people are buying our app! Our app is in the app store!” That's really neat. If you want a more diverse work place, if you want some opportunity in your work place, you've got to support this kind of stuff. There are plenty of places  boys can get this experience, plenty. But there are very few places, in fact this is the only one I know of where girls can do this without boys shouting over them. App Camp for Girls. And I love it that you're a counselor!

Kelly: It's so great, like I said, it's so much fun. I'm excited every year when it comes around again. Just like now as the weather is getting warmer and you know, as the sun comes out more it's like, it's getting to be time! I'm itching to get to go back and do more stuff. And it's a lot of fun and for me it's also a little bit selfish because I've been a techno person, I've always really liked computers all the way back to when my third grade teacher decided computers were going to be important and bought an Apple 2E. So, and I sat down in front of that and basically haven't gotten up since. And so I got really tired of being the only girl, and this is a way that I can help make that go away. So, for me it's also a little bit personal, like I'm really tired of it. And so it's really nice to have the opportunity to do something directly myself that helps fix that.

Leo: Nice job, thank you! And then you for being here Kelly Guimont. Guimont. Guimont.

Kelly: Guimont.

Leo: Guimont. Rene Ritchie, your app cap.

Rene: I'm first, I'm going to echo what Kelly said, it's an awesome, awesome thing that they are doing. If there's any way that anyone can support it, please do. And if you have trouble understanding why it's important, because a lot of people say it's not that important, whatever you have in your life, whether it's a culture or something, think about a time when you didn't like the way it was portrayed in a movie or TV show or something. Or you weren't allowed to do something just because of who you are and then try to develop some empathy based on that because this is beneficial to the future of technology for everybody getting more diversity and opinions and thoughts and ideas and community. It's just it's so meritorious, and Jean and Kelly just deserve tons and tons of praise and support.

Leo: Love Jean too.

Rene: Amazing, amazing cause. My picks are way more self-serving than this. There's a couple updates that I really like recently that added watch functionality and I found them especially useful on the watch. I did a whole piece the other day about traveling on the airplane with the watch, and paying for Starbucks and getting Uber and having my boarding pass on it. This weekend I went to the Avengers and my ticket was on my Apple watch. I went to dinner before with a reservation reminder on my Apple watch. Today I was waiting for this Apple Watch to come in for my sister, and I knew it was coming because the update for the Apple Store app is on the Watch and it notifies you when the thing is actually on the truck and in route, and I also use the deliveries app which is a phenomenal app that has been on the iPhone for a long time, it's available on the Mac now. And I just threw a gob of text because I had a hard time cutting and pasting the tracking code out of one of the emails into it, and it just identified the code and said, this looks like a UPS code, do you want to add it? And I said yes, yes I do deliveries, thank you so much, and it put it into their system and it's on my iPhone and it's on my Apple Watch, and yes they can always go to my iPhone but one of the things about the Apple Store app is for some reason, I don't know why, they have not yet implemented touch id on it, so I have to enter my pass code every time I want to look at my order like an animal. I know it's not a really big problem but it's inconvenient enough that it makes me not check it as much as I want. But with the Apple Watch, as long as I'm pined into my Apple watch and it's in skin contact, it'll just show me my last couple of orders and I can look at it anytime, get a quick update. You can set up all the glances for these things so it really is as simple as turning your wrist and tapping it a few times, and I knew, I had a rough idea when it was on the truck, when it was going to be here and it's one of those things that give me a light into the sort of convenience that we're going to get, maybe not immediately, maybe not for every app, but for the developers who've had time to work on it and really got a sense of how to best use this type of experience it has me incredibly hopeful because they, both of them just nail it. I can get information on my wrist in a couple of seconds, I get the notification as soon as, just in time. It's never wasting my time before it's ready, it's never too late, it arrives there sort of like Gandalf, I get it when I need it and I can't get over what it's like sort of living in this age of, it's a really different experience because notifications tell you information when you need to know it and the glances let you look for information when you want, they're persistent, they're not like ephemeral like the notifications and having both just means that I get what I want when I need it but also if I'm just curious or stressed or purseverating over something I can quickly look at it and know that it's done and relax about it and go along about my day. So, love these apps.

Leo: I'm going to get em! Cause I'm always wondering, where's my Apple watch?

Rene:    Deliveries is fantastic, I'm sure yours will be filled with ninety items in it Leo.

Leo: I use a program called Slice, it's similar it goes through my Gmail and does all that. But I'm going to try Deliveries, it looks good.

Rene: Great (unintelligible)

Kelly: Deliveries is glorious! Yes.

Leo: That's the one, huh?

Kelly: It's my favorite because it was the first to nail push notification for Deliveries. So it would just pop up on my phone and say it's on a truck, or whatever-

Leo: Yeah.

Kelly: And I really enjoy that, that and if I look at the email and copy the email, all I have to copy the tracking number out of the email. I can open deliveries and deliveries will say “It looks like  you have a tracking number on your clipboard”, and I'm like, this is me living in the future! Why yes, as a matter of fact I do. And it's at that one moment, every time I do that it's pleasing.

Leo: Actually, you know, Apple you can when you buy stuff from the Apple store you can set it to send you a text message, and they're very cheerful, you know. Good news! Your delivery is on the way! But they don't tell you what it is. So a couple of times we've been bit now. Lisa got bit, she ordered the new MacBook but she also ordered on my recommendation a dongle, a type c dongle. And she got the text message, Good news, your order is on it's way! She didn't learn as I have learned by bitter experience-

Rene: Always the dongle.

Kelly: Always the dongle.

Leo: She clicked, it's always the dongle. So the package arrives,  it's the dongle, and she-

Rene: Or the charger or whatever else like the case, whatever you don't..

Leo: So, click the link and go to the order to see what you're getting. Cause it isn't...

Rene: There's somebody at UPS just laughing, ha ha ha , they're getting a dongle and charger and cases today...

Leo: They're getting a dongle! Ah har har.

Rene: Take that geeks!

Leo: Andy Ihnatko, your pick of the week.

Andy: Uh, I have two picks. One a non tech peek but, pick that I kind of like a lot. This is a graphic novel, volume two of the collected Bandette by Colleen Coover and Paul Tobin. It is one of my, people often ask me, hey I don't read comics but I know that you are, what would you recommend? And this is just such a delightful book. The title character is a cat burglar in Paris that's sort of modeled after Audrey Hepburn in a really, really good like movie from, oops it's upside down, on Turner Classic movies that you really, really want to see. It's light hearted, there's action, adventure, there's humor. It's just such a pleasure just page after page after page. It's all ages friendly but it's not like, written down to kids, it's just literally a really great like rated PG adventure. And this is volume 2 that just came out like about a couple of weeks ago. I'm very, very pleased and proud that Paul and Coleen asked me to write a forward to it so you will see about 800 words from me that is by no means has any place next to Paul's words and Coleen's art. But despite that really, really very, very strong recommend volume 1 and volume 2, they're both excellent. But the other thing is tech related and it is, I've just discovered City Mapper which is the answer to all of my transit prayers. It is, if you haven't used it before, it has like transit for about 90 countries, 90 cities around the world. They pretty much seem to have everything that has a really deep transit system and so I've basically activated like the Boston zone of this and it works great because you spend maybe 10 or 15 or 20 minutes telling it how you use transit. Mostly saying, here is the stations I often use and travel to, here is where my work destination is usually, here is where my home is, and once you've gotten that set up when you're leaving the house, you just simply tap a button and it shows you, here's your next train to work and here's your next train after that. Or you're in the middle of a city, even if it's a foreign city and it will tell you, here are different transportation hubs near by. So if you're near South Station it will say, here is South Station, here is where it is on the map, here are the next 3 or 4 trains departing from South Station or, and you see this sort of deck of other buttons on the top here, if you find out that oh damn, the next train to where I need to go is actually 3 ½ hours away, okay what about the subway, or even is there a bike rental, a bike share or someplace nearby, is there a water taxi. And if not you can actually have a button and call a Uber and call a taxi from where you are. It really is the ultimate solution where you don't launch one of these apps because you have an academic interest in public transport because I am here right now, I need to be there as soon as possible, what are my options, you're a phone, you have GPS, you know where I am, you can access schedules, just tell me what's available to me from where I am right now. It's the, MBTA has their own app and it's like, so terrible that every time you launch it I'm always looking for the next train from the station that's near my house to down town. It's always the same thing, but every time I launch it it asks me, what line do you want to use? Do you want inbound or outbound? Do you want a weekday schedule or a weekend schedule? And every time as I'm tapping through this, I'm thinking, you know where I am, you know it's Saturday, and you know that I'm now 20 miles away from Boston so that I maybe want to get the inbound train.

Leo: Just guess!

Andy: Exactly. So this is the one that basically takes all of those guesses for you and just simply says-

Leo: I love City Map.

Andy: Yeah. So it's just, and also they have an Android version of it so you're not locked in and you can use a common sign in to get like all of your preferences if you're split between multiple devices. They have an Apple watch app that is so good that Apple actually uses it as an example in the design guidelines book for how to design for Apple watch. So it's a really muscular app, and it's one of those like real forehead slap sort of thing where I find out about it and I download it and I love it and I say I hope this was really just released two weeks ago because if this has been released for a year and I'm just now finding out about it, that doesn't speak to well of me. But in any event you're at least happy, even if I wasn't like on the ground floor of this, at least you know I now have it now because, again, it's like Kelly said, sometimes you just, you're surprised at how satisfied you are that an app works in exactly the most rational and useful way it can possibly act. Like hey, I'm an app that deals with tracking numbers, I see on the clipboard there seems to be something that looks like a tracking number, would you like me to do something useful with it for you? Because, it's not that hard to paste it in yourself but you like the app that you're programmed to be useful to me, you could be more useful right now. So, great stuff and it's like now it's on all of my devices.

Leo: Yay. Yeah I like it when programs are intelligent.

Kelly: That's awesome.

Andy: Yeah.

Kelly: Now Andy, is that for everywhere or is that for only certain cities?

Andy: It's only for certain cities, but it's for a lot of certain cities. I think there are 90 cities that are everywhere and it's not as though you have to download a special New York City version of the app. You launch it for the first time, you actually see like a carousel of the cities with cute little robot icons of, you know the Boston one is a person with a red sock on their foot, the Paris one maybe you get a beret and a striped t-shirt on the front, I don't know.

Leo: I used it in London.

Andy: Maybe it's culturally sensitive, I don't know. But it's great because not only is it going to be incredibly and deeply useful to you in your day to day life but then you find yourself in New York and you don't know when the next, I need to get to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, should I take the tax, should I grab a taxi, or should I take the subway, or should I do whatever. It will say, here are all of the options from where you are to where you tell me you want to go and it's so much better and so much more helpful that even Google Maps.

Kelly: Well, and like, there's an awesome TriMet app for like getting around here in Portland that is useless the rest of the time.

Leo: Yeah, yeah.

Kelly: So, that's why I was wondering  if this is, if this is like that or not, so..

Leo: It's complicated because, for a while there was this standard, and cities, because they are owned by the people, were giving away these maps and then they suddenly for some reason decided no, you know what, we ought to have our own map and we can make money, and they shut it down so it's really up to, they can, and Google does these transit directions too. They only work in places where the city isn't like saying, we copyright these maps and this transit information and you're not allowed to have it.

Andy: Boston's really good in that, not only do they let them have the maps but they also give them right access to not only schedule, but like delays and-

Leo: Yeah, where buses are right now and all. Yeah.

Andy: And you can't do much better than that. I only wish it were possible for me to buy electronic tickets through this app so I wouldn't use the MBTA app ever. But it's, it must be so very gratifying to be a developer when you know that, when you get a feedback from someone that says that, I hated the process of trying to find out when the next train was, and now I don't hate it anymore because I know that I have a friend and ally in the app that you had a hand in creating, thank you very much.

Leo: Um, we are almost out of time. I'm just going to mention very quickly that I shed a little tear when Four Square separated into two apps. Four Square became Yelp and they created a check in app called Swarm that had none of the fun of Four Square. But Four Square 3.0 is coming Mayors will be back, and they have released a new Swarm app today I think, that adds a lot of fun functionality. I think they realized that they pretty much killed the audience for Four Square when they took all the ga-

Kelly: Well, that's when I quit using it.

Leo: Yep, me too!

Rene: Me too.

Leo: Then if you have a watch-

Kelly: It's two things and it's all complicated and it's no fun anymore and it...

Leo: Yeah, it's no fun! So they got stickers now-

Kelly: Okay, bye!

Leo: -and they have an Apple watch interface so uh, you can go to the Apple watch interface and check in directly from it. So I'll check in right now at the Break House and it'll give you information about who's nearby. They have some nice features too they've added to Swarm. You can message everybody in your neighborhood and say, hey let's get a drink, anybody around? Come on! I really think that the Four Square listened and realize, or maybe they just noticed nobody was using it anymore.

Rene: It's just as annoying, it keeps wanting you to download Page Manager or Messenger or tell your friends to do this. Just leave me alone!

Leo: So the new Swarm is out, if you use a Watch you might want to use it for check-in. Once more I shall be Mayor of my hot tub. Hallelujah! Thank you so much! Thank you. I stole that from my book read. Thank you for the, our chat room writes all of my material. Thank you Kelly for being here. It's great to have you. @verso on Twitter and Instagram and everywhere. She's also at macobserver.com. First time on MacBreak and I think you held your own pretty darn well!

Kelly: Well, I was told that I needed to give everyone else a chance to talk, so, I hope I did that.

Leo: They told you that? Usually I do it the other way, I say..

Andy: Don't listen to that, just...

Leo: Usually I go the other way and say hey, you got to jump in because nobody’s going to give you the chance to talk.

Kelly: Oh yeah, that's usually what I'm good at.

Leo: You did a great job. Great job!

Andy: Incidentally Kelly, thank you for the App Camp for Girls pin you gave me two years ago. It finally, I've had it in my laptop bag ever since and I finally got a new one like two weeks ago at the Yosemite conference so now, because the pin is now so weak that it kept falling off. I'm like do I keep in on there and risk losing it or do I keep it on because I like having my App Camp for Girls badge on my bag.

Kelly: Let me tell you, if you have a problem with one I will be your lifetime warranty. Just let me know it fell off and you can't find it and I'll send you another.

Leo: She's got unlimited resources.

Andy: I'll buy a t-shirt too because on top of everything else, it's a great logo.

Rene: Yep.

Kelly: I love the logo, and let me tell you, this is the story of the logo because this is the really cool thing, and I'll be really fast. Jean MacDonald attended the World Domination Summit here it town. And at the World Domination Summit I think it was two years ago, they ended up in the budget they had extra money and so they gave everybody $100 and had them listen to the person who wrote the book “The $100 startup”. So Jean took her $100 and knew a graphic designer, and went to the graphic designer and said, “This is my idea, I'm trying to build something for App Camp. And I would like the logo and could I pay you $100 for the logo. I know it's not enough but would you be willing to do it for the opportunity to help App Camp become a reality by having this logo?” And so the owl that's on everything that's App Camp, was started with that $100 from the $100 Start Up at World Domination Summit. So I always think that's a great story.

Leo: You know, it would make an excellent Four Square sticker. Dens, Dens! It would make and excellent Four Square sticker, I'm just saying! Thank you Kelly. Thank you Rene Ritchie! Imore.com, always great to have you on!

Rene: Thanks Leo!

Leo: Anybody has tattoos, you might want to go read those articles. Actually anybody who has an Apple watch, a MacBook... iMore's, you're, for instance, I send everybody there who calls the radio to complain about Photos.

Rene: Thank you.

Leo: Because it's crazy messed up. And I just say, oh don't worry, you just go to iMore and read that, they have like 18 articles on photos. And they'll explain it all to you.

Rene: I think there are 62 now between Serenity and Ally.

Leo: And you know, man, so one of these days I want to just sit down with the three of you, we'll do a Photos in service, and you can explain what the hell's going on.

Rene: You're on!

Leo: I actually, I actually put on my blog, I said I've got to ask Rene Ritchie what is, what does this mean? Wait a minute, I've got to show you the image here, hold on a second. At Leoville.net. I got the weirdest thing from Photos. Please, Photos, not before my coffee! This library contains items that need to download from iCloud Photo Library. To download the complete library, delete the incomplete items, then set this library as the System Photo Library in Preferences and enable iCloud Photo Library. This will disable iCloud Photo Library on any other libraries. And then there's two buttons, both of which are terrifying. Delete incomplete items or Quit. So I said..

Rene: Yeah. You can only have one iCloud Photo Library which is called the System Library and if you ..

Leo: But I had never used it, I....

Kelly: Mhm.

Leo: Anyway, I say, make a note to ask Rene Ritchie what this means and what to do about it. So you're the man! You, Serenity, the gang. This is the place if you've got questions about Apple, imore.com.

Rene: Yeah. Thank you! Thank you very much.

Leo: And thanks for letting us borrow Georgia Dow on Sunday, she was really great. I loved having her.

Rene: She charts her own destiny, Leo, you know. She's awesome at that stuff.

Leo: And Andy Ihnatko, who charts more than his own destiny, he charts his way into our hearts.

Rene: Yeah.

Andy: Indeed, I navigate by the celestial markers of truth and clarity.

Leo: You can find him at the Chicago Sun Times, weekly here, and then there's Ihnatko's almanac, and Five by Five, and lots of other places. Thank you Andrew, thank you Rene, thank you Kelly, thank you for joining us. We do MacBreak Weekly Tuesdays at 11 AM Pacific, 2 PM eastern time, 1800UTC at live.twit.tv, and if you can't watch live we have on demand audio and video available for you after the fact. Just go to twit.tv/mbw or iTunes or wherever you get. You know I was just looking at stats and iTunes used to be like 90% of our downloads and now the Podcasts app on iPhone is the big guy, like 60 or 70%. It's really interesting how that usage has shifted, and rightly so because it's so much easier just to get it on your mobile device. We do have apps that make this very simple on all of the platforms including Roku, iPhone, Android and Windows phone are written by our great community of developers, not by us. We thank you for being here, now get back to work because you know what? Break time's over! Bye bye!